B2 Access denied from Windows 10 PC

[Robert MILLER]

Hello, I hope that someone has the answer. I have setup NAS on the B2 and it appears in file explorer but although I can see everything I cannot make any alterations. I am the administrator for my own pc. I attach the error message. Thanks in advance. Bob

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

did you enter a username and password for the Brennan when prompted ?

Paul from Brennan put together this guide on setting up NAS for Windows.

John

NAS mode using a Windows 10 computer:

On the B2:

• Make sure the B2 is connected to WiFi - displaying an IP Address - something like 192.168.1.127

• Using the front control go to the Maintenance menu and select Start NAS - the display will return to the clock and then show 'done' after a couple of seconds.

On your Win10 computer: 

This stage only required if the B2 doesn't show in 'View network computers and devices' (see the next stage)

• In the 'Type here to search' box type - Turn Windows features on and off (you don't have to type all of this as you will be prompted by the computer).

• Click on 'Turn Windows features on and off'

• Scroll down to 'SMB1.0/CIFS File sharing support' and expand the section - click on the '+' box

• Select the second item - SMB1.0/CIFS Client - it may already be selected so no need to select again

• Click on OK.

On the Win10 computer:

• In the 'Type here to search' box type View network computers and devices

• Click on 'View network computers and Devices'

• BRENNANB2 should be displayed on the 'computer' line - if not wait a while (it can take a while to show the first time) and try refreshing the 'View network....' page.

• Double click on BRENNANB2 - a pop up panel will open

• Enter user name = root

• Enter password = brennan and click on OK

• The B2's 'music' folder will be shown - double click to open it - this can take a while as the computer needs to load all of the files on the B2's HDD.

• Once loaded a list of Artist folders will be shown

• Double clicking on an Artist folder will show the Album folder/s associated with the Artist

• Double clicking any Album folder will show the Tracks and Album Artworks

You can then edit these folders and files as you would any folders/files on your computer e.g. create new folders, copy and paste, cut and paste, rename, delete, etc.

You can also copy music from your computer (iTunes, etc) to the B2 whilst in NAS mode - make sure you maintain the correct Artist - Album - Track folder format so the music is correctly displayed on the B2.

Please note - any changes you make on the computer are local to the computer and must be transferred to the B2 by running Scan Disk - Settings menu - on the B2. If you leave the computer session without running Scan Disk, any changes will be lost.

[Robert MILLER]

The Brennan only requests the username and password once but is there a way to get it to ask again so that I can be sure that that part is ok? 

[Robert MILLER]

Sorry, I seem to have lost my original reply to John. Yes, I had completed all of the steps that you set out. I am trying to add an Artist named folder containing its tracks. Simple enough I thought :)

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

when you open Windows file explorer right click on the Brennan drive. Choose delete and try again

John

[Robert MILLER]

Hello John, I don't get a delete option when I right-click on the drive.

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

was there a 'disconnect' ? if so try that... 

John

[Robert MILLER]

No.... attached is what I have

[JFBUK]

On the right you have BrennanB2.

Are you clicking on this or something else ?

[Robert MILLER]

No... I'm right-clicking on the BrennanB2 which then brings up the dialogue box shown on the left. When this box is shown it covers the network devices. The right is just showing what is underneath the dialogue box.

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

And when you double click on BrennanB2 Is when you  get the access denied message ?

Unfortunately I won’t be able to check on my PC until Friday now, . so hopefully someone else reading this thread can pick it up and help you resolve.

John

[Robert MILLER]

double-clicking on BrennanB2 brings the music folder to focus. Double-clicking on Music brings all the current Album folders to focus. When I try to add a new folder is when the message is triggered.

[Daniel Taylor]

When you right-click on either the music folder or any folder within, check the Properties to see if Read Only is checked.  If so, try to de-select it.

