Brain Workshop - Do you have an idea that may be able to be included into BW? Post it here! No matter how whacky or wild!

[γενβιρΟ]

Hi,

In January of next year I hope to start working on some Brain Workshop
additions. I'm going to post a list of possible BW implementations
that I've sourced from previous discussions in about two weeks time.
I'm hoping that I can get some discussion on how some of these ideas
should be ranked from 'most important' to 'least important' in terms
of what people would like to see in BW.

Between now and then I'll fire off an email to Jonathan to see what's
happening with the "Chien CWM" implementation. In the meantime, I
welcome people to discuss anything related to an idea that they may
like to see in Brain Workshop.

:-)

Speak to you all in two weeks (brief two week trip away).

Regards,

genvirO

P.S - I don't want any money for this. Am I a saint? Good heavens no,
but I do like learning and so this should definitely keep me busy over
the holiday break!

[Arky]

I'd actually like to see what you've gathered from the discussions
first. Avoiding duplicity and all that.

Really enjoying the enthusiasm btw.

[Arky]

And I'm not kidding!

On Nov 4, 8:18 am, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Absent_Minded]

Would it be a bad idea to add a more detailed error feedback? E.g. if
you get a wrong answer it will tell you, say at the top of the screen
what n-back it was.

Or how about a create-profile option so it opens up the option for a
more detailed logging of progress. E.g. It would be cool if you can
create another sub-profile in a user-profile for certain customized
manual modes where logging of progress is possible.

What other user data could be plotted do you guys think that it
wouldn't be so redundant to incorporate a graphing tool similar to

http://www.google.com/publicdata/home

[Absent_Minded]

e.g. What if you could superimpose a certain n-back training over a
different game mode to see if there are any correlations?

[cyberslaw]

I would like to see a timer that tells you how long you've been
playing on any given day or at least on the current day.

[γενβιρΟ]

pick up yo walkie-talkies!

quick messagO:

will post a list by this coming tuesday.

keep the suggestions coming, like what i'm hearing so far.

hopefully this egg isn't dropped because i'm eager to hear other ideas
(throw egg back).

over and OUT! Shhhh (sound of walkie-talkie tuning out)...

[γενβιρΟ]

p.s

for his own reasons, jonathan hasn't replied to my email, so if people
want the chien implementation to be a priority, make it known.
personally, i'd rather not have it as a priority because i feel that
arithmetic-n-back and its variations does a similar job for less cost
(time it takes to implement), but that's just my take on it.

[whoisbambam]

I would like to try the chien implementation.

In regard to arithmetic Nback, I have only tried arithmetic nback1,
wherein it is multiplication, division, subtraction, up to 12, no
negatives.

i needed to review my 12s times tables.

what are your recommendations on arithmetic nback?

In regard to chien, I had tried to get ppl to make donations to get
the fire going.

I suppose we could dontate money to you via paypal to implement this?

I am assuming u know python? i think khanacademy has an intro course

[γενβιρΟ]

i don't want money.

2 reasons

#1. I'm not an expert, so it will probably take me longer than the
average 'certified' programmer. As well as this, I don't really need
it.

#2. I just want to contribute something

yes, python and I have become well acquainted with each other over the
last few months.

:-)

it may have understandably slipped ur mind, but this was discussed a
little while ago. Anyways..

Arithmetic-n-back suggestions:

http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/45fc85ef15057d38/fc4792e7152749f8?lnk=gst&q=arithmetic+likeprestige#fc4792e7152749f8

what have i changed since this last post?

i now train with _variable_ arithmetic n-back, so this mode is with
the exclusion of position n-back, contrary to how i used to train.

if you have any more questions or suggestions about this mode, just
give a shout out.

"i think khanacademy has an intro course "

this is how i started out, although its not in-depth, it is a good
stepping stone.

p.s - i hope i didn't come across as rude, but if anyone wants to help
contribute with the programming side of things or whatever, please
don't hesitate in providing some input.

[γενβιρΟ]

"#2. I just want to contribute something "

let's not forget that this is how brain workshop initially came into
fruition, through the generous endeavor of others (jonathan and paul,
as well as Gwern in one unique but highly important way).

On Nov 18, 3:59 pm, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i don't want money.
>
> 2 reasons
>
> #1. I'm not an expert, so it will probably take me longer than the
> average 'certified' programmer. As well as this, I don't really need
> it.
>
> #2. I just want to contribute something
>
> yes, python and I have become well acquainted with each other over the
> last few months.
>
> :-)
>
> it may have understandably slipped ur mind, but this was discussed a
> little while ago. Anyways..
>
> Arithmetic-n-back suggestions:
>

> http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/45...

[whoisbambam]

no, not rude, reading the link u provided.

there are 'other' python courses too--i think i once saw a 17hr course
someplace.

anyhow, many can be 'downloaded' illegally

programming eluded me back in 2003-4--i just couldnt get the hang of
it.

i was able to build terabyte cluster with 8gb ram back then (win2k adv
server, modifying .ini files, loaded 4gb into sql2k ram at boot so the
OS could use the other 4gb, used dell powervault 220s and joined the
backplane, and each machine also had 14scsi internal drives, 5unit
chassis)

got several certs, comptia a+, network+, server+ security+, i-net+,
and CIW-A

but damned if i could learn programming

now that i have rehab'd my brain a bit, i might be able to learn the
fundamentals now

anyhow, thanks likeprestige, and if u change ur mind, let me know.

On Nov 17, 10:59 pm, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i don't want money.
>
> 2 reasons
>
> #1. I'm not an expert, so it will probably take me longer than the
> average 'certified' programmer. As well as this, I don't really need
> it.
>
> #2. I just want to contribute something
>
> yes, python and I have become well acquainted with each other over the
> last few months.
>
> :-)
>
> it may have understandably slipped ur mind, but this was discussed a
> little while ago. Anyways..
>
> Arithmetic-n-back suggestions:
>

> http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/45...

[whoisbambam]

ok, i read that post.

Yes, i know how to play math back now.

at least just the audio portion you described in the other post.

it is now quite easy doing math 1back, 0-12 numbers (which i could
turn off 0)

just not sure what to do next.

