Verbal /social skills

[Lumos]

Anyone have any tricks for this? For instance today I went out to the
movies, ate at a place (Which I don't even remember). If I were to
tell tonight's story to somebody else it would be fragmented and very
curt, a lot of the times because I don't remember the details and I
stutter and fumble through words (Probably because I have a non-
existant social life that's just beginning to open up). What helps?
Improv classes are too expensive and are too far away at the moment. I
will do n-back every single day for a while. Before I go to bed I
practice telling stories for 5 minutes (Not by memorizing lines but by
trying to recall the important bits and convey them).

What can I do to increase say my wit mid conversation or even my
ability to express myself? I have real difficulty sometimes expressing
basic thoughts or basic events.

I've tried taking magnesium l-threonate, a good multivitamin
supplement, D-Ribose but none of them have had an impact on verbal
ability. I also exercise and sleep okay. Sometimes I suffer from brain
fog and my mind literally feels empty and there's nothing in there to
express in the first place. Are there any proven methods for
increasing verbal ability? I'll even pick up an instrument if I have
to.

[Lumos]

I think I'll answer my own question and get posit science's verbal
program while doing 20 minutes of n back a day. That with a few verbal
exercises and a few social outings ought to help tons, even in a
month's time.

[Palguay]

Are you talking about the posit science Brain fitness program (Auditory)?.   If you have any examples of such tasks let me know and I would be interested in implementing them on my website (brainturk.com)

Thanks, 

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[jttoto2]

Improving your aerobic capacity has been shown to improve verbal
ability, as well as a variety of other cognitive functions. Hit the
treadmill if you haven't already. If you are, try to jog an extra
minute every 1-2 days, faster, or both.

[jttoto2]

A couple of other suggestions:

- Do you snore, wake up constantly in the middle of the night, or has
your sleep felt less restful? Early cognitive decline is linked to
sleep apnea.
- If you feel like your cognitive function has been dipping, and you
don't have a logical explanation, you might want to see a psychiatrist
as a last resort. Be very mindful of social reclusiveness as well.
These could all be warning signs of depression or something more
serious.

[derpaderp]

Heh. Unfortunately, there has yet to be found a (safe) chemical cure
for social akwardness ;-)

Fortunately, there IS a cure of a different kind: Repeated exposure. I
know how terribly crippling it can be at first, but you just gotta
tough it out. Keep putting yourself in social situations despite the
uncomfortable feelings it'll bring you. You'll find rather quickly
that it becomes easier and easier and eventually you'll have mastered
the art of being social. It's like anything else in life, do it enough
times and you'll become good at it.

[Lumos]

I just do powerlifting maybe I can add jogging or something
cardiovascular. Can it be incidental exercise such as surfing or kite
boarding or something like that? I hate running.

Oh and I'm afraid that it's too late as far as depression is concerned
because I suffered from a severe little bout for about two years where
I cut off all social contact and dropped out of school. That was five
years ago though. But I'm pretty the part of my brain that deals with
communication and memory shrunk to a walnut during that time. Right
now I'm just trying to piece my life back together and I'm starting to
see successes in other areas (Surprisingly I run my own business
now...Which actually makes increasing my verbal fluency a priority)
but I need to improve in other areas. My number one priority is my
mental health, improving my attention, working memory, verbal fluency,
resiliency and lifting that damned fatigue and brain fog.

I went to a sleep clinic a while ago and they found nothing wrong but
I'm going to go to one again.

@Palguay-- http://www.positscience.com/our-products/brain-fitness-program
I don't have any examples but they're offering a special deal right
now and they've cut prices in general. If you were to put the
exercises up on your site you'd probably require a flash developer to
create some of the games (They're not that complicated though).

@derpaderp-- That's true. I used to be a social butterfly so I know
WHAT to do as well I just can't.... When I try to recall say a an
experience I had I go blank sometimes or fumble through words trying
to explain it. I've just lost the skill. Most people at least interact
with clients, or customers, or school mates, new people on a daily
basis but I literally lived a hermetic life for God knows how long.
I'm not used to remember stories or perhaps even paying attention to
cues of an event in order to tell somebody else later on.

