Going to spend another year on Dual N Back Task and Digit Span but with a different approach

[StarND]

Hey guys,

I have been playing Dual N back for over a year and reached NBack 11. But the problem is that i never felt like my working memory or concentration improved at all.
I used the strategy "rehearsal" as people said that this strategy is allowed. So just constantly repeating the letters in my head. Like so, "A; AB; ABD; ABDC; ABDCE" and so on. But after one year of doing so i realized this can't be the right approach.

So i did some thinking. There is strong evidence that working memory is strongly correlated to Fluid intelligence. And fluid intelligence is solving problems in novel situations. And here is the clue. If you solve problems in novel situations your working memory is being used intuitive and not really active. More like you read something and it sticks in the back of your mind and you can grab it later if you need to. You can't just repeat it constantly in your head as many people do with Working memory tasks.
Lets take another example. If you're in class and the teacher is teaching something and he goes through information like idk explaining a concept. Step 1, Step2, Step3, Step4 and so on. You can't repeat the explainings of step1 step2 step3 constantly in your head. You just have to remember them in the back in your mind so when step 4 comes you understand it because you have the information of the previous steps back in your mind. Hope this makes sense. English is not my native language so it's difficult to explain it, but i think you get the point.

So after i realized this i was thinking about how to modify Workign memory training so you can really improve working memory. And actually the original study from Jaeggi gave me the answer. She said that dual n back training has to be intuitive. Back when i started dual n back i also came across this statement from jaeggi but i just thought that this can't be effective. And also many other people in the internet didn't like the idea. But now after over 1 year of wasting my time with rehearsal and not improving my real working memory at all, i came to realize this may be actually the right way to play it after all.
So i will do a self experiment. I'm going to play for another year but this time completly intuitative. How do i do it? It was very hard at the beginning but i'm getting used to it. At the beginning my brain always wanted to rehears everything. (Bad habit). So i increased the speed to 1sec/trail so my brain simply doesn't have the time to repeat it.
After 1 week i reached dual n back 3... But i actually feel like this can work.

Try it for yourself. Try the game "Digit Span". And increase the speed to 1sec per Number. Just check this website http://brainscale.net/  And just try to think about each new number. Don't think or repeat the old numbers. It's nearly impossible to get past 7 as the numbers just won't stick with you as your working memory may be not as good as you thought (How it was in my case). But i think this may be the key to working memory training. I think if you stick long enough with this kind of approach the numbers maybe will stick with you WITHOUT actually repeating them. So i will give it a try for one year and see how it goes

What do you guys think?

Edit: So maybe this is also the reason why many studies after the jaeggi study couldn't replicate the some success with working memory training. Maybe they just missed the main point which jaeggi made, that it HAS to be intuiative.

[Wang Rui]

short-term memory test
https://jesseky.github.io/demo/memory.html

attention test

http://www.twitchmath.com/objectIndividuation.html

在 2019年4月27日星期六 UTC+8下午10:21:35，StarND写道：

[אילן טללה‎]

Hey i have noticed this too and i think the best technique to modify working memory at this game is to try to hold the stimulus at the same time in your head and not to rehearsal it, im trying the intuitive technique now and waiting for results, what about you have you found improvements in working memory?

[Moon Kyu Seong]

Do you know where you can play self-paced position-image N back?

[Fredo Corleone]

I don't think DNB increases WM, I think it trains attention. There is no evidence of far transfer and I would add there's no transfer at all. Take for instance Brainexer N-back, it has particular mechanics, and despite you may be playing D7+B you'll find hard. Yet the game is not that difficult, you may be thinking it should be easy for you as you are a seasoned DNB user, but it's not. That proves DNB has almost zero transfer.

[fruitsnackattack]

Nope, bullshit, as someone with insane adhd and memory deficiency . I found playing the game for a months definitely helped my ability to memorize and pay attention continuously, and It also improved my ability to visualize things in my minds eye. I even had immense trouble with 2 n back for the first week.

Try actually challenging yourself and aim for 20 Quad back or 15 pent back, I guarantee you'll see your changes.

But you won't because most people subconsciously fear greatness will come up with all sorts of bullshit to keep themselves mediocre and trapped in normality.

[fruitsnackattack]

About 20 minutes every other day of Quad n back, and occasionally dual n back to test prowess. I never even made it to quad 2 back but I still noticed improvements in my function.

In fact, I had to stop because I saw a extremely gory internet photo and couldn't get it out of my head due to vivid imagery recall that quad n back gave me.

Idk about dual nback If you're playing Quad n back your ability to visualize highly detailed audio/visual data, for example memorizing multiplication table numbers or visualize the digits rather than "thinking" about the digits themself will increase. In effect your working memory will increase.

You will be able learn how to juggle faster, play instruments fluidly, etc.

[Fredo Corleone]

Do you have anything more than anedoctal evidence? I've played N-back for ages and I'm still playing, my experience tells me it doesn't improve your general intelligence by much, if any. I've tried all kinds of technique (except mnemonic) for a reasonable amount of time.

[Orwell Andrade]

Fredo, I don't have anything other than anecdotal evidence, but I think you should try playing without techniques. Techniques compensate for a brains inability to hold the desired information without chunking.

[fruitsnackattack]

Nope, how about you actually try fucking challenging yourself and realizung your full potential before discarding a true gem like dual n back? This is why people piss me off, they're so afraid of ridiculous challenges that they unconsciously come up with all sorts of reasons to keep themselves mediocre.

Reach quad 20 back or 3D 20 back or just fuck off.

[Fredo Corleone]

I've actually tried every kind of technique but I really enjoy the no-technique approach as it feels more natural to me. I've played DNB for years and I can tell the difference in terms of attention, but I can't say my IQ raise that much.

[אילן טללה‎]

Hey, im curious to know if you have noticed any benefit from the new technique