Smartypants tips

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Drew

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Sep 25, 2005, 8:57:31 PM9/25/05
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Since we all seem to be wielders of tools, any nuggets of wisdom
you'd like to impart -- not of the style "don't stand in puddles
when you're arc welding." But there again.....

So how about this. When using sash cramps, after you've tightened up
tap the movable end with a small hammer, then check that it's still
tight. Often they jamb and it isn't realised until the bleedin things
slip, particularly annoying if using them as router guides.

Best

Norman

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Sep 26, 2005, 3:10:04 AM9/26/05
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I once met a guy with a permanently stiff leg that was a result of an
accident with an angle grinder. He was using a big one to cut concrete,
a road section I think, when someone called his name. He instinctively
looked up with the thing still running in the cut and took the disc
past its flex point. The thing shattered and took his knee cap out. I
don't mind the little ones but am always a bit wary when I have to
use the big ones.

I will probably stand corrected here but I am the only person I know
who tightens up all three jaws of a drill chuck as a matter of course.

Best

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Norman

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Sep 26, 2005, 6:28:04 AM9/26/05
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Something that just occurred to me, concerning the house building that
I sometimes get involved with. One of the profiles that stand in the
corner of a section, to set the building levels as the house rises up
became misaligned for whatever reason. These days the builder would
shoot a laser from the known to the unknown level but the laser in
question was broke so we did it with about eight metres of clear
plastic tube, 90% filled with water. One meniscus was aligned with the
known level and the meniscus at the other end was used to set the mark
on the profile.

Here is a little bit of sillyness; over here in Belgium an adjustable
spanner is known as an 'English Key' and a hammer is known as a
Belgian spanner.

Best

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Norman

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Sep 26, 2005, 6:35:06 AM9/26/05
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If you are wondering where the rest of the seven messages are, I have
deleted them. I have just found out that if you double click the post
button using Opera, it sends the message twice

Best

Drew

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Sep 26, 2005, 8:04:54 PM9/26/05
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Ah Norman, the ancient Egyptian method of getting things level although
plastic tubing was a little rare in those days.

Over here a spanner is called a spaniard, an engine is called an injin
and I tend to call screws screwsies -- a Bosnian mechanic I worked with
said "I need some screwsies". In Aberdeen (aka Aaeberdeen) I met
someone with a double ended adjustable spanner. Presumably one end was
metric.

Here's another smarty tip. Drilling holes in walls, mark with a
pencilled cross rather than a circle so you can see if the drill
wanders.

'Nother tip. Don't even think of cutting tiles by scribing and
snapping. Buy a cheap diamond disk tile cutter (<£40). You won't
regret it, but take the thing to bits first and accurately align the
blade to the guide otherwise it'll give you grief.

Best

Jerry

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Sep 28, 2005, 6:23:41 AM9/28/05
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On smooth surfaces putting a cross of masking tape on the wall before
starting to drill, helps prevent 'wandering'

Also using an undersized bit for the 'first cut' makes life a lot
easier.

Drew

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Sep 28, 2005, 9:21:20 PM9/28/05
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How about co-ax TV plugs. Most non-trade people cut the braid or unpick
it to get the inner out. You may have worked this out too -- cut the
outer insulation back a bit, spread the braid to make a hole near the
uncut outer, bend at the hole and waggle the centre insulated conductor
through.

Cement -- either buy expensive plasticisers of add just a tiny (really
tiny) squirt of washing up liquid. The aeration imparts frost cracking
resistance (and makes it much more runny).

Cutting stainless steel with a hacksaw, frequently wipe your fingers
down the blade. Clears the teeth and adds just a smidge of lube. Cuts
much better.

Plastering ceilings -- get someone else to do it!!!!!!

Best

Jerry

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Sep 29, 2005, 4:36:46 AM9/29/05
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When doing smallish brick laying jobs
Mix cement in a bucket using hands
(wear heavy duty gloves)

It saves a heck of a lot of mess, and faffing around, given that the
muck is going into a bucket anyway, one might as well start it off
there.

Drew

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Sep 29, 2005, 10:13:43 PM9/29/05
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C'mon Norman, words of wisdom.

Tubes of glue etc with all the contents down at the closed end, usually
because a wumin has squeezed the middle. Use a thin knurled tool, such
as a punch, rolled along the tube against a flat surface, then crimp up
the now empty end.

Best

Norman

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Oct 1, 2005, 11:11:06 AM10/1/05
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I am sure I know quite a few tricks but I can't think what they are,
it's just natural when I do them but bringing them to mind is
difficult.

If you are pushing me, here is one for tying the clove hitch which is
used for securing boats to moorings etc. Most people make two loops in
the rope or chord and place one behind the other which involves three
operations; make first loop; make second loop and place loops in line.
This can all be done in one operation as follows. Place chord in right
hand palm up and at the same time twist left hand so the palm is away
from the body with thumb pointing out (clockwise from on top, with
elbow out) and grip the same chord a bit further along. Twist both
hands through 180° (they will only go one way) in one motion, bringing
the right hand close to your body and the left hand in line with it but
further away and there is the hitch.

Best

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Norman

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Oct 1, 2005, 11:23:38 AM10/1/05
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Can't stop hitting the left mouse button twice I'm afraid. Habits of a
lifetime and all that.
Anyway I hope that this goes in as comment 11. Btw I have no problems
accessing our group in Opera but Firefox tells me I am not a member and
will either have to join or sign in. Interesting that this message must
be generated by the browser and not by Google.
I have just noticed that my colour has changed within the thread, it
never used to do this. Maybe I am confusing the poor beta with two
browsers?

Best

Norman

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Oct 1, 2005, 1:06:26 PM10/1/05
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In order to prevent the drill bit skidding when drilling a hole in the
wall, rev the drill up in the air and then let the speed fall almost to
zero. Just before it stops press the bit against the mark and it will
make the equivalent of a centre punch hole in the plaster which will
prevent the flat end of the bit waltzing across the wall before it
bites.

Best

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Drew

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Oct 1, 2005, 10:35:14 PM10/1/05
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Oh gawd I've got a bit of string here, contorting it. Think I'm
getting your drift. Course as an oldie engineer I can do clove hitches
with my eyes closed -- loom lacing. Bloody tie wraps these days,
ripping the skin off the back of your hands on the cut ends. Ah weel,
that's progress. So is Norman nautical? I was out in a wee boat a few
weeks ago on a fishing jaunt, just there for the ride. I did my best
bowline tying up. Not strangely, I do like knots, keep forgetting them
though.

And yes you have indeed done a Michael Jackson colour change.
Q. What do said MJ and Madonna have in common? Black roots. Har har.

Electric drill. No speed control on yours? I kinda do the same thing by
starting off at a trickle turn rate. Sometimes you want to have a good
tight little hole, (don't!) especially in Jerry type crumbly walls.
To get impeding dust out without further damage, insert a short piece
of thin plastic tubing to the bottom of the hole and blow. Then wash
the dust off your beard.

On the subject of beards, grow one before you pick brambles. The
obligatory attendant nettles can't then sting your face.

Back to holes, force tight rawlplugs home by tapping them with a screw
and a small hammer.

Favourite one for extracting objects from recesses, especially spark
plugs which you've dropped down beside a hot exhaust manifold. Thin
metal tube, old aluminium arrow shaft is ideal, with a doubled over
wire down the bore. Make a loop at one end which you can use to lasso
the object, then tighten the loop by pulling the wires at the hand end.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 2, 2005, 3:18:03 AM10/2/05
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Neat ones

When beardless, use silicon sealant to glue a mirror tile on the wall
in the shower.
It makes shaving less of a bore.