[exigentsky]

What about the emotional dnb used in some study linked here? Best of
luck!

[γενβιρΟ]

"just not sure what to do next."

What do you mean? If you're referring to arithmetic position-n-back,
you play position n-back as you would normal n-back simultaneously
with the way you've just learned how to play arithmetic n-back.

Or was it something else?

[γενβιρΟ]

"What about the emotional dnb used in some study linked here? Best of
luck!"

Yeah, I'm definitely going to see if I can do something here. The
struggle is organizing all of the images. Just a thought, but maybe
this addition is something we could all contribute to in that in
obviously doesn't require any programming skills, all one needs to do
is just follow a few directions. I like the idea that if there are 5+
people contributing say 10+ images, that's at least a library of 50
additional (hate) images that everyone can 'scream' over (no pun
intended!).

I may have missed something, so if anyone has any trouble just give a
"shout out":

Size = 256 x 256 pixels (they can be larger/smaller, but this seems to
be a pretty good fit and this is the size of the original BW images
anyway)
Colour = None - white (so one can avoid having the images conflict
with color-n-back or a variation that uses colour for distinguishing
purposes)
Set size = at least 8 images per set
Image type = PNG

Images should be placed in either an existing folder or a new one.
BW image folders can be found in the 'sprites' folder, which, if your
setup is anything like mine (it should be if you've downloaded the
"Zip version for Windows (no installer)"), can be found here:
brainworkshop\res\sprites
If your setup is not like mine and you're unable to find the 'sprites'
folder, "shout out" and I'll see if there's anything I can do, or
maybe just mention which download you chose and someone with the same
setup may hopefully be able to help out (especially if its a mac
problem (I'm a Microsoft android/robot)).
If you want to create a new folder for your images, it's as simple as
creating any regular folder in the 'sprites' section and then of
course, adding the images to the new destination.

How do I create PNG image files?
paint.net should get the job done, and if you don't already have it
you can download it from here:
http://www.getpaint.net/

Once you've downloaded the program, open up your images using
paint.net, make any necessary changes to the images and then just save
them in the way previously described.

[shitsumeisha]

I'd like the spatial working memory updating from cogfun in bw:
cognitivefun.net/test/23
Slowing it down is especially interesting. I can't do three boxes
simultaneously, it's just to fast.

[Sameer Khan]

it would be great to see something like http://cognitivefun.net/test/21 but with variation to improve WM and reading speed :D.

may be with a increasing timer or something. the lines can be pulled from wikipedia given certain topic

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[γενβιρΟ]

List of ideas
--------------

#1. Origin: TheQ17
Idea: 15 words (or whatever # the user chooses) will flash on the
screen in two second(ish) intervals and at the end of the round you
will be asked to remember as many words as you can from the list.

2#. Orgin: likeprestige
Idea: Performing an arithmetic task to work out n-level for particular
a BW variant. E.g., in the case of traditional n-4-back, the sum "6-3"
may be flashed on the screen and the user would have to calculate the
sum where they would arrive at "3" as being the answer which would
correspond to 3-back in the n-string. So, it is very similar to
variable n-back, the only difference is that there is an extra step
involved, that being the arithmetic operation.
- A difficulty setting (for arithemtic operation - harder/easier)
would be put in place, where increasing the difficulty could be done
by either increasing the value of the numbers (6-3 v. 630 - 306) or
increasing the number of steps (6-3 v. 6-3+9-4+11-3+8-2+6). Other
suggestions are welcome!

3#. Orgin: Ben Epstein
Idea: Pattern recognition - like pressing a button if the current
shape and the shape displayed n shapes ago are a) congruent b)
complementary in forming a square c) complementary in forming a
triangle d) have the same number of sides
Ex: press A if they are both animals, B if they are both people, C if
they are both inanimate objects (which could be further decanted into
different categories such as "tools," "food," "vehicles," etc.), or D
if they are abstract. The possibilities are endless!

4#. Orgin: Polar
Idea: Individualized variable-back (name coined by myself, however
something more original could probably work better - polar?)
- Variable N-back on performed on different modalities simultaenously
(QUAD 4-back= sound is 2, image 3, color 4, positiion 1 ---> and this
would be randomly generated)

5#. Orgin: likeprestige
Idea: Follow position directions to workout n-level -
**n 4-n-back, upon presentation of the first position stimuli, the
user will need to transform its location in accordance with
aparticular rule.
--> 4-back:
- 1st stimuli = presented middle left on the 3X3 matrix
- 1st rule = (presented using arrows normally) up, right, right, left,
left, down, down.
- New position = presented bottom left on the 3X3 matrix

After following the above rule, the 1st presented stimuli is no longer
located -middle left- on the 3X3 matrix. It's new location, based on
the instructions of the rule, is now, -bottom left-. This means that
the user no longer needs to remember -middle left-, for the new
location of the first presented position stimuli is now, - bottom left
- , based on following the presented rule.
- 2nd stimuli = presented top right on the 3X3 matrix
- 2nd rule = left, right, left, left
- New position = presented top left on the 3X3 matrix
- 3rd stimuli = presented middle bottom on the 3X3 matrix
- 3rd rule = left, right, left, up
- New position = presented middle left on the 3X3 matrix
- 4th stimuli = presented middle righton the 3X3 matrix
- 4th rule = up, left, left
- New position = presented top left on the 3X3 matrix
So, as a result of transforming each stimuli by using their
corresponding rules, the new string of position stimuli on 4n-back is
now:
1st - bottom left
2nd - top left
3rd - middle left
4th - top left
Meaning, that if all other settings are set to default (no other
manipulations on the string, which would be the case for variable,
crab etc) and the next position stimuli to presented is - bottom left
- , then this would be a match, because as described, after following
the rule, -middle left - (location of the1st presented position
stimuli) is replaced by - bottom left-.