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks Daniel.... all are unchecked. please see attached

[PMB]

Hi Robertstep...,

I'm away from my desk today so cannot check my settings but I see you have a tick next to 'Special Permissions' in the Properties panel. Might be worth checking the settings for this.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[Robert MILLER]

Hi Paul, thanks for your response. I haven't consciously set any special permissions and when I inspect each user's permissions, the special permissions are selected but greyed out. Windows suggests that greyed out special permissions are those which are inherited. when I check this for each user inherited permissions are stated as none, so I don't understand why these are set or why they are greyed out. Please see the attachment. I do appreciate the group help with what seems more of a Windows setup issue than that of a Brennan one, so I hope this is not considered a waste of Brennan resources. I will continue to trawl Internet resources for a solution. Thanks thus far.

[Robert MILLER]

Just a thought ... maybe removing all the users and then adding them back in may reset these permissions but I am not confident and it may leave a worse situation of denying all access.

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

I have found how you can edit the credentials for your B2 in Windows.

1. Start Control Panel (search for control panel in the task bar search)

2. In Control Panel search for Credential Manager

3. In Credential Manager click on the Windows Credentials tab

4. You should see the BrennanB2 listed. Click the down arrow by it and it will give you an option to edit

5. Retype the password for root and save

This will at least eliminate a typo in the password as the cause

John

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks John, ... great work but all checks out ok. Still access denied :(

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi Robert

Just looked at this thread.

What I would do next is look at your Firewall, and Windows Defender settings (assuming you are not using a third party utility for this an if so investigate these). 

I think your problem is with Windows rather than the B2.

Fred

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks Fred, ... in the meantime, I have trawled around the router, firewall and anti-virus stuff to see what I can find but nothing immediately obvious, so I will continue and I will report progress soon, hopefully :). 

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

have you tried mapping your B2 HDD as a network drive  using its IP address ?

Right Click on 'Network' in File explorer and then 'Map Network drive'

You will get this dialog, check the different credentials tick box

When you enter a password, check the 'remember my credentials' tick box.

Why this would work and not the network discovery method I don't know but maybe worth a try

John

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks John, I have tried this with the attached result. The drive was not previously mapped so I don't understand why this message appears nor why the earlier properties stuff was ticked but greyed out. I don't know enough to go gung ho around in these areas, so I really appreciate this guidance. However, this is more obviously a Windows issue so I will understand if enough is enough with your and the forums' support. 

[Robert MILLER]

oops ...here's the attachment

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

Try the IP address of your B2 , e.g. 192.168.0.123 not 'BrennanB2' when you try the mapping

John

[Robert MILLER]

Hello John, ... I will research this new error message as attached in the meantime you may have some insight yourself.

[Robert MILLER]

doh! not again ! here's the attachment :)

[JFBUK]

Robert,

you need 

\\192.168.1.53\music

no http

John

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks John, yes that has now mapped and I have set root and brennan as the credentials. But most of the control is greyed-out. Should I have used my own credentials?

[JFBUK]

So when you expand the contents can you see your music folders ?

Have you tried creating a new folder ?

John

[Robert MILLER]

Yes I can see all of the music but the new folder icon is greyed-out

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Not sure if this helps but I think using this you could start again?

[Robert MILLER]

Hello Fred and thanks for your response. Yes, this has already been tried but without success. I have now tried three different PC's, albeit all Windows 10 OS, but get exactly the same error message. So I'm reasonably confident that it is not a local PC issue but must be that of a network or router. Whilst trawling for solutions, the enabling of SMB features that are needed for this implementation, seems to have a bad press from a security point of view but I guess we have to stick with it. Also, I have found that my network is now super fast after following others' internet suggestions to disable TCP/IPv6 on the network card Properties. But nothing is allowing me to solve the original problem :(

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

What was your original reason for enabling NAS and accessing from your PC ?

If it was to copy /edit files to/from/on your B2 then using some 3rd party software might be a way around your problem.

Either WinSCP or Bitvise would potentially do the job.

Btw can you still rip a CD successfully on your B2 or upload tracks using the WebUI

John

[Robert MILLER]

Hi John,

yes, as I have content other than CD e.g. Vinyl. I wanted to create FLAC files and move them into the B2 using Windows file manager. I primarily play Vinyl but the Brennan is just a great jukebox for parties! I will investigate the apps you have referenced. Yes, I can rip Cd's but the upload tracks seemed to complete ok on the WebUI but I could not find them when I searched the Brennan HDD.

