NAS Windows 10 Fix

[Rob Lawes]

No NAS No Problem..

Just follow the instructions.

On your windows 10 computer

Open Control Panel. (cant find it, just type "control panel" into the search on the task bar)
Click on Programs.
Click on Turn Windows features on or off link.
Expand the SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support option. (by cicking on it)
Check the SMB 1.0/CIFS Client option.
Click the OK button.
Click the Restart now button.

Bingo!

[Rob Lawes]

I will just add to this..

So this info is direct from microsoft. Not hear say, gossip or from your Mothers Brothers Uncle.

A new install of windows 10 has SMB 1.0 ENABLED! out of the box.

Windows will uninstall SMB 1.0 after 15 days if you dont use the SMB 1.0 Nas feature. This could explain why some people had NAS access and now dont.

Once you re install SMB 1.0/CIFS Client by the instructions in the first post, windows will not uninstall it again..

As part of microsofts fix for the security issue they patched the SMB 1.0 server software. they also split the software into 2 parts server and client. Giving the abiity to just turn on

the SMB 1.0 client which is what is needed to access the NAS for some people...And just to make it clear the security issue was with the server part of the software (which we dont need anyway)

And yes i know you shouldn't need to do this... but i coudn't connect on win10 either and this is the only solution that worked.

So go fill ya boots and give it a try. The world wont end!

[David LE]

Rob Lawes.  You are a complete star and I am exceedingly grateful to you.  Bravo!

[David Tellett]

Rob L, you have saved my ailing brain! All now working!
Thank you 🙏

[Rob Lawes]

Thanks David & David.Happy it worked for you both.

[PMB]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the very useful info, especially the concerns around using SMB1.0.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[Chris A]

Hi Rob

Whilst I had NAS working for my B2 and BB1 via a workaround, I thought I give your method a try. It really works! Thanks.

Regards

Chris.

[Leslie Brownlee]

Hi Rob. Thanks for the clarification info on the SMB 1.0 topic relating to security risks in Windows 10.

When I first tried to set up NAS over 2 years ago following the Brennan website method, it didn't work for me and I gave up. Later I came across a post by Jon Scargill with a similar problem, with Spike Haward providing a solution of mapping the drive. This worked and I have used this method ever since without any hic-ups. This method assigned the selected drive for the B2 (I selected Z:) to "This PC" as a "Network Location" and not in the Network folder. This was not a problem for me and works for what I want to do.

However, I know this method has not worked for everyone. 

More recently some forum members have suggested the SMB 1.0 File Sharing route (as you have also) by activating it in Windows features in Settings and have found it to work. When I read this I was curious to see if the SMB 1.0 was activated with me using the mapped drive route. It wasn't, but as I said, it works this way for what I want to use it for. I also worried about any security risk as others had mentioned and was relieved that the SMB 1.0 was not activated. However, you have addressed this issue. Some have said this mapped method won't allow SONOS to communicate properly with the B2. Not a problem for me as I don't use SONOS, but if that is so, you clarifying the SMB 1.0 security issue may give some forum members more confidence to go this route. 

As my set up works fine for what I want to do, I don't think I'll change it, but it is handy to know there is another route to go for NAS if this one should ever fail. 

Are there any advantages in the SMB 1.0 route over the mapped drive route, other than maybe SONOS communication?

Regards.

Leslie

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Guys,

I have posted about this elsewhere due to the number of people who were suffering from this problem.

With regard to the 'mapped drive' option (e.g. "Z:\\BrennanB2\Music") this will work well for most situations where only your PC needs to talk to the Brennan device(s). The drive reference of "Z:\........) is only known to that PC, and is not understood by any other device in your local network. This is not 'NAS' access (i.e. the PC is not using NAS in this situation to talk to the Brennans. Other PCs and network devices will not see the Brennan in your local network.

Products such as Sonos require NAS access, where it needs an external network reference to 'know' where the Brennan is on the network. Each devices that has SMB1.0 enabled is visible on your local network to any other that uses SMB1.0. Sonos needs this NAS access which will be in the format of '\\BrennanB2\Music".  If you go to the Sonos website you will see the statement "Sonos requires SMB1.0"

M/Soft disabled SMB1.0 in the second (I think) major upgrade of Win10 in mid 2019, largely due to the huge problems of the 'WannaCry' virus which had many bad effects on businesses and organisations which weren't keeping their AnitViruses and Windows O/S upgrades up to date.  Windows XP was particularly prone to WannaCry attack but XP had been desupported for some time when WannaCry hit the networks. However XP was still in extensive use at that time and disrupted big organisations such as NHS.

