image streaming + dual n back + krill oil = einstien!!!!
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freekyguy007
Jan 14, 2011, 11:46:48 AM1/14/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
hello to all,
can u guys help me with image streaming..ive trying to do it for
sometime now but cant get it to work for me....
sometimes im just lying there for hours straight and nothing
happens..no image stream...its frustrating....u guys gotta help me..
well , just started dual 1 back today and got pretty good results..but
it doesn't matter it simple enough....
i did 20 sessions 72 sec each around 24 trials each
will start dual n back tomorrow.......
BTW have any1 of u heard about KRILL OIL..they say its much much
better than fish oil..ive had both of the best quality and must say
that krill oil is definitely better..
well enough for now....
god bless all.
*PEACE*
can u guys help me with image streaming..ive trying to do it for
sometime now but cant get it to work for me....
sometimes im just lying there for hours straight and nothing
happens..no image stream...its frustrating....u guys gotta help me..
well , just started dual 1 back today and got pretty good results..but
it doesn't matter it simple enough....
i did 20 sessions 72 sec each around 24 trials each
will start dual n back tomorrow.......
BTW have any1 of u heard about KRILL OIL..they say its much much
better than fish oil..ive had both of the best quality and must say
that krill oil is definitely better..
well enough for now....
god bless all.
*PEACE*
Pencil
Jan 14, 2011, 1:21:39 PM1/14/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Hello freekyguy007
If Image streaming along with Dual n back everyday for 30 minutes
would make you a genius, don't you think everyone would be doing it?
After searching a lot on this forum, I see, most people think Image
Streaming is a waste of time - That's fair enough, but even if it
doesn't really increase IQ; There is no doubting that it helps develop
visualization skills along with aiding creativity.. In order to do
Image Streaming correctly you must have a voice recorder. Do your
session while it's recording, and then listen to your session 2-3x a
day to surely make your brain understand the feedback loop. If the
theory of Image Streaming is correct (Strengthen the corpus callosum),
then I think it's very beneficial to do.
I've never heard of Krill oil, but I think these oils are 80%
placebo... I still take 6g of fish oil everyday though, because it's
good for your health. I think people seem to over exaggerate the
importance of these fatty oils for intelligence, concentration, etc..
I've personally never noticed any difference in cognitive functions
from taking them, and I haven't been impressed with the studies I see.
I will tell you though what I did notice though, exercise. Exercise
everyday for at least 30 minutes.
I don't think doing 20 sessions is enough, that's hardly taxing imo.
If N-back were to show real results (not getting 4 more correct
answers on a test), then I think you would have to do thousands of
sessions to see any real difference in intelligence. Not "I think more
clearly" or "I feel like I process things faster", in other words, BS
If I were you, aim for 200 sessions a day at Quad.. Starting adding in
Combo, variable, crab, additional stimuli, and more trials... Image
stream in your shower where I know for sure, you're more relaxed and
"free".. Consider exercising at least 30 minutes a day along with a
diet rich in vitamins & minerals. Spend at least 2 hours a day reading
(you can learn to speed read, I haven't seen damning evidence, but it
would work a little). Those 2 hours, read about the thing you want to
do in life. What do you want to be? Physicist? Read 2 hours worth a
day..
In a study I've read, it took over 80 hours in cognitive exercises to
show more then temporary gains in cognitive functions. This was one in
schizophrenics. How would it apply to non schizophrenics? I don't
know, but I usually follow a non scientific rule of 100, consecutive
hours for real permanent gains.. 4 hours a day is about 200 sessions
which will give you over 100 hours in 5 weeks.. I don't think you can
increase your intelligence much, but I still believe you can to a
certain level. You think doing 20 sessions a day would get you to that
level? I certainly don't, and I think you need to invest some serious
time in for this to work. No one really knows what works and what
doesn't. There was a study done showing that brain exercises don't
work, well guess what? They only practiced for a total of 6 hours over
6 weeks.. Did you really expect to see results with 6 hours? All the
studies I've read that showed improvement were 50+ hours.. Do what
ever you think increases your intelligence, but do it for along time.
If Image streaming along with Dual n back everyday for 30 minutes
would make you a genius, don't you think everyone would be doing it?
After searching a lot on this forum, I see, most people think Image
Streaming is a waste of time - That's fair enough, but even if it
doesn't really increase IQ; There is no doubting that it helps develop
visualization skills along with aiding creativity.. In order to do
Image Streaming correctly you must have a voice recorder. Do your
session while it's recording, and then listen to your session 2-3x a
day to surely make your brain understand the feedback loop. If the
theory of Image Streaming is correct (Strengthen the corpus callosum),
then I think it's very beneficial to do.
I've never heard of Krill oil, but I think these oils are 80%
placebo... I still take 6g of fish oil everyday though, because it's
good for your health. I think people seem to over exaggerate the
importance of these fatty oils for intelligence, concentration, etc..
I've personally never noticed any difference in cognitive functions
from taking them, and I haven't been impressed with the studies I see.
I will tell you though what I did notice though, exercise. Exercise
everyday for at least 30 minutes.
I don't think doing 20 sessions is enough, that's hardly taxing imo.
If N-back were to show real results (not getting 4 more correct
answers on a test), then I think you would have to do thousands of
sessions to see any real difference in intelligence. Not "I think more
clearly" or "I feel like I process things faster", in other words, BS
If I were you, aim for 200 sessions a day at Quad.. Starting adding in
Combo, variable, crab, additional stimuli, and more trials... Image
stream in your shower where I know for sure, you're more relaxed and
"free".. Consider exercising at least 30 minutes a day along with a
diet rich in vitamins & minerals. Spend at least 2 hours a day reading
(you can learn to speed read, I haven't seen damning evidence, but it
would work a little). Those 2 hours, read about the thing you want to
do in life. What do you want to be? Physicist? Read 2 hours worth a
day..