[Mark Fishman]

I was going to stay out of this discussion, but now that you've investigated all the other suggestions I will recount what I had to do -- over a year ago, now, and I've never seen anyone else have this kind of problem until now. This will get somewhat technical, sorry.

The effective permissions on a network share provided to a Windows network from a Linux server are a combination of the Linux permissions and the permissions provided by the Samba server software. In the B2, the smb.conf file that controls the Samba permissions for the music share specified that write access should be given to any logged in account that is in the "users" group (I'm going from memory here, my B2 is turned off right now, so don't kill me if I get the details slightly askew, it's the principle that matters). When you connect to the B2 from a Windows computer, you have to log in, and the only account Brennan provides is the root account.

Unfortunately the root account is not in the "users" group; it's not an ordinary user account, it has privileges beyond those of mortal men. Superuser! It can change the course of mighty rivers, bend-- errr, sorry, got carried away. But because it's not in the users group, Samba gave the root account only read access to the music share, even though at the Linux level that directory was writable by everyone ("world").

I had to log in to my B2 as root, using a program that gave me an ssh connection (Bitvise would work, so does Putty, or the command-line text-mode ssh program that comes with Windows 10 Pro and any Mac), and add the root account to the users group (a secondary group membership; root has its own primary group also called root). After that I didn't have to change anything at the Windows end, where before I had only read access I now had write access as well.

As I said, I've not seen anyone else have to do this, neither before nor since I had to do it on my B2, but that's what fixed my problem, and yours sounds eerily similar...

-- Mark F.

[Robert MILLER]

Hello Mark, I'm pleased that you made this contribution as nothing I have tried has shone a light on my issue. I will try to follow your second last paragraph as I want to solve it somehow even though there are alternative music folder editing methods being proposed by the forum. Many thanks, Bob.

[Mark Fishman]

As used to be said, "Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!" (accompanied by waving of robotic arms)

Unless you are comfortable with Linux systems innards, do not try this sort of thing without at least a backup of your SD card on hand. Changing things associated with the root account -- especially as it's the only privileged account on the system -- could make it impossible to log in, or even for the system to boot (depending on what you change).

That said, you want to look at two files, and you will need to use a command-line text editor to change one of them. The Linux in the B2 is relatively stripped down, so some of the commands usually used will be missing; you'll make the changes manually. There is no graphical interface! 

Look at /etc/samba/smb.conf. Mine contains:

[music]
comment = shared folder
path = /media/hdd1/music
valid users - @users
force group = users
create mask = 0660
directory mask = 0771
read only = no

Notice that the share [music] says "valid users - @users" (others here, and my previous experience, have indicated that it should have an '=' not a '-', but that's how mine came and I'm not changing it). The key, though, is the creation mask for files, 0660, which translates to Unix file modes (permissions) of rw-rw----, in other words "owner" and "group" have read/write and no one else has any permission at all. "Force group = users" means the files are created with "users" as the group, so you need to add a secondary group membership for the root account.

Look at /etc/group. Mine contains:

root:x:0:
daemon:x:1:
bin:x:2:
sys:x:3:
adm:x:4:
tty:x:5:
disk:x:6:
lp:x:7:
mail:x:8:
kmem:x:9:
wheel:x:10:root
cdrom:x:11:
dialout:x:18:
floppy:x:19:
video:x:28:
audio:x:29:
tape:x:32:
www-data:x:33:
utmp:x:43:
plugdev:x:46:
staff:x:50:
lock:x:54:
netdev:x:82:
ftp:x:83
nogroup:x:99:
users:x:100:root
sshd:x:1001:
dbus:x:1000:dbus

The root account has its own primary group (also called root). The root account is also a member of the wheel group, so the username "root" appears after the 3rd ':' on the line starting with the word "wheel". I have added "root" to the line starting with "users" in similar fashion (it was not there when I started). MAKE NO OTHER CHANGES!!! I cannot stress that enough. Make sure you exit from your text editor, saving the change.