I have enabled SMB1.0 on my Win 7 and Win10 PCs and servers, but I keep my Antivirus and Windows O/S patches up to date.

Regards,

Peter.

[Mark Fishman]

> With regard to the 'mapped drive' option (e.g. "Z:\\BrennanB2\Music") this will work well for most situations where only your PC needs to talk to the Brennan device(s).

Since it's your PC that is calling the shared directory by a drive letter, only the PC knows what drive letter you are using. That is correct. However, it is irrelevant if other devices need to see the share, since it is being shared by something other than the PC, i.e., the B2 (or BB1) is doing the sharing; the PC is just one of any possible devices that look at it. Other devices should use their own methods to see the Brennan folders. Those other devices don't need to see what your PC is doing. You don't even need to have a PC.

> The drive reference of "Z:\........) is only known to that PC, and is not understood by any other device in your local network.

Yes. But sionce those other devices aren't looking to your PC, and the PC isn't "re-sharing" the Brennan folders, this is irrelevant.

>This is not 'NAS' access (i.e. the PC is not using NAS in this situation to talk to the Brennans. Other PCs and network devices will not see the Brennan in your local network

No. NAS simply means Network Attached Storage. The Brennan device is attached to your network, it has a drive, and it shares (out) a directory on its drive. The Brennan IS NAS.

What protocols are used by clients to see or use the NAS depends purely on what protocols are understood bythe NAS device. The Brennan uses Samba, a 3rd-party implementation of Microsoft's SMB ["Server Message Block"] protocol suite (a.k.a. CIFS, "Common Internet File System"). When your PC connect to the Brennan shared directory by mapping a drive in Windows, it is also using SMB, and it sees the Brennan as a NAS device.

Whether other devices on your network, e.g., a Sonos system, can see the Brennan as NAS has NOTHING to do with whether you even HAVE a PC, or whether your PC runs Microsoft WIndows, or has SMB version 1 enabled. The other devices don't look at the PC, they look at the Brennan directly.

If a Sonos system requires SMB 1.0, then it is the Brennan device that has to support SMB 1.0. You don't need a PC at all. If you have one, it can see the Brennan device (by mapping a drive letter) using SMB 2 or 3, which the Brennan device ALSO supports.

The one thing that you lose by not having SMB 1 enabled on the PC is the ability to "browse" the network for a named device. It's there whether you can browse for it or not.

Please read https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/file-server/troubleshoot/smbv1-not-installed-by-default-in-windows

At that page you will see:

The Computer Browser service relies on the SMBv1 protocol to populate the Windows Explorer Network node (also known as "Network Neighborhood"). This legacy protocol is long deprecated, doesn't route, and has limited security. Because the service cannot function without SMBv1, it is removed at the same time.

However, if you still have to use the Explorer Network in home and small business workgroup environments to locate Windows-based computers, you can follow these steps on your Windows-based computers that no longer use SMBv1:

1. Start the "Function Discovery Provider Host" and "Function Discovery Resource Publication" services, and then set them to Automatic (Delayed Start).

2. When you open Explorer Network, enable network discovery when you are prompted.

All Windows devices within that subnet that have these settings will now appear in Network for browsing. This uses the WS-DISCOVERY protocol. Contact your other vendors and manufacturers if their devices still don't appear in this browse list after the Windows devices appear. It is possible they have this protocol disabled or that they support only SMBv1.


We've already established that Brennan devices support later versions of SMB (by mapping then to a drive letter with SMB 1 disabled), so this workaround should let you browse for your Brennan without enabling SMB v1 on your Windows computer. What your Sonos needs when talking to the Brennan is completely independent of what your PC does. Your Sonos should work even if you don't have a PC.

[Leslie Brownlee]

Interesting stuff guys. A bit above my head though. 

Mark, from what you say I gather mapping my drive must be using a later version of SMB. As SMB 1.0 in my case is not enabled. 