6#. Orgin: argumzio
Idea: Cognitive dissonance - my own choosing - I'll let argumzio go
ahead and correct me here if he so chooses :-)
**Essentially, with the mode engaged, at random trials, one will have
to provide the _opposite response_ one would normally have to
provide.
E.g., let's say a red circle appears in the middle square. In that
case, if there was a match n-items ago, you're supposed to ignore it;
if there wasn't a match n-items ago, you're to provide a response as
if there was one. This should serve as an additional attention
component
to the task.

7#. Orgin: Polar
Idea: spinback software - or something akin to what is offered

8#. Orgin: Research/unknown
Idea: Gabor stimuli

9#. Orgin: Research/unknown
Idea: emotional stimuli

10#. Orgin: likeprestige, however it was others that served as the
antecedent to adding additional stimuli (triple, quad, pent - n-back)
Idea: Increase the amount of stimuli simultaenously presented - I hope
to increase this to 6+ different sounds (no possible match/conflict)
and 9+ different images/positions

11#. Origin: Research/unknown
Idea: Chein implementation

Ideas related to BW aesthetic -

#1. Origin: Absent_minded
idea: more detailed error feedback? E.g. if

you get a wrong answer it will tell you, say at the top of the screen
what n-back it was.

--> What other user data could be plotted do you guys think that it

wouldn't be so redundant to incorporate a graphing tool similar to
http://www.google.com/publicdata/home

#2. Origin: cyberslaw
idea: I would like to see a timer that tells you how long you've been

playing on any given day or at least on the current day.

Anymore ideas folks?

I should let yal know that logic and popularity are the criteria that
will make an idea prevail with regards to whether or not I'll
implement it. So, if these two criterion are not met I'm just going to
commit to working on what I would like to see:
Idea number 2, 5 and 10 (origin = likeprestige), as well as 4 (origin
= polar).

TO ADD: In regards to "logic" and "popularity", I would seriously
commit to implementing an idea if there was 1, either a really good
reason to, or 2, at least _more than 6_ people (considering BW has
been downloaded over 75,000 I really don't think that's too much to
ask, lol) who wanted to see the idea implemented.

Take care and I look forward to reading any responses.

Over and out!

genvirO

P.S - I once again encourage others to whom are interested in
contributing in some way to raise your hands. It is certainly more
motivating, at least for me, if I'm working along side others.
Remember, a persons help doesn't have to involve programming, if
that's what they choose, because there is a lot of other things that
go into it, researching bits and pieces, and so on.

On Nov 21, 11:34 pm, Sameer Khan <khanza...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> it would be great to see something likehttp://cognitivefun.net/test/21but
> with variation to improve WM and reading speed :D.
>
> may be with a increasing timer or something. the lines can be pulled from
> wikipedia given certain topic
>

[γενβιρΟ]

12#. Origin: Sameer Khan / cognitivefun.net
Idea: Reading span task

13#. Origin: shitsumeisha/ cognitivefun.net
Idea: spatial working memory updating

Ok, well, if people want they can continue with the ideas but it kind
seems like there's "too much cereal in the supermarket to decide which
one is best", so maybe its time to employ some convergent thinking?

It'd be great if people could start mentioning what they "don't want
to see", as this may help with "what just doesn't work" and
eventually "what we would like to see out of the favored mix".

Something as simple as the following would be appreciated, even better
if you can state a good reason as to why:
"Idea 99#. I don't think this is a good idea"

Thank you.

I'll check back in about a week, take care.

:-)

> wouldn't be so redundant to incorporate a graphing tool similar tohttp://www.google.com/publicdata/home

[amy]

Can you please be a dear and explain #11 and #7?

Thank you!

All the best,

amy

On Nov 22, 2:25 pm, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 12#. Origin: Sameer Khan / cognitivefun.net
> Idea: Reading span task
>
> 13#. Origin: shitsumeisha/ cognitivefun.net
> Idea:  spatial working memory updating
>
> Ok, well, if people want they can continue with the ideas but it kind
> seems like there's "too much cereal in the supermarket to decide which
> one is best", so maybe its time to employ some convergent thinking?
>
> It'd be great if people could start mentioning what they "don't want
> to see", as this may help with "what just doesn't work"  and
> eventually "what we would like to see out of the favored mix".
>
> Something as simple as the following would be appreciated, even better
> if you can state a good reason as to why:
> "Idea 99#. I don't think this is a good idea"
>
> Thank you.
>
> I'll check back in about a week, take care.
>
> :-)
>

[shitsumeisha]

On Nov 23, 2:46 pm, amy <sensesat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Can you please be a dear and explain #11 and #7?

#11 is a complex working memory task
-remember items presented one after the other that later need to be
recalled (as a span task)
-in between items there is a simple decision task (unrelated to the
items)
verbal: items are letters, lexical decision
spatial: items are positions, symmetry decision

See Figure 1 in Chein ; Morrison : Expanding the mind's
workspace:Training and transfer effects with
a complex working memory span task. 2010. (http://jtoomim.org/brain-
training/expanding%20the%20minds%20workspace.pdf)

[γενβιρΟ]

Bonjour madame,

Spinback software -
http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/ac01e4915f1cf05e/e496421bfec95bbd?lnk=gst&q=spinback#e496421bfec95bbd

Vous êtes les bienvenus!

[whoisbambam]

so is this chein stuff promising, or what?

if so, i really wish we could get it implemented.

[γενβιρΟ]

As previously mentioned, if a person can make a convincing case for
why it should be implemented and why it can't be substituted for other
BW options (arithmetic n-back - springs to mind - mentioned before),
it should stand to reason that this idea or any other, be implemented
above all others, if this condition is met. One other thing that will
rock the boat is that of popularity (6+ votes), but its probably
better to be comfortable with the prospect of favoring reason (logic)
over popular opinion.

:-)

[Sameer Khan]

I would like to see auto increase in speed as it with DnB level. if you fail three attempts or it increase your time else with each successful attempt decrease time few sec.

thanks

[Windt]

If possible, the next brain workshop should have a digit span-reverse
and forward-game. Something similar to what cognitive fun has. A
different study[Bickel et al.] has shown that this working memory task-
reverse digit span-has beneficial results for people who struggle with
addiction or implusive behavior.