At this point you will want to reboot. The easiest way to do this is to type "reboot" on the command line, which will reboot the B2 and also close your ssh session. Or you can exit the ssh session, go over top the B2, and find the Reboot item under the Maintenance menu on the front panel (for obvious reasons this isn't available in the web interface...). There is no need to cycle the power.

Then see if you can reconnect to the network share and make file/directory changes from Windows.

I repeat: IF YOU ARE AT ALL UNCOMFORTABLE doing this sort of thing, DO NOT TRY IT!

[Robert MILLER]

thanks again,  Having tried and failed to even download and licence key Putty to run, I'm going to pass on this. I'm a retired radio communications hardware engineer and familiar with calculus and its 'flute music' but this is 'one step beyond' so I shall explore alternatives. The UPLOAD looks like a favourite but that has failed twice now at the same place in the upload. I suspect it is a folder size issue so I will segment it and try again.:)

[Mark Fishman]

Putty is free. There should not be a license key. The developer's download page is at https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/latest.html

The developer does say that at some time in the past one of the commercial DNS resolvers had trouble getting to his web site's srvers, so if you are having problems that could be the cause.

[JFBUK]

Hi  Robert,

if you have installed WinSCP or Bitvise then both will allow you to start a SSH Terminal (Putty like) session from within their GUI.

Mark's fix for his access adds to the intrigue of this problem

My group file looks like this

I have not edited it (so no change to the Users group)  and yet I can map my B2 hard drive and see it a a resource (BRENNANB2) in my network view in Windows File Explorer on a Windows PC.

I have tested that I have write access by copying a folder containing music to the B2 as NAS and running a scan disk. All Ok

If you do run a Putty session I'd be interested in the results of this command

cat /proc/mounts

if /media/hdd1 is not showing as mounted rw it might explain things

John

[Dirk Sostman]

If you have access to a Mac, they all have a built in Terminal utility that can do SSH connections.

[Mark Fishman]

Windows 10 Pro seems to include OpenSSH, which has a command-line ssh executable. I didn't have to do anything special to install it, it's just there, under C:\Windows\system32. So there are lots of choices. Putty is available for everything, though, so no harm in people suggesting it.

[Robert MILLER]

Hi all, my group file is attached. I have Putty on a little but got the attached error message.

[Robert MILLER]

Hold on ... I spotted my syntax error ... result is attached...

[Mark Fishman]

OK, well apparently "cat /proc/mounts" is the same as using the mount command with no arguments (it returns a list of mounted drives in that format). So we can see that your hard drive is mounted read-only (that's the "ro" on the next to last line in your screenshot). Do you get any error messages on the B2 itself when trying to add or change files, e.g., HDD Read Only? That's what I'd expect given your results.

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

It looks to me like your B2 hard drive is mounted read only which would explain why you are having problems.

I need to defer to those with greater Linux knowledge to confirm the diagnosis.

The HDD goes into read only mode if it detects disk errors

Do you have an up to date backup of your HDD ?

If not, first priority is to make one.

You may need to reformat your HDD in order to solve the issue

John

[Robert MILLER]

Yes, I do have a backup of all my music. However, following the use of these tools/apps a warning ' HDD is read only' message had appeared on the scrolling messaging on the B2. I have never seen this message before. I rebooted the B2 and the message was not present and the file explorer was now able to edit the music folder. I find this most unsatisfactory to report this as it does not explain the original behaviour and if I had not witnessed this myself I would be sceptical too. I attach the new cat /proc/mounts report following the reboot.

[Robert MILLER]

OK .... I'm really not understanding this. I rebooted my PC, then I tried to edit the music folder and was denied access once again. I decided to run the Putty and the cat /proc/mounts command. Once again  I read the HDD being ro. I rebooted the B2 and lo and behold I could edit the music folder again on the PC. At no stage in this exercise did the warning 'HDD is read-only' appear on the B2 display. I am happy to have this witnessed using  sharing programs such as AnyDesk 

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Looks to me that you have a problem with your B2's HDD, either a data corruption or a hardware issue - probably the former.

Use the B2 "Export to USB A or C " to make a clean backup of your music. Then reformat the HDD and afterwards "Import" your backup. This should clear the problem.