In a study I've read, it took over 80 hours in cognitive exercises to
show more then temporary gains in cognitive functions. This was one in
schizophrenics. How would it apply to non schizophrenics? I don't
know, but I usually follow a non scientific rule of 100, consecutive
hours for real permanent gains.. 4 hours a day is about 200 sessions
which will give you over 100 hours in 5 weeks.. I don't think you can
increase your intelligence much, but I still believe you can to a
certain level. You think doing 20 sessions a day would get you to that
level? I certainly don't, and I think you need to invest some serious
time in for this to work. No one really knows what works and what
doesn't. There was a study done showing that brain exercises don't
work, well guess what? They only practiced for a total of 6 hours over
6 weeks.. Did you really expect to see results with 6 hours? All the
studies I've read that showed improvement were 50+ hours.. Do what
ever you think increases your intelligence, but do it for along time.
Oinchack'Olp
Jan 14, 2011, 3:04:44 PM1/14/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
There's at least a wikipedia article about krill oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill_oil
Win Wenger's methods are a bit disputed, but I also took them into
consideration, though I didn't already start with image streaming, at
least not yet. I first want to study a little mnemonics, which I am
currently busy with.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill_oil
Win Wenger's methods are a bit disputed, but I also took them into
consideration, though I didn't already start with image streaming, at
least not yet. I first want to study a little mnemonics, which I am
currently busy with.
Gwern Branwen
Jan 14, 2011, 3:27:31 PM1/14/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Oinchack'Olp <mots...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> There's at least a wikipedia article about krill oil:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill_oil
> There's at least a wikipedia article about krill oil:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krill_oil
From the sound of it, there doesn't seem to be any compelling reason
to prefer it to regular fish oil - the toxic part seems bad (have the
krill oil manufacturers put in place the same filtering processes as
the fish oil people?), it's probably more expensive since it's much
more obscure, and there's a lack of any studies about any benefits or
how it compares to fish.
--
gwern
http://www.gwern.net
freekyguy007
Jan 14, 2011, 11:35:09 PM1/14/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
well thanks for varied point of view guys..
but @pencil, jaeggi in her studies showed that training for around
half an hour daily for almost 20 days showed marked improvement in the
test subjects and she also said that improvement by this method is
dose dependent ie. the more u train the more benefits u get ...
plus i don't understand the jargon u r mentioning like 'combo,
variable, crab, additional stimuli, and more trials' coz im relatively
new( just started dnb yesterday,read about it a week back !!!!)
please help me here.:-)
plus it seems uve been practicing dnb for quite some time now, do u
see any tangible benefits ??
i have GMAT in the end of this year , and i want to improve till then,
is this practically possible??
thanks and keep pouring in ur suggestions guys they are
invaluable .....
god bless all
*PEACE*
Arkanj3l
Jan 15, 2011, 1:42:32 AM1/15/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I see benefits, but only when I practice. Just like running. I don't
mind, because everyone has their "thing" that keeps them fit, mentally
or physically. For most it's probably reading voraciously and/or
playing an instrument and/or doing a sport (just a thought: all are
good opportunities to practice self-discipline, which I have realized
is the best "raw skill" to improve and that DNB probably won't fix,
although breathing meditation might), but I think DNB, for being
relatively new on the scene, has given me the *quickest* and *most
comprehensive* impact compared to all of the above.
I think improving for your GMAT is possible in the given time frame.
Just remember to do studying on top of it; although I don't believe
studying will make as much of an impact as most would say it would
(tests like the SAT have what I think are too large of a variance to
hold it in the esteem that we do, and correlate too highly with IQ
tests to not advertise it any other way), but the more you can load in
your "Gc" *on top* of your "Gf" the better. With DNB I've gotten
higher grades on tests that I did not study for, but whenever I've
taken the time to study, that investment of time gets me to that level
or above without DNB as well as helping on future tests. I still think
it's good to do DNB especially if you have more tests and information
than time, but Gc and Gf synthesize; they aren't in direct
competition.
As for the jargon, I'll be a bit of a stinker here and say for you to
try them out for yourself. That way, you'll stress your Gf :P
mind, because everyone has their "thing" that keeps them fit, mentally
or physically. For most it's probably reading voraciously and/or
playing an instrument and/or doing a sport (just a thought: all are
good opportunities to practice self-discipline, which I have realized
is the best "raw skill" to improve and that DNB probably won't fix,
although breathing meditation might), but I think DNB, for being
relatively new on the scene, has given me the *quickest* and *most
comprehensive* impact compared to all of the above.
I think improving for your GMAT is possible in the given time frame.
Just remember to do studying on top of it; although I don't believe
studying will make as much of an impact as most would say it would
(tests like the SAT have what I think are too large of a variance to
hold it in the esteem that we do, and correlate too highly with IQ
tests to not advertise it any other way), but the more you can load in
your "Gc" *on top* of your "Gf" the better. With DNB I've gotten
higher grades on tests that I did not study for, but whenever I've
taken the time to study, that investment of time gets me to that level
or above without DNB as well as helping on future tests. I still think
it's good to do DNB especially if you have more tests and information
than time, but Gc and Gf synthesize; they aren't in direct
competition.