On Nov 25, 7:12 am, Sameer Khan <khanza...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I would like to see auto increase in speed as it with DnB level. if you
> fail three attempts or it increase your time else with each successful
> attempt decrease time few sec.
>
> thanks
>

> >http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Arky]

I bet Pontus wants a button that instantly falsifies Moody et al.

On Nov 4, 8:18 am, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In January of next year I hope to start working on some Brain Workshop
> additions. I'm going to post a list of possible BW implementations
> that I've sourced from previous discussions in about two weeks time.
> I'm hoping that I can get some discussion on how some of these ideas
> should be ranked from 'most important' to 'least important' in terms
> of what people would like to see in BW.
>
> Between now and then I'll fire off an email to Jonathan to see what's
> happening with the "Chien CWM" implementation. In the meantime, I
> welcome people to discuss anything related to an idea that they may
> like to see in Brain Workshop.
>
> :-)
>
> Speak to you all in two weeks (brief two week trip away).
>
> Regards,
>
> genvirO
>
> P.S - I don't want any money for this. Am I a saint? Good heavens no,
> but I do like learning and so this should definitely keep me busy over
> the holiday break!

[Amy Robinson]

It would be interesting to explore experiments of the quantified self
domain as they pertain to how who I am changes over time. What I
discover, the evolution of "new," Interests, curiosities, use of free
time, side projects, work projects, etc what quantifies who one is and
what if anything might that say about your neural networks, the state
of your brain, body? How do you change over time? When you learn
something new, it affects future thoughts; certain ones. Can we
measure what is "valuable" by what each of us individually endeavors
to achieve or places the most emphasis and passion into. Open
thinking season. What is a Brain Workshop, anyway?

Wild

Amy

[γενβιρΟ]

P.S - thanks for being the first person to contribute to the category
framed as "whacky or wild!" I encourage others to try and out do this
_sincere_ proposal!

On Nov 26, 7:43 pm, Amy Robinson <amyleerobin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It would be interesting to explore experiments of the quantified self
> domain as they pertain to how who I am changes over time. What I
> discover, the evolution of "new,"  Interests, curiosities, use of free
> time, side projects, work projects, etc what quantifies who one is and
> what if anything might that say about your neural networks, the state
> of your brain, body?  How do you change over time?  When you learn
> something new, it affects future thoughts; certain ones.  Can we
> measure what is "valuable" by what each of us individually endeavors
> to achieve or places the most emphasis and passion into.  Open
> thinking season. What is a Brain Workshop, anyway?
>
> Wild
>
> Amy
>

[γενβιρΟ]

I like the idea myself, it's been suggested in the past actually,
however I'm not sure if a rotating cube of the sort is possible to
implement using python, even if you can, I imagine that the graphical
representation may be pretty shoddy. Python is the only language I'm
familiar with at the moment, just for kicks though I'll look into it.

On Dec 4, 4:50 am, trialanderror <guids...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder if it could be possible doing 3-dimensional n-back, with a
> 3*3*3 cube. The task would consist in telling wheter the present
> stimulus matches the n-back one's column and/or row and/or "deepness
> row".

[γενβιρΟ]

Ahh ok, sorry bad assumption. I see what you mean now, just 3 solid
faces. Yeah, I suppose something similar to it (maybe we might think
of something better, not sure) could be done using python

Cheers!

On Dec 4, 10:52 pm, trialanderror <guids...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4 Dic, 04:35, ãåíâéñÏ <dicone...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I like the idea myself, it's been suggested in the past actually,
> > however I'm not sure if a rotating cube of the sort is possible to
> > implement using python,
>

> Why rotating? I meant a prospective one.

[dualnback]

Hi γενβιρΟ,

I have two suggestions for BW:

1) A Bokstaven (like) task. See this url,
http://ki.se/ki/jsp/polopoly.jsp?l=en&d=130&a=125269&newsdep=130 and
read the short article, and then look at the bottom of the page where
there is a link to the game referenced in the article. The game is
called Bokstaven. It is a working memory task that the Karolinska
Institute's research suggests works. Take a look at the sample
version that they have online, and if you could implement a regular
version on BW that would be great. In any case let me know what you
think.

2)) Inspection Time task: This is the one task I cannot find on the
net except at mybraintrainer.com. Since I don't want to join my
braintrainer merely for this task, it would be good if a version of it
could be added to BW. Inspection time seems to correlate highly with
Gf, so I think it would be a good addition to BW.

Thanks.

[cyberslaw]

okay, have you seen this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2icXKLtwtU&feature=share,
maybe it could be incorporated in to dnb something like visual
arithmetic?

[où sont les Neigedens d'antan?]

I was wondering, if Brain Workshop used the numbers 1-9 (for DNB)
instead of the letters it does use, would the absence of rhyming
auditory stimuli: 1) make the task easier, and, 2) confer the same
benefits? It seems to me that, at my maximum n-back (currently 8),
the problem I run into most frequently is inadvertently swapping
rhyming letters in the current 'frame'. For example, I'll
inadvertently switch R-C-T-T-E-L-F-R to R-T-C-T-E-L-F-R (or something
like that). I strongly suspect that I could jump a level or two
almost immediately if there were no rhyming audio stimuli, but I'd be
concerned that there might be a difference in the required resolution
that might render the task less beneficial.

[shitsumeisha]

On Dec 19, 6:12 am, où sont les Neigedens d'antan?

<jlambert5...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was wondering, if Brain Workshop used the numbers 1-9 (for DNB)
> instead of the letters it does use,

In the config.ini file of Brain Workshop search for this:

# This selects which sounds to use for audio n-back tasks.
# Select any combination of letters, numbers, the NATO Phonetic
Alphabet
# (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, etc), the C scale on piano, and morse code.
# AUDIO1_SETS = ['letters', 'morse', 'nato', 'numbers', 'piano']
AUDIO1_SETS = ['letters']

Change 'letters' to 'numbers'.

[Mike]

Hi γενβιρΟ, thanks for improving BW. I might want to help you guys with that some time soon. I will tell you, later. I have to read about python. 

1. where is the code in the BW folders? 
2. could I modify it already, by just opening the file and changing characters, using a python editor?

