Should I get a DAC for my B2?

[John Alexander]

Having seen the message from Keith Knight about how happy he is with a DAC that costs about £7 I am wondering if I should get a DAC. The fact that there are so many to chose from with an incredible price range, some cost over £1,000, Are there any other users here using a DAC with a B2, if so what unit, how much better is the sound and what did it cost?

BTW - my amp is an Onkyo TX-NR747. I know I could connect to the amp with an optical lead but I need to use an analogue input on the amp as I use the Zone 2 option on the amp.

TIA

John

[Daniel Taylor]

If you decide to get an external DAC, before you buy make sure you can return it for a refund.  Then if you don't feel like you hear an improvement, or enough of one, you can get your money back.

[JFBUK]

Hi John,

are you unhappy with the sound quality you currently have ?

The final arbiter is our ears and that is by definition individual and subjective.

Looking at your Onkyo spec it does support playback of audio files from a NAS server and if  I am correct you can send the rendered audio from those files to zone 2.

If you enable NAS on the B2 you could send files from the B2 to the Onkyo and it would use its own DAC to render them.

You would have to do this using the Onkyo app not the B2 Web UI to control playback though.

This would give you a test of whether you can notice an improvement over the B2s internal DAC.

John

[Daniel Taylor]

John (JFBUK),

If we had a Like button, I'd press it.  ;o)

[Davywhizz]

Just a couple of observations if you decide on a hardware solution rather than getting into NAS:

You don't need to spend a huge amount on a DAC if you will only use the B2 optical feed. You will probably know it's capped at CD quality (16/44.1). 

I currently run my B2 optically into a Bluesound Node streamer, to get the benefit of its DAC, then the combined analogue output goes by RCA to the amp. 

I also take a digital coax cable out of the streamer to a headphone amp/DAC, a Fiio K5 Pro. This cost £149 and gets excellent reviews. It has digital (optical and coax), USB and RCA inputs and a RCA line out as well as the headphone output.  A couple of the reviews of the K5 Pro were slightly less enthusiastic about its line out, so I'm hesitating to recommend it for your needs, but the criticism seemed to be based on electronic measurements rather than listening and I know I'd happily use mine to feed powered speakers or hifi: https://www.fiio.com/k5pro

So...you could consider a combined DAC/streamer or DAC/headphone amp rather than just a DAC on its own, to get those added benefits for not necessarily a lot more cash.

[John Alexander]

Thank you all for the useful tips and suggestions. 

John

On Saturday, 21 August 2021 at 11:38:37 UTC+1 Daniel Taylor wrote:

[Jasper Warwick]

Although I liked (and still like) the B2 I was not happy with the sound output from my bi-amped Roksan Caspian set up. I upgraded to a Cambridge Audio DACMagic 100 DAC (costing about £150) and was very impressed with the improvement. It now compares to the output from my (£1000) Meridian CD player. If I had more time to really listen to music I might be tempted to spend a bit more on a DAC but given how I use my current set up I am really pleased with my purchase.

I would have thought with a decent quality amp you would see the benefit of getting a decent DAC for it.

[Davywhizz]

That's a good call. I have a Cambridge Audio DACMagic XS in my laptop/powered speakers system and it's great. No good for a B2 as it only has a USB input, but their other DACs have more connectivity and will be at least as good.

[Daniel Taylor]

Lately, I have been doing quite a lot of research into DACs costing less than $200.  Based on all the reviews I've read and heard, the one that seems to provide the best bang for the buck is the Schiit Modi 3+.  It is a DAC only, and not a headphone amp as many units are.  It's priced at $119 on Amazon.  Made in USA.

Another one that looks like it would be worth a try is the FX Audio DAC-X6, at around only $60 (which includes a headphone amp).  Made in China.

If you want UK made, Cambridge Audio has a very good reputation, but the DACmagic 100 is $200 (~£150).  Probably the reason for the higher price is because it has so many input options and sampling rate choices - more than the average B2 user would need.

[RandyT]

Since Daniel mentioned Schiit Audio, I'll chime in. I've been running a Schiit Bifroast Multibit DAC for a few years now. I'm feeding it optical from the B2 and VERY short RCA cables to my preamp. I've tried the B2 analog output and the difference with the outboard DAC is quite obvious. 

I have several pieces of Schiit Audio gear and love them all. Great value for the money. That Schiit Modi 3+ (current version) also has a digital input if you want to run a digital signal from a transport. Black or silver too!

As JFBUK says, it all depends upon what sounds good to YOU.

[John Alexander]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. As I like using the Brennan UI I do not want to use NAS. In the short term I am going to get a TOS to optical cable and connect my B2 to my amp to see if I can detect any improvement in sound quality. If I do then I will then consider a separate DAC so I can continue to use the Zone 2 functionality of my amp. I'll let you know how it goes.

John

[Daniel Taylor]

John,

That's a great idea.  If you don't hear an improvement, then what's the point.  If you do hear better sound then you know you're on the right track.

[JFBUK]

Yes great idea and it would be good to hear back on the results

John

[John Alexander]

I have just done my comparison of using the optical connection to my Onkyo amp versus the analogue. The digital link gives a brighter sound and more volume than the analogue. I used various tracks, all 320k MP3s and the optical route was definitely better for me, especially with the increase in volume. I am also pleased that my impression that the optical connection on the Onkyo would not work with the amp's Zone 2 facility has been proven wrong! I guess what the amp's manual meant the HDMI links would not work with Zone 2 rather than "digital inputs". Either way I am glad I tried this and even happier that I don't have to buy a DAC. I have to say that if anybody is considering a separate DAC for their B2, it is definitely worth trying one out. Thanks again to everybody who contributed to this thread and especially Keith Knight who first put me on this path.

John

[JFBUK]

Good news.

When I read up about your Onkyo it did say that it had a well rated DAC and its great that you can get it to work with your B2 in the way you want.

John

[Davywhizz]

Great result all round. You'd probably hear even more of a difference if you went beyond mp3 quality.

[Daniel Taylor]

John,

Thanks for the info about your Onkyo receiver.  I have my B2 connected to an HDMI input to my own Onkyo receiver, and it won't get played to Zone 2.  But now I'm encouraged that it might play to Zone 2 if I connect it to a digital Toslink input.  Good info - thanks!

[PMB]

Hi John,

Just had a quick look at the  Onkyo TX-NR747, quite a beast...

Paul

Brennan Support.

[John Alexander]

I doubt if going to FLAC or similar will make much difference for me. Before I had even heard of Brennan I did try out the HQ streams from Deezer and Tidal and I really could not tell the difference between them, CD and even Spotify at 320kps. There definitely is no compelling reason for me to consider dumping my 7,500 MP3s.

John

[John Alexander]

Paul

This is my second Onkyo amp as I had to upgrade the old one to cater for UHD TV signals and I really like it and would strongly recommend the brand.

John

[Daniel Taylor]

I too am on my second Onkyo receiver.  I like it pretty well, ergonomics especially.  The sound from it is not quite as good as from my old NAD, but it's a small and subtle difference that is easily ignored.  I don't like to dwell on those tiny differences for fear of becoming a full fledged audiophile.