DnB 6-7 n back plateau

[Michaelstein]

Hi, anyone here ever reached 9-10 n back? I've been playing this game for years on and off and the main reason I stopped was because I think I've hit a plateau and it is quite demotivating without any further progress. I'm using the dual n back software from i3mindware 2G N Back. Any tips on how to reach 9-10 n back? should i do adaptive n back or manually change the level to 9 back and train at this level? my problem is if i do adaptive i keep going back and forth 6-7 n back and i feel like there's no progress there so its demotivating. Meanwhile i feel better manually switching the level to 8 because its much stressful therefore i feel it's much better so that it'll break my plateau? Any thoughts? 

[Wilma Skillma]

Yes putmanually. Also, how much did you train at your peak before you stopped training?

I have noticed that progress happens when you do at least 1 hour a day

On Mon, Oct 2, 2023, 07:44 Michaelstein <ponce.pat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, anyone here ever reached 9-10 n back? I've been playing this game for years on and off and the main reason I stopped was because I think I've hit a plateau and it is quite demotivating without any further progress. I'm using the dual n back software from i3mindware 2G N Back. Any tips on how to reach 9-10 n back? should i do adaptive n back or manually change the level to 9 back and train at this level? my problem is if i do adaptive i keep going back and forth 6-7 n back and i feel like there's no progress there so its demotivating. Meanwhile i feel better manually switching the level to 8 because its much stressful therefore i feel it's much better so that it'll break my plateau? Any thoughts? 

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[Michaelstein]

Thank you for the reply. I don't really have a time schedule for dnb since i started. It's more of how many sessions i will do rather than how many minutes but thanks for the idea of 1hr dnb a day, will definitely try this but i have experienced playing for hours though. I usually notice some things like getting mentally tired and sleepy after dnb sessions the first few times i started around 4-5 n back, thats how i know it's working or that its having an effect on my brain. but it stopped after i reached 6 n back, especially doing adaptive, around 6-7n back, i do not feel tired or mentally stressed out, or have a headache. No noticeable effects at all at 6-7. I think manual is better at this point since im noticing some mental exhaustion unlike in adaptive. Also the method i developed over the years is to remember 8 n back as 4+4 as hard as i can, for 9 n back, its 5+4, is this an okay method? because remembering all 9 sequences without it is confusing.

[Fredo Corleone]

I have reached N = 9 on a couple of N-back softwares, but I was using visualization and chunking.

These days I'm training with no techniques (keeping the stimuli togheter and going by heart) and I'm slowly progressing, I'm playing at 5-6 right now.

I believe it's possible to reach N = 9 without techniques, and I believe that (+-1/2) is the upper limit of human potential.

The most recent estimates tell that the number of concurrent chunks that people can hold in their phonological loop is 4, and it might vary based on the phonological complexity of the sounds.

As far as the visuospatial domain some investigation reports no boundaries, and I think that's why memory masters encode information in form of images and use the loci method.

[Fredo Corleone]

Correction: "As far as the visuospatial domain some investigation reports no boundaries with respect to number of chunks."

[Edward Ntuk]

How often are you playing dual n back? 

[Chris Huser]

I'm stuck on 9-back right now. Getting close to advancing, hitting 9.72 once in a while (with an 80% advance threshold). I've done by 20-30mins/day with varying degrees of consistency over the past year. I think we can intuitively feel if there's more progress to be made. E.g. you can feel yourself drop a bit when some minor thought enters your mind for a split second - and you know if that thought hadn't entered, your score would be 5% better. 

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:44:37 AM UTC-4 Michaelstein wrote:

[Wilma Skillma]

Wow 9 back that is amazing! Have you noticed real world enhancements?

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[Chris Huser]

Yeah, I learn everything faster

[Iris O'Solomon]

More volume and mixing up the control settings will likely allow you to progress. 

[Jayjeet Ganguly]

Can you please elaborate a bit? Your routine on beating the plateau could be really helpful to all. Whats your DnB lvl btw

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[Iris O'Solomon]

I train quad n-back so it would be hard to translate my training plan over to dual n-back. I suppose OP could do something like

10 trials per session 6 back

3 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

20 trials per session 6 back

3 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

30 trials per session 6 back

3 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

then:

10 trials per session 7 back

4 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

20 trials per session 7 back 

4 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

30 trials per session7 back 

4 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

then:

10 trials per session 7 back

3 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

20 trials per session 7 back 

3  seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

30 trials per session7 back 

3 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

OR:

10 trials per session 6 back

2 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

20 trials per session 6 back

2 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

30 trials per session 6 back

2  seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

then:

10 trials per session 7 back

3 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

20 trials per session 7 back 

3  seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

30 trials per session7 back 

3 seconds per trial

(Move on to the next part if you are to achieve 80%+)

I recommend that people replace the 6 and 7 n-back parts with the level they are on and are trying to progress too. 

[Jayjeet Ganguly]

Thanks for the elaborate mail Iris! Would like to know two things from you:

1. Why you moved to quad n back? Did you feel you had reached your ultimate level in dual n back or stopped seeing perceivable results?

2. Can you please elaborate on your routine for Quad n back if some people want to move to it. Appreciate it Iris! Thanks! 

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[Iris O'Solomon]

I'm not a pro at n-back. I started with quad instead of dual since I want to maximise working memory gains. However, I am considering transitioning to dual n back until I can reach a high n score (maybe n=9) to then transition back to quad. I'm currently on 5 quad n-back and I'm struggling to make gains.

My routine looks like:

24 trials position 

24 trials position + image

24 trials position + image + colour

10 trials position + image + colour + sound

24  trials position + image + colour + sound

[Iris O'Solomon]

I forgot to include my benefits which are:

•  More fluid thinking
•  Depression gone
•  Slight increase in corsi block task score: 7 to 9
•  I can read faster since I'm taking in more information

[Jayjeet Ganguly]

Oh wow Iris. That's pretty impressive. How long have you been using n back? 

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[Iris O'Solomon]

6 months

[guy debored]

 That app is bugged. The output gating flags you wrong for correct answers.

[infogr...@free.fr]

AHAH .. guy debored, very nice pseudonym!

[Arcadia]

I've hit 12 before on an app that I forget. These days I'm topping out at 8 on BrainScale.net dynamic. But I feel like those settings scale the difficulty so not only do you have remember more, you have to remember more over a longer period of time.

https://groups.google.com/g/brain-training/c/Jh7-tdzSgiA/m/AGw8k4BjAQAJ

[Arcadia]

I meditate an hour a day and do cardio three times a week. No tricks really when doing dual n back. Just try to control my breathing and pay attention.