As for the jargon, I'll be a bit of a stinker here and say for you to
try them out for yourself. That way, you'll stress your Gf :P
freekyguy007
Jan 15, 2011, 1:53:19 AM1/15/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
@arkanj3I u mean to say that crystallized intelligence is more imp
than fluid intelligence? or its the other way around?
well its certainly good to hear that uve improved ur scores by Dnb,
i will definitely try dnb in starting from monday and post my progess
report for the week... i hope it works out coz if this improves my Gf
ill be more than happy....
god bless all
*PEACE*
than fluid intelligence? or its the other way around?
well its certainly good to hear that uve improved ur scores by Dnb,
i will definitely try dnb in starting from monday and post my progess
report for the week... i hope it works out coz if this improves my Gf
ill be more than happy....
god bless all
*PEACE*
Arkanj3l
Jan 15, 2011, 2:13:43 AM1/15/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Neither is more important than the other, although a higher Gf usually
results in a faster and more comprehensive acquisition of Gc, which
one can define roughly as "knowledge and skills". In that sense that
makes Gf the bottleneck if I want to do, say, quantum computer
engineering, because it would be blood complex and thus I need to have
the expanse of mind to handle it well. But a high Gc does not
necessarily come out of a high Gf -- for example, they've found that
expression of the Big Five personality trait "Openness to Experience"
correlates with greatly with the former but not the latter. So, the
theory goes that although one might not be the smartest, having a
curious disposition could still result in a higher rate of knowledge
acquisition.
If your head is full of clout then you might not be able to integrate
what you already know with a challenge, a question, a competition etc.
DNB for me at least as resulted in a clarity of thought that could be
marked by greater brain connectivity, a larger working memory
capacity, better focus -- the hypotheses are endless, but general
consensus here is that as much as DNB helps, time and effort would
still have to be put in to acquire the skills that fluid intelligence
allows us to use so effectively.
results in a faster and more comprehensive acquisition of Gc, which
one can define roughly as "knowledge and skills". In that sense that
makes Gf the bottleneck if I want to do, say, quantum computer
engineering, because it would be blood complex and thus I need to have
the expanse of mind to handle it well. But a high Gc does not
necessarily come out of a high Gf -- for example, they've found that
expression of the Big Five personality trait "Openness to Experience"
correlates with greatly with the former but not the latter. So, the
theory goes that although one might not be the smartest, having a
curious disposition could still result in a higher rate of knowledge
acquisition.
If your head is full of clout then you might not be able to integrate
what you already know with a challenge, a question, a competition etc.
DNB for me at least as resulted in a clarity of thought that could be
marked by greater brain connectivity, a larger working memory
capacity, better focus -- the hypotheses are endless, but general
consensus here is that as much as DNB helps, time and effort would
still have to be put in to acquire the skills that fluid intelligence
allows us to use so effectively.
freekyguy007
Jan 15, 2011, 8:36:48 AM1/15/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
so there is it is ...
Dnb shakes up the Gf so that it can improve thereby helping the Gc ...
resulting in improved grasping speed(Gf) and faster gain in total
knowledge and skills(Gc) .
thanks.
suggestions and criticism are always welcome./..
god bless all
*PEACE*
freekyguy007
Jan 15, 2011, 8:46:34 AM1/15/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
what are 'combo, variable, crab, additional stimuli,??
i could use some help here..
*PEACE*
i could use some help here..
*PEACE*
Jonathan Toomim
Jan 15, 2011, 10:28:54 PM1/15/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
http://brainworkshop.net/details.html
Heading "Additional Game Modes", about 2/3 of the way down the page.
Pencil
Jan 16, 2011, 12:04:38 PM1/16/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Freeky guy,
In another thread you asked me how to image stream.. I'll show you
step by step how I do it.
Here is how to do it
- First, go through your house and find 10 objects, describe each one
with your 5 senses (improve your describing skills)
- Go find some place to relax, I personally do this in the shower
- Take 10 deep breaths and count down from 10 to 1, slowly
- Ask your self a question, like, "Why do the leaves fall from that
tree?"
- Start describing what you see at a comfortable speed, don't worry or
become stressed out. Just learn to describe
- Record everything you hear (I'm not doing this yet, but better
results this way)
- Listen to your recording 2-3 times through out the day... If you can
even, spend that amount of time in a trance while hearing the
recording..
In another thread you asked me how to image stream.. I'll show you
step by step how I do it.
Here is how to do it
- First, go through your house and find 10 objects, describe each one
with your 5 senses (improve your describing skills)
- Go find some place to relax, I personally do this in the shower
- Take 10 deep breaths and count down from 10 to 1, slowly
- Ask your self a question, like, "Why do the leaves fall from that
tree?"
- Start describing what you see at a comfortable speed, don't worry or
become stressed out. Just learn to describe
- Record everything you hear (I'm not doing this yet, but better
results this way)
- Listen to your recording 2-3 times through out the day... If you can
even, spend that amount of time in a trance while hearing the
recording..
freekyguy007
Jan 16, 2011, 12:16:52 PM1/16/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
@pencil well thanks for the invaluable tips to image stream ... but my
biggest problem is that no images pop up when ever i image stream..
i just lay there n nothing happens even if i am willingly trying to do
it..
also plz tell the steps to enter the trance state and how will i know
that i am in a trance when im actually there ???
god bless all
*PEACE*
biggest problem is that no images pop up when ever i image stream..
i just lay there n nothing happens even if i am willingly trying to do
it..
also plz tell the steps to enter the trance state and how will i know
that i am in a trance when im actually there ???
god bless all
*PEACE*
Pencil
Jan 16, 2011, 1:16:16 PM1/16/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I don't know what you mean? Are you saying you can't visualize
anything? I'm sure you can, just close your eyes and imagine
something, like an orange. That's an image, now describe it, and move
on. At first, it's ok to force images, eventually they will come to
you. To enter a trance, just relax and breath deeply, clear your
mind.. Eventually, you will go into some sort of "trance", the more
you do this, the better you get..
anything? I'm sure you can, just close your eyes and imagine
something, like an orange. That's an image, now describe it, and move
on. At first, it's ok to force images, eventually they will come to
you. To enter a trance, just relax and breath deeply, clear your
mind.. Eventually, you will go into some sort of "trance", the more
you do this, the better you get..
freekyguy007
Jan 16, 2011, 11:03:56 PM1/16/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
but how will i know when im in a trance??
