On Dec 29, 9:30 am, Martin Syk <
mar...@syk.se> wrote:
> It is impossible to be aware of everything that goes on the mind, so
> even if you think you know whether you guessed, slipped or actually
> knew there is a gap to what really goes on in there. We might not even
> know that we're employing a strategy etc. I never said it is
> impossible to learn without indicators, but I think it helps us (and
> there's science on the benefit of reinforcement to back that up).
I realize we can't be aware of everything going on, which is why I
said "usually pretty well aware", with appropriate weasel words. I am
sure there is lots going on that we're not aware of, including
strategies that we are unaware of. I mentioned not using strategies,
meaning intentional and conscious strategies like mentally traversing
the last n positions and mentally repeating the last n sounds, because
I think immediate feedback is much more helpful when you do use such
strategies. When you use such a strategy, immediate feedback lets you
know if you are "off by one" in your mental rehearsal, and you can
immediately recover by shifting one position mentally. When you don't
use any intentional, conscious strategy like that, feedback is not
nearly so helpful, since you don't tend to get "off by one" and then
give a string of "wrong by one" answers.
The point I was trying to make is that I don't think feedback from the
app is "vital", as you said, at least not for everybody. It wasn't the
case for me initially, since I actually did better and improved more
when I turned off the indicators. While doing the tasks, it feels like
there is a fair amount of metacognition going on involving internal
monitoring of how effectively I am doing, how certain I am of the
answer, and how well my memory is working. This provides a form of
internal feedback, and this internal, real-time feedback occurs with
or without feedback from the app. Perhaps improvement is ultimately
faster when indicators are enabled, after getting over the initial
distraction, and perhaps I didn't try it for long enough with the
indicators enabled. At some point, I'll try enabling them again for a
while, when I am willing to drop a level or two and persist for a
while to see if I ultimately recover and improve more quickly. Perhaps
my progress will be better with them enabled now that I have more
experience.
Has anybody in the group experimented for a long period of time with
and without the indicators (i.e., not switching between them
frequently, but doing a long period with them enabled and a long
period with them disabled)?
> Imagin trying to improve on the task without knowing the result of
> your rounds. This is reinforcement on another level but it still
> compares to indicators according to me.
I agree it would be more difficult without feedback at the end. Even
though I know when I "definitely passed" and "definitely failed",
there are still plenty of times that I'm uncertain. The internal
feedback still occurs though, and it would still occur for me if the
app just looped forever without ever finishing a round. I think I
would still make good progress.