What could be preventing other Windows 10 users from being able to use this route and can't see the B2 unless SMB1.0 is enabled?

[Mark Fishman]

SMB 1.0 is not enabled on my Windows 10, as well, and I can map my B2's drive as a shared folder.

I can think of two things that might slow down someone trying to "see" their Brennan on the network. One is just that, trying to see it, by browsing the Windows "Network neighborhood". That's not going to work without the discovery service that Microsoft mentions in that page I pointed you at. Since the discovery service is turned off along with SMB 1, unless it's turned back on separately, trying to browse for the Brennan is going to fail.

The other thing that's sometimes frustrating is that my B2 isn't always as responsive to network requests as I might like. Sometimes I have to try the map command twice or (rarely) three times, because Windows will time out if it doesn't get an answer right away. It's rather like pressing the button to call an elevator: if the elevator is busy, don't we all press the button again, and sometimes again, instead of just waiting? The B2 can be like that, but Windows gives up trying (times out) after it doesn't get an answer right away. At least the elevator remembers...

What I don't understand is why some folks think changing the settings in Windows has anything to do with how a completely separate device (e.g., a Sonos system) tries to connect with a non-Windows server (e.g., the B2). Does having a Sonos system require that one have a computer running MS-Windows? What do people do if they own a Mac and want to use a Sonos device?

I just want to listen to music. That part works for me.

[Rob Lawes]

For the average home user all this "security" issue stuff really isnt a big issue, as most router/modems supplied by your internet service provider are locked down by their

in built firewalls. So blocking access from the outside world to for example the ports that nas/smb require.

In a business situation however things are different, as they may have multiple offices that need to share files between them. So would have the ports for file sharing open.

Which is why it was businesses that were mainly hit with the wannacry attacks.

Of course "if" your home network is allowing access on certain ports from the outside world, i would be more worried about my b2 or bb1 being exposed, as the root password

is freely known....

Note to Martin... Maybe hae an option to turn on and off ssh from the B2/BB1.

[Mark Fishman]

Let's talk about good practices for a second.

> For the average home user all this "security" issue stuff really isnt a big issue, as most router/modems supplied by your internet service provider are locked down by their in built firewalls. 

Those built-in firewalls have had their own security issues: within the past year or so, most routers had to have their firmware upgraded (in some cases it was done "in the background" by your internet-service provider -- isn't that a cheery thought? your router can have its internals altered "over the wire" without you even knowing about it) because they were susceptible to attack by outsiders who could read your traffic and inject malware into your home network.

In fact, even a totally disconnected -- "air-gapped" -- computer is not immune to external attack. The Iranian centrifuges used to purify uranium were crippled by software brought in on a USB thumb drive (about ten years ago, now).

One layer of defense is not enough.

Why would you make the problem worse than it has to be by running software that you don't have to have and don't need to use? Every piece of code that you add is likely to have some vulnerabilities because programmers are not perfect. If you don't need it, don't install it, or remove it, or lock it down. Even Microsoft finally got (most of) that message about ten years ago: their operating systems used to ship with every service and function turned on by default. Now they only turn on things you are likely to use.

It's a lot harder to find and turn off stuff that you don't use (and thus don't know is there) than it is to find and turn on stuff you need.

You're right in one regard: the average user shouldn't have to know about this stuff. Just as the average driver shouldn't have to know how to repair a broken axle, or swap out an alternator. But the average driver does have to know how to drive safely so they don't create a hazard for other drivers.

And average computer users should know how to prevent their computers from becoming a hazard to other computers on the network, as zombies and netbots, and inadvertent spam relays.

Is it a "big" issue? There are about 700 million Windows boxes out there. If 1% of them are infected, or have their data stolen or encrypted, or are trolling the 'net without their owners' knowledge, that's a big issue. (That's an optimistic estimate, by the way.)

Be considerate. Be safe. Take the precautions that don't interfere significantly with your use of the computer, espcially when you don't have to do anything at all to do that. If you keep turning on 30-year-old software with known vulnerabilities instead of telling manufacturers (e.g., Sonos) that it's past time to stop requiring it, they'll never change, because they already have your money.