[jttoto2]

I would save money on a sleep study if they didn't detect any apneas
or insomnia. Have you seen a general neurologist or psychiatrist?
Most of the time, people don't just go from being a social butterfly
to polar opposite without something being seriously wrong. I would go
to a neurologist first just to rule out something physical ( I was
thinking partial seizures when you said your thoughts just stop), and
then a psychiatrist to see if there is some kind of thought disorder.
There are good medications for what you are going through, but I don't
think it is just cognitive training you need.

On May 4, 12:23 pm, Lumos <luminoustoronton...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just do powerlifting maybe I can add jogging or something
> cardiovascular. Can it be incidental exercise such as surfing or kite
> boarding or something like that? I hate running.
>
> Oh and I'm afraid that it's too late as far as depression is concerned
> because I suffered from a severe little bout for about two years where
> I cut off all social contact and dropped out of school. That was five
> years ago though. But I'm pretty the part of my brain that deals with
> communication and memory shrunk to a walnut during that time. Right
> now I'm just trying to piece my life back together and I'm starting to
> see successes in other areas (Surprisingly I run my own business
> now...Which actually makes increasing my verbal fluency a priority)
> but I need to improve in other areas. My number one priority is my
> mental health, improving my attention, working memory, verbal fluency,
> resiliency and lifting that damned fatigue and brain fog.
>
> I went to a sleep clinic a while ago and they found nothing wrong but
> I'm going to go to one again.
>

> @Palguay--http://www.positscience.com/our-products/brain-fitness-program

[jttoto2]

I'm quite frankly shocked that your doctor hasn't told you this, but I
would start jogging ASAP. There is a TON of research on aerobic
exercise mitigating or preventing neurological and psychiatric
disorders.

[jc]

From what you're saying it seems you have:

1) times when your mind goes blank. Whatever the cause, social anxiety/tension etc, you want to generate more thoughts/ideas and do it fluidly.

2) an inability to recall/focus on a narrative. 

both of these would seem to me to be dealt with by practicing something like image streaming (win wenger).  Practicing closing your eyes and actively pursuing the thread of thoughts your mind generates will encourage you to be more aware of what's going on in there and access it. All conversation is a thread of ideas underpinned by experience, it's the meeting of the now and memory. The second aspect of image streaming is actually vocalising what your thinking, and by doing so you're effectively having a conversation with yourself, describing what's going on, this will help with the narrative part of what you describe. 

I would also second what other people have written. In terms of cognitive ability it seems the most effective tools at your disposal are exercise, dnb and image streaming. 

and then get into social situations and practice practice practice.  at first practice in safe environments and work up to more challenging environments, success breeds success.

good luck!

[Lumos]

Just a little progress report. Right now I'm on session 7/40 on posit science's braintrainer. While I haven't noticed any significant changes in my verbal fluency my hearing has slightly improved and I am just a tiny bit quicker when recalling words. My mind still feels blank when I'm talking and vocalizing, maybe it has something to do with poor working memory and a low cognitive load? It might even have to do with the way my brain executes that process... It might do it incorrectly or inefficiently much like how people with better working memories have certain brain "phenotypes" i.e. certain parts of their brains light up as opposed to others. I have had lack of social contact and mental stimulation for as long as I can remember (I dropped out of school when I was just 16). 

So I am hopeful. I think I'll start adding 25 minutes of DnB to my routine and see where that leads. I'm pretty excited actually because I will add more specific routines eventually. Here are my plans:

1) Learn analytic philosophy. I am going to hire a tutor who is a post doc to discuss philosophy and to correct my papers. Clear writing and clear thinking go hand in hand and it takes some serious mental and verbal gymnastics to write a good, clear analytic paper. Philosophy students also score the highest on the analytic/verbal portion of GREs. Also, discussing with him in person about what I studied/wrote will definitely exercise my verbal fluency I think. 