==

I tried thinking about improvements for BW. as of now I came up with 3 main ideas. (I think I'm still playing with an older version of BW (4.5) so disregard if this is already implemented.)

it's not very concise but just skip to the underlined parts.

1/novelty of games is the most important:

force people to try all the different modes, at least one new game every session.

just --> a new variant pops up (maybe with a message on top in red font), you can escape if you want.

2/a fixed, "graded mode": (based on A/20 sessions B/at a fixed DNB variant, with fixed parameters (default options) C/no esc key allowed (it just won't work in "graded mode"))

add to the graph --> basically just a new line for that fixed mode grade

(for the 20 first sessions, no esc. key allowed during those 10 first sessions or maybe this is actually not a big deal? no it's good for test taking. adds stress)

after the first 20 sessions in a mode you are in fixed mode until you press escape during a game.

when settings change (eg you make trials shorter): it's a new game. it should be a new graph with a fixed mode line.

3/a function (a key in the BW interface) to switch between 2 or 3 different config.ini files. configDefault.ini, config2.ini, config3.ini

that way you can easily switch between variants that you like without having to search through 5 layers of folders and then finding the paragraph.

3 keys to directly open those 3 config.ini file so everyone is aware that you're supposed to modify that file for increased fun.

add to the graph  --> for each variant (DNB, QNB, ComboNB etc.), a different line associated to the "graded mode" of each config files

as I said in another thread I think all new tasks and variants are great and good for your brain, and I think everyone should play them all.

summary: I thought, besides diversity of variants, that a great addition would be to have a "graded mode" based on 1/20 sessions 2/at a fixed DNB variant, with fixed parameters (default options) 3/no esc key allowed, "you break it you bought it", it would add stress and force you to do your best and focus for real not just play lazily).

explanation: the advantage of such a graded mode would be to track minute improvements at a given n-back variant more accurately over months (I think the blue line is almost useless if like me you play a different number of sessions everytime, and you change parameters in the config file). personally I go back to the soakyourhead.com website every once in a while to play a 20 game session with fixed parameters in order to track my improvements over months, by graphing the score they give you at the end of 20 sessions. it's good because it's a little stressful and you want to perform well. without that grading dimension it's easy to play without really training, just staying in your comfort zone. I think this could happen to a lot of people. I think that this graded mode should be activated by default for your first 20 sessions, but you should be able to escape it if you don't feel like it. in "non graded mode" I think it's great to have the esc. key, eg if you want to try playing a new level that you can barely score 50% at. I think that's very important and good for your brain; I think training at a level too hard for you is the best WM training so I wouldn't remove the esc key from the regular mode.

thanks and speak to you soon for coding.

[où sont les Neigedens d'antan?]

awesome! Thanks so much!

[The.Fourth.Deviation.]

a very important feature that is missing: BW needs to chart how many
sessions have been completed over a period of time, the same way it
shows nback performance.

[The.Fourth.Deviation.]

Another essential feature is the ability to create a training
schedule. I get tired of switching between modes, and the necessity of
changing the settings reduces the likelihood that I do all of the
different modes.

Users should have the ability to setup a queue of modes, and how many
sessions each mode should run, before automatically switching to the
next. E.G. I want 6 sessions of DNB, 6 sessions of QNB, 6 sessions of
QCVNB, etc.

I believe that this, along with my previous suggestion of charting the
users frequency of training stats (minutes per day, sessions per day,
etc) are fundamentally important and necessary additions.

On Nov 4, 9:26 pm, Absent_Minded <absent-min...@hotmail.ca> wrote:
> Would it be a bad idea to add a more detailed error feedback? E.g. if

> you get a wrong answer it will tell you, say at the top of the screen
> what n-back it was.
>

> Or how about a create-profile option so it opens up the option for a
> more detailed logging of progress.  E.g. It would be cool if you can
> create another sub-profile in a user-profile for certain customized
> manual modes where logging of progress is possible.

[Mike]

BW needs to chart how many
sessions have been completed over a period of time, the same way it
shows nback performance 

+1

although I'm not sure if you mean...

1. a new graph of number of sessions (number of games, all variants comprised) per day over the months (which I think could be excellent for keeping motivation, too), or:
2. there should be another line that charts average level against number of games. (as I said in a comment above)

in both cases it's a good idea. performance data is always useful to look at. the more graphs the better.

my post above is way too long, the most important idea was to basically

1. have a graded mode of 20 sessions with no escape key allowed (the goal is to measure your performance more scientifically/accurately in a more stressful, test/exam context, not just your best/mostlucky games)
2. add a new line (green) that graphs the average level for those 20 sessions in "graded mode", over the days/months (by having such a line you will be able to see if you improved your WM performance by even just a little everyday (eg let's say one day you could stay on your hardest level 2 times more than the day before --> therefore you will see an improvement of let's say .06 on the "graded mode line (green?)") which could motivate us to continue to train for raising that WM average (which is what matters over time) not just your max level (influenced by luck))
3. and also: add, to each graph for each variant, a new line (yellow, brown, grey, etc.) each time a parameter in BW or in the config file is changed (eg with/without variable levels, a new speed of trial, changing from letters to numbers or piano sounds)--because otherwise you're comparing apples and pears so you can't see your improvement.

2011/12/21 The.Fourth.Deviation. <david...@gmail.com>

[Mike]

Users should have the ability to setup a queue of modes 

+1 to this!

charting the users frequency of training stats

+1 here also, really important for keeping motivation

[Mike]

the graded mode and corresponding graph I describe could 1/help keep motivation but could also 2/help to identify better what influences your performance over the days, in the case you reached your plateau a long time ago.

--> you could assess better if 1/such and such supplement, or 2/boosting your testosterone, or 3/the amount of sleep you got 4/(etc., etc.) affects your WM performance. 

that would be pretty neat. right now it's hard to assess your DNB performance precisely.

2011/12/21 Mike <mike...@gmail.com>

[The.Fourth.Deviation.]