Brennan doesn't need you to run SMB 1.0 on your WIndows computer.

[Chris A]

Hi Mark

Are you saying that a B2 and a BB1 are vulnerable to, say, Cryptolocker, if your PC is using SMB 1.0 whereas they are not vulnerable if they are connect as mapped drives?

[Mark Fishman]

> Are you saying that a B2 and a BB1 are vulnerable to, say, Cryptolocker, if your PC is using SMB 1.0 whereas they are not vulnerable if they are connect as mapped drives?

(a) Whether you connect as a mapped drive or just using a UNC {Universal Naming Convention] path, if you have SMB1 enabled you might be using it. SMB is a network access protocol. Both ways of identifying your Brennan device require network access and Windows prefers SMB (some version) to others, such as NFS (usually used by Unix/Linux systems). What version of SMB is used in a particular connection depends on a negotiation between the client and server. Supposedly it starts at the highest (newest) level supported by the client and negotiates down, rather than the other way.

(b) If your computer is infected by malware, including but not limited to Cryptolocker, most modern malware spreads by looking for any network connection that your computer has. It may try to attack connected network shares, it may look for other computers or devices on your network. Whether it's a mapped drive letter or another type of connection often makes no difference.

(c) The B2 and BB1 are unlikely to be infected directly because most malware is processor-type specific, or application specific (macro viruses in Microsoft Office, for example). Your computer uses an Intel CPU; the Brennan devices use a Raspberry Pi, which does not run the same code. But if your B2 or BB1 drive is visible to your computer, then code running on the computer can read/write/modify any drive it can see.

(d) Keep backups of both the Brennan and the computer. Keep them OFFLINE. If they are visible on the network, they are not offline.

[Chris A]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the comprehensive and helpful response.

[Mark Fishman]

Here's another fun way to connect to your B2 in Windows 10 without enabling SMB 1.0, and this time without mapping a drive letter. You will have to know your B2's IP address, and it will be a good idea to assign a fixed IP address for the B2 in your network router.

Make sure that you have started NAS on the Brennan device.

Open the Windows Explorer (sometimes called the File Manager)..

Click on "This PC".

At the top of the window, click on "Add a network location" (see first attached picture).

You''ll see "Welcome to the Add Network Location Wizard" -- click Next.

Click on "Choose a custom network location" (see 2nd attached picture) and click Next

Now it wants the usual UNC for s network shared: type in \\[your Brennan IP here]\music

 where instead of [your Brennan IP here] you type the actual IP address of your Brennan.

You'll be prompted (eventually -- the B2 seems quite slow compared to, say, a desktop or laptop computer) for the username and password. This is the tricky part: for username, you should type [your Brennan IP here]\root -- that way the connection knows that you are trying to authenticate using the remote credentials, not some non-existent local root account.

for password, you should probably type brennan unless you have recently changed it in which case you're on your own here.

You do get to give the shortcut that will get created a human-friendly name sometime around now.

Eventually (again) not only will the music directory from the B2 display on your Windows computer, you'll also have a shortcut in the "This PC" section of  Windows Explorer (see last attached picture).

The next time you want to connect, if your Brennan has a stable IP and is running, just click on the shortcut.

[Barry Creyton]

A million thanks for unraveling the mysteries of connecting to Windows 10. I always considered myself computer savvy, and in days gone by built my own PCs - but I swear the misery of figuring out Windows networking defeats me.

If I now copy the entire Brennan library to a drive or stick, is this now viable as a restorable backup?  I need to reformat the brennan HDD to fix the "read only" problem.

[Mark Fishman]

So it worked, I hope, and you now have your drive visible in Windows? Good.

I have looked at a drive I have with an exported B2 collection -- that's using the Export function, for copying back using Import -- to be sure of the directory structure that the B2 creates. If you're going to connect it to the B2 for Import later, the drive does have to be formatted as FAT32, not exFAT or NTFS.

This is my USB drive structure:

\b2Export

is at the root level; below that are two directories, music and playlists -- if you don't have any really complicated playlists right now I would ignore them.

Under \b2Export\music are the ARTIST directories, with the albums and tracks below, just as they are on the B2. so if you create that top level pair of folders and then just copy all the artist directories from the B2 into the music directory on the diskc onnected to your Windows computer, you should be good. Here's an example of what mine looks like:

I hope this helps -- m.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi  BCre...