Note there are things you have to switch off before the format will work or you could boot from the SD Card without mounting the HDD and use Linux commands to deal with the format proces.

Fred.

[PMB]

Hi robertstep...,

I think your hard drive has probably been in 'Read Only' mode for longer than you thought, which prevented you making any changes to it's contents. The B2 goes into 'HHD Read Only' mode when it encounters something it cannot handle - usually a corrupt file, which may be the result of a bad rip or an unexpected power off, when it was busy - and makes the HDD read only to protect it's contents - your music.

As you have found, powering off and on again clears the message but it may reappear if the B2 comes across the corrupt file again.

If it does happen, the collective advice is to format the hard drive (erase everything off it) and load your backup. If this is needed I do have some instructions, written by Peter Lowham, for doing a successful format.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[Robert MILLER]

ok, thanks all... I will go for a reformat... please send Peter's instructions ...for comfort :)

[JFBUK]

Hi Robert,

Here are the format instructions, from Peter Lowham, for reformatting the internal hard drive but the first step is to confirm you have a good backup.

I would test this by plugging your back up drive (if that is what you have used) into your PC and checking that you can see all the music folders you expect to see and maybe even test  some tracks by playing back on your PC.

Once the format is complete you can import from your drive again as per Fred's post

John

There is a situation where the B2 sometimes will not format directly.  I have found that the following process has worked for me.

1.  From the front panel, select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Stop NAS'

2.  Select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Use SD'

3.  Power the B2 down, wait 30 seconds and power up.  (This step is important)

4.  Select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Advanced' --> 'Format HDD'

5.  When the format has completed select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Use HDD'

6.  Select 'Settings' --> 'Maintenance' --> 'Start NAS'

Then your B2 will be ready to do the 'Import', all being well.

[Robert MILLER]

Hello again, is the EXPORT command the same as cut/copy paste? Or is it encrypted insome way. Is it therefore better to IMPORT  or Use windows file manager to patse the music into the B2? My back-up was made by cutting and pasting into my file server. Thanks

[Mark Fishman]

Your question can be interpreted at least two ways. Is Export the same as a copy and paste (or drag and drop) operation over the network? Obviously the manner of operation is different, and Export requires a FAT32-formatted disk connected to a B2 USB jack. Should they produce the same result? Yes, if you have copied the folder structure from the top ("music") and there were no network transmissions errors in the one case, and if the Export operation ran to completion when copying files to a USB-attached disk in the other case.

There is no encryption applied to an Export set. You could connect the disk used for an Export to a USB jack on your computer and see or play all the files.

Copying a file, however you do it, unfortunately does not guarantee that all the source bits, and only the source bits, are copied in the correct order into the destination. Windows, for example, does very little verification on a copy, although it will check that the file sizes are the same. (Backup administrators of all kinds of systems have complained about the need for additional verification for decades.) It is entirely possible for a copy operation to appear to complete correctly, and then (often days later) discover that the one file you absolutely needed to restore is corrupted. The truth is that users do not care about backups: they care only about restores.

If your music files are FLAC files -- not WAV, not MP3, not anything else -- you can run a validation check on them using the flac.exe program (yes, it's a command-line program) because the FLAC format includes a checksum on the audio data. If the audio has not been changed, the file will pass the validation test. You can change the filename, you can edit the metadata tags, as long as you don't change the audio in a FLAC file it will validate.

I'm pretty sure I've written more than you wanted to know, but I hope it's helpful.

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks for your very full reply Mark. I asked the question as, when viewing the B2 music folder on a PC, one can add, rename and delete music. I took a copy of the PC Music folder and In preparation for a B2 HDD format, I decided to use this copy and this moment to clear up some anomalies where music had been put in the Unknown Folder. The result is a lot of changes to the original music folder copy. So I wanted to be sure that pasting/dragging and dropping this edited copy back into the formatted B2 would not give me more problems. My music is all FLAC and in some cases, FLAC files were created from music manipulation in audacity prior to exporting from audacity to the PC BRENNANB2\music folder. Is the process therefore best for me to run flac.exe on this music folder. Also, unless I have misinterpreted you making changes to the B2\misic folder on a PC is somewhat risky.

