New hard drive for JB7

[Alan Stewart]

Apologies if this has been asked before. I cannot seem to find an answer in any of the previous postings so here goes.

The hard disk (160GB IDE) in my JB7 started to make some noise and I thought it prudent to replace it. I have a backup on a USB drive so I decided to purchase a brand new 320GB IDE drive. I formatted it to FAT32 and fitted it inside my JB7. I inserted my USB backup drive and selected restore music. It then just sits there and does nothing. None of the buttons/knobs then work on the unit and the only way to get it back is to switch it off and on again. I can play the songs from the USB so I know the backup is ok. Going into the Disk Stats it states that there is 0GB free, which makes me thing that simply formatting the disk to FAT32 is not the answer.

So my question:  Is there some sort of special process required to make a brand new hard disk usable in the JB7?

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks, Alan.

[Mark Fishman]

A JB7 hard disk holds BOTH the JB7 operating software AND your music files. Apparently the JB7 drive also uses a proprietary disk format that has never been described any other way (or if it has been I can't find where). Your external backup drive needs to be FAT32, but the internal drive might not be as it has been described as a proprietary format.

In any case, you would also need to install the operating system software, which is not supplied to the user in an "installable" format.

There is a contracted repair outfit that could replace the disk for you, for a cost, of course.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi All,

@Mark; the JB7 hard disk only holds the music folders.  The O/S is held in flash RAM of some type.  I removed the HDD from my JB7 and powered it up and it still did boot up although it did complain about the lack of HDD.  So the JB7 is very similar in structure to the B2.

@Alan; the format of the HDD is proprietary.  I wanted to have a complete replacement disk in case of a failure and went down the same path as you did, with the same result.  I got around this by doing the following which has worked successfully for me.  Basically the exercise is to do an exact sector by sector clone of the JB7 disk to the new disk.

1.  Purchased 2 x SATA to USB cable adapters ((about £5 each).

2.  Downloaded 'EaseUS Disk Copy Pro' (annual licence $29.90 per year) and installed it on my PC laptop.

3.  Removed the HDD from the JB7.

4.  Connected the JB7 HDD to the SATA to USB device and plugged it into my PC.  (This is the 'Source' disk)

5.  Connected the new HDD to the SATA to USB device and plugged it into my PC (This is the 'Target' disk)

6.  Started up 'EaseUS Disk Copy' and selected 'Disk Mode' and ticked the 'Sector by sector copy' (this setting is vital).

7.  Selected the JB7 HDD as the 'source' disk.

8.  Selected the new disk as the 'target' disk.

9. Then started the disk to disk copy.

I think that it ran for about 3 - 4 hours (on a 320GB HDD). The only disadvantage is that the target is an exact clone of the source, so the target will be seen as 160GB in your case.  I have a thought that the 'Map Disk' function might recover the additional space but I have not tried that yet, so I cannot say that with any level of confidence.  

Regards,

Peter.

[Mark Fishman]

Peter,

at https://groups.google.com/g/brennanb2/c/o2J_1Rv3JDw/m/Y7YiuZ_OCwAJ Paul (Brennan Support) wrote:

"The JB7 HDD has the operating software on it so it isn't just a case of formatting."

That's why I wrote that the JB7 disk contains more than just the music.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Mark,

There is some level of misunderstanding on this subject.  However, I can state that the JB7 will boot up correctly and display its menus without the hard disk installed.  I found this out by accident when I purchased a faulty JB7 a few months ago (advertised with the CD drive did not working) for testing purposes.  At first I had no intention of fixing the CD drive, but after a couple of weeks I liked the JB7 so much that I decided to repair it.

So I purchased a CD drive from eBay and installed it.  The JB7 booted up but the music files seemed to have disappeared and the replacement CD did not work at all.  After some examination I realised that the replacement CD drive was killing the SATA bus lines.  On checking the CD drive, it was a slightly different model from the one advertised (but it was plug compatible), so I sent it back and got a refund.

Then I got the exact cd drive model from another source.  This time the JB7 booted up, the music collection was all there and the CD drive worked correctly.

I opened up the JB7 today and disconnected the HDD.  I have attached some photgraphs of the JB7 running without the HDD.

SS1 - the HDD is physically disconnected.

SS2 - the JB7 has booted up without the HDD and is showing 0 music files.

SS3 - showing menu selection without the HDD.

SS4 - another menu selection without the HDD.

SS5 - the JB7 with the HDD reconnected, showing the music files now present in the display.

So the JB7 runs without the HDD connected.

Regards,

Peter.

[Mark Fishman]

Peter, as you have a JB7 and I don't, I have to defer to your experiments, over Paul's seemingly clear statement (quoted earlier). As Richard Feynman said, when an experimenta; result contradicts a theoretical prediction, the theory is wrong, period."

Are you willing to go one step further and see if Linux fdisk can identify the partition's type and filesystem? I have always found it hard to believe that Martin would invent and write code for a completely unique disk format, when there are so many already in existence with open-source software support. Perhaps the JB7 disk format is something non-Microsoft-like but for which support tools already exist?