2) Joining a toastmasters club and doing 2-3 speeches a week. This will help me not only with my delivery of speech but it'll help me narrow down and figure out a strategy for remembering stuff I plan on saying. 

I actually think I'm more of a visual person as pmemory worked very well with me. I was able to remember a lot more, and a lot more quickly and accurately when I was doing that course. I think I might give it another go as there were a lot of law students and medical students in the forum giving it an honest go as well. 

I would add more to the list but I don't want to overwhelm myself. We'll see how it goes in the next two months first.  

[VYBE]

This is called taking action over yourself and your life, in a year you will be an entirely different person, and again a year later. enjoy :)

[Mike]

Hi Jttoto,

sleep apnea

what caused it in your case?

and did you cure it/ how?

[jttoto2]

I didn't visit an ENT so I don't know what the true cause it, but I
have a normal BMI so it could be something congenital like enlarged
tonsils or adenoids, which exacerbated or gave me apnea as I got
older. I was referred to a sleep study by my doctor due to fatigue
and night sweats. (I don't snore, at least audibly) They diagnosed me
with obstructive sleep apnea that was moderate-to-severe. I am using
a CPAP, and some meta-analysis show it helps restore cognition in
sufferers, so I doubt that all my effects are placebo.

I'm pretty sure I never mentioned this on the ML, but I was looking
into n-back and joined this group was because I was noticing my
cognition declining at a rate far abnormal than what is justified with
normal aging. This is why I encourage a lot of people that notice a
sudden drop in their cognition to seek a doctor first, to rule out
anything physical. It also helps to be a little tenacious and
persistent, since my doctor would have never referred me unless I
insisted there was something wrong. (blood tests were normal; I was
prescribed Ambien which did nothing, until finally I brought up the
possibility of apnea, which seemed to fit my symptoms but the doc
initially scoffed at due to my weight and the fact I didn't snore.)

[whoisbambam]

hyperbaric chamber.

but expensive.

30 treatments.

[Mike]

jttoto: do you think there are other less invasive tricks to help clear your airways?

in my case it's my nose:

• it gets blocked almost constantly with even normal, very small amounts of mucus --> and I'm breathing with my mouth during sleep--I always have. (I recently tried breathing through my nose more --> and noticed this problem)
• breathing through my nose feels like breathing through a straw
• funny fact: when I just pinch my nostrils with 2 fingers and pull a bit I get a much better airflow. --> it's blocked near the entrance
• I don't snore, I am thin, but I do occasionally wake up suddenly at night being out of breath (although it's only once or twice per night and usually in the beginning of the night so I thought I didn't really matter at first)

--> conclusion I think that either my conchas or nasal septum must be bigger than it should, near the entrance!

I thought that eventually (if diagnosed--I haven't seen a doctor yet for that) some kind of surgery could do it--what do you think?

whoisbambam: 30 treatments... to cure sleep apnea?

[jttoto2]

I would say at this moment, no. There is surgery, which is arguably
even more invasive, but it would keep you from wearing a machine to
bed the rest of your life. If you have a very mild case, sleeping on
your side helps to, but there is no way to know until you have a sleep
study. Even though I only recall waking up in the middle of the night
breathless once a week, the study found 100s of hyponeas (mild apneas)
and apneas a night. If you remember one there is a good chance that
there are dozens you don't know about.

