Great new 'record from radio' feature on latest B2B software

[Peter Lowham]

There is a great new feature on the latest B2B software where you can record straight from the Internet radio to the B2's HDD.  I've been recoring radio programmes for years and so far it has been a bit of a phaff!  Now I can just select the radio station and press 'Rec' on the remote control!  Brilliant!  Thanks Martin.

PS  Will this feature be implemented on the BB1?

22nd October 2021

B2B now has a simple record from radio function.
Play the station on the local (wired) loudspeakers and press REC on the remote.
It will stop when you press stop or after one hour.
The recordings are labeled with the date and time and the radio station is the "artist" so they are easy to find in the web UI.

Regards,

[lesliebr...@gmail.com]

Hi Peter, was going to ask where it was stored, but you've answered that for me. Still on B2 software, but may now flash a new SD to the B2B to use this facility.

[Peter Lowham]

Hi Leslie,

Yes, I would encourage a move to 'B2B'.  Linux desupported the version that 'B2' runs on at least 2 years ago, and the 'B2B' Bluetooth software is a major improvement over the 'B2' version

I've been doing some testing of this feature, and the one thing to be careful of is that it could use up disk space quite quickly.  The radio programmes are saved in '.wav' format initially and this will use disk space up at about 10MB per minute/ 600MB per hour.  The B2 does compress the completed files at some point after the programme/file is complete, but I haven't yet worked out how long after.  I'm testing that now.

Regards,

Peter.

[Daniel Taylor]

Because I was excited to try the new feature, I tried internet radio for the first time today.  I started recording around 10:15am (EDT) and let it record for the maximum time allowed (60 minutes).  I left the house before the recording was done.  When I came back to check on it at about 12:30, the B2 was idle and the recording was done.  I have compression set to None, so it was left as a WAV file, which is fine with me.  I transferred it to my computer (from NAS over WiFi) and edited out the commercials with Audacity. 

So far, I'm quite happy with the new feature.  I wish it could record for more than 60 minutes, but I quite understand why it was set to cut off after that amount of time.

[Mark Fishman]

If the "record" function is converting the internet stream to 16/44.1 WAV, then a little over 3 hours would require 2GB.

But there should be no need to do that! An internet radio stream is almost always at much lower quality than a CD, often 128kbps (or lower) MP3 or AAC, so there's no rationale for increasing the amount of space it takes only to compress it again later. Why not just write the incoming stream directly to the disk, naming it according to the type of stream that it is?

[Peter Lowham]

Hi All,

I recorded 1 hour of BBC Radio 4 and this used 620MB of disk in '.wav' format.  So 3 hours would require approximately 2GB as Mark has stated.  I  don't know the logic behind the Brennan recording process but I'll go with the flow!

Regards,

Peter. 

[Mark Fishman]

I just checked my directory of stuff recorded from BBC Sounds -- a 2-1/2 hour BBC Radio 3 program, streamed at 320kbps AAC, created a 350MB .m4a file. I also looked at some stuff I recorded by capturing the "standard" BBC Radio 3 internet radio stream, which is 128kbps MP3 -- a 2-1/2 hour program is about 140MB at that rate, yielding a .mp3 file. In both cases that's without first expanding the BBC's compressed feed to WAV and then re-compressing it.

VLC is perfectly happy to write an incoming stream to disk in the form it comes in, AND play it at the same time. Therefore I know it's possible.

[Daniel Taylor]

Mark,

I just fired up VLC media player, and it isn't immediately obvious to me how to get it to play, let alone record, an internet radion stream.  Is it simple enough to explain to me in a short post here?

[MJB]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product 

[Mark Fishman]

Martin, thank you -- I was familiar with the concept of a minimum viable product, but not its name. If that is what is at play with this feature (for example), I applaud it. There have been a number of posts in this forum asking about recording internet radio over the years, and this is a start. Thank you -- Mark F.