On a separate note, can you please create a thread on your experiences
training with variable arithmetic n back? and what do you do in order
to deal with decimals?
Also, I think Arithmetic mode should have more operations on 2 digit
and 1 digit numbers, and 2 digit by 2 digit numbers. I also think that
there should be a mode that eliminates decimals, except for maybe .5.
Other decimals are difficult to calculate in such a short span,
especially when dealing with division problems.


On Nov 17, 10:59 pm, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> i don't want money.
>
> 2 reasons
>
> #1. I'm not an expert, so it will probably take me longer than the
> average 'certified' programmer. As well as this, I don't really need
> it.
>
> #2. I just want to contribute something
>
> yes, python and I have become well acquainted with each other over the
> last few months.
>
> :-)
>
> it may have understandably slipped ur mind, but this was discussed a
> little while ago. Anyways..
>
> Arithmetic-n-back suggestions:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training/browse_thread/thread/45...
>
> what have i changed since this last post?
>
> i now train with _variable_ arithmetic n-back, so this mode is with
> the exclusion of position n-back, contrary to how i used to train.
>
> if you have any more questions or suggestions about this mode, just
> give a shout out.
>
> "i think khanacademy has an intro course "
>
> this is how i started out, although its not in-depth, it is a good
> stepping stone.
>
> p.s - i hope i didn't come across as rude, but if anyone wants to help
> contribute with the programming side of things or whatever, please
> don't hesitate in providing some input.
>
> On Nov 18, 3:39 pm, whoisbambam <a...@horseracingfirm.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I would like to try the chien implementation.
>
> > In regard to arithmetic Nback, I have only tried arithmetic nback1,
> > wherein it is multiplication, division, subtraction, up to 12, no
> > negatives.
>
> > i needed to review my 12s times tables.
>
> > what are your recommendations on arithmetic nback?
>
> > In regard to chien, I had tried to get ppl to make donations to get
> > the fire going.
>
> > I suppose we could dontate money to you via paypal to implement this?
>
> > I am assuming u know python? i think khanacademy has an intro course
>
> > On Nov 17, 10:33 pm, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > p.s
>
> > > for his own reasons, jonathan hasn't replied to my email, so if people
> > > want the chien implementation to be a priority, make it known.
> > > personally, i'd rather not have it as a priority because i feel that
> > > arithmetic-n-back and its variations does a similar job for less cost
> > > (time it takes to implement), but that's just my take on it.
>
> > > On Nov 18, 3:25 pm, γενβιρΟ <carsthatdr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > pick up yo walkie-talkies!
>
> > > > quick messagO:
>
> > > > will post a list by this coming tuesday.
>
> > > > keep the suggestions coming, like what i'm hearing so far.
>
> > > > hopefully this egg isn't dropped because i'm eager to hear other ideas
> > > > (throw egg back).
>
> > > > over and OUT! Shhhh (sound of walkie-talkie tuning out)...

>
> > > > On Nov 5, 9:34 pm, cyberslaw <cybers...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > I would like to see a timer that tells you how long you've been
> > > > > playing on any given day or at least on the current day.
>

> > > > > On 5 нов, 04:29, Absent_Minded <absent-min...@hotmail.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > > > e.g. What if you could superimpose a certain n-back training over a
> > > > > > different game mode to see if there are any correlations?

[Mike]

me? or GenvirO? 

personally I did what GenvirO told us a few months ago: disable division in the config file.

I guess I should try to play with division now, but it was really frustrating when I tried it.

==

• for multiplication with 2 digits by 2 digits --> you can determine the max digit in the config.ini file. it's true though that a good feature would be to enable multiplication to be "said" during an arithmetic n-back session only when it's a 1 digit by a 2 digit (personally I can't do 2 digits fast enough, yet :) so I would need to disable it for now)
• for division you could do the same: allow division to be said only when it's checked in the code that the answer would be a round number or a .5, as you said. that would be sweet.
• for division maybe a new feature would be to accept 0.1 rounding (does it accept them now, I don't know actually). playing with divisions would involve a lot of memorizing, which I think can never be bad for math/numbers iq wise (memorizing division tables... )
• square roots (easy ones), powers (of 2 and 3), ... functions other than +-/* could be added, always after checking in the code that the answer is reasonably computable or memorizable by a human.

==

this makes me think (I don't think it's such a good idea at all for now but) :

• BW could be used for memorizing flash cards, like supermemo or mnemosyne (I never used them... I should). --> you press match (G key) when an answer matches a question
• you would upload many sets of flash cards in the BW folders (eg medical facts for medical students, common derivatives, cos and sin values of trig angles, conversions inches into feet into miles). and then you select which one you want to practice. it's not a completely shitty idea but I think it might be too much trouble for now.

this all seems so trivial when you think that we might have direct neuronal access to the web (Wikipedia and databases like Wolfram Alpha) very soon, in just a few years from now. anyhow it's not wasted time to enhance ourselves for the remaining period.

btw did you try Siri the iPhone app? --> it's pretty impressive how it can answer any factual question using Wolfram Alpha. simple, yet pretty impressive when you think about it.

==

as for my subjective experience with Arithmetic n-back: it's pretty simple: I don't get as "high" with Arithmetic n-back as with Quad Combo Variable n-back with shorter trials (2.5 seconds --> still haven't passed 3 at that speed although very close :P)

I started Arithmetic n-back about 2 weeks ago only. Arithmetic n-back is great for practicing (and memorizing) mental math. I'm going over college math on KhanAcademy.org right now, and I constantly make inattention mistakes when I try to go to fast doing algebra --> so it's somehow useful for me (I believe improving your mental math is a substantial Gf/IQ boost so not totally pointless). but it doesn't give the same "ritalin boost" as Quad Combo Variable n-back (probably the real Gf boost, the important stuff, (ie the intelligence motor, the buffer size)). Quad Combo Variable n-back remains by far the best variant to wake me up I feel. personally.

a peculiar effect of playing too much arithmetic n-back in the last 2 weeks was that --> I would hear what people said but it would take me a few seconds to understand them, or at least I would be more conscious of the delay. I think this was due to the heavy use of my phono loop (to keep track of numbers), which I hadn't really used that intensively before except with piano sounds (as I described in other threads: at arithmetic n-back I'm keeping track of the sounds of numbers and updating by rehearsing, without really understanding what numbers I'm rehearsing until I do an operation, and that's how I get better results/higher level).

