Am i doing dual n back correct?

[Erving]

I've tried to stop chunking and stop repeating the letters in my head
now, and no good progress is reached so far. When i was using chunking
method i reached dual 7n-back, but now i try to do this new method on
dual 3n-back . I find it rather impossible to do anything without
repeating the letters in my head, so when try to go "intuitive" method
its very difficult for me let go from my last methods, but it will
probably work after a while for me. But one thing i was wondering,
this intuitive method, as far as ive understood, its based on
visualizing the letters on the screen instead of repeating in the head
right? But what do you guys do when a letter shows up in the same box?
I always mess it up when that happens.

[Erving]

No thoughts guys? Just wanna hear your method, do you always keep your
eye on the next square or how do you guys do this? So i can be sure on
this is the right thing to do because i dont want to train something
if im doing it wrong.

[punter]

I'm no expert nbacker but my feeling is that if chunking helps, go
ahead and do it. When I started out, I used to subvocally repeat the
alphabets in my head and it did work for me. As my n level increased
(currently plateaued at D8B with chunking), I realized I don't have to
subvocalize the auditory or spatial inputs at lower N levels anymore-
for instance at n=5 and below, I am able to 'intuitively' recall the
inputs without having to chunk.

[hallu]

It seems everyone plays a little bit differently. I do not follow the squares with my eyes, because I do not want the eye-position coordinates to change in my memory. For example by following 5-back five times I would see the whole entity from five different perspectives (assuming I'm remembering the squares by their relations in space), what for? I surmised that every new perspective puzzles my WM more by adding unnecessary additional information and decided one is enough (actually not moving my eyes felt easier since n 6+).

Auditory n-back. For every KCLMO 5-back sequence I was always sub-vocalizing the n-back position, K. After next stimuli CLMOS, I would sub-vocalize C and so on. About the letters being in the same box, the letters do not have to be in the same box, because they do not have anything to do with the boxes, it just how you want to play it. Can't say much about auditory 5+, because I've abandoned it months ago. I would say sub-vocalize them. If the goal of the auditory stimuli is to exercise your phonological loop, then you have to be using it. You can always play piano-n-back for raw auditory processing and picture-n-back for visualizations separately.

On Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:56:41 AM UTC+2, Erving wrote:

No thoughts guys? Just wanna hear your method, do you always keep your
eye on the next square or how do you guys do this? So i can be sure on
this is the right thing to do because i dont want to train something
if im doing it wrong.

[Erving]

To be honest I've still havent understood the thing with intuitive
method. Please could someone just explain to me how it is done. I
think I am doing intutive method now but I'm not sure. Are you suppose
to just discharge the last letter and location when a new one comes
and focus all your attention on that location and letter? And when you
think you have a match do you just feel it automaticly or do you try
to remember if it really is a match? And during the entire session
your mind is suppose to be clear, meaning no sub-vocalization, no
position remembering and so on?

[Pontus Granström]

It's important to self regulate and improve. Look for confusion and coping with overload.

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[Erving]

I see, but its kind of hard to improve when you dont know how to do
the task correctly. Do you use intuitive method or do you keep the
letters and positions in mind?

[Pontus Granström]

I did use the "intuitive" way when I was doing multi-stim. What I noticed from it was that I managed to get the maximum possible score at space junk. It's a game where you are shown a number of satellites for a split second less than a half and then are asked to count them. The last level there's about 12-15 satellites. To get a max score by chance is extremely low. Because I "felt" somehow how many they were. So train as you "fight". In general try to keep clear conscious presentations of the stimuli in your head and update them accordingly.

[Erving]

So you dont use intuitive way anymore? If that is the case, how come?

If i keep a conscious presentation of the stimuli in my head and keep
updating it, then it wont be the intuitive way, from what I've
understood. Im quite a bit confused about this.

[Pontus Granström]

No I don't use the intuitive way. I try to keep clear headed and push myself. It has improved various performance a lot.

[Erving]

Okay thanks for your answers, but could you be more specific? Do you
memorize anything? Sub-vocalization and so on? Any patterns?

[Pontus Granström]

No not really, I just go with it. Try out a few ways of doing it and compare them. Do what ever that works for you. As long as you progress there's no wrong way of doing it. However updating is the key. Whenever you get into a problem solving
situation you will notice how much easier this have become. You will almost by habit update your WM hence improving the chance of trying something that works or recalling something that you have forgotten in order to understand the problem.
I have experienced this event time and time again. Trust me n-back works, I could bet my life on it.