[Mark Fishman]

VLC will play an internet radio stream if you know the actual stream URL. I don't know what kind of radio you might like to listen to, so I'll offer a local classical music stream WCRB is affiliated with WGBH in Boston MA and streams at 192kbps MP3.

Open VLC (I'm assuming you're using the Windows version, downloaded from vlc.org, not one from the "Windows store" that might be different in small ways). On the "View" menu, make sure that "Docked Playlist", "Advanced Controls" and "Status Bar" are checked (turned on):

On the "Media" menu, Open Network Stream:

Paste or type the stream URL (http://audio.wgbh.org/classical-hi) in the field and click Play at the bottom of the dialog box.

To record the playing stream, click ONCE on the red button in the lower left of the VLC window:

To make it stop, click the red dot ONCE again. There's only a slight visual difference between the two states so watch very closely to see the change. There's also a keystroke available on the "Playback" menu to start and stop recording; it also seems to have little or no visual feedback. But I use the button and it works well for me.

Note that recordings go to a default location unless you have specified otherwise. The default location on Windows 10 for audio recordings is 

C:\Users\[your-username]\Music

If you want to change that, in VLC on the "Tools" menu click Preferences, along the top click Input/Codecs, and about halfway down is a field for "Record directory or filename". I just use a directory -- the default naming includes date, time, and stream info so I can change each file later if I wish.

Cheers -- m.

[Daniel Taylor]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that.  Using your instructions, it works fine.  Apparently, my problem has been finding the actual URL for the stream I want.  For my testing, I've been listening to WXRT 93.1 in Chicago.  The only places I can find to play it provide a play button, but the actual URL is not readily available.  Do you know any way to find it?

[Mark Fishman]

Many stations provide a variation on "other ways to listen" on their home web pages, and often those have direct links for use with non-browser apps. WXRT seems to be owned by a company (Audacy) that doesn't provide such a thing, and the station itself doesn't have a home web page that I can find.

BUT: since it plays in a web browser using one of those "listen" buttons,  finding the stream is actually quite easy (if you don't get scared by so-called developer tools). I like to say that software can be user-friendly, it's just picky about which users it wants to be friends with. :^)

Open a browser tab to https://www.audacy.com/wxrt, which seems to be as close as you can get to a WXRT web page. There's a "Listen" button in the upper right corner -- DON'T CLICK IT (yet). Press Ctl-Shift-I (that's a letter eye) if you're using Chrome or Opera or (I think it also works in) Firefox. Or find the equivalent menu item, which in Chrome is under the "three dots" menu:

You'll get a split window -- on the right, select Network (at the top), and then Media (below it):

NOW, on the left, you can click that "Listen" button. The right half will show the stream that is loaded to play, and you should see a line that begins WXRTFMAAC_SC -- right-click on that and choose Copy, Copy link address. For me that address is:

https://24423.live.streamtheworld.com/WXRTFMAAC_SC?sbmid=b20ffe1c-ee66-4c1a-a890-48b58b39d205&DIST=CBS&TGT=radiocomPlayer&SRC=CBS&lsid=cookie:e483302d-54ed-460d-8d8d-3f01153f2b1f

YOU NEED ONLY THE PART BEFORE THE '?', i.e., https://24423.live.streamtheworld.com/WXRTFMAAC_SC

On all the sites I have found and tried that offer WXRT, you always get the same stream (the portion before the '?'), except once I managed to pick up the "parent" URL, which is https://playerservices.streamtheworld.com/api/livestream-redirect/WXRTFMAAC.aac. You could use that one if you prefer, for mystical reasons. The stream is only at 64kbps, using HE-AAC (formerly called AAC+), which actually encodes using a limited bandwidth and then attempts to reconstruct a plausible set of harmonics using a technique called Spectral Band Replication [SBR], so it sounds better than the low bit rate would suggest.

As the saying goes, give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you get rid of him for the weekend. :)

Cheers -- m.