When bearded, do /not/ buy a Braun beard trimmer, the batteries die,
and the mechanism is lightweight.

Get a Remington hair trimmer, runs on the mains and is up to the job.

Drew

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Oct 2, 2005, 9:17:48 PM10/2/05
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Mmm, shaving in the shower. Good. But how do you prevent the mirror
misting up?

So in addition to Black & Decker, Hotpoint, Bosch, Roberts Radio and
Tefal, I shall add Braun. Getting short of options here :-)

Here's another shower tip. If it's a bath shower and it's clipped
on by a head height hook, buy and fit another hook lower down for the
convenience of bathers. My Pa prefers baths but has difficulty reaching
up so always mounts the shower head on the lower hook.

Another useful tip if you drink scrumpy -- write your name on the back
of your hand to give you a hint.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 3, 2005, 4:32:47 AM10/3/05
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Oddly, the mirror misting up is no problem
- running water clears that, plus a quick swipe with the hand.

The problem with the Braun beard trimmer is mainly to do with the
battery, NiCad and NMH have always given me problems.

Interesting point about shower hooks, a bit of a problem if the short
person cannot reach it if it is on the top hook :-}

Drew

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Oct 3, 2005, 9:30:01 PM10/3/05
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Whiskered NiCad, ie zero volts, short circuit. Flash across a car
battery very very briefly. Sometimes whaps the short circuit but
recharge immediately or the whickers regrow. Doesn't always work and
some NiCads include a crude fuse but nothing to lose.

Grouting. Ignore the instructions and slap it on in handfuls then
squeegee off. Polish off when almost dry with a slightly damp sponge.

Most useful item when cementing, tiling, plastering or grouting is a
big bucket of water for frequent washing of hands and tools. Old towels
too of course.

Plumbing. Torch then plunge copper pipes before bending. Re-anneal, if
required, when partly bent. You'll thank me for this one!

Ever made a throwing arrow? Goes for miles and impresses the hell out
of kids (and scares the s*** out of parents).

Best

Jerry

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Oct 4, 2005, 5:43:38 AM10/4/05
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I've heard about 'breaking the cat's whiskers', so that is how it is
done.

Yes, that grouting method is defininitely the trick, the grout is dirt
cheap anyway.

Similarly when repairing plaster cracks, a damp sponge does the trick
nicely. Some idiot removed a load bearing wall below my flat, so I got
a bit of experience in patching up mega-cracks.

I use a jam jar of water and wet fingers when applying exterior mastic
with a gun, very old clothes make a substitute for the old towels.

I like that pipe bending trick, to date I've always resorted to
pre-soldered joints.

Nope, I've never made one of those arrows, they sound like some form of
sling shot.
I did have a Masai spear that my father brought back from Kenya ...

Drew

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Oct 5, 2005, 8:57:47 PM10/5/05
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Yes, plaster cracks. As you mentioned before, acrylic is now available
and formulated for this express purpose. Of course it might just be
standard acrylic with different logo and a 50p added on for good
measure, but I used it on my bedroom walls a few weeks ago and it seems
to do the biz. As you say, a sponge would have been good. Next time. Is
there more to the 'retaining wall' story or are you loathed to
relive it?

Think the Masai spears were just thrown, but many places they used
levers for more range. Tis indeed a variation on the sling shot.
Simplest method (which I use) is just make up an arrow with bamboo,
splitting the tail for the flights and tying off to hold them in place.
Arrange for one of the growing notches to be just in front of the
flights and get a bit of strong string about a foot longer than the
arrow. Knot one end of the string and wrap it once round the shaft just
behind the notch. Keeping tension on the string lying along the shaft
keeps the string in position. Wrap the free end of the string round
your hand so that it is tight at a length where you can hold the arrow
between thumb and fingers near the tip. All you then do is throw
mightily and release the arrow at the end of the throw as normal, but
follow through. Leverage action sends it several times further than
without the string. If you've never actually seen it, you'll be
quite amazed. Let me know if you do it.
Some places in the world (Aus I think) used a notched piece of wood as
the lever -- lots of scrubby wood, not a lot of string.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 6, 2005, 5:06:59 AM10/6/05
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Those arrows sound thoroughly evil :-}

Mostly those Masai spears were used for stabbing, and sticking in the
ground like a stake, my one was incredibly heavy, probably made from
something like a lorry spring.

It was also extremely well made.

The load bearing wall nightmare was the result of two severe outbreaks
of Dry Rot. Nowadays one just uses a systemic killer, but in those
days it was necessary to strip back to brickwork and apply highly toxic
substances.

The woman whose flat was partially below me employed some idiot crooks,
and they willingly /removed/ the wall 'supporting' the structure above
with Acros.

Since the whole lot of them were highly unstable, I decided that
physical intervention was literally dangerous - there was no way I was
going to take on three large builders with crowbars and hammers.

Interestingly the woman committed a mortgage fraud and disappeared to
Canada shortly afterwards.

She also nicked all our circuit breakers.

The police were very interested in £100 worth of circuit breaker, but
not interested in a £60,000 fraud.

Norman

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Oct 6, 2005, 1:27:31 PM10/6/05
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I am definitely going to have a go at those throwing arrows. Almost
said they were right up my street.

After suffering the unpleasant condition of grouty finger I conducted
experiments in clorping it on and agree that this is the best method
but if you mix too much it tends to dry out and make little pits
between the tiles.

A colleague of my Dad's in the 60's had a running battle with the
council over his flat which had a falling corner in one room. He
claimed it was unsafe and they saw it otherwise. In the end he knocked
out a couple of courses of bricks in the offending area, bridged it
with a plank and held it up with a car jack. It got fixed but they were
not best pleased.

Wrt your fraud story Jerry; I think the owners of the crime figures
show the most interest in their particular bit. Obviously the fraud
figures were not the responsibility of local plod.

Best.

Drew

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Oct 6, 2005, 8:44:05 PM10/6/05
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I wish you much fun with throwing arrows, and yes as you say they can
be thoroughly evil, especially if tipped with a nail.

Few years ago I got a bill from a debt recovery company for a trivial
amount in respect of an unpaid electricity bill, less than a tenner I
think. Thing is, the bill was paid by direct debit. Smelling a rat, I
checked up on the agency's web page which looked decidedly dodgy, no
contact address or even email. A few people would just pay up but it
looked all wrong so I phoned up plod and asked to be put through to the
fraud squad. Front desk told me to go away and bother Citizens Aid
instead. I tried to explain that this had all the hallmarks of a scam
but they just weren't interested. One might be tempted to suppose
that £60,000 would attract their attention but hey, they're only
sub-human.

>grouty finger
>clorping
:-) :-)

Acros are super though ain't they -- if used reasonably
intelligently. Long two car length garage / shed off the drive had over
the years taken a decidedly drunken aspect due to heavy cable on pole
to the roof, persistent West winds and wood rot. Cranked it straight
with an Acro, dug in the cable, fixed the woodwork, added buttresses
and asked God to do something about the wind. Thank you British Gas for
the Acro which you couldn't be bothered retrieving. While I'm at it
I'd also like to deeply thank the previous owner of the muckle great
Stillson left it in the middle of the road not a mile from here.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 7, 2005, 5:23:50 AM10/7/05
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That was a very astute point about the crime figures.

Actually, plod was mostly interested in whether I had been sh*gging the
blasted woman, while she had a remarkable body, she had the personality
of a viper.