I would clearly rank (Tri V.) Arithmetic n-back second after (Quad V.) Combo in terms of boosting Gf (WM, central executive and concentration). I can't say it enough --> Combo V n-back feels like a massage to your neurons, it almost gives you vertigo or a drowsy feeling because of WM overload (and especially central executive overload), and after it you want to clear your TODO list.

I think it gives a better WM workout in part because 1/the task is very intense (comparing--not just holding--items in WM) and creates central executive overload (not just WM overload), but also because 2/that variant is more fun so in my case I play at my max. since arithmetic is very fun for me too, but I don't get as high with it, --> I would tend to say 1/ is the main reason why Combo n-back is so beneficial.

[Mike]

me? or GenvirO? 

personally I did what GenvirO told us a few months ago: disable division in the config file.

I guess I should try to play with division now, but it was really frustrating when I tried it.

==

• for multiplication with 2 digits by 2 digits --> you can determine the max digit in the config.ini file. it's true though that a good feature would be to enable multiplication to be "said" during an arithmetic n-back session onlywhen it's a 1 digit by a 2 digit (personally I can't do 2 digits fast enough, yet :) so I would need to disable it for now)

• for division you could do the same: allow division to be said only when it's checked in the code that the answer would be a round number or a .5, as you said. that would be sweet.
• for division maybe a new feature would be to accept 0.1 rounding (does it accept them now, I don't know actually). playing with divisions would involve a lot of memorizing, which I think can never be bad for math/numbers iq wise (memorizing division tables... )
• square roots (easy ones), powers (of 2 and 3), ... functions other than +-/* could be added, always after checking in the code that the answer is reasonably computable or memorizable by a human.

==

this makes me think (I don't think it's such a good idea at all for now but) :

• BW could be used for memorizing flash cards, like supermemo or mnemosyne (I never used them... I should). --> you press match (G key) when an answer matches a question
• you would upload many sets of flash cards in the BW folders (eg medical facts for medical students, common derivatives, cos and sin values of trig angles, conversions inches into feet into miles). and then you select which one you want to practice. it's not a completely shitty idea but I think it might be too much trouble for now.

this all seems so trivial when you think that we might have direct neuronal access to the web (Wikipedia and databases like Wolfram Alpha) very soon, in just a few years from now. anyhow it's not wasted time to enhance ourselves for the remaining period.

btw did you try Siri the iPhone app? --> it's pretty impressive how it can answer any factual question using Wolfram Alpha. simple, yet pretty impressive when you think about it.

==

as for my subjective experience with Arithmetic n-back: I don't get as "high" with Arithmetic n-back as with Quad Combo Variable n-back with shorter trials (2.5 seconds --> still haven't passed 3 at that speed although very close :P)

I started Arithmetic n-back about 2 weeks ago only. Arithmetic n-back is great for practicing (and memorizing) mental math. I'm going over college math on KhanAcademy.org right now, and I constantly make inattention mistakes when I try to go to fast doing algebra --> so it's somehow useful for me (I believe improving your mental math is a substantial Gf/IQ boost so not totally pointless). but it doesn't give the same "ritalin boost" as Quad Combo Variable n-back (probably the real Gf boost, the important stuff, (ie the intelligence motor, the buffer size)). Quad Combo Variable n-back remains by far the best variant to wake me up I feel. personally.

a peculiar effect of playing too much arithmetic n-back in the last 2 weeks was that --> I would hear what people said but it would take me a few seconds to understand them, or at least I would be more conscious of the delay. I think this was due to the heavy use of my phono loop (to keep track of numbers), which I hadn't really used that intensively before except with piano sounds (as I described in other threads: at arithmetic n-back I'm keeping track of the sounds of numbers and updating by rehearsing, without really understanding what numbers I'm rehearsing until I do an operation, and that's how I get better results/higher level).

I would clearly rank (Tri V.) Arithmetic n-back second after (Quad V.) Combo in terms of boosting Gf (WM, central executive and concentration). I can't say it enough --> Combo V n-back feels like a massage to your neurons, it almost gives you vertigo or a drowsy feeling because of WM overload (and especially central executive overload), and after it you want to clear your TODO list.

I think it gives a better WM workout in part because 1/the task is very intense (comparing--not just holding--items in WM) and creates central executive overload (not just WM overload), but also because 2/that variant is more fun so in my case I play at my max. since arithmetic is very fun for me too, but I don't get as high with it, --> I would tend to say 1/ is the main reason why Combo n-back is so beneficial.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:38 PM, The.Fourth.Deviation. <david...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mike]

me? or GenvirO? 

personally I did what GenvirO told us a few months ago: disable division in the config file.

I guess I should try to play with division now, but it was really frustrating when I tried it.

==

• for multiplication with 2 digits by 2 digits --> you can determine the max digit in the config.ini file. it's true though that a good feature would be to enable multiplication to be "said" during an arithmetic n-back session onlywhen it's a 1 digit by a 2 digit (personally I can't do 2 digits fast enough, yet :) so I would need to disable it for now)
• for division you could do the same: allow division to be said only when it's checked in the code that the answer would be a round number or a .5, as you said. that would be sweet.
• for division maybe a new feature would be to accept 0.1 rounding (does it accept them now, I don't know actually). playing with divisions would involve a lot of memorizing, which I think can never be bad for math/numbers iq wise (memorizing division tables... )
• square roots (easy ones), powers (of 2 and 3), ... functions other than +-/* could be added, always after checking in the code that the answer is reasonably computable or memorizable by a human.