[JFBUK]

Hi Daniel,

this site seems to give usable URLs and is a searchable list

http://fmstream.org/

Unfortunately WXRT 93.1 is denied to me in the UK as it appears to have geographical constraints on access.

John

[Daniel Taylor]

Wow.  That's way more than I expected.  Given all that, I would have expected most people to just say "it's too complicated"  or more likely, to just have ignored the question.  Thanks for all that.  It started out looking a little different for me than what you got, but ultimately I got the same string that you did.  When I looked at the bitrate of the recorded file, I was puzzled, because it definitely sounded better that what I expected for 64kbps.  It was saved as a .mp4 file - as you say for the AAC codec.  I know MP3s at 64k sound like crap and to me are unlistenable.

Back to something that's maybe a little more pertinent to this thread.  When the actual stream is being transmitted at such a low bitrate, it doesn't make sense to record it as a WAV file.  If the B2 can be made to save it down in it's native form, it makes more sense and will be a great feature.  I did briefly check out the idea of Minimum Viable Product, and I get it.  Got to walk before you can run.  However, I will be so bold as to request a longer, possibly selectable amount of time for a recording.  That will allow entire programs to be recorded when they exceed one hour.  And while I'm wishing, how about a selectable start time?  Just blue sky thinking at this point.  I'll be happy with whatever we end up with.

I'm having fun.  Big thanks to Martin, and also to Mark, for opening the door and turning on the light.

[Daniel Taylor]

Thanks John.

That site gave me what appears to be three choices.  AAC,80,44 gave me the same URL that Mark found.  The other two choices did not work at all for me.  That site could turn out to be a good shortcut to finding the right URL for whatever station(s) I finally decide on.  Thanks.

[MJB]

Hi All

I am not sure if its common knowledge but you can type "podcast" into the Web UI search window and I think that allows you to specify a URL.

I would imagine the new record function will record what plays. I haven't tried "podcast" myself - I'd forgotten it was even there.

I created the new radio record function after an exchange of emails with Tony M. At first I thought I would need to create a new UI to schedule a recording - and such a function could indeed record the original compressed data. But finding the time might delay it by months.

I guessed that a "record now" function would be much simpler to implement and address 90% of the need (Pareto principle).

I've said this elsewhere but the core functionality is usually small compared to the user interface and that applied here.

The core recording function (using wavs) required literally two lines of code. The remainder (the UI) perhaps another 200 lines. So I was able to find the time by virtue of keeping it simple.

Martin

[JFBUK]

Thanks Martin.

I , for one ,did not know that the podcast features was there and it works for any streaming URLs so its not limited to podcasts :)

Pressing 'Rec' prompts you to select 'Aux'  though, so its not branching to your new code  when you are playing a "podcast"

John

[Daniel Taylor]

It turns out that Audacity cannot open an mp4 file.  So I'm having to convert my earlier VLC capture into a WAV file for editing.  So I guess having the B2 put it in that format for me in the first place is not such a bad idea after all.

[Mark Fishman]

Actually Audacity CAN open mp4 files. You just need to download and install the ffmpeg plugin, as the Audacity help screens and configuration screens mention. Audacity is a lot more audacious with the plugin.

Also ffmpeg is a really useful tool to have lying around, if you're ever going to work with audio or video -- it's been referred to as "the Swiss army knife" of media tools. Aside from conversions (I think ffmpeg is what is used in the B2 for making MP3s), it can copy, cut, join, and merge files, and yield a lot of information about them along the way.

Editing in Audacity means that Audacity is (internally) converting your file to WAV, and then writing it out as whatever you specify. If you start with a lossy file, you probably don 't want to do that, however convenient it is. I use Audacity to find the times (minutes.seconds) at which I want to cut -- then I use ffmpeg to copy out those parts I want to keep, without ever having to decode or re-encode them.