Strange thing was I got a panic stricken call at work from the couple
in the top flat, about six months later, they said they had seen her
leaving the bottom flat, and were terrified that she might have
arranged a bonfire.

Before she left the first time, she put an arrangement of eggs, bacon
and kippers under the floorboards, fortunately I had got the place so
well ventilated that they were dessicated when I eventually found them.

I came back home and 'effected entry', amazing what one can do with a
cat flap, bamboo and an 18" square window. As a precaution I changed
the locks, and informed plod, who were remarkably uninterested.

I'm more a master of demolition than construction, it is amazing how
easy it is to pull down a chimney stack, just rip out the bottom and it
all falls in.

Drew

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Oct 7, 2005, 8:49:10 PM10/7/05
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Nice to see that plod home in immediately on the pertinent points. I
find local plod seem little concerned for local break-ins, even when
large amounts of dosh have been misappropriated. There must be some
sort of deficient gene pool from which they crawl out.

This really does sound like a remarkably deranged wumin though, even
for a wumin. You could partly get your own back by dishing the dirt of
her name :-) Tell us anyway.

I got locked out recently and found I could effect entry by the cat
flap too, managed to get my arm up to the key. Since then I've looked
at other flaps and reckoned I could get in them too. One night, few
years ago I arranged to meet some people in Ayr local radio. Ghastly
mid-Atlantic t*ssers but the late night folk show was good. Locked door
and the bell didn't work but it was easy enough getting to the key
through the letter box. Makes ya wonder.....

Hope no one objects if I hijack the theme back to topic -- this one is
good :-
Clagged up thread holes, particularly in engine casings but other times
too. Either rust of a bit of mashed ally thread and the bolt isn't
happy going in. If you haven't got a tap, slice a couple of sharp
slots in the last few threads of the bolt with a hacksaw, slightly
spiralled so the bolt head doesn't obstruct the hacksaw. Wind the
bolt in till it begins to jam then remove it and clean out the slots
either with finger-nail or hacksaw blade. Continue until it runs
smoothly in.
My bike has a couple of large diameter, fine thread bolts holding the
swinging arm pivots. Threads went solid on me but this little trick did
the biz.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 8, 2005, 7:10:32 AM10/8/05
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You're spot on there, she was a real nutter
Her name was Alison Bi**icks - replace *'s with s's

Fortunately I've seen nothing of her for over 15 years

There is definitely something peculiar about plod, around 10% I've met
are absolutely fine, the rest are either predatory or thick - or both.

It is interesting what one can do with Yale type locks through a letter
box or a cat flap, which is why I have a hulking great Victorian bolt
...

Neat trick making a thread cutter out of a bolt.

I detest things like studs, and used to replace them with bolts and
nuts where ever possible. Also replace any screw or Philips headed
bolts with Allen key type bolts.

Mixing materials (like steel bolts into aluminium) is just asking for
trouble. The problem is, doing things properly adds 1% to
manufacturing costs...

Another tip I picked up from a very old time mechanic, he was in his
70's when I was a kid, is to add a little fine hard wood (mahogony)
sawdust to the oil of something with suspicious main bearings.

A strictly pre-sale trick.
Interestingly he would never say Duckhams without spitting.

Drew

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Oct 8, 2005, 8:53:30 PM10/8/05
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Desmodromic valve gear. I invented it, just forty years too late. Wish
I'd patented my active suspension notion in the sixties. I believe F1
cars use pneumatics for their valve gear but can't work that one out.

Yup, Triumphs were fine to work on. Was in amongst a Herald a few years
back, just a carb problem. Old girlfriend had a Vitesse, now there was
a scary beast (the car, not her -- well come to think of it...).
Straight six, good for a ton, and steering geometry borrowed from a
river barge. Last Brit car with a real chassis was it not.

What's wrong with Duckhams?

Best

Jerry

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Oct 9, 2005, 3:41:03 AM10/9/05
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Desmodromic - thats the one
- surprizing it is not more widely used.

I've read something about a UK company that has an elctro magnetic
valve system, they were involved with some deal with Powertrain, the
engine bit of Rover.

The Vitesse was lethally overpowered, I smacked up one belonging to a
friend kicking it out of a roundabout - since then I've been a lot more
cautious flattening the accelerator on a car that I've not tried out
properly.

I expect there were a few later Brtitish cars with a chassis, but they
would have been 'exotics'.

Ticky - the old time mechanic just said it was p*ss
- I expect he had some bad experiences with it.

Drew

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Oct 9, 2005, 8:25:12 PM10/9/05
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Desmo is good, but a bit more expensive and four valves tend to negate
the advantages. Road bikes need auxiliary springs too so all gets a bit
complex. Lot to be said for hydraulic followers, now almost universal
in cars. Basically, lubricant and metallurgy technology is now so good
that many work-arounds have become redundant I guess.

Ah yes, fond memories of the Vitesse :-) Quite sought after these days.

Best

Norman

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Oct 10, 2005, 9:08:16 AM10/10/05
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Ah Triumphs!

The scariest ride I ever had was with a mate who had a TR6 with
overdrive on 2nd gear. He kicked it into a tight roundabout in 2nd
foot hard down and then flicked overdrive in when halfway round and the
whole thing got a boost up the bum. I thought "I hope the IRS and low
C of G keeps everything where it should be when he comes out of this.
That's when I got a healthy respect for British engineering. After
that I got a TR5 but without the overdrive. There were only 1300 ever
made and was a hybrid because the TR6 body was not ready for launch
date so to keep everything moving in the factory they put the 2.5
injection engine into the 4A body shell and that became the TR5 and the
TR5 became the TR6. I ran that until the fuel injection went wonky and
I was getting 6 - 8 mpg. I got the turner in the workshops to make me
some specialised tools to sort the injection out but other things got
in the way like getting divorced and having the car plus two spare
engines plus three spare gearboxes sold without me knowing about it and
the money stuffed into Mrs. bank account.
When the injection worked well it was a flying machine. It was not like
modern half arsed injection where the fuel is squirted into the inlet
manifold and aspirated in; it was more like diesel, injected directly
into the pot but if the fuel timing and the ignition timing got out of
sync it was a real ball breaker to sort out. The other bad thing on
them was that it had trunions instead of kingpins on the bottom
suspension arm but without a grease nipple inset so that over time the
grease went solid and friction stripped the threads. Fortunately they
always failed when turning with the highest torque which was at about
5mph. I am not sure about the 7 but all the other TR's had chassis.
That was a swing down Memory Lane.
I remember the Herald's also, you used to take the front end off and
sit on the wheel to fix the engine.

I once found a group of guys who had an interesting thing going but too
late for me to join in unfortunately. There were about ten of them and
they had 15 - 20 cars between them. At the time they were regarded as
gas guzzling old bangers but now they would be historic; S type
Jag's; Austin Princess; MG TC etc They had a group type insurance
between them and had a different limo to impress their totty with for
every night of the week.

I shall certainly remember that thread cleaning trick though, that is a
good one.
One trick I have done many times over is fixing a punctured radiator
with Plastic Padding. Find out where the hole is, dry the radiator out
and 'clorp' the paste through from one side to the other. It is not
a temporary job either. It is not aesthetically pleasing but it will
last for years. I once fixed the outer drum of a washing machine the
same way. The guy gave me the machine because it was dripping water on
the motor and then wanted it back when he saw it was fixed but I just
told him he had bought some experience.

I can't work out pneumatic valve returns either, the adiabatic
compression would cause a serious heat build up.

