Zero Utility?

[Victor gold]

From reading through the replies, questions and general discussion on this thread, I find it difficult to be convinced that n back training will have a substantial or even a slight effect on working memory and intelligence. Why is this? No one here has demonstrated evidence on it and this is highly discouraging for people like me or do people who find benefits refuse to speak up? 

[Fredo Corleone]

What costs you to try it for 3 weeks 30 minutes a day?

[dominic lambert]

I can say I have seen an increase in my working memory. I haven't tested my intelligence, but my ability to write coherently has gotten better. So has my executive function.

[Subaru Natsuki]

Syllogimous sounds more legit, tbh

[dominic lambert]

My mood, dream recall, sometimes even hearing and vision have improved. I can understand conceptual things a bit faster than before. A few years ago, I meditated every day for 90 days for 20-60 minutes a day. That experiment produced similar results to n-back, but n-back has been even better. I started training in february and have been training consistently since then, averaging ~20 minutes a day.

[dominic lambert]

Also, when I started training n-back, there was a point on my head that felt pressured / activated as played. This point was near the junction of the left parietal lobe and the left side of my frontal lobe. As I've trained more and more, the sensation of pressure has expanded to encompass most of my left frontal lobe and maybe a bit of my left parietal lobe. I think this is proof of my brain adapting to the training and becoming more efficient and synchronized in its activation 

[dominic lambert]

Syllogimous does seem pretty legit though. I've got some research articles on relational training protocols and expected results lined up. Ideally, I think a perfect brain training protocol incorporates regular & strenuous n-back training, syllogistic or relational training, meditation, and cardiovascular exercise. Probably some supplements like creatine and omega-3 fatty acids, nutrition like choline from eggs, and consistent sleep hygiene like a regular bedtime and wake-up time. 

That all might sound like a lot, but I think the cognitive benefits are worth it.

[Recursion]

Could you please share those research articles with relational training protocols?

понедельник, 27 июня 2022 г. в 04:21:24 UTC+3, dominic lambert:

[Victor gold]

Do you consider the possibility that you are fooling yourself?  I mean, you mentioned a specific part of your brain which you think underwent a considerable change. And you also believe that this change has resulted in the stated benefits of n back.

How do you measure this and separate it from other factors.

I understand that ANY brain game or any mental exercise that causes strain will eventually lead to some form o neurological change, but I don't think it translates to anything else like n back players here may claim.

[dominic lambert]

I definitely consider the possibility that I am fooling myself. The sensation in the specific part of my brain only appears during n-back training & it increases in intensity the longer I train, so I think it's very much linked to n-back training

[dominic lambert]

These are the articles I was referencing:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1041608016300231 - A relational frame skills training intervention to increase general intelligence and scholastic aptitude

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779078/ -  Relational Frame Theory: An Overview of the Controversy

I think they have training protocols. I can't remember. Looking back, I was reading them more to gain an intuitive understanding of how relational training might work rather than specific training protocols. I imagine the ideal protocols would be very similar to n-back protocols, so 20 minutes for 20 days would be a great start.

[dominic lambert]

I'm sure that the sensation in my head has changed; I assume it corresponds to physical changes in my brain. I'm not sure that this change has resulted in the benefits of n-back. 

I think you're right to be skeptical. If you have doubts, I'd recommend tracking your performance on some task that is cognitively challenging yet disparately related to n-back training as you train n-back. Chess puzzles or chess games seem like good examples, as they provide objective measures of performance. Changes in reading speed, performance at work or at school, or clarity / speed of writing might also be worth tracking, although they're more difficult to measure and are affected by many other factors than just intelligence / working memory / whatever basic intellectual quality n-back training is supposed to increase.

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 3:56:13 PM UTC-5 goldvi...@gmail.com wrote:

[Recursion]

Thank you, Dominic! I'll look into them.

воскресенье, 10 июля 2022 г. в 04:11:39 UTC+3, dominic lambert: