USB C not working?

[666Tomsk]

Hi, I recently inherited a Brennan B2 from my late father and have been setting it up & adding my music. It had a faded display, so I have replaced that, I have upgraded the firmware, now on version B2B Nov 24 2020. I have the Wi-Fi dongle in USB A which works fine.

The issue I am having is with USB C. I bought a Bluetooth dongle as linked to from the Brennan site, but when plugging into USB C and rebooting, the web interface still says No Dongle (Under Bluetooth menu). I also bought an LG external CD drive as mentioned on the Brennan site, but again in USB C, there is power, but it does not recognise when I put a CD into the drive.

I'm pretty sure that when my father had it, we tried doing a SW upgrade from a mem stick, and that didn't work in USB C.

Is there something simple I can do to check that USB C is functioning? Does it some up in the debug output on boot-up which I can see through the web interface?

Thanks

Tom

[666Tomsk]

Just to add to this...I have swapped the bluetooth into USB A, and it detects it without a problem. But having swapped the WiFi dongle to USB C, I get no WiFi, so looks like there is an issue with USB C.

Is this something that can be fixed do you think?

[Brian R]

Hi Tom 

Could it be something as simple as a plug in the Raspberry pi board which was unplugged / disturbed when you replaced the display?

Brian

[666Tomsk]

Hi Brian,

I don't think so, as I don't think it was working beforehand, and I only pulled out the front panel to change the display. But I'll try and open it up & see if I can see anything, but looking at images of Pi boards, looks like USB boards are directly soldered onto the board itself.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Tom,

It could be that the B2's SD card/ micro SD card has become slightly corrupted, and that is causing the problem. 

Then you have two options to fix this issue.

1. Purchase an updated (micro)SD card from Brennan; the card arrives with the updated B2 software already installed. The price is around £10.

OR

2. Re-flash your existing (micro)SD card with the latest software that can be downloaded from the Brennan website (free of charge).

If you let us know which type of SD card your B2 uses, we can post additional details of how to reflash your card.  If the SD card is protruding out of the side of the case, the you have the early B2 model which uses an SD card, whereas if the card is inside the case then the B2 is the later model which  uses a microSD card.

You are correct is saying that the USB connectors are soldered onto the circuit board, but that might not be the root of the problem.

Let us know how you would like to procede and we'll advise further.

Regards,

Peter.

On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 13:52:51 UTC Brian R wrote:

[666Tomsk]

Thanks Peter, I'll try this, as I do have 2 SD cards for the Brennan. It is the old B2 with the SD card protruding from the side. I'm just flasing the 2nd card now, and will try in a bit. I just need to wait a bit as the B2 is currently still converting some CDs I ripped to FLAC, so I'll wait, save, then try the 2nd card...

[666Tomsk]

OK, just tried the 2nd card, flashed with download from Brennan site, which when I boot gives me version B2B Sep 8 2020, USB-C still not working. I then did a web upgrade so now at B2B Dec 3 2020, still no joy.

I've also just re-flashed the 1st card, no change USB-C still not functioning (apart from power). So don't think it could be the card?

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Tom,

No, it isn't the card.  Unfortunately it looks like there is a hardware fault in the B2.

You could buy a USB hub, a 2 or 3 port and run multiple devices on USB A.  There are some functions that are specific to USB C, but the important function 'Export' works on A or C.

Regards,

Peter.

[666Tomsk]

Thanks Peter, good shout, I'll get a small USB hub and try the wifi & bluetooth through USB-A.

Otherwise, how hard a job is it to replace the Pi in the B2, as I guess I could get an old one of these very cheaply?

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

I too have an old Brennan - If it is a Pi board with a 26 pin header, I am not sure if these are still made.

This aside I do not think it will be a Pi board problem. The USB ports on the board are plugged into and wires extend them round to the back of the Brennan. 

It would be worth having the back off and tracing the wires back from Brennan's USB C to the Pi board to make sure nothing has become unseated/loose.

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Ps if your Brennan has a HDD, I believe one of the PI's USBs is used to connect to this.

Fred

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Guys,

The way the B2 works in regard to the USB ports is that the USB ports on the rear panel are actually connected to the 'daughter board' (the larger cicuit board located underneath the Ras Pi board.  The USB A and USB C ports are connected from the daughter board to the two USB ports on the Ras Pi.  The HDD is plugged directly into the daughter board (and is not connected to the Ras Pi board) and is assigned to the B2 as USB B.

So you don't need to disconnect the HDD as it is not connected to the Ras Pi board.

Regards,

Peter.

[666Tomsk]

Cheers guys, sounds like maybe something could have just become dislodged then.

I'll open it up tomorrow & see if I can see any issues with the connectors.