Best

Norman

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Oct 10, 2005, 11:14:48 AM10/10/05
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Just had a wierdo in Opera.
I logged into the group and got the 'You are not a member' screen,
went through the procedure and got a loading message which just hung
- several times; so I went into GA signed in there without a hitch
and back to the group. I think it would be smart if someone sorted this
out.

Best

Drew

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Oct 10, 2005, 9:16:39 PM10/10/05
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Ah, at last Norman's true colours are revealed -- a Triumph owner pub
bore :-) Seems like I missed out on some of Triumph's chequered
production. Tragic stuff. Don't quite follow the 2nd gear overdrive,
or at all actually. How did that thing work? Nice to hear that they had
direct injection, even if they couldn't make it last. Think there's
a Jap car on the market with direct now but I share your uugghh at the
usual system of throw some fuel in the manifold and let it hang about
there till it's sucked in. Can't be mega efficient.

So she sold your gearboxes, shirly you applied some interesting
retaliation. Not on the Christmas card list?

Wonder if Plastic Padding would work on modern rads. Better than the
egg trick? Paper thin ally so welding is impossible, plastic too. At
least they ain't too expensive but any Rover over five years old is
in the running for a new one. Washing machines though, just had a cold
shudder down my back.

Hadn't actually considered the heating of compressed air, more I was
confused by the compressibility of the medium. Dunno. I'll have a web
hunt I think 'cos that bit in the back of my brain for 'things to
know before I die' is too crammed.

More Opera weirdoes. Must be one of these modern composers. Software,
permanently beta. Just formatted a hard disk (FAT32) using an XP boot
floppy 'cos I was suspicious about 98 handling the size. Comes up
with some very helpful and incomprehensible instructions for good
things you should do with obscure files, then at the end it says
"Good luck." Not thoroughly confidence inspiring.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 11, 2005, 5:55:16 AM10/11/05
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I vaguely remember that the smart trick with the TR6 was to trash the
PI and put in carbs.

That's the problem with cutting edge technology

I did not realize that they had overdrive on 2nd, very interesting in
effect a clutchless change up into 3rd.

One thing I did learn was not to put Molyslip or STP into a gearbox
with an overdrive unit - it used to take ages to cut in....

My father had a Royal Enfield, one of his brothers was 18 years older
and had got hold of an engineering company. One thing they were
developing was an exhaust scavenger, and they gave one to my father.

He used to have great fun pulling up next to a speed freek in a sports
car, reaching down to flick the switch and taking off like a rocket.

Unfortunately it used to get clogged with carbon, and had to be
disassembled and cleaned monotonously regularly.

Norman

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Oct 11, 2005, 2:27:13 PM10/11/05
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Yeh, too right not on the Christmas card list anymore. One of the spare
engines was manifolded up with twin SU's and the plan was to drop
that in whilst I sorted out the injection; still, the best laid plans
(how does it end Drew). And hey, if you think Triumph guys are boring
you should try an AC owners meeting sometime, all their names seem to
end with Henry.

The egg trick never worked for me, always squirted the thing out before
it set, thinking about it I probably should have taken the rad cap off
to reduce the pressure to give it a fair chance of setting at the
extrusion point before the fan distributed it. The Plastic Padding
trick is a gem though. Tried it with the liquid monomer and hardener
also but it definitely needs the paste to make this trick work. I had a
mate once who used the liquid monomer with double hardener to set fence
posts rigid in a couple of minutes, more expensive than cement but when
time is money.

Yes I also can't understand the logic of compressed air valve returns
either - weird science.

Best

Drew

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Oct 11, 2005, 8:30:11 PM10/11/05
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You may recall, some Enfields had a neutral lever. Dead useful with
sequential boxes but the innovation died with Enfield. Some Triumphs
had a 'slick-shift' on the gear lever which actuated the clutch at
the same time. It too died with the old parallel twin. Such is
progress.

Guzzi owners can be a mite dull too. The term 'big bore' has the
alternative meaning of referring to a guy I met in Applecross at a
marque weekend. Chap knew absolutely every obscure minutia but droned
on and on and on in *that* English train-spotter accent. Dull, my god
was he dull. Slapped over the head with a piggin ugly stick too.
Guessing he was a virgin. Think he was called Henry.

best laid plans
Rabbie's the maun! 'Gang aft agley'.
And as said before there are still those in this area who can read the
dialect nae tother a ba. Of course there are also these in this area
who greet each other with "Gimmie six."

Re my smatrypants tip of a tube with a loop of string or wire through
it, my sister who answers to the affectionate appellation of
'slapper' might have found it useful today had she known about it.
She does now!
Parked her car briefly in town on her way here. Couple of baying hounds
in the car (one of which *must* be Santa's Little Helper's sister)
so she didn't bother taking the key out of the ignition. Left a
window slightly open of course but she hadn't appreciated dog's
mastery over the door lock system. Unfortunately dog had only mastered
half of the procedure. One hour later, the assistance of Girvan's
kind people and a bunch of bent strips of metal later.......

Best

Norman

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Oct 12, 2005, 4:07:22 AM10/12/05
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The little darlings might be mans best friend but they don't seem to
be your sisters.
The item recovery trick which I'm sure was invented by a sadist is
the semi springy shaft with the magnet on the end; just when you are
holding your tongue in your cheek and trying not to breath too hard and
are about to grab the item off the end doesn't it disengage itself
and find a new hiding place that is totally inaccessible.

Best

Message has been deleted

Jerry

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Oct 12, 2005, 8:56:12 AM10/12/05
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Hmm

I once met an elderly and supposedly respectable lady, who advised me
to keep all celluloid shirt collar packing, as they are so useful for
opening car doors.

It struck a chord as a few years before I had locked my car keys in, at
a German airport.

The next day I returned with tools to craftily remove the windscreen,
but it cracked and I lost my rag.

The amazing thing was that an English guy was standing on the bonnet of
a car, swearing, crying with rage and pain, tearing out the windscreen
of a car with a small hammer and bare hands.

Nobody batted an eyelid.

Drew

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Oct 12, 2005, 7:30:21 PM10/12/05
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Indeed Norman. I however use quality rare earth magnets which can suck
the iron out of haemoglobin. And my source? Old hard drives. If
you've never taken one to bits I warn you that you can do
considerable pain to fingernails when caught between two of them.
(Usually need a set of miniature torx bits to dissemble BTW). Other
valuable use is as a temporary clamp on suitable ferrous substrate.
Last weekend I was doing a little job of rescuing metal plates which
needed four more holes for an NCR job. Made up a drilling template out
of 20 gauge mild sheet and held it in place by a bunch of these
magnets, the 'power' being such that the field saturated the mild
steel and penetrated rather effectively to the other side. Other super
use is as welding clamps. Used to use superglue but magnets are far
better. Doesn't matter if they get wasted because there is an endless
supply!

I have visions, Jerry, of the priceless scene in Fawlty Towers of John
Cleese thrashing his car. Did you perchance utter the phrase "Why me
god!?" What's worse, you then found out how uncomfortable it is to
drive a car without a windscreen.

Best

Norman

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Oct 13, 2005, 12:42:27 PM10/13/05
to Brainstormings
I didn't think that magnets and data storage went together, I obviously
stand erected. I have a couple of 3 Gig hard drives hicking about
somewhere that I can take to bits although it's sometimes interesting
to see what stuff you were saving five years ago.

What's worse, you then found out how uncomfortable it is to
drive a car without a windscreen.
I thought that's what rubber goggles were for ;-) and don't forget the
yellow scarf.