Just one little shadow crossed my mind when I read

" If I now copy the entire Brennan library to a drive or stick"

If you are using a USB "stick" or thumb drive, here on the Forum we have found that nearly all recent large capacity "stick" drives have been FAKE. 

Please therefore check the entire contents of the "stick" before you Format the B2's HDD. If it is FAKE you could lose everything!!

Fred.

[osro...@yahoo.com]

If you think connecting to NAS was tough wait till you decide to use another program like Media Monkey to connect to the B2 via NAS and then realize that everything needs to have tagging's, I have 3524 albums stored on the B2 and after about a year of tagging albums I have finally made to the R's in my music library.

Rocky

On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 3:31:09 PM UTC-5 BCre...@AOL.com wrote:

[Mark Fishman]

What kind of tags are you trying to add to your music files? The basic ones should be relatively straightforward -- artist name, album name, track name -- because you've already got that information in the directory names. You just have to use a program that will transfer that info from the directory names into the tags.

What else are you putting in? 

[osro...@yahoo.com]

B2 basically reads what's on the folders and files, so that's all you get on the tags, pretty much all the other programs out there get their information off the tags.  I have tons of compilation CD's, on the B2 there's no line for the artists, so you have to include the artist on the same line as the song title, there is also no place for the track #, so that is included on the same line as the song title as well.  I also like to include what year the album came out, so on the B2 I have to include that on same line as the album name, tagging's have places for all this kinds of stuff.  The goal is to make a backup that I can use with Media Monkey, but I consider the B2 to be my master copy, so I need to fix all the tagging's on it first, so I'll have a good backup to use with Media Monkey.  B2 may not last forever, but the Media Monkey program isn't going anywhere.

[osro...@yahoo.com]

Another thing I forgot to mention while I'm tagging all the albums on B2 using Media Monkey I'm giving all the albums a genre, so if I just want to hear rock music I can just click on that genre, sure I could create a rock playlist on B2, but when I'm finally done this will be a whole lot simpler.  You might think that messing with the tags might mess things up on the B2, but it doesn't, because the B2 Isn't looking at the tags it's only looking folders & files.

Rocky

[Barry Creyton]

With gratitude for all the info - my understanding of the various B2 processes has improved greatly. However, the problems continue. Got myself a reliable  512GB stick, backed up completely, checked out in PC, all files there  - formatted the B2 HDD as instructed and started uploading the files.  Three attempts and on each, the upload freezes - never at the same point. When I quite the process, the B2 reads 0 files.  I guess I have to bite the bullet and start uploading CDs from scratch.  I'll hang until I hear any other advice you might have.

[Mark Fishman]

Not quite sure what you mean by "upload", as there actually is an "upload" in the web interface -- do you mean that you have plugged the usb stick into a jack on the B2 and are doing "import"?

[Barry Creyton]

Terminology - yes,  plugged the stick into C and tried to import. Each time, I've reformatted the B2 HDD as your instructions.. each time, sometimes after hours, or days, the process freezes and there is nothing copied to the HDD

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi BCre,

This bit of your post is VERY Important

 Got myself a reliable  512GB stick, backed up completely, checked out in PC, all files there 

If you are SURE from the PC examination that all the files are on the USB 512 GB stick (including all the tracks (and the Stick is NOT Fake),

Then plug the stick into the B2's USB C port, boot the B2 up and from the front panel

Go Main Menu  >  USB  >  Import from C

This should load all your files from the USB stick and restore your B2 to how it was.

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi BCre,

If this process is not working and from you last post it appears it is not, then I suspect the  512GB stick!

Plug it back into the PC (and then assuming you have room on your PC) make a directory called "B2" on the desktop and copy the entire contents of the Stick into this.

At the end do the "properties" of the B2 folder and Stick match or is the stick saying it is bigger.

Fred

[Chris A]

Hi BCre

You have confirmed formatting the B2 HDD as instructed but did you also format the USB stick to FAT32?

[Daniel Taylor]

I think if the USB stick was not formatted as FAT32, the B2 would not even recognize it.

BCre...

Assuming that your 512GB USB stick is good, and the Exported files are good...