PS: have u heard of i doser?
god bless all
*PEACE*
PS: have u heard of i doser?
god bless all
*PEACE*
Pencil
Jan 17, 2011, 12:07:55 AM1/17/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
idoser is a scam
I have yet to see one legitimate "commercialized" brainwave
enhancement.
Trance is not important, my friend. How will you know? It's hard to
explain, but I can assure you, if you enter it, you will notice it..
Don't worry about the trance man, it will come naturally...
I have yet to see one legitimate "commercialized" brainwave
enhancement.
Trance is not important, my friend. How will you know? It's hard to
explain, but I can assure you, if you enter it, you will notice it..
Don't worry about the trance man, it will come naturally...
Arkanj3l
Jan 17, 2011, 12:34:14 AM1/17/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I'd be closer to adapting idoser than I would image streaming. Look at
the papers for Brainwave Entrainment in the files section; look at the
one scientific study done on IS.
Hell, I'd even put the two together and that would probably be more
efficacious (albeit we'd never know why...).
the papers for Brainwave Entrainment in the files section; look at the
one scientific study done on IS.
Hell, I'd even put the two together and that would probably be more
efficacious (albeit we'd never know why...).
freekyguy007
Jan 17, 2011, 12:35:47 PM1/17/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
c'mon man i don't think that i-doser is a scam..it works man , ive
tried it and i highly doubt it to be placebo......
binaural beats are highly effective for relaxation, BUT THE WAY I-
DOSER WRITES DESCRIPTION for its doses just forces the ordinary person
to equate the effects for binaural sequence with the effects of
tangible drugs..
but if u are into some mediation then i doser would work wonders for
u ..
PS: if u guyz want then i can post the links for i-doser here with all
the doses the company has ever produced n its just 22 mb.
god bless all
*PEACE*
Pontus Granström
Jan 17, 2011, 12:40:35 PM1/17/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I tried i-doser heroin and sure it gave effects, but I never want to try it again. Being totally wasted isn't anything I enjoy. If there's anyone who got link or files to latest imusic realeases feel free to send me a mail.
god bless all
*PEACE*
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Pencil
Jan 17, 2011, 12:43:09 PM1/17/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
That's interesting.. Would love to try it
Freeky do you mind giving us some links? I will test this out.
Thinking though, what benefits does this have for intelligence?
Besides changing brain waves? I heard it's easier to learn in Theta
then any other... Could be useful, but is the difference worth it?
Freeky do you mind giving us some links? I will test this out.
Thinking though, what benefits does this have for intelligence?
Besides changing brain waves? I heard it's easier to learn in Theta
then any other... Could be useful, but is the difference worth it?
freekyguy007
Jan 18, 2011, 6:22:18 AM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
ok guyz.. ill upload the i-doser app + doses for u all and post the
links here..
btw if u know how to meditate(which i dont..lol) then just try the
astral projection or out of body dose .... i creep u to the limits of
hell...i did a lot of resarch work on astral projection and have even
experienced it a few times... its just amazin ...
links in the next post..
god bless all
*peace*
links here..
btw if u know how to meditate(which i dont..lol) then just try the
astral projection or out of body dose .... i creep u to the limits of
hell...i did a lot of resarch work on astral projection and have even
experienced it a few times... its just amazin ...
links in the next post..
god bless all
*peace*
freekyguy007
Jan 18, 2011, 6:43:05 AM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
well here it is guys the link..
http://oron.com/gz4oot7i4iz0/iDoser_full_+_doses.rar.html
if u want to convert drg files into mp3 files to put em on ur ipods
etc then use this guide
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/400338/converting_idoser_files_from_drg_to.html?cat=15
thus after converting drg into wav, convert em into mp3 with highest
bitrate possible to preserve the quality...
use this app to nvert from wav to mp3
http://oron.com/ldqlpv8scegv/NCH_Swift_Sound_Switch_2.04.rar.html
god bless all
*PEACE*
http://oron.com/gz4oot7i4iz0/iDoser_full_+_doses.rar.html
if u want to convert drg files into mp3 files to put em on ur ipods
etc then use this guide
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/400338/converting_idoser_files_from_drg_to.html?cat=15
thus after converting drg into wav, convert em into mp3 with highest
bitrate possible to preserve the quality...
use this app to nvert from wav to mp3
http://oron.com/ldqlpv8scegv/NCH_Swift_Sound_Switch_2.04.rar.html
god bless all
*PEACE*
freekyguy007
Jan 18, 2011, 7:04:34 AM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
if u load a dose and it says that dose is licensed for another
computer then just
1. open the dose in note pad
2. delete the very last line, i repeat, ONLY THE VERY LAST LINE.
3. save it
4. ur good to go.
5. njoy dosin.
god bless all
*PEACE*
computer then just
1. open the dose in note pad
2. delete the very last line, i repeat, ONLY THE VERY LAST LINE.
3. save it
4. ur good to go.
5. njoy dosin.
god bless all
*PEACE*
jttoto
Jan 18, 2011, 8:51:06 AM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
The SAT correlates with IQ, but what component of IQ? According to a
study cited on this link, there is a stronger correlation with SAT and
Gc, rather than Gf. This is true especially in the verbal section,
but also the math section as well.
This doesn't necessarily mean that anyone can get a 1600 on the SAT,
since the rate of knowledge acquisition may vary among individuals.