Best

Message has been deleted

Drew

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Oct 13, 2005, 9:59:07 PM10/13/05
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You know, it was only after I wrote last night that it did occur to me
the proximity of the recording medium to those magnets. Presumably this
occurred to the designers quite early in the design stage. So strong
are they though that they'll stick to each other through your hand
(with certain physical assumptions). Some are bonded to doglegged bits
of iron so not quite as useful but they hacksaw off easy enough. Wrap a
small plastic bag (or Marigolds) round the magnet first so you can
remove the filings.
One small disadvantage of rare earth mags is they rust readily.
Sometimes lacquered for protection but most I've found in HDs are
plated. Have fun.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 14, 2005, 5:07:40 AM10/14/05
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I too am intrigued by the idea of powerful magnets in a hard disk.

To be honest I can't remember what it was like driving that car without
its windscreen, but I was used to bikes at the time, so it probably was
not that bad.

Drew

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Oct 14, 2005, 10:16:10 PM10/14/05
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Always surprised me that many adverts for HDs show the internals. Must
be some dumb sucker out there who removed the cover to make it look
like the picture. Long time ago I actually took one to bits to fix it.
Huge beast it was, 1gig -- well it was huge at the time. Looked to me
like there was an open circuit in one of the connections so I wheeched
off the cover, found a loose wire, dabbed it with solder and slapped it
back together pronto. Worked! Not exactly clean room conditions but I
took the precaution of letting my roll-up go out first. Some disks have
sticky stuff inside to clean up micro dust so it was probably OK. Yea
I'm a pervert, but hey, now't to lose.
So in addition to terrorising the neighbourhood with throwing arrows,
you'll be grubbing around in HDs to extract seriously attractive
magnets. I feel kinda responsible, like I'm a bad influence. Mmmm.

Great thing about being in a deadly mood is you tend not to notice
slight annoyances, such as a seventy mile per hour gale in your face.
Me though, I'm a woose, had fairings on bikes for thirty years.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 15, 2005, 4:51:18 AM10/15/05
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You certainly have got me interested in poking around inside a hard
disk - those extra strong magnets sound very interesting.

As it happens, I do have one defunct drive, but it is sitting inside my
favourite box, and I detest opening that up.

Oddly I never had a fairing, Belstaff (?) trousers and a knackered
Irvine sheepskin and a full face helmet. Often the visor had to be up,
especially at night.

Norman

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Oct 15, 2005, 2:58:38 PM10/15/05
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Apart from a few rag top cars, I only experienced the thrill of wind on
the face one time as far as I can remember. My father was driving
behind a lorry with two wheels on each half shaft when a brick that was
lodged between the tyres suddenly landed in his lap. I think the sound
of the implosion was the most frightening thing. I took him to the
hospital to have his eyes checked for glass shards but all was ok.
Both scary and windy.

Best

Drew

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Oct 15, 2005, 7:35:32 PM10/15/05
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Needless to say, the mega magnets are for the 'voice coil' drive
system for the arms. You'll certainly find them easily enough! Disks
are a good source of miniature ball-races too if that's your thang
and the platters make an attractive alternative to CD plant pot
coasters. As I said though, you'll almost definitely need mini torx
drivers.

I always favoured leather jackets and waterproofs over Belstaff but the
latter do make a lot of sense. Wear a two piece most times but I need a
jacket for brief trips to town and around. Time for a new one 'cos
it's just plain knackered, but can I find anything decent! Just want
a plain red jacket, styled like the ones you used to get but they are
*all* hideous now. I don't want to look like I'm going to a race
track, arms permanently fixed in gorilla position, padding like
tug-boat buffers. I WANT A PLAIN JACKET. Apparently the only source is
custom made. Nothing retro about me, just never moved on from where I
was happy.

And Norman, you've just described one of the bikers ten commandments
(though there are far more than ten). Never sit in line with dual
wheels on a truck.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 16, 2005, 5:43:38 AM10/16/05
to Brainstormings
@Norman
Sounds like you and your father were both very lucky.

Personally I'm always nervous of trucks
- their brakes are too good, things fall off them and they lose chunks
of rubber.

@Drew
Interesting that you can't find a jacket, I've been told that Glasgow
is pretty good for 'non trendy' shopping.

The Belstaff trousers were only used for long wet trips, even with them
I often got so cold that I resembled a total eunuch.

A mate of mine once had a coffee table made from the platter of an old
mainframe - beautifully balanced.

Drew

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Oct 16, 2005, 7:27:16 PM10/16/05
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Oh what a slur on bonnie Glasgae -- albeit somewhat true. I trust you
have been spared association with 'neds'. But this raises a bigger
question, can a true statement be emotive? Bothered me for thirty years
that has, point being that if the statement is true, to perceive
absolutely is to perceive objectively. Absolute objectivity is divorced
from that which can give rise to emotion, that being a subjective
thing. So can a true statement be emotive?

After today's blat, presently trying to extricate gonads from
internal recesses. They *must* be in there somewhere but can't think
where else to look.

Best

Norman

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Oct 17, 2005, 7:34:32 AM10/17/05
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It is similar in England also Drew. I have heard it said that what
Worcestershire does today, Hereford might get round to in ten years
time.

Yes, isn't language a wonderful thing. Synchronistically, I have also
thought on this question from time to time. I also wish I knew more
than one language really well, but that is another thing.

I believe that within the bald words in which the truth is contained
there is a dichotomy of social implications. Never having seen you, I
can say this with impunity. If we were in a social group and I suddenly
said "Drew, you have a whopping great nose", whilst that may be the
truth and a fact against which nothing can be argued, you might resent
the social implication that I perceived you as different from other
people and therefore placed you outside the group. If you accept that
hippies, who claimed to be individual, also had an unofficial uniform
then I think your pink leathers whilst being necessary protection also
makes a statement that you don't give a toss about contributing to
current convention so you might not be offended by this.

I will give you another example that I witnessed recently. Somebody
bought one of these high visibility jackets, (the ones that slip over
your normal coat and are often worn by construction and emergency
service personnel,) for one of the grand kids for the trek to and from
school. Mother tried it on the kid and dismissed it with the words
"It's too big" and that was that and on to the next subject. The
person who bought it had their thoughtfulness and love for the
youngster just put down without a second thought. There was no "She
is a bit small for it just yet but I think she will be ready for it by
next term. Do they do them in a smaller size"? "It was really nice
of you to think of her". Instead she spoke the truth and left the
person who had bought it feeling a bit shitty and wondering why they
had bothered in the first place. So, to answer your question, I do
think the same set of words can be simultaneously viewed objectively
and subjectively.

It is a long time since I have heard of gronads. ;-)


Best

Drew

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Oct 17, 2005, 9:23:59 PM10/17/05
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Unfortunately (or perhaps not) I am not familiar with English county
subtleties, apart from Essex of course. Strange reaction I get down
here when I mention Edinburgh. Not quite sure if it is genuine distaste
or some sort of ingrained inferiority. Maybe you can relate to similar
things in the Liverpool region?

Very interested to hear that you too (Norman) have pondered this rather
abstract point. Hope Jerry comments 'cos it's more his area of
interest and deep thought than mine. I did discuss the quandary with my
philosophy lecturer sometimes-girlfriend (who I have mentioned before)
many years ago but she couldn't really do much with it. Think
that's a bit telling! I follow of course your reasoning, and can't
disagree, but how about if the truth statement is extrapolated to the
infinite, hence extending way beyond the social condition. Say one was
to say "the world will end some day", you can't get much bigger
truth than that and since it embodies a hell of a lot of potentially
emotive content it would not be unreasonable to expect it would really
upset people. Doesn't though. Even if you take it closer to home and
say "you are going to die some day" it is met with a shrug. These
are true statements and are understood as true. So is it the
comprehension of the truth, or is it the appreciation of unavoidable
inevitability which strips the statement of emotion. In either case,
what's the difference between they and my big nose? (Actually it's
not *that* appendage which is oversized).
Any further thunks?