[Mark Fishman]

An Import from a disk attached directly to a B2 USB jack will update the B2's "b2db" file, wich is necessary for the B2 software to use the music. Copying over the network will not do that, so you will absolutely need to run the B2's Scan Disk after copying the files.

Modifying a file over the network is no more dangerous if the server is a B2 than if the server is anything else -- as long as (a) you have a solid network connection, and (b) you understand that the B2 is seriously underpowered so it should NEVER do more than one thing at a time. No playing, scanning, im- or exporting, while you are editing. Close the web UI so that doesn't need to be refreshed. And so on.

Here's an interesting article that I just ran across: https://absolutelybaching.com/music-articles/checking-your-flacs/

The basic flac -t [filename] can be scripted to run through all the files in a directory, and I know there are articles on the web about doing that.

[Robert MILLER]

So my process after formatting the B2 and preparing my new MUSIC folder could be to 1) drag and drop the music folder onto the B2\MUSIC folder, 2) run the B2 SCAN DISK. Noted the caution of the multi-threading limitations of the B2. Yes, very interesting article. I never thought of FLAC file degradation! Not sure how to incorporate a regime utilising this.

[Mark Fishman]

I think you have a good outline for what you need to do. I would not worry too much (at least not right now) about flac degradation. The problem, if it were to occur, would be a symptom of some larger hardware or software failure. Disks fail; software has bugs. (or malware.) You need to have backups, and some way to figure out if they're good, that's all, but that's a general problem with computers. My email signature block currently says, "RAID is not backup. Backup is not archiving. Anything that exists in only one place doesn't really exist." (Years of working with tech has given me a modicum of healthy paranoia.)

Cheers -- m.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Robert,

In preparation for the rebuild process could you provide a couple of elements of information that will help to make the process run more smoothly?

1.  What version of software is your B2 running on (shown in the WebUI 'Settings & Status' window)?  

2.  Can you copy the B2's music collection stats shown in the WebUI 'Settings & Status' window (count of the music file types and total disk space used, etc.)?

3.  Does the B2 use a wired or wireless connection to your router?

From these data, I can provide you with an estimated time to copy/restore the music collection back to the B2 once your HDD is reformatted.

I think that your B2's software version may be out of date as there is a line in the 'cat /proc/mounts' which reads

/dev/root / ext4  rw,relatime,date=ordered 0 0

This was changed about a year ago to:

/dev/root / ext4 rw,noatime 0 0

This greatly reduces 'wear and tear' on the SDcard and improves the running of the B2.

Regards,

Peter.

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks for your information Peter, I had already begun the process and felt that I was committed to my update plan. I updated to the latest software once the format was complete. My B2 is of a hard drive vintage. I can report that the behaviour of the B2  and editing through the 'NAS enable' and windows file explorer manipulation is now looking good. In my stored MUSIC folder, I cleaned up editing prior to copying that to the B2\MUSIC folder I deliberately left some edits outstanding so that I could test some new corrections. These have all worked as one would expect.

My new problem is that all of the FLAC music that I recently created/edited in Audacity and added during the copy to the new B2\MUSIC, skips and stutters whereas all other FLACs created from CD's are fine. This new issue probably needs to be moved to a new Conversation.

Thanks for all forum contributions. Bob

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Bob,

The stuttering that you are experiencing with your created FLAC tracks could be caused if the FLAC tracks are being created at too high resolution.  The B2 creates and plays tracks at 16 bit/ 44.1 KHz.  If you have 192 KHz/ 24bit or 96KHz/ 24bit files  you can use dBpoweramp to convert them down to 44.1KHz/16 bit.

Regards,

Peter.

[Robert MILLER]

Thanks Peter, I had not realised that the B2 could not cope with higher FLAC specs. My project is at an early stage to convert selected Vinyl to the B2 so it was easy to convert my higher spec'd FLACs to 44.1KHz/16 bit within the Audacity package. All is now progressing very well so a very interesting but frustrating few weeks have turned out good. 

Once again thanks to all for superb support and contributions. Bob

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Bob,

Thanks very much for the feedback; it helps the forum to know when a proposed solution works.

Regards,

Peter.