Tests of episodic memory may be a good proxy for knowledge
acquisition, which seems rather independent from WM.
http://www.highiqpro.com/recent-iq-research/iq-predicts-academic-achievement
study cited on this link, there is a stronger correlation with SAT and
Gc, rather than Gf. This is true especially in the verbal section,
but also the math section as well.
This doesn't necessarily mean that anyone can get a 1600 on the SAT,
since the rate of knowledge acquisition may vary among individuals.
Tests of episodic memory may be a good proxy for knowledge
acquisition, which seems rather independent from WM.
http://www.highiqpro.com/recent-iq-research/iq-predicts-academic-achievement
MR
Jan 18, 2011, 11:22:24 AM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Wow, that site makes me ill.
Not only do they not provide any new information, a quick perusal
reveals sickening strategic inaccuracies in the name of marketing:
"Your IQ will improve by 40%". I know I've said this before, but a 40%
IQ increase, if you're starting at 130, would lead to an IQ of 182.
"High IQ Pro is the *only* proven IQ increasing software
online" (emphasis theirs)
"The *only* IQ software company run by qualified PhDs in the brain
training field". Of their two PhDs, one has a "PhD in in strategy from
Warwick Business School".
Finally, their "Our credentials page" features a very prominent
section showing the scientists behind the training exercises, with
pictures of Jaeggi, Baddeley, Jonides, and Buschkuehl, that make it
look like they are associated with the company - see
http://www.highiqpro.com/high-iq-pro/high-iq-pro-expertise
I think someone should let Jaeggi know her picture is being used to
sell software that's freely available on-line.
Oh, and in case you guys don't know why their program is better than
Brain Workshop, this page spells it out for you:
http://www.highiqpro.com/high-iq-pro/high-iq-pro-specs
That last page alone should make us all want to donate something to
Brain Workshop.
M
On Jan 18, 8:51 am, jttoto <jtdem...@uncc.edu> wrote:
> The SAT correlates with IQ, but what component of IQ? According to a
> study cited on this link, there is a stronger correlation with SAT and
> Gc, rather than Gf. This is true especially in the verbal section,
> but also the math section as well.
>
> This doesn't necessarily mean that anyone can get a 1600 on the SAT,
> since the rate of knowledge acquisition may vary among individuals.
> Tests of episodic memory may be a good proxy for knowledge
> acquisition, which seems rather independent from WM.
>
> http://www.highiqpro.com/recent-iq-research/iq-predicts-academic-achi...
Not only do they not provide any new information, a quick perusal
reveals sickening strategic inaccuracies in the name of marketing:
"Your IQ will improve by 40%". I know I've said this before, but a 40%
IQ increase, if you're starting at 130, would lead to an IQ of 182.
"High IQ Pro is the *only* proven IQ increasing software
online" (emphasis theirs)
"The *only* IQ software company run by qualified PhDs in the brain
training field". Of their two PhDs, one has a "PhD in in strategy from
Warwick Business School".
Finally, their "Our credentials page" features a very prominent
section showing the scientists behind the training exercises, with
pictures of Jaeggi, Baddeley, Jonides, and Buschkuehl, that make it
look like they are associated with the company - see
http://www.highiqpro.com/high-iq-pro/high-iq-pro-expertise
I think someone should let Jaeggi know her picture is being used to
sell software that's freely available on-line.
Oh, and in case you guys don't know why their program is better than
Brain Workshop, this page spells it out for you:
http://www.highiqpro.com/high-iq-pro/high-iq-pro-specs
That last page alone should make us all want to donate something to
Brain Workshop.
M
On Jan 18, 8:51 am, jttoto <jtdem...@uncc.edu> wrote:
> The SAT correlates with IQ, but what component of IQ? According to a
> study cited on this link, there is a stronger correlation with SAT and
> Gc, rather than Gf. This is true especially in the verbal section,
> but also the math section as well.
>
> This doesn't necessarily mean that anyone can get a 1600 on the SAT,
> since the rate of knowledge acquisition may vary among individuals.
> Tests of episodic memory may be a good proxy for knowledge
> acquisition, which seems rather independent from WM.
>
Pencil
Jan 18, 2011, 1:47:39 PM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Thanks for the download links freeky
On Jan 18, 8:22 am, MR <rouss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, that site makes me ill.
>
> Not only do they not provide any new information, a quick perusal
> reveals sickening strategic inaccuracies in the name of marketing:
>
> "Your IQ will improve by 40%". I know I've said this before, but a 40%
> IQ increase, if you're starting at 130, would lead to an IQ of 182.
> "High IQ Pro is the *only* proven IQ increasing software
> online" (emphasis theirs)
> "The *only* IQ software company run by qualified PhDs in the brain
> training field". Of their two PhDs, one has a "PhD in in strategy from
> Warwick Business School".
>
> Finally, their "Our credentials page" features a very prominent
> section showing the scientists behind the training exercises, with
> pictures of Jaeggi, Baddeley, Jonides, and Buschkuehl, that make it
> look like they are associated with the company - seehttp://www.highiqpro.com/high-iq-pro/high-iq-pro-expertise
On Jan 18, 8:22 am, MR <rouss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, that site makes me ill.
>
> Not only do they not provide any new information, a quick perusal
> reveals sickening strategic inaccuracies in the name of marketing:
>
> "Your IQ will improve by 40%". I know I've said this before, but a 40%
> IQ increase, if you're starting at 130, would lead to an IQ of 182.
> "High IQ Pro is the *only* proven IQ increasing software
> online" (emphasis theirs)
> "The *only* IQ software company run by qualified PhDs in the brain
> training field". Of their two PhDs, one has a "PhD in in strategy from
> Warwick Business School".