Best

PS. I keep thinking about the "It's too big" jacket example. It
just won't fall into concordance but I don't know why. Something is
missing......... bugger. Never had trouble with wave / particle
duality, perhaps it could be resolved from quantum mechanics mindset.

Norman

unread,
Oct 18, 2005, 9:13:20 AM10/18/05
to Brainstormings
Drew Wrote:
"Strange reaction I get down
here when I mention Edinburgh. Not quite sure if it is genuine distaste

or some sort of ingrained inferiority. Maybe you can relate to similar
things in the Liverpool region"?

A hoity toity woman from Wallesy (on the other side of the river), said
to a Liverpool scrubber "Over here we place all our emphasis on a
person's breeding".
To which the scrubber replied "On our side of the river we devote
some of our time to other activities".

Unless Bubba and Bin do something precipitate (stupid) I don't think
the world will end in our lifetime so it is not a problem that the
world has to immediately address. There is always the Enterprise for
those who are left after the next war.
People in general, I believe fear the moment of death but they don't
fear being dead. Such a big problem is more in the area of metaphysics;
I would have thought it would have been right up your sometimes's
street. Ask her what Leibniz would have said on such matters and then
ask if she agrees with the answer.

Perhaps we should ask Hr. Schrödinger for an interpretation of the big
jacket problem. The fact that he is dead just gives the problem a neat
cohesiveness.

Best

Jerry

unread,
Oct 18, 2005, 9:24:13 AM10/18/05
to Brainstormings
There was a guy called Freddy Ayers who wrote a book called 'Language
Truth and Logic'

It was great for dissection and ridicule, especially as one of my pals
had a window that overlooked his, and would invite people to watch him
tupping his secretary every Wednesday .. or was it Tuesday.

You are touching on an area of philosophy called 'Sceptism' - crudely
put - 'How do I know I am not dreaming ?'

Sam Johnson reportedly kicked a stone and said 'I refute it thus'
In fact I reckon he kicked the other guy's ankle
- the 'refutation' would be a lot more memorable.

I deemed it wise to give up philosophy in my second year, when it
became obvious to me that I was on a totally different wavelength from
my tutors.
They wanted regurgitation of what people said
- I wanted to analyze /why/ they said what they said

The killer was Descarte's proof for the existence of god - written in
French and paid for by the Vatican.
A superb bit of circular logic, that would have had the non politically
correct reeling in the aisles, yet would make the politically correct
hoist themselves by their own petards if they did not agree with it.

Similarly I had to give up Industrial Economics when faced with a
female tutor who found it interesting that some so called savant should
write: 'It is always possible that some industrial workers enjoy the
change of industrial unrest'

90% of academics are jerks
- I used to call them 'refugees from the real World'
- sitting in their Ivory Dungeons

I think the mother involved in that rather cruel exchange witnessed by
Norman, was slightly autistic - or perhaps malign.
Certainly tactless.
Motive is very interesting.

When it comes to 'facts' like the Sun rises at 6am generally I find it
more pragmatic to regard such statements as 'premises' - rather like an
(accepted) brief from a client - like this system must run on WinXP.

Hmm... I've just thought of a new idea for Drew's breakaway Chapter
The Groucho Bike H..... ?
Or even
the Oxymorons - now that would be .. amusing

Curiously, Norman, I've found that social 'groupings' are less about
similarity, but more about functional dissimilarity. It is a bit odd,
but it is like people wearing different uniforms gently testing ideas.

Norman

unread,
Oct 18, 2005, 11:02:48 AM10/18/05
to Brainstormings
90% of academics are jerks
- I used to call them 'refugees from the real World'
- sitting in their Ivory Dungeons
This is an old truism: Those who can do; those who can't teach.
The trouble with being able to think for yourself is that they may come
to realise by osmosis that you are smarter than them.

I think the mother involved in that rather cruel exchange witnessed by
Norman, was slightly autistic - or perhaps malign.
Certainly tactless.
Motive is very interesting.

Curiously, deep down 'mother' has a heart of gold and really comes
shining through at the most unexpected times. Yes certainly tactless,
brusque, opens her mouth before she puts her brain into gear and
doesn't care who gets hurt unless they kick back in which case she
does some serious back-peddling. A strange mix, but hey, she is only 24
going on 14; by the time she is 40 she will be through adolescence.

When it comes to 'facts' like the Sun rises at 6am generally.....
Sorry this has to come in a sort of logic discussion but the sun
doesn't go anywhere, it is the Earth that dips down. Secretly, I
realised you already knew that...what was that about nobody liking
someone who is too clever by half?

The GBH's and the Oxymorons - I like it!
What about the Colostomy Knievel's.

I couldn't agree more on your observations on social groupings. What
I have also noticed is that everybody talks about the one who isn't
there. I always took it as a compliment that they had something to say
about me.

Best.

Jerry

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Oct 18, 2005, 3:04:39 PM10/18/05
to Brainstormings
Gottit - one of the step-kids of kid (mother)
- sh*tting on your lass

Devious ways of tackling that

>From experience, probably the best way is to get L. and Grandchild to
spend time together - ostensibly apologizing for the ill fitting
jacket.

Wimmin like shopping.

If I read things correctly, your discomfort zone is the retard
daughter.

No problem.
Avuncular care and Grandmotherly affection can do remarkable things for
kids - for a start respect from others breeds self respect.

Take a back stand, and send them shopping together
- you can program her with phrases like 'Smart Girls Float'

As a kid, I had the mother from Hell, and fortunately got hijacked by
initially my Grandmother and latterly my Uncle and Aunt (who were much
older)
- motivation, arrogance and self esteem

Get in there Norman ... do what you reckon is right

Drew

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Oct 18, 2005, 8:56:46 PM10/18/05
to Brainstormings
I shall try and remember the 'breeding' story, for regurgitation
with a local flavour :-)

Spose I could probe more Leibniz by proxy but I fear little light would
be shed. As Jerry says, philosophers spend a lifetime examining and
interpreting what philosophers have said and as far as I can tell never
get to the (intended?) point of working anything out. My dear friend
has just finished her second book on the man, bless, but WHY! Not as if
he said much of consequence other than calculus which she has no
interest in whatsoever, and as for monads, built on sand with the
premise of deity. So I guess 'truth' remains unresolved. Presume
you read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance', what a pile
of keech that was.

>social 'groupings' are less about similarity, but more about functional dissimilarity

Mmmm, that's rather good. In fact it's very good........

Tickled by your bike club name suggestions, only thing missing is it
really needs a catchy acronym though, such as Cyclists Übermensch Not
Totally Senile.

Best

Jerry

unread,
Oct 19, 2005, 10:37:03 AM10/19/05
to Brainstormings
There is another one,
Those who can't teach, teach
Those who can't teach teachers, teach teachers

Once I saw Mary Warnock, Harry Judge and another illustrious savant
pontificating.

MW reckoned it was a good idea for all kids to learn a second language
(what about a first one ?)

Harry J. was famous for his nocturnal activities, he kept a room in a
house where some of my friends lived - and always carried his totty
upstairs.
Oddly a key to his room fell into the wrong hands, I once crashed out
there :-}

The amazing thing is that the shower dictated education policy from the
mid 1960s until ...

Perhaps a reversed acronym would be intereresting
- STNUC no .. STIHS ...

