Jamie
I recently upgraded to the March 1 B2 release and have encountered three problems with the Sonos interface – one minor, the other two more significant. I am not sure what release I was on prior to upgrading to March 1.
My Sonos system includes seven speakers (one of which is itself a group of three speakers). All but one of these speakers is compatible with Sonos S2. The seventh speaker is an old one that is still on Sonos S1.
First, the minor issue is that artists/albums/tracks that include the & character in their names do not display the & character in the now playing area. The relevant music plays ok. This is just a display issue.
Second, prior to now the B2 has always found all seven Sonos speakers and that situation persisted across a B2 session. With the latest release, the B2 finds only all the S2 speakers OR only the single S1 speaker. Every few minutes the B2 switches between these two statuses.
For example, suppose the B2 finds the S2 speakers at the start of the session. When I play music on one of these speakers, I find that, after a few minutes, the B2 now playing area goes blank and the B2 can no longer control the S2 Sonos speaker though which the music is still playing e.g. it cannot halt the current track. At this point, when I select the Sonos button on the B2 interface, the only Sonos speaker shown is the S1 speaker. After another few minutes, the situation reverts to the original status i.e. the B2 can again see only the S2 speakers and the now playing area reverts to showing the track that is playing on the S2 speaker. This anomaly recurs every five or ten minutes.
Third, occasionally when I try to select a Sonos speaker, the B2 will not allow me to do this. Instead, I see a small sign like a road traffic no entry sign when I attempt a selection. This anomaly comes and goes. I cannot spot any pattern in its timing.
fred.w....@gmail.com
PMB
Jamie
Hi Fred and Paul,
Thanks for your replies.
My mixed S1/S2 Sonos system has included the same S1 and S2 speakers since the B2 Sonos interface was first introduced. Prior to my upgrade to the March 1 release, the B2 handled this situation successfully. It found all my Sonos speakers. They persisted throughout a B2 session.
Your replies suggest that you suspect that there is an inherent problem for the B2 to connect successfully to a mixed Sonos system. However, the B2 has already connected successfully to my mixed Sonos system.
It seems like there are three possible scenarios here.
Scenario 1: It is possible to connect the B2 successfully to a mixed S1/S2 Sonos system. However, Martin has recently introduced new code that causes the symptoms I described earlier. As I said. I do not know what software release I was on prior to my March 1 upgrade. I may have jumped one or more releases so the faulty code may have been in any of the last few releases. In this scenario, the obvious next step would be for Martin to investigate and fix the B2 interface code.
Scenario 2: It is possible that there is an inherent architectural reason why the B2 interface will not connect successfully to a mixed S1/S2 Sonos system. It would have been a fluke that the B2 interface operated correctly for me in earlier releases. In this scenario, the obvious next step would be for Martin to decide what he wants the B2 to do if it detects a mixed Sonos system. For example, he might decide to limit the B2 interface to handling only the S2 speakers and document this as a limitation of the interface. I could perfectly understand if that were a proposed solution.
Scenario 3: My current problems are caused by something other than the S1/S2 split. In this scenario, we would have to do more investigation to spot another pattern.
I think that we are probably in scenario 1. Scenario 2 is possible but feels less likely to me, and there is no evidence for or against scenario 3. You seem to think scenario 2 is more likely. Even if we are in that scenario, a change is needed to the B2 code so that the B2 can detect a mixed Sonos system and handle that scenario successfully.
Many long-term Sonos users will have a mixed S1/S2 Sonos system currently so this problem will probably recur with other Sonos users. Over time, people will upgrade their Sonos systems to replace S1 speakers with S2 equivalents. I had three S1 speakers and have replaced two of them so far. However, it will take time for this to happen.
I would like to know Martin’s view. In the meantime, when I get time, I will temporarily turn off the S1 speaker and see what happens. I will report back my findings. I would be interested in knowing whether anyone else with a mixed Sonos system has similar symptoms with the March 1 B2 release.
fred.w....@gmail.com
Why do you think that if a Sonos app (S2) can not address one of its old speakers the B2 should be able to?
PMB
PMB
Jamie
Paul,
When I came back to the forum to make my BT Smart Hub 2 router
post the other day, I realised that I had never replied to this post. Apologies
for the very long delay. I carried out the tests a while back but for some
unknown reason did not post them. I have been playing music via the Sonos app
rather than using the B2 interface in the meantime. I redid the tests yesterday. I am still on the B2 March 1 release.
The problem disappears when I switch off the S1 speaker and reappears when I switch it back on. The problem persists if I switch off an S2 speaker i.e. the problem is not related to the total number of speakers.
I tested the problem by playing a single track that is about seven minutes long. The B2 now playing area switched back and forth several times while the song continued to play, indicating that it had gone back and forth between seeing only the S2 speakers and seeing only the S1 speaker. Each time it changed the log displayed two new lines:
Topology has changed
saveSonos ()
After the track completed, I left the B2 alone to see what
would happen. The log continued to show similar switches i.e. the problem is
not specific to when the B2 is playing music. It occurs even when the B2 is otherwise idle.
Peter Karetnyk
It may well be my WiFi setup that is not suitable but before trying to change that I would like to know what the issue is between b2 and sonos in my case and probably yours as well.