Thanks for your testing and explanations -- m.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Mark,

I'll have a look at the HDD with fdisk and will report back.  I did have a look at the disk through Acronis Disk Director a while ago and it did not recognise the format.

Regards,

Peter.

[PMB]

Hi Mark,

That was what I was lead to believe but now know better - thanks Peter L. Be interested to know what Peter finds.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[Alan Stewart]

Thank you everyone for your comments.

I can confirm that my JB7 boots fine without the hard drive. I can play songs from my backup USB drive. I did try a wee experiment with loading a CD just to ascertain if the album database would recognise it but it would not which confirms that the database must be stored on the HD with the music. I did however notice that when the unit goes to standby, none of the buttons work and it has to be restarted, so somehow it needs the HD connected to come out of standby.

I can also confirm that when I connect the existing drive to my Windows 10 PC,  Windows does NOT recognise the format and indeed wants to reinitialise the disk.  I can also confirm that it is not readable on a Mac. I do not have a Linux machine to test but it looks like Peter does so I will wait and see what is reported back. I did attempt to clone using both Acronis and my Pro version of Macrium Reflect but none of those would allow the clone as the Brennan HD will not allow selection due to being an unrecognised format. However the demo version of EaseUS does indeed 'see' the disk, but the demo version will not allow the sector by sector copy.

I can purchase a 480GB SSD for £37. Audiotech want £72 for their preformatted ones so I guess there must be some work involved, right?  I see they also charge £45 for a replacement power adapter??

Also, my JB7 has an IDE connector so I would need some sort of IDE to SATA converter to use an SSD. I see you have one fitted in your pictures, Peter.

So either I go with purchasing EaseUS Disk Copy Pro for £22 plus the cost of the 320GB PATA hard disk at £30 and adapters to connect both drives to my PC at £5 each, so total outlay of £62 (and I would lose 160GB of space on the disk), or go for a 480GB SSD from Audiotech plus an IDE to SATA adapter to convert the SSD back to IDE so it can connect to the JB7 for £5, so total outlay £77. 

Better then going for the SSD albeit I doubt there will be an increase in disk read speed due to limitations of the hardware, it will just be more reliable than a mechanical hard disk. In saying that, the disk in my JB7 has been in there since new so it's done pretty well.

It's just a shame that we cannot simply fit a new hard drive, an easy job, only to find we cannot use it due to formatting that stops us from doing so and we then have to pay inflated prices for a disk that has been preformatted, which I guess would take just a few minutes to complete. I will contact AudioTech and ask them if they would be willing to format my SSD if I send them one.

Thanks again,

Alan.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Alan,

Below is an eBay link to a 160GB PATA drive advertised as new at £14 including P&P.  This would simplify your repair and also wiill keep the cost down!

Samsung 160GB 160 GB HM160HC 5400rpm IDE PATA 2.5" HDD For Laptop Hard Drive

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191688992291?epid=127333714&hash=item2ca18de623:g:aE8AAOSw0JpV6Ygl

The disk interface on the JB7 is 44 pin IDE (per laptop spec) and not the 40 pin version (per the PC spec).  You would also need a short 44 pin extender cable if you wish to change to SATA.

@Mark; below is the fdisk report of the JB7 formatted 320GB hard disk running on GNU/Linux.  As you can see fdisk only shows the device; there is no further report of a partition, so it looks like the JB7 just uses the raw disk.

pi@raspi4:~ $ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdb

Disk /dev/sdb: 298.1 GiB, 320072933376 bytes, 625142448 sectors

Disk model: Super Speed

Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes

Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes

I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes

pi@raspi4:~ $ 

Regards,

Peter.

[Mark Fishman]

(a) the 44 pin connector includes the power pins. To use a 2.5" IDE drive with an interface intended for a 3.5" drive (a "desktop" interface), the necessary adapter connects to the 40--pin cable plus the molex power cable on one side and to the 44-pin cable (or directly to the drive) on the other side.

(b) if there's no partition table, and the JB7 uses the raw drive (aside: as if it were a giant floppy disk), there must be some info (probably) located in the first sector that indicates the size of the drive. JB7s were available with several different disk sizes, so they had to have some way of saying how big they were.

Thanks, Peter -- m.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Mark,

I've done a bit of investigation with a disk sector editor and have found what looks like the disk size block.  I've done some reverse engineering and starting with looking at the last physical sector of my 320GB disk, this is 625,142,447(d) which is 2542EAAF(h)

Sector 0 is filled with zeros so nothing there of interest.  However In sector 1 (the second sector) there is a four byte block from 0028 - 002B(h) which reads 42 25 B0 EA

Reading this in reverse notation, this is 2542EAB0 which looks like the the last sector + 1 (possibly due to the difference of 'Absolute sector 1' vs 'Cylinder 0, Head 0, Sector 2' for the second sector).

Regards,

Peter.