is subvocalizing/chunking fine method on d4back? It seems impossible to do it without it though

[ömer ekmekci]

Its been 3.5weeks of n-backing for me. Anyways, would you call this subvocalization/repeating the audio and also moving eyes to the corresponding position while repeating every word as chunking and do you think chunking would sabotage the progress?

But it is strange though lately i realized that i can do d2b without chunking, i just focus on positions and let it go i intuitively feel it without effort.

And do you chunk your data at d4b as 2 seperate groups, i somehow chunk them as 2 seperate subgroups i automatically try that, chunking by 4 seems impossible when i try that i either get distracted or feel extremely fatigued and get back to 2 to 2 chunking what would you recommend on that?

Finally that lately i have a dream recall, i have been remembering my dreams for 4-5days consecutively and its waay more easier to remember my dreams if i focus to remember it is awesome! And i know when you nback too much you have intense dreams but this is not like that, i was a person with a zero dream recall skills now I just wanted to share this

Thank you

[ömer ekmekci]

Anyone?

[jotaro]

in my opinion those chunking and subvocalize is crap

it does sabotage, it is a bad habit.

lose it .

[VYBE]

when I had my most responsive results from DnB was when I was trying to avoid subvocalizing in the lower levels, d3b and d4b. as soon as i switched to intuitive style I started getting really "high" after sessions.

[Robert Stanfield]

Depends on the context of sabotage (improvement of level or wm). Personally I try to (I don't force myself) avoid strategies because it feels like a temporary fix to the inevitable. At some point you'll be required to remember multiple chunks or larger chunks anyway. The more difficult it is to master, the more rewarding it will be. That's my guess anyway.

I noticed at three back with intuition a difficult problem arose where I could not remember how many steps back it occurred. I find recalling more efficient with intuition, but recalling the order in which whatever is in question is a different story. It's an ongoing thing because I experience the same issue at 4-back although I can remember up to 3 back now easily. I suppose it's apart of the brain adapting. Hopefully this method will get me at least to D7B. I've only been at it for 3 weeks as well though, so my guess is as good as yours.

[ST]

First of all, there's a revelant section for everyone to read in Gwern's well-written FAQ. It mentions the opinions of lots of people within the DNB community.  http://www.gwern.net/DNB%20FAQ#are-strategies-good-or-bad

I recognised that subvocalisation or repeating the position and letters in my head was really something that was inevitable. My personal opinion is that 'intuition' is far too unreliable. When I began DNB in Sept 2011, I tried the intuition method and it simply just prevented progress. Some days I would get to D4B and other days I would struggle on D3B or lower and the pattern did not change for a while. I recognised that subvocalisation or repeating the position and letters in my head was really something that was inevitable if I wanted to progress.

Over the course of my still ongoing DNB training ( now D8B peaking at D9B), I've found that although strategies provide a large infrastructure to help you complete the task, perhaps 40-45% of my correct answers were due to "intuition". I just simply had a "feeling" that something was right without really seeming to actively recall it. I realise this is subjective and hence I am going to test the two theories ( see below)

My theory therefore is this: For those who simply do subvocalisation and chunking (NOT speaking/following cues with eyes), your "intuition" level or the level is perhaps a few DNB levels lower than your current DNB level. I feel this accounts for the effect of the strategy. For example, if I am currently at D8B or so, then my brain probably intuitively remembers 4 or 5 items back - hence intuition level of D4B/D5B. Therefore, as your DNB level rises due to the strategy, you are also simultaneously changing neural pathways so that your "intuition" level or true WM also rises. 

Nevertheless, I am open to trying the intuitive method again despite my previous failures because the ultimate purpose of improving WM transcends my belief about the strategies. I shall be separately trying to begin a new DNB training regime using only intuition like the user DarkAlrx mentioned in Gwern's FAQ. I shall report back results ( hopefully positive) soon!