PMB
PMB
Peter Karetnyk
Jamie
Paul,
The BT router issue is entirely separate.
First, the issue we are discussing in this thread arose immediately after I installed the B2 March 1 release. This predates the BT router issue by over a month.
Second, my 5.0GHz devices cannot currently see the B2 so my latest tests could not possibly have used any of these devices even if I were unaware of the BT router issue.
My latest tests involved the following devices. My Windows 10 desktop and my B2 both connect at 2.4GHz. All my Sonos devices, bar one, use Sonosnet - which links to the BT network via a hardwired connection at the router. The exceptional Sonos device is my portable Sonos Move which connects at 2.4GHz.
My latest tests show the same results I was experiencing before the BT router issuer occurred. My latest tests were just to provide you with more information on a pre-existing issue to help you and Martin diagnose the problem.
Jamie
PK,
It feels like we have different but related issues, so I am happy to hear your views. Here is some background about my use of Sonos and the B2, and a couple of questions for you, to get us on the same wavelength.
I too am a long-time Sonos user. I initially used it to play music from my iTunes library. I bought my B2 in 2016 with a view to re-digitising my music collection using FLAC format and replacing my iTunes library. This process is now long completed except for a few tracks that I rarely play and are still on iTunes.
I first connected my B2 library to Sonos in 2016. Initially, I had to link a back-up of my B2 library to Sonos as the master B2 music library was not accessible to Sonos. Around 2017, the B2 added a NAS facility. This meant that I could link Sonos and the master B2 music library directly.
Let’s call this method of playing B2 music on Sonos speakers the standard method. Sonos is in charge via its app. The B2 is just a file server that Sonos can access to read track data. With one or two minor exceptions, this method has worked for me over the intervening years. It still works now.
I understand that you bought your B2 recently. Have you tried this standard method of playing B2 music? If so, does it work ok, or do you have any issues with it? How did you use Sonos prior to buying the B2? For example, did you have an iTunes library (or equivalent) linked to Sonos or did you just stream music from Spotify (or an equivalent streaming service)?
At the end of last year, Martin introduced his Sonos interface. Let’s call this method of playing B2 music on Sonos speakers Martin’s method. The B2 is in charge. Sonos is just a set of speakers that the B2 can instruct to play music.
Note that Martin’s method is not essential for me as I have used the standard method for years. However, I am happy to help Martin iron out bugs in his interface as Martin’s method gives me additional flexibility. There were teething problems with the initial releases of Martin’s method. However, after a few releases, I was able to use Martin’s method successfully to play B2 music on any of my Sonos speakers. There were still a few minor presentation issues but, at minimum, the B2 interface was stable. However, immediately after I upgraded to the B2 March 1 release, the B2 interface became unstable in the manner I have described earlier in this thread.
Regarding Martin’s method, what issues do you have? I understand that your main issue is that your new Roam device causes the B2 to lose access to your other devices. Bur do you have any other issues? I do not own a Roam, but I do own a Move which is the other portable Sonos speaker. The Move has not caused me any problems regarding Martin’s method.
Peter Karetnyk
PMB
PMB
Jamie
Paul,
I am happy to help you further. However, I do not have a spare memory card so you would have to send me one if you wanted me to test the B2 on anything other than the B2 March 1 release. However, I do not think that your suggestion will advance the situation.
As I said at the start of this thread, I noticed this issue when I upgraded to the B2 March 1 release. That does not mean that the issue was caused by the B2 March 1 release. It means that it was caused by one of the releases between my previously installed release and the March 1 release. However, as I also said, I cannot remember what release I was on prior to March 1.
It would not have been the February 25 release as I would have remembered that. Also, that was an unofficial B2B only release. I am not on B2B. I am on B2. Also, I do not ever upgrade to unofficial releases that require any faffing about.
When Martin initially introduced the Sonos interface I started a thread to make my comments. The last entry I made on that thread was on November 20, so I cannot guarantee that I upgraded to any release between that date and March 1.
For example, I note that there was a release on January 11 that includes “the system will behave better if a Sonos speaker is turned off”. I do not remember seeing that release. For all I know, my problem in this thread could have been introduced in that release or several others
Jamie
PK,
I would suggest that you try the standard method. You have nothing to lose, and it is not that difficult. I set up the standard method years ago and found it straightforward. Others who have tried it more recently have found it more difficult. However, there are several threads on here about their issues and how to solve them. As far as I understand, the issues relate to a change that Microsoft has made in Windows 10 that prevents Windows from seeing the B2. That prevents the Sonos App (Windows version) from seeing the B2 to attach the B2 music directory to the Sonos library.
The key point is that these issues are one-off issues rather than ongoing issues such as the ones you are facing now. If you can use the standard method successfully to play B2 tracks that would suggest that your current issues are with Martin’s interface. If not, that would suggest that your issues are elsewhere.
How do you control Sonos i.e. on what machine is your Sonos app located e.g. Windows, iPad etc? Also, when you added music to the B2 did you compress the files to FLAC format or are they WAV (standard CD format) or MP3? I am asking in case you need help to set up the standard method.