>
> Finally, their "Our credentials page" features a very prominent
> section showing the scientists behind the training exercises, with
> pictures of Jaeggi, Baddeley, Jonides, and Buschkuehl, that make it
αrgvmziΩ σV
Jan 18, 2011, 2:22:31 PM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I've posted this one before:
http://www.paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/why_quoting_percentages_of_iqs_betrays_incompetence.html
This is in response to the risible marketing claims of the website.
Everyone knows the saying for PhD, and in this case it applies: "piled
higher and deeper".
argumzio
On Jan 18, 10:22 am, MR <rouss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, that site makes me ill.
>
> Not only do they not provide any new information, a quick perusal
> reveals sickening strategic inaccuracies in the name of marketing:
>
> "Your IQ will improve by 40%". I know I've said this before, but a 40%
> IQ increase, if you're starting at 130, would lead to an IQ of 182.
> "High IQ Pro is the *only* proven IQ increasing software
> online" (emphasis theirs)
> "The *only* IQ software company run by qualified PhDs in the brain
> training field". Of their two PhDs, one has a "PhD in in strategy from
> Warwick Business School".
>
> Finally, their "Our credentials page" features a very prominent
> section showing the scientists behind the training exercises, with
> pictures of Jaeggi, Baddeley, Jonides, and Buschkuehl, that make it
> look like they are associated with the company - seehttp://www.highiqpro.com/high-iq-pro/high-iq-pro-expertise
http://www.paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/why_quoting_percentages_of_iqs_betrays_incompetence.html
This is in response to the risible marketing claims of the website.
Everyone knows the saying for PhD, and in this case it applies: "piled
higher and deeper".
argumzio
On Jan 18, 10:22 am, MR <rouss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, that site makes me ill.
>
> Not only do they not provide any new information, a quick perusal
> reveals sickening strategic inaccuracies in the name of marketing:
>
> "Your IQ will improve by 40%". I know I've said this before, but a 40%
> IQ increase, if you're starting at 130, would lead to an IQ of 182.
> "High IQ Pro is the *only* proven IQ increasing software
> online" (emphasis theirs)
> "The *only* IQ software company run by qualified PhDs in the brain
> training field". Of their two PhDs, one has a "PhD in in strategy from
> Warwick Business School".
>
> Finally, their "Our credentials page" features a very prominent
> section showing the scientists behind the training exercises, with
> pictures of Jaeggi, Baddeley, Jonides, and Buschkuehl, that make it
Pontus Granström
Jan 18, 2011, 2:29:52 PM1/18/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
I think I am going to name Paul as a IQ-Taliban. It's not a serious way of expressing misuse of statistics. Of course you can say that someone scores 40% higher as long as you do not imply that the standard deviation will leap just as much.
Pontus Granström
Jan 18, 2011, 2:30:26 PM1/18/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Or rather your transformed score expressed in standard deviation. Sorry.
2011/1/18 Pontus Granström <lepo...@gmail.com>
MR
Jan 18, 2011, 4:15:27 PM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
All we know is that the subjects in Jaeggi's experimental group were
able to answer 40% more questions. Though this is a nice finding, and
one that I take seriously, there is no way of knowing what it means in
terms of IQ increase (if there was in fact any) without scoring those
tests. Unfortunately, I don't think the tests were normed to be used
the way they were in the study (someone correct me if I'm wrong), so
this information would be impossible to obtain.
Regardless, that website I was mentioning is ridiculous, and I think
Cooijman's assessment of such claims is spot on.
Speaking of ridiculous, did you guys notice that MindSparke now
charges close to $160/yr to use their online dual n-back program? You
think the owner will let us mention that there are free versions of
dual n-back in his comments section?
M
On Jan 18, 2:30 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or rather your transformed score expressed in standard deviation. Sorry.
>
> 2011/1/18 Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>
> >> brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2Bunsubscribe@go oglegroups.com>
> >> .
able to answer 40% more questions. Though this is a nice finding, and
one that I take seriously, there is no way of knowing what it means in
terms of IQ increase (if there was in fact any) without scoring those
tests. Unfortunately, I don't think the tests were normed to be used
the way they were in the study (someone correct me if I'm wrong), so
this information would be impossible to obtain.
Regardless, that website I was mentioning is ridiculous, and I think
Cooijman's assessment of such claims is spot on.
Speaking of ridiculous, did you guys notice that MindSparke now
charges close to $160/yr to use their online dual n-back program? You
think the owner will let us mention that there are free versions of
dual n-back in his comments section?
M
On Jan 18, 2:30 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or rather your transformed score expressed in standard deviation. Sorry.
>
>
> > I think I am going to name Paul as a IQ-Taliban. It's not a serious way of
> > expressing misuse of statistics. Of course you can say that someone scores
> > 40% higher as long as you do not imply that the standard deviation will leap
> > just as much.
>
>
On Jan 18, 2:30 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or rather your transformed score expressed in standard deviation. Sorry.
>
> 2011/1/18 Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com>
> > I think I am going to name Paul as a IQ-Taliban. It's not a serious way of
> > expressing misuse of statistics. Of course you can say that someone scores
> > 40% higher as long as you do not imply that the standard deviation will leap
> > just as much.
>
>
On Jan 18, 2:30 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or rather your transformed score expressed in standard deviation. Sorry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think I am going to name Paul as a IQ-Taliban. It's not a serious way of
> > expressing misuse of statistics. Of course you can say that someone scores
> > 40% higher as long as you do not imply that the standard deviation will leap
> > just as much.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I think I am going to name Paul as a IQ-Taliban. It's not a serious way of
> > expressing misuse of statistics. Of course you can say that someone scores
> > 40% higher as long as you do not imply that the standard deviation will leap
> > just as much.
>
> > On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM, αrgvmziΩ σV <argum...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I've posted this one before:
>
> >>http://www.paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/why_quoting_percentages_of_...