I really appreciate your help with this, thanks

[666Tomsk]

OK, opened it up, and as you guys said, there are two connector cables that connect the Pi USB ports to the daughterboard. They were connected OK, but I removed and re-installed them, rebooted and still no USB-C.

I was thinking - I could work out which USB port on the Pi connects to which external port easy enough (just by removing a single connector), so was thinking, would it be OK to plug the Bluetooth dongle directly into the USB port on the Rasp Pi? (that normally would connect to USB-C), as this would tell me if it was the Pi board or the daughterboard

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Well done Tom

However if it is possible (the cables are long enough if you swap the cables at the daughter board and (what was usb c but is now connected as usb a) works, you will have proved that the physical cable and connector to usb c is OK.

So if it does work, That means that the problem has moved back to the daughter board.

So if it does not work, That means that there is a problem with the cable to and or connector for usb c.

--------------------------

I think that the above (if the cables allow it)  would be a better plan  that the one you propose because I am not convince that Bluetooth would work within the shielding of the Pi case.

fred

[666Tomsk]

OK, I just tried swapping the cables, rebooted & nearly had a heart attack! It came up with B2 0G (instead of 1000G), then started scanning loads of USB port numbers! It then said USB-C mass storage was mounted (not sure what that was, as definitely not the HDD!) But the Wi-Fi (which is still plugged into USB-A) was working. The bluetooth (in USB-C) still didn't.

Anyway - swapped the leads back round and all working again (apart from USB-C) phew!!!!

So not sure what that tells me - any idea?

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Very strange - according to Peter 

"The way the B2 works in regard to the USB ports is that the USB ports on the rear panel are actually connected to the 'daughter board' (the larger cicuit board located underneath the Ras Pi board.  The USB A and USB C ports are connected from the daughter board to the two USB ports on the Ras Pi.  The HDD is plugged directly into the daughter board (and is not connected to the Ras Pi board) and is assigned to the B2 as USB B.  "

If I am reading what he says correctly the "The HDD is plugged directly into the daughter board" and there are two USB sockets with leads one going to the B2's USB A and the other going to the B2's USB C. 

From a USB perspective swapping A and C should not have affected the HDD connection. Peter ???? can you help explain ???

BUT 

Tom   if " But the Wi-Fi (which is still plugged into USB-A) was working. The bluetooth (in USB-C) still didn't."  and at this point the cables were swapped on the Daughter board! Then the daughter boards USB C socket as at this point connected to 

the B2's USB A socket WiFi! XXXXXX WORKING XXXXX

and  the Daughter board! Then the daughter boards USB A socket as at this point connected to the B2's USB B socket WiFi! XXXXXX NOT WORKING XXXXX

I THINK we can take form this that both daughter board sockets are working but the Cable/Plug to the B2's USB C socket it faulty.

Do we all concur with this analysis or was the test too messed up by the HDD surprise to count?

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Sorry that was a bit muddled

replace after the BUT with 

Tom  if as you say  " But the Wi-Fi (which is still plugged into USB-A) was working. The bluetooth (in USB-C) still didn't."  and at this point the cables were swapped on the Daughter board, 

Then the daughter board's USB C socket is at this point connected to the B2's USB A socket WiFi! XXXXXX WORKING XXXXX

Then the daughter board's USB A socket is at this point connected to the B2's USB B socket WiFi! XXXXXX NOT WORKING XXXXX

I THINK we can take form this that both daughter board sockets are working but the Cable/Plug to the B2's USB C socket is faulty.

Do we all concur with this analysis or was the test too messed up by the HDD surprise to count?

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

And again another error

Then the daughter board's USB A socket is at this point connected to the B2's USB B socket Bluetooth! XXXXXX NOT WORKING XXXXX  

[Daniel Taylor]

I'm trying to follow this, but it's complicated.  If swapping the USB A & C cables to the daughter board resulted in the same inputs on the back of the unit maintaining the same working/not working status, that would indeed point to either the socket itself or the connecting cable.  But the HDD not working throws a wrench into the whole theory.  It makes me wonder if something else happened while the unit was open.  But now when the USB ports are returned to their proper places, does the HDD work okay again?  Unless there are additional facts we're missing, this could be a really flakey problem with the daughter board.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Sorry Daniel

I rather messed up that message/analysis. but you did seem to get the point (but I do agree it was NOT a clean test).

I thought of one more thing Tom could try.

Tom, if you have a spare USB cable, plug that into the USB C position on the Daughter board and take out through the "U" shaped hole (No 16) at the back of the B2

If I am correct about the B2's USBC socket/cable being bad, as it is now bypassed,  then on power up the new connection should be live!

Indeed you may be able to live with it like that if it works.

Fred

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

Oh Tom and if you have any electrical tape (or indeed sellotape will do at a pinch) can you wrap it round the now spare USB C plug in the B2 so that it does not touch anything it should not and cause a short. Cover all the metal all round.