The next time you try the Import, if it hangs up, try to run the Scan Disk command.  If the B2 is locked up and won't let you do anything, power down, wait 30 seconds, power up again and then run the Scan Disk command.  Are there any files to be seen then?

[Barry Creyton]

Sandisk USB stick 512GB tests ok.  Copied files to PC -  perfect match for both...
PC:  size: 459 GB (493,550,461,753 bytes)   

size on disk  459 GB (493,579,366,400 bytes)

15,539 Files, 1,155 Folders

USB STICK: size  459 GB (493,550,461,753 bytes) 

size on disk  460 GB (494,107,754,496 bytes)

15,539 Files, 1,155 Folders

As I said, I've tried to import from C several times - freezes every time.

I'll try once more - formatting as per David N's instructions.

[Barry Creyton]

Re my last... NOT perfect! Stick size on disk is bigger than PC size on disk

???

[Mark Fishman]

size on disk depends on size of allocation unit -- actual size of file contents is more important.

If the file doesn't fill the last allocation unit the disk still has to allocate the whole thing, which makes the file "occupy" more space than the actual contents. Bigger disks generally have larger allocaion units (complicated by the fact that different file systems allocate space differently, so NTFS and FAT32 aren't directly comparable).

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi BCre..

OK, you seem to have proved that the contents of your USB Stick does hold a good copy of your B2. DO NOT LOSE or reformat this USB Stick.

Given that there is no "rational" reason why you should not be able to "Import" from this USB Stick, one is left with the conclusion that your B2's Software (Which lives on a little internal SD Card inside your B2 - separate from the B2's Hard Disk where the music is stored) has become corrupted. 

Therefore the next step in firefighting your problem would be to replace the SD Card with one from Brennan (which comes with the software on it) or refresh the software on the existing card (re-flash it).

From you posts, you seem to be IT competent so I would suggest the second option.

There are plenty of posts on the Forum about how to do this, but we can guide you through it if you want (and decide to do this)

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Hi BCre

Been thinking,  Was there an "event" which happened around the time your HDD went read only, eg an unexpected house power failure or an electrical storm?

I don't personally use any form of UPS (uninterruptable Power Supply) at my home, but I DO plug my B2 into asocket that will protect it from power surges or spikes.

Fred

[Mark Fishman]

Ah, I *do* use a UPS for all my computers, especially so if they have writable media. That includes my B2 and two Cocktail Audio music servers.

At work one day, I got a call from an idio--errr, a staff member who had wondered what would happen if he removed the power from his computer while it was writing to disk. It turns out that the disk continues writing even as the heads are retracted across the disk surface when the power goes down, which irretrievably trashes the disk. (It actually destroys some of the positioning information embedded between the sectors so that you can't even reformat the platters outside of the factory.) Admittedly that's the worst case, and VERY unlikely apart from deliberate sabotage, but it does indicate that removing power in an uncontrolled manner can be disastrous.

SSDs -- solid-state disks -- don't have heads or spinning platters, so they won't be damaged to the same extent by a power removal. The data can be corrupted, though, and as the power comes back UP after an outage it often has spikes or unstable voltages, and those can damage the circuits in both the SSD and the rest of the computer (i.e., B2). Surge protection can help prevent that sort of damage.

So backups -- at least two, preferably on different brands of media -- are your friend. Clean power is always a good idea.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Barry,

Below is a screenshot my 512GB USB stick (PNY brand) which is a full Export of my collection.  I have used this on numerous occasions to Import onto B2s and it has worked perfectly so far.

Is your USB stick formatted to FAT32 as shown in the attachment below?

Regards,

Peter.

[Barry Creyton]

Nope, no interruptions to any action I've performed with the Brennan. Power has remained consistent, and to my recollection, I've never interrupted any process. I'll search for the SD reflash info - if too tricky, I'll order a new one from Brennan.

[Barry Creyton]

Gave the process one more try before tearing my hair out - and now all is working perfectly.  Reformatted the HDD, imported from the USB in C, saved, and now have no "read only" problems, and can load files, CDs and build playlists again.  My thanks to all who gave sage advice. 

[PMB]

Hi BCre..,

Great news. Perseverance paid off!

Paul

Brennan Support.