>
> >> I've posted this one before:
>
> >> .
Pontus Granström
Jan 18, 2011, 5:17:05 PM1/18/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
In the latest study there was a full report of the test data, and it showed that the average improvement was around ~1SD. I do not remember exactly the average deviation but I believe it was around two questions.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.
MR
Jan 18, 2011, 5:38:06 PM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Thanks Pontus, I'll take a look at that.
αrgvmziΩ σV
Jan 18, 2011, 7:35:52 PM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Very funny, and you were the person whose posts that initially led me
to post that link not too long ago; your remark comes as absolutely no
surprise. This is also why few would miss much by ignoring most of
your "contributions" to the group.
No matter how much sophistry you engage in, you'll be wrong every
single time on this.
argumzio
On Jan 18, 1:29 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think I am going to name Paul as a IQ-Taliban. It's not a serious way of
> expressing misuse of statistics. Of course you can say that someone scores
> 40% higher as long as you do not imply that the standard deviation will leap
> just as much.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM, αrgvmziΩ σV <argum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've posted this one before:
>
> >http://www.paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/why_quoting_percentages_of_...
> > brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
to post that link not too long ago; your remark comes as absolutely no
surprise. This is also why few would miss much by ignoring most of
your "contributions" to the group.
No matter how much sophistry you engage in, you'll be wrong every
single time on this.
argumzio
On Jan 18, 1:29 pm, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think I am going to name Paul as a IQ-Taliban. It's not a serious way of
> expressing misuse of statistics. Of course you can say that someone scores
> 40% higher as long as you do not imply that the standard deviation will leap
> just as much.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM, αrgvmziΩ σV <argum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've posted this one before:
>
> > .
freekyguy007
Jan 19, 2011, 12:18:41 AM1/19/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
So, wuts the end game guyz???
does dual n back help or not.??
god bless all
*PEACE*
does dual n back help or not.??
god bless all
*PEACE*
Jonathan Toomim
Jan 19, 2011, 1:56:45 AM1/19/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Incidentally, I just sent them an irate email complaining about the
lack of a check mark for Brain Workshop under the "Professional
neuroscientist psychologist led team" column. I *am* a professional
neuroscientist. "Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute" is on my resume,
as is a degree in neurobiology from UC Berkeley.
lack of a check mark for Brain Workshop under the "Professional
neuroscientist psychologist led team" column. I *am* a professional
neuroscientist. "Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute" is on my resume,
as is a degree in neurobiology from UC Berkeley.
I'm curious to see how they respond.
Jonathan
Pontus Granström
Jan 19, 2011, 4:28:40 AM1/19/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Argumzio, if you took your time to actually read my post I never stated that IQ-training (or similar) would improve the IQ but rather intelligence/raw score in comparison with another group. I am very aware of the fact that multiplying the transformed
deviation from the mean will give wrong results. However a Taliban way of thinking is to call all people who believe that cognition are malleable to some meaningful degree "idiots" not worth listening to because intelligence is a solely statistical construct, this will probably take away the motivation for many to do things that in my belief have a positive impact on what we call intelligence (IQ-tests and a like).
deviation from the mean will give wrong results. However a Taliban way of thinking is to call all people who believe that cognition are malleable to some meaningful degree "idiots" not worth listening to because intelligence is a solely statistical construct, this will probably take away the motivation for many to do things that in my belief have a positive impact on what we call intelligence (IQ-tests and a like).
--
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αrgvmziΩ σV
Jan 19, 2011, 7:40:12 AM1/19/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Jonathan, I'd be interested to read what they have to say, if they are
so inclined. Please share. :)
argumzio
so inclined. Please share. :)
argumzio
Oinchack'Olp
Jan 18, 2011, 5:18:29 PM1/18/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
> You think the owner will let us mention that there are free versions
> of dual n-back in his comments section?
mailinator.com address and wrote the following there at the comments
section:
"According to the article about n-back in the english Wikipedia
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back ), there has been published an
additional study in 2009 that claims that training of the n-back task
results in "Changes in Cortical Dopamine D1 Receptor Binding
Associated with Cognitive Training".
Does anyone know where I can find that study? I went to the website of
the Science Magazine but didn't find it there!?"
Of course that comment is still in the pending schedule :-/
In the mentioned Wikipedia article about n-back there are links to
brain workshop, cognitivefun.net, soakyourhead.com etc., even a link
to the original program used in the Jaeggi study, BrainTwister (due to
my editing of that article some weeks ago, hehe ) is there.
I hope the owner didn't train n-back enough to recognize the ruse, as
well as that the 160$-paying-mndsprk-users trained enough n-back to
get the idea to visit that Wikipedia article :-D
Message has been deleted
freekyguy007
Jan 19, 2011, 11:11:15 AM1/19/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
guyz guyz guyz ....
So in the end wut can we expect after a considerable amount of time
spent with the dual n back training...
i cant understand ur scientific lang guyz....please, simple english
would be super helpful...
thanks
god bless all
*PEACE*
So in the end wut can we expect after a considerable amount of time
spent with the dual n back training...
i cant understand ur scientific lang guyz....please, simple english
would be super helpful...
thanks
god bless all
*PEACE*
MR
Jan 19, 2011, 2:08:19 PM1/19/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
I like it Oinchack'Olp... Martin, the owner of the site does know
about this group, and has read these posts before.
He has been doing n-back for a long time now and last I checked was
hovering around n = 9 or 10 as an average.
He occasionally graphs his results over time which is always
informative - you can find these on his site's blog if you go back far
enough.
I don't have anything against Martin; he seems like a nice guy,
doesn't make *too* many grandiose claims, and from what I can tell,
addresses his clients' concerns promptly. Given there are free
versions of dual n-back available though, I don't know how he can
justify the price he's now giving it at (he used to sell his program
for about the same price as Brain Twister).