Message has been deleted

Norman

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Oct 19, 2005, 6:10:34 PM10/19/05
to Brainstormings
The best I could come up with, thinking about it for five minutes was:
Federation of Unsavoury Colostomy Knievels and Upchucking Putrid
Scramblers.

Btw, did you know that the F word started life as a legal term? If you
didn't I will tell you how it came into being, you can amaze your
bro.
Did you catch him with the inland thing?

Almost spot on Jerry but on this particular occasion it was directed
against her sister.
When I first came to Belgium I got a job in a neighbouring town and she
ran me there and picked me up of an evening for about two to three
months so she isn't all bad. The problem is that she is a profiteer
and will take advantage from most situations. Usually silly things like
calling and letting the phone ring twice before ringing off so you will
call her back and have her call on your cost. It just spoils all the
good she does and when I put my wife's nose on these things she is in
a position of divided loyalties and often adopts a more relaxed
approach to prevent being disadvantaged with the grand kids which
somewhat irritates me. As I have said before, a bit naive and
unthinking but, ach - relationships! You should be able to rise above
these things.

MW reckoned it was a good idea for all kids to learn a second language
(what about a first one ?)

She probably meant the native one after they had learned Bad.

I will tell you a story about mnemonics. Things are so busy in the fast
food joints in New York they resort to abbreviations for almost
everything. H & E is ham and eggs etc. A guy visiting couldn't catch
the waitress's eye so as she was dashing past the table he shouted at
the top of his voice "BALLS".
"What" she queried somewhat taken aback.
"Bacon and Lambs Liver Sandwich" said he
"Oh" she replied "CUNT"
"What"?
"Cut & Un-Toasted"?
"Yeh"
A few minutes later it appeared, he took one bite, threw it down on the
plate and shouted "SHIT"
"What SHIT"
"Should've Had It Toasted"

Best

Drew

unread,
Oct 19, 2005, 9:33:21 PM10/19/05
to Brainstormings
A second language (and a first) would indeed be desirable. It is more
than a little embarrassing talking with foreigners who annunciate
English better than natives. Of course language is a dynamic thing, but
in what would appear to be some misbegotten PC agenda, more prominence
is given to inner city bastardisation than to language which doesn't
require a crash course in grunting to comprehend. Would it not be
desirable to raise everyone to the highest standard rather than drag
everyone down to LCD. (Hurt me back, feeling girny).

Re hurt back, just strained by moving 3 hundredweight of door step
which I'm replacing, since this topic is smarty pants tips, any
advice on cement / sand ratio for new doorstep?

Still tickled by the bike club tips. Made me laugh -- and hurt my back.
Thanks!

No Norman I am not aware of the F word roots. Please do elucidate. And
no, bro didn't know about Inland Revenue, and feigned slight
disinterest. But he's right into 'Master & Commander' type stuff
and rarely misses an opportunity to bend ears with his vast knowledge
of this (and many other fascinating topics). So by now he will have
researched and slid it into bar conversation, doubtless to the rapture
of the recipients.

I question the provenance of your story Norman :-) As for the wumin
story, "Can't live with them, can't live with them."

Best

Jerry

unread,
Oct 20, 2005, 5:36:54 AM10/20/05
to Brainstormings
I too am intrigued by the derivation of F*ck

Family can be a right pain, my sister in law has been feeding my rather
stupid mother with utter poison about me and I can't figure out which
of the three or possibly four motives are behind it.

Have you tried talking directly to the lass ?
Sometimes that helps - provided one does it in private.

Hmm 'Master and Commander', I've not seen the film, but read the books
- Patrick O'Brien was a remarkable fraud, and his books are quite
insidious.

Regarding language, I can't understand why 'dumbing down' seems to be
the PC thing these days.

Great story about the acronyms.

No idea about the cement mix for the doorstep, are you
setting/resetting stones or is this going to be a solid lump of
concrete ?

I still shudder at the memory of breaking up and skipping a large raft
of concrete ...

Norman

unread,
Oct 20, 2005, 10:58:20 AM10/20/05
to Brainstormings
Drew Wrote
:" Would it not be desirable to raise everyone to the highest

standard rather than drag everyone down to LCD. (Hurt me back, feeling
girny").
You have just described the duality of the Comprehensive Education
System but so long as the agenda is set by politically correct
sociologists I know which way the level will float.

Re your doorstep; if it is a solid slab, you want a high cement ratio
with the minimum amount of water, only just enough to make the mix
workable. Try three volumes (shovels) of sand to one of cement. You can
get more sand on a shovel when the sand is a bit wet, so take care the
volumes are roughly the same. The more cement the harder is the
eventual set. Add a good dollop of washing up liquid to make it easier
to work and the minimum water to make it cohesive, in fact a bit less
than this is OK. The more water you have the sloppier the mix which is
alright for bricks and tiles but you don't want the weight of the
slab to squash the mortar out of place and alter the level. If you want
to do a belt and braces exercise you can always knock a few wooden
wedges into the cement after placing the step. Remove them after a
couple of hours and make good.
If it is tiles you are placing on a step use a 4:1 mix and make it a
bit sloppy.

Still tickled by the bike club tips. Made me laugh -- and hurt my back.

Thanks!
Anytime Drew, that's what mates are for.

OK, the F story, it's not as widely known as I would have thought but
here goes.
Sometime in the past, about 100 - 200 years ago guess, the crime of
rape didn't exist, there was only assault. When people (men) first
started to notice that women were part of the human race, they came to
realise that assaulting women often had different outcomes than getting
drunk and thumping another man on the nose. They therefore introduced a
new crime for sexually assaulting women.
One way the Victorian professional classes maintained their position
above the motley prols was to use, often flowery, language that only
they understood. The word 'fecund' is mainly, but not exclusively,
used in botany and means fertilised or propagated and the new crime was
known as Fecund Under Carnal Knowledge. Even this was too much for the
Victorians and the poor victim became known as the one who had been
fucked. This was too good a word to remain outside common parlance for
very long, even after the name of the crime was dropped in favour of
rape.

Best.

Drew

unread,
Oct 20, 2005, 9:53:17 PM10/20/05
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Can't choose your relatives eh. Times I'd thought I'd like to
swap but might end up with something worse. Really puts me off
parenthood but haven't had too many offers recently anyway. Is the
poison is along the lines of 'nature abhors a vacuum', you know how
people (wumin esp) fester away when they haven't got enough to really
be concerned about. Ah well, as I always say, look on the bright side,
only another 40 years or so to go.

Never having read Patrick O'Brien I cannot comment. Insignificant
details like that never restrain bro though. (Aw Jeez, Westway -- quick
change of station). Bro's recently become an authority on birds too,
and locomotives and gawd knows what else. Wanna do a swap? I shall
delight in slipping in the F derivation, ta.

Thanks for advice Norman. I a frustrated intellectual and you a
frustrated bricky ;-) Just making the step out of concrete, and a whole
lot of the stuff too cos it's quite big. Although remarkably agile
for an old fart, or even a young one, I don't do bending well. Was
crap at cricket fielding 'cos I couldn't pick up a ball on the run,
not that this has scarred me. So mixing concrete is a pain in the dong.
Hell, my 98 year old Gran can still get her palms on the ground and I
could *never* touch my toes. Wish I'd borrowed a mixer but mate who
has one is on holiday in the Med. Most inconsiderate.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 21, 2005, 4:45:12 AM10/21/05
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That Fecund Under Carnal Knowledge is a classic

Here is an alternative derivation:
(watch for wrapping)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=fuck&searchmode=term

My guess is that it is a combination of the two, and that certain
Victorian lawyers were also into amusing acronyms.

