Dual N Back exercise for children

[ayllai]

Hello,

The dual n back (even the lowest level) seems to be too difficult for
the children. Grateful for any of you can advise if there is any
version is suitable for childeren aged say from 6 to 12.

ayllai

[Antonio Pereira]

This question is very important and I am interested in what people in this forum has to say about it.

Antonio

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[milestones]

Yes, there is a version for children. Check over at Mindsparke pro at
www.mindsparke.com.

To get straight to the kids version go to:

Link: http://mindsparke.com/brain_fitness_pro_jr.php?id=benefits

I've heard it's good (I'm not advertising or an affiliate for
them...just aware that a kids version exists there). I do own the
adult version of dual n back, which is quite good.

[Paul]

Brain Workshop contains a single n-back option (sound or position) which is easier than dual n-back. However, the program is not optimized for children (it doesn't have the flashy graphics, animations and sound that might help hold their interest). 

[cev]

The people who wrote the dnb/IQ link paper have a prog called
Braintwister for sale. It includes working memory training games for
children and a framework for training (as far as I remember).

http://www.apn.psy.unibe.ch/content/application/braintwister/index_eng.html

[ayllai]

I appreciate very much for your response.

My child has problems in attention and veral expression. I believe
working memory training will be of
assistance to his learning difficulties. But I think most children
don't have enough will power or determination
to do dual n back exercises unless it is modified. Even though there
is a modified one, I am not sure if
the efficacy remains the same.

Anyway, will look into the suggestions provided. Thanks.

ayllai

p.s. This forum is really a treasure trove of braining training
resource.

[cev]

I presume that, since it comes from the same group that performed the
dnb/intelligence study, they would vouch for it being beneficial.

The training sessions are much shorter for children btw, something
like 5 or 10 minutes (yet again, as far as I remember).

[ayllai]

It is very kind of you to give me the advice. 10 minutes duration
sounds more practical for training children.

[Reece]

Just a thought but isn't one theorized reason for ADHD due to low
dopamine and insufficient "outside world stimulation"? If so, wouldn't
making the task "very rewarding" possibly take away from some of the
benefits (eg. would it help with focus and concentration on a much
less rewarding task)? Now I'm not a child but I've struggled with (and
take Ritalin for) concentration/memory problems I've had all my life
and what I've found works *best* is to make tasks boring.

Again, I'm not a child and one person's experience certainly isn't
anything scientific... That said, I've found the best way for me to
stay more focused at 20 trials of n-backing has been to use 250-1000
trials when I normally play. It's so boring by the end that I'm just
*begging* for the activity to end, however it sure does make 20
trials seem simple after a few months of doing this!

[Gwern Branwen]

Perhaps people should try to find out how the ADHD-related papers
uploaded to the group engineered their programs to get kid compliance
(or lack there of).

--
gwern

[Seika]

"I've found the best way for me to
> stay more focused at 20 trials of n-backing has been to use 250-1000
> trials when I normally play"

I don't understand this, i mean, it takes something like 30 min to do
the 20 trials,
and you said you do 250-1000 per day?

[Reece]

Hi Seika,

You can change the session parameters if you're playing on the Brain
Workshop version of DNB so that instead of 20+n trials per session,
you can have x+n trials per session (where x is any number of your
choosing -- example: x=500 for me today). If someone takes a 1 minute
break between sessions, doing all the training in one or 2 big blocks
should save about 20 minutes per day or alternatively allow for that
much more training in the same period of time. In addition (at least
for me), it seems to have conferred the ability to focus on the DNB
task for longer periods of time. I normally play with speed settings
at 1 to 2 seconds per trial instead of the default 3 seconds, so
that's another way I'm able to get in more trials within a limited
amount of time.

[Ogun Gou]

The apn psy unibe link is dead, where can we find the braintwister game, please? My Google searches have been unsuccessful ...

[JW T]

https://www.ihirn.unibe.ch/?home

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[Ogun Gou]

Wow! I was searching for a child version but I wasn't very optimistic ... Merci bien ! Much thanks ! I want my little niece to try it. She is very bright but she is kind of super-duper-freakishly-hyperactive ...

[JW T]

How old is your little niece? 

It took me a loooong time to finally find that page. It was so hidden.

I wanted to use it on my daughter, who is 11 now, but wasn't sure whether this version had what others were talking about, interference and Gated, I ended up using Highiqpro 2G+. Can't tell whether it has had any real world effect on her yet. She's not hyper, just inattentive, lots of mind wondering, very bright, too.

She was using the 1st generation Highiqpro on and off, not regular, for about two years, and mostly alternated between single audio and single visual n back. She went up to 5-back. 2 weeks ago I started her on Highiqpro 2G+ on DNB setting. Her highest level so far is dual 3.4 back. Still not sure about the effect in her classroom. 

If your niece uses it, could you please share your experience here? Thanks.