Maybe Jonathan was correct with his hypothesis that Brain Workshop and
this group may only be appealing to "eggheads" who like to tinker and
test things. Freekyguy007's last post certainly seems to support the
notion.
The end-result of all this is that I've recently developed a strong
sense of gratitude toward Paul and Jonathan, a greater appreciation
for the concept of open-source software, and an interest in learning
how to program in Python.
M
On Jan 18, 5:18 pm, "Oinchack'Olp" <motsog...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> > You think the owner will let us mention that there are free versions
> > of dual n-back in his comments section?
>
> Pretty idea, MR! 'Someone' just gave it a try, registered with a
> mailinator.com address and wrote the following there at the comments
> section:
>
> "According to the article about n-back in the english Wikipedia
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back), there has been published an
about this group, and has read these posts before.
He has been doing n-back for a long time now and last I checked was
hovering around n = 9 or 10 as an average.
He occasionally graphs his results over time which is always
informative - you can find these on his site's blog if you go back far
enough.
I don't have anything against Martin; he seems like a nice guy,
doesn't make *too* many grandiose claims, and from what I can tell,
addresses his clients' concerns promptly. Given there are free
versions of dual n-back available though, I don't know how he can
justify the price he's now giving it at (he used to sell his program
for about the same price as Brain Twister).
Maybe Jonathan was correct with his hypothesis that Brain Workshop and
this group may only be appealing to "eggheads" who like to tinker and
test things. Freekyguy007's last post certainly seems to support the
notion.
The end-result of all this is that I've recently developed a strong
sense of gratitude toward Paul and Jonathan, a greater appreciation
for the concept of open-source software, and an interest in learning
how to program in Python.
M
On Jan 18, 5:18 pm, "Oinchack'Olp" <motsog...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> > You think the owner will let us mention that there are free versions
> > of dual n-back in his comments section?
>
> Pretty idea, MR! 'Someone' just gave it a try, registered with a
> mailinator.com address and wrote the following there at the comments
> section:
>
> "According to the article about n-back in the english Wikipedia
Jonathan Toomim
Jan 19, 2011, 3:52:33 PM1/19/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
The simple version is this:
Dual n-back training improves performance on a particular type of IQ
test and on simple tests of working memory.
We don't know exactly why performance on that IQ test improves. Some
people suspect that it's because that test was timed, and dual n-back
training makes you think faster, but doesn't affect your ability to
comprehend complexity. Others think that it directly improves your
ability to comprehend complexity. The data that we currently have
cannot tell the difference between these two ideas.
In any case, it improves your cognitive ability in some way.
In addition to the three studies that have been published so far,
there are also a lot of anecdotal reports that have been posted on
this email list. Some of the users have found no noticeable effects,
but most of those who post here have noticed effects. That doesn't
mean that it works, of course. Those who have noticed effects report
that it has improved their reading speed and retention ability, their
concentration and focus, their academic performance, and their
performance on standardized tests like the GMAT and LSAT.
This suggests that the cognitive improvements which dual n-back
training produces are probably useful improvements.
Dual n-back training is young, so there's still a lot of uncertainty
about all of this. It's possible that it doesn't work at all, and that
the first three studies were simply false and the anecdotal reports
are simply due to the placebo effect. We certainly don't know what
exactly dual n-back training changes in the brain. But given the
evidence we currently have, the probability that it is helpful is
pretty good.
Is that simple enough?
Jonathan
Pontus Granström
Jan 19, 2011, 3:59:03 PM1/19/11
to brain-t...@googlegroups.com
Very good and objective summary.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> To post to this group, send email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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freekyguy007
Jan 20, 2011, 3:40:10 AM1/20/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
well thanks jonathan its simple enough...if dual n back can help me
with gmat i would be satiified...
and i highly doubt dnb to be a placebo..
god bless all
*PEACE*
with gmat i would be satiified...
and i highly doubt dnb to be a placebo..
god bless all
*PEACE*
freekyguy007
Jan 20, 2011, 6:37:43 AM1/20/11
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
Whoa !! just tried dual n back..its rocking man...amazing...out dis
world !!!!
did about 20 sessions(its ma 1st time man :-) of around 2 mins
each ...and it jus blows u away..
got a
100 % 3 times
90-100 % 3 times
80-90 % 10 times
70-80 % 2 times
67 % 1 time (ma 2nd try)
58 % 1 time (actually this was ma 1st try)
for past 2 days ive been doing image 2 back and sound 2 back(1 each
day) and have gotten pretty good scores (around 15-17 times 100% in
both)..
it really stresses out ma brain...
all in all i like it...
thanks to the coders.... god bless u man..
*PEACE*
world !!!!
did about 20 sessions(its ma 1st time man :-) of around 2 mins
each ...and it jus blows u away..
got a
100 % 3 times
90-100 % 3 times
80-90 % 10 times
70-80 % 2 times
67 % 1 time (ma 2nd try)
58 % 1 time (actually this was ma 1st try)
for past 2 days ive been doing image 2 back and sound 2 back(1 each
day) and have gotten pretty good scores (around 15-17 times 100% in
both)..
it really stresses out ma brain...
all in all i like it...
thanks to the coders.... god bless u man..
*PEACE*
abdullah ince
Nov 29, 2016, 7:10:18 AM11/29/16
to Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence
hey freekyguy007, how is your BW now?
come please My Dual N-Back Progress [2]
20 Ocak 2011 Perşembe 13:37:43 UTC+2 tarihinde freekyguy007 yazdı:
come please My Dual N-Back Progress [2]
20 Ocak 2011 Perşembe 13:37:43 UTC+2 tarihinde freekyguy007 yazdı:
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