Drew, it sounds as if you are laying one monstrous concrete slab, it
might be an idea to put out the word for a cement mixer - possibly even
a human one.

Drew

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Oct 21, 2005, 8:45:03 PM10/21/05
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More fascinating info on the roots of f***. Jury perhaps still out.
C***, one of my favourite words in suitable context and quite appealing
when a sweet, well spoken Catholic lass of my past ken would use it
when referring to her anatomy. An ancient word I believe.

Yup, 'tis indeed quite a big slab, but if you've ever dug a hole in
a ground it always seems like a hell of a lot of dirt comes from a wee
hole. So today I mixed by hand quarter of a ton of concrete (in two
lots) and I'm well knackered. Then the Castle factor, our nearest
neighbour couple of hundred yards down the wooded hill, phoned up to
say he'd finally persuaded the free-range hens to lay half a dozen
eggs if I wanted them. He has a way with 'girls'. So I tramped
down, blethered about grass cutting and mentioned the concrete. Then he
announced that for the last six months he's been nagging a workman
mate to remove his electric mixer from one of the outhouses. BUGGER.

Not best!

Message has been deleted

Norman

unread,
Oct 22, 2005, 4:27:58 AM10/22/05
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I guess I just believed the guy who told me about the F word, I had no
reason not to. I never did an etymology search on it, but it looks like

its roots are much older. Probably as much bollox as 'news' being
derived from North East West and South.
Not done a search on the C word either but I always thought it was
archaic English for purse but that is just as likely as the other
word.
The T word I don't have any clue about. Somebody told me it was a
person who put straw roves on houses but it seems unlikely to me ;-).

Yes Drew, just when you have had your legs knocked from under you, life
has a way of coming along and kicking you in the balls.

Best

Jerry

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Oct 22, 2005, 5:22:11 AM10/22/05
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My original hunch was that it came from old English, typically German
- a quick dig in Ficken proved that wrong

The C word probably comes from 'Cut'
- Malvolio yammers on about her C's and her U's and her T's - which is
a risque joke.

I'm always amused about 'Silk Cut' cigarettes, I'll bet the guy(s) who
named them knew the joke.

Ah well Drew, at least you know where to get another mixer should the
need arise
- I've also a hunch that you'll be stripping down and turbo charging
the one the factor showed you before long.

Drew

unread,
Oct 22, 2005, 8:08:46 PM10/22/05
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Oh, I thought Malvolio was a chap. Ah well, I never claim classical
schooling.

Silk Cut, yea. Funny the censors never twigged to that slapper
Madonna's 'Get into the groove'. I prefer my filth to be blatant,
not masquerading mutton dressed as lamb.

Curiously, John the factor also said "you know where to get another
mixer should the need arise." Sometimes I feel events occur
chronologically in the wrong order. As you say though, if I did borrow
it I'd probably do some fettling. My policy is to return equipment in
a more functional state than when received. Fix a lot of stuff for
John, not that the castle owner can't afford what to her would be a
piddling expense, but it works both ways. Few weeks ago he brought up a
rotovator with a very Glaswegian attitude to sustained work. "Just a
tweak of the carb" he said. Bleedin rebuild job it was. But we get
eggs, apples, rasps, strawberries, courgettes etc in profusion, use of
roof ladders and concrete mixer too -- apparently.

Best

Jerry

unread,
Oct 24, 2005, 5:25:36 AM10/24/05
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With Shakespeare his bawdy jokes were pretty transparent - at the time
- it is just that meanings have been lost.

Fortunately I know knothing about Madonna, except that she is a wealthy
trollop who should wear a burka.

I kind of figured that you have a symbiotic relationship with the
castle, chances are they prefer to bring things to you rather than have
them botched by someone else.

The fruit and veg are a modern form of tribute, also a way of
alleviating a slight sense of guilt.

Nice setup.

A couple of nights ago I heard a delightful poem about a guy living
backwards - can't remember who it was by - but I've just found it
- it is 'Run the Film Backwards'

Google: "at the age of sixty I found I had a wife"
(include quotation marks)

Drew

unread,
Oct 24, 2005, 9:13:13 PM10/24/05
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Yup, Castle and I have a good working system. Bit of a bald patch on my
forehead from forelock tugging but apart from that it works just dandy.

That poem reminded me of a very curious film, the name of which escapes
me. The whole thing went backwards, or rather ratcheted backwards.
Premise was that the main character was brain damaged and couldn't
remember the day before so he wrote lots of notes on himself and the
film progressed a day at a time except in reverse order. Hard work
watching. Also of course reminded of the Trafalmadorians.

Want another smarty-pants tip? Even when centre-punched, holes in metal
can wander off. If you have a pillar drill and the job demands high
accuracy, use a small lathe centre bore drill for the pilot. Marking
out and centre-punching with an eyeglass, followed up with the centre
bore drill you can get to under a couple of thou.

Best

Jerry

unread,
Oct 26, 2005, 9:19:36 AM10/26/05
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I suspect the forelock tugging is a charade

'Oh yes Ma'am, this is Drew, he fixes our cement mixers and debugs the
electronics of those NCR cash machines on the side'

You are dead right on the drilling, a guide hole is easier and saves
aggravation.

Drew

unread,
Oct 26, 2005, 9:32:06 PM10/26/05
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Lathe centre-bore drills are actually quite cheap and worth getting
hold of if precision drilling is your perversion. I do have the
advantage of a solid pillar drill, can't beat pure mass. On the face
of it, cheapies from tool-mart look OK but the shaft wobbles and no
amount of good practice will give accuracy. Even on my machine though,
I've never found the secret of chatter-less countersinking if the
work-piece is hand held, stainless especially.

Personally I don't understand how 99.9% of the population can exist
in any state of functionality without a 1 ton lathe. Pays for itself
too 'cos I get wee engineering jobs every so often. Wish I had space
for a milling machine -- could practice on these nasty NCR heaps.

Tugging

Jerry

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Oct 27, 2005, 6:59:42 AM10/27/05
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I'll bet there is a spare outbuilding up at the castle that could house
a milling machine.

Message has been deleted

Norman

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Oct 27, 2005, 12:12:23 PM10/27/05
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I remember at school, I was the nerdy bugger who planed half a
millimetre off the milling machine vice jaws. All I can say is that I
was very young at the time. Unfortunately, the class had been left in
the care of the student teacher who luckily for me I had informed of
the misdeed but unfortunately for him he had tried to cover up, but not
for long. The following week the class was balled out and I reluctantly
stuck my hand up as the culprit. To protect myself I had to drop the
student teacher in it. I got a stern finger with a look here message
behind it but we didn't see much of the other guy again.
Mind you if you do have the use of a machine at the castle it would be
nice to have another go, now that I am entering my dotage I have a lot
more experience behind me.

Best

Drew

unread,
Oct 27, 2005, 9:40:55 PM10/27/05
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Milling machine at school!. Nay lud, we had a hammer, and that was only
brought out for special occasions. And you tell that to the kids of
today.........

In your dotage, you could always pick up a second hand lathe (or
milling machine) and do lathey things. Really are incredibly useful,
just a little unportable. Amazing how often one wants a little bush
(don't!) around the house. Everything from fancy blind pulls (wood on
a metal lathe) to plumbing fittings, to bike and car parts etc. Also
you become incredibly popular with people who need access to a lathe
and most of them are young with pert little breasts (in my dreams).
Come back to my place and see my boring bar.

Best

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