On May 29, 4:14 pm, Mike <mikebk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> jttoto: do you think there are other less invasive tricks to help clear
> your airways?
> in my case it's my nose:
>

>    - it gets blocked almost constantly with even normal, very small amounts

>    of mucus --> and I'm breathing with my mouth during sleep--I always have.
>    (I recently tried breathing through my nose more --> and noticed this
>    problem)

>    - breathing through my nose feels like breathing through a straw
>    - funny fact: when I just pinch my nostrils with 2 fingers and pull a

>    bit I get a much better airflow. --> it's blocked near the entrance

>    - I don't snore, I am thin, but I do occasionally wake up suddenly at

>    night being out of breath (although it's only once or twice per night and
>    usually in the beginning of the night so I thought I didn't really matter
>    at first)
>
> --> conclusion I think that either my conchas or nasal septum must be
> bigger than it should, near the entrance!
> I thought that eventually (if diagnosed--I haven't seen a doctor yet for
> that) some kind of surgery could do it--what do you think?
>
> whoisbambam: 30 treatments... to cure sleep apnea?
>

[Colin Dickerman]

It sounds like there's a good chance you are suffering from social
anxiety. Being nervous (like in a social situation) kills your wm and
makes you feel like you sound like an idiot--you feel like you can't
think of anything to say. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with
your brain, you just get nervous.

On May 4, 9:23 am, Lumos <luminoustoronton...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just do powerlifting maybe I can add jogging or something
> cardiovascular. Can it be incidental exercise such as surfing or kite
> boarding or something like that? I hate running.
>
> Oh and I'm afraid that it's too late as far as depression is concerned
> because I suffered from a severe little bout for about two years where
> I cut off all social contact and dropped out of school. That was five
> years ago though. But I'm pretty the part of my brain that deals with
> communication and memory shrunk to a walnut during that time. Right
> now I'm just trying to piece my life back together and I'm starting to
> see successes in other areas (Surprisingly I run my own business
> now...Which actually makes increasing my verbal fluency a priority)
> but I need to improve in other areas. My number one priority is my
> mental health, improving my attention, working memory, verbal fluency,
> resiliency and lifting that damned fatigue and brain fog.
>
> I went to a sleep clinic a while ago and they found nothing wrong but
> I'm going to go to one again.
>

> @Palguay--http://www.positscience.com/our-products/brain-fitness-program

[Mike]

Jttoto: does the treatment you use changed things for you?
did you see an increase in your cognition?

if there was a way I could feel more refreshed and less sleepy everyday--that would probably feel at least as good as ... getting a new phone or a new super sticky ping-pong racket after having played with an old shitty one.--you know what I mean that feeling X)
NB: or when I discovered combo n-back --> real cognitive high from getting more verbal agility and feeling a bit better at conversing with people.

I thought for years that I simply was ADD inattentive. maybe that's actually really what I have... I can't wait to know.
I made an appointment with a doctor. it would almost be good news if I'm diagnosed with it-- assuming I cant treat it and feel better ... ?

[Michael]

A 100 mg dose of pregnenolone and DHEA before bed each night has seemed to have had both a positive affect on how refreshed I feel upon waking and since taking it I find that I am less tired during the day. It took at least a couple of weeks before I noticed anything, however others have reported shorted timeframes. Also, bear in mind, from what I've gleaned 100mg of both DHEA and pregnenolone (200 mg in total) is above average, this dose is just how the drugs are packaged (100mg per tablet) by "Life Extension", a drug company. I probably should book in a session to see the doc for a checkup nevertheless. Even though the milk smells fresh it's probably not a bad idea to follow the dooms day expiry date, wouldn't want to find out 100mg is just a little too 'off'.

These are just my subjective thoughts, unfortunately I am yet to optimize the way I monitor the potential effects of drugs I take. 

Take it easy,

Mick

P.S - keep your eyes open about any upcoming information related to semi-commercial releases of the tdcs, a very promising waterfall by the looks of things.

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[jttoto]

I felt a subjective increase in my cognition. The research is robust
on CPAP or surgery restoring cognitive functions in apnea patients,
assuming they adhere to treatment. In addition, cognition response to
treatment is related to the degree of impairment, suggesting that some
are simply immune to the deleterious effects of fragmented sleep and
oxygen deprivation. That said, there are other reasons to get treated
for apnea, such as cardiovascular and metabolic health.

[Mike]

Ok. thanks for the info.

I guess it's always good to open the window at night to increase oxygen in the room. maybe that can help counter sleep apnea to an extend.
can't wait to know if I have it.