Fred

[666Tomsk]

Because USB-A worked when crossing the cables, this tells me that both USB ports on the Rasp Pi are working.

So, I tried swapping the two cables that connect the USBs from Pi to daughterboard, and USB-A still works, so cables seem OK, which only leaves the daughterboard. So I guess it must have a fault.

I can't run any cables from the dautherboard unfortunately Fred, as the USB ports on the back of the Brennan are soldered onto the board, and the connector on the daughterboard that goes to the Pi, is not a standard USB, but a different 4 pin connector. The only internal USB ports are the ones on the Pi itself.

So I think I've gone as far as possible, anyway, I've now ordered this from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01DJO32XU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  will put it in USB-A, so then at least I can have the wifi & bluetooth running.

The USB-C still has some use - as it does provide power, I just found I can plug my tiny DAC/Headphone Amp (which is USB powered) into USB-C to power it, then use the Toslink to hook it up. This works great, and means I only need the Brennan to have a mains plug when using my headphones!

Thanks for your help guys, it was worth a look, and at least I would be confident doing other things now like swapping the HDD if ever needed.

[fred.w....@gmail.com]

OK Tom

BUT if you are going to get a USB hub to solve this, I would recommend you get a powered one as the Brennan does not deliver much power to the USB ports and without a powered hub you are going to run into trouble connecting USB devices.

eg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SuperSpeed-Individual-Switches-Charging-Splitter-USB-3-0-hub-15w-AC-adapter/dp/B07B2HJG8P/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=8RKHNE6WFY3X&dchild=1&keywords=powered+usb+3+hub&qid=1607439707&sprefix=powered+usb%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSlNPWU1TTVVDVzgyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDQ4NzcxM0pVSFpUUUoyS082JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA3NjkwMDQzSUdJSzVTQk5SWTcxJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Fred

[Brian R]

Hi Tom 

Well done for tying it down so far.  One other thing you could look at is the USB socket contacts, look into the end of USB C ,of the four contacts  the two inboard ones deal with data , see if either is missing , mangled or insulated with something (a wooden cocktail stick is a good probe) obviously turn off the B2 first. If one is displaced you may be able to relocate it.

Brian  

[666Tomsk]

Thanks Brian, I did check those to begin with and they look fine, but I'll try and give them a quick clean with a cotton bud.

Thanks for the recommendation Fred, I'll try the one I've ordered as it is only for the wifi & bluetooth dongle, but if I have problems with it I'll move to a powered one.

[Mark Fishman]

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 5:44:42 PM UTC-5 tom.mil...@gmail.com wrote:

OK, I just tried swapping the cables, rebooted & nearly had a heart attack! It came up with B2 0G (instead of 1000G), then started scanning loads of USB port numbers! It then said USB-C mass storage was mounted (not sure what that was, as definitely not the HDD!)

On a B2, the older case had a USB B jack (as shown in a picture in this thread). The newer case (e.g., my B2) has a blank panel at that spot. Either way the USB B jack DOES NOT WORK for external connections because it is used INTERNALLY to connect the hard disk to the Raspberry Pi.

If you swapped cables and rebooted, and the Pi couldn't immediately find the hard disk, then one of the cables you moved was probably the one that "should" have been USB B. In other words, you moved the hard disk to a different connector on the Pi by moving a cable... That leads me to suspect that USB C (which should be connected) isn't working because a cable is either missing or miswired. Or there's a daughterboard fault.

 

But the Wi-Fi (which is still plugged into USB-A) was working. The bluetooth (in USB-C) still didn't.

Anyway - swapped the leads back round and all working again (apart from USB-C) phew!!!!

So not sure what that tells me - any idea?

Proceed carefully write everything down, take pictures (if you have a camera or phone w/camera), and proceed logically. I don't know what should be in a B2 of that vintage so cannot suggest what to look for, but others here should be able to assist.

 

On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 14:49:12 UTC tom.mil...@gmail.com wrote:

OK, just tried the 2nd card, flashed with download from Brennan site, which when I boot gives me version B2B Sep 8 2020, USB-C still not working. I then did a web upgrade so now at B2B Dec 3 2020, still no joy.

I've also just re-flashed the 1st card, no change USB-C still not functioning (apart from power). So don't think it could be the card?

On Monday, 7 December 2020 at 14:26:29 UTC 666Tomsk wrote:

Thanks Peter, I'll try this, as I do have 2 SD cards for the Brennan. It is the old B2 with the SD card protruding from the side. I'm just flasing the 2nd card now, and will try in a bit. I just need to wait a bit as the B2 is currently still converting some CDs I ripped to FLAC, so I'll wait, save, then try the 2nd card...