Yeah, it's a bit more work, just to avoid that large intermediate step. -- m.

[Mark Fishman]

Forgot the picture:

[Jeff. M.]

Currently listening to JB radio 2 via my chrome cast audio, great sound and station. Don't know what details are, but I put the url into vlc on my phone, and cast it from there! 

[MJB]

Hi John

Thanks for letting me know - apologies for not replying sooner. You may have heard of the global chip shortage. Its very real and is making a lot of work. I will try and get the podcast thing to record this week

Martin

[PMB]

Hi MJB,

There has also been requests to save the podcast address as a Preset.

Paul

Brennan Support.

[Jeff. M.]

That was me Paul, trying to do it in desktop mode on my phone is pretty trying for the eyes, this would make life a lot easier, thanks. 

[JFBUK]

Hi Martin,

I think chips is the priority :)

Another functionality request that seems popular is the ability to schedule recordings so the B2 can record when you are not physically there to press REC.

John

On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 9:35:46 AM UTC PMB wrote:

[Sarah Sanford]

Please can you let me know how I install B2B software? The latest update on my B2 is October 2021. I'm not very technical so apologies if I've missed something.

[Rik]

Sarah, you need a new Sd card with B2b software on. You can programme one yourself (people here say it’s not too difficult)  or, as I guess you’d rather, buy one from the Brennan store for £10.

If you have an older model B2 with Sd card sticking out of the side, as I do, it’s obviously simple. If you have a model with the micro SD card inside you have to take the back off to exchange it. They say this is not really difficult.  I’m sure that if you were worried someone who has done this would reassure you.

[Mark Fishman]

Have you looked at the "info" on the front panel to find out if you are already running B2 or B2B software? It will be the letter prefix before the software date.

[Mark Fishman]

OK. As Rik already mentioned, you can either do it yourself -- mildly techy but actually straightforward once you understand the instructions and buy any necessary hardware bits -- or buy a ready-made one from the Brennan shop: https://www.brennan.co.uk/units

Scroll down until you see two different kinds of SD card, the bigger one that is for older units that have a slot in the side with the card sticking out slightly, and the smaller one that is for newwer units that don't have a slot in the side, and the card is entirely inside. (Two screws and slide the back out about 1 inch; the microSD card is underthe Raspberry Pi board, the smaller board on top with the ethernet connector.)

On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 12:54 PM Sarah wrote:
Mark

Yes, thank you for the suggestion. I have and it's a B2 number, not B2B.

Sarah

[PMB]

Hi Sarah,

If your B2 has the internal SD Card, here are some notes to help with fitting it -

Make sure the B2 is powered off and the DC plug is disconnected.

Remove the two screws marked with arrows (the top two only) - see our Techy Stuff page - link - How to change the micro SD Card.

Only pull the B2's rear panel out far enough (40mm - an inch and a half in old money - maximum) to access the card - otherwise you may pull off the CD Drive connection, which will result in a 'No CD Mechanism' message when the B2 is next powered on.

The SD Card is held in place by a push-push mechanism - to remove the old card push it (against the spring pressure) towards the centre of the unit and then release. It should pop out far enough for you to grip it (bit fiddly) and pull it all the way out - a pair of tweezers will help. Make a note of the orientation of the gold contacts - it needs to go back in the same way up.

To fit the new SD Card insert it – a pair of tweezers will help - with the gold contacts uppermost and push inwards against the spring. It should stay in place when released.

Refit the rear panel, without fitting the screws and power up. The red and green LEDs should flash for few seconds and then the display should light and show  'Brennan B2'. The LEDs stop flashing after around 10-12s and the display will change to 'b2 2000GB' (depending on the model).

If all powers up as expected fit the rear panel screws.

Do a Web Upgrade – Settings menu.

If it's the external - side mounted - type card then it's just a matter of lulling the old one out (power off first) and plugging the new one in.

Paul

Brennan Support.