==

this makes me think (I don't think it's such a good idea at all for now but) :

• BW could be used for memorizing flash cards, like supermemo or mnemosyne (I never used them... I should). --> you press match (G key) when an answer matches a question
• you would upload many sets of flash cards in the BW folders (eg medical facts for medical students, common derivatives, cos and sin values of trig angles, conversions inches into feet into miles). and then you select which one you want to practice. it's not a completely shitty idea but I think it might be too much trouble for now.

this all seems so trivial when you think that we might have direct neuronal access to the web (Wikipedia and databases like Wolfram Alpha) very soon, in just a few years from now. anyhow it's not wasted time to enhance ourselves for the remaining period.

btw did you try Siri the iPhone app? --> it's pretty impressive how it can answer any factual question using Wolfram Alpha. simple, yet pretty impressive when you think about it.

==

as for my subjective experience with Arithmetic n-back: I don't get as "high" with Arithmetic n-back as with Quad Combo Variable n-back with shorter trials (2.5 seconds --> still haven't passed 3 at that speed although very close :P)

I started Arithmetic n-back about 2 weeks ago only. Arithmetic n-back is great for practicing (and memorizing) mental math. I'm going over college math on KhanAcademy.org right now, and I constantly make inattention mistakes when I try to go to fast doing algebra --> so it's somehow useful for me (I believe improving your mental math is a substantial Gc/IQ boost so not totally pointless). but it doesn't give the same "ritalin boost" as Quad Combo Variable n-back (probably the real Gf boost, the important stuff, (ie the intelligence motor, the buffer size)). Quad Combo Variable n-back remains by far the best variant to wake me up I feel. personally.

a peculiar effect of playing too much arithmetic n-back in the last 2 weeks was that --> I would hear what people said but it would take me a few seconds to understand them, or at least I would be more conscious of the delay. I think this was due to the heavy use of my phono loop (to keep track of numbers), which I hadn't really used that intensively before except with piano sounds (as I described in other threads: at arithmetic n-back I'm keeping track of the sounds of numbers and updating by rehearsing, without really understanding what numbers I'm rehearsing until I do an operation, and that's how I get better results/higher level).

I would clearly rank (Tri V.) Arithmetic n-back second after (Quad V.) Combo in terms of boosting Gf (WM, central executive and concentration). I can't say it enough --> Combo V n-back feels like a massage to your neurons, it almost gives you vertigo or a drowsy feeling because of WM overload (and especially central executive overload), and after it you want to clear your TODO list.

I think it gives a better WM workout in part because 1/the task is very intense (comparing--not just holding--items in WM) and creates central executive overload (not just WM overload), but also because 2/that variant is more fun so in my case I play at my max. since arithmetic is very fun for me too, but I don't get as high with it, --> I would tend to say 1/ is the main reason why Combo n-back is so beneficial.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 1:38 PM, The.Fourth.Deviation. <david...@gmail.com> wrote:

[shitsumeisha]

variable-stim n-back: on every trial, certain stimuli may be missing.
This trial then does not count for the stimuli missing.

With maximum two stimuli: two columns for stimuli, '-' meaning no
stimulus; two columns for matches, 'x' match and '-' no match:

trial 1: Aa --
trial 2: B- --
trial 3: Ab x-
trial 4: Ca -x <= stimulus 2 matches trial 1
trial 5: -b -x
trial 6: Cb -- <= stimulus 1 doesn't match trial 4
trial 7: -c -- <= stiumulus 1 doesn't match, 'missing' is not a
special stimulus

[UOchris1]

genvirO,
I'd love to see an incorporation of the Stroop Task.  It would very
much tax attentional control and task switching within a STM memory
paradigm and I think it could potentially very effective for improving
Gf.
Briefly it would have:     Visual stimuli---the words: RED, BLUE,
GREEN, ORANGE, YELLOW, PURPLE colored (with the same and at random of
course)       Auditory stimuli---the spoken words: "red", "blue", etc 
   Keyboard inputs--- the keys: 'A', 'S', 'J', 'L'     THREE CUES---
Color or Word or Audio
It would take too man words to explain, so I made a quick diagram with
arrows and put it into a PDF. Here's the link:
http://www.satorithruscience.org/miscellaneous/brainworkshop/stroopnback.pdf
What do you think?
Chris G

[karnautrahl]

Simple advancement on the variable n back suggested time ago.

Independent shifting variables.

Divide centre grid into four. Numbers in blue or upper left are
position, top right number or letter, bottom right colour etc.

Impossible I think to play :)

On Dec 27, 11:05 pm, UOchris1 <socrate...@gmail.com> wrote:
> genvirO,
> I'd love to see an incorporation of the Stroop Task.  It would very
> much tax attentional control and task switching within a STM memory
> paradigm and I think it could potentially very effective for improving
> Gf.
> Briefly it would have:     Visual stimuli---the words: RED, BLUE,
> GREEN, ORANGE, YELLOW, PURPLE colored (with the same and at random of
> course)       Auditory stimuli---the spoken words: "red", "blue", etc
>    Keyboard inputs--- the keys: 'A', 'S', 'J', 'L'     THREE CUES---
> Color or Word or Audio
> It would take too man words to explain, so I made a quick diagram with

> arrows and put it into a PDF. Here's the link:http://www.satorithruscience.org/miscellaneous/brainworkshop/stroopnb...

> What do you think?
> Chris G

[Blackened]

I've not read the other posts, sorry if it's mentioned already.

Adding a free fluid intelligence test in Brain Workshop would be
revolutionary, if done right. Getting it right is the hard part. If
you manage to do it right, we'll have accurate information for the
increase of fluid intelligence, by having the program to recommend the
users to upload their results anonymously (all done automatically).
However, doing the same test many times might increase the performance
on that particular test, so it must be done carefully. Also, some
users might use third-party help for their test, and some users might
neglect the test and do it too quickly.

Also, adding a test for executive functions would be useful.

[deftcat]

how about a visual n-Back where the objects are rotated similar to
this: http://psych.hanover.edu/JavaTest/CLE/Cognition/Cognition/MentalRotation.html

[Paul]

This idea isn't very whacky or wild, but it would be very helpful -
particularly to those who are just getting to know the science that
supports n-back training. I suggest creating an information section
that includes some of the studies on n-back and related training.

Thanks for creating such a terrific program. I intend to click the D
button later today and thank you with a donation.

Paul

[jellyroll]

I know this sounds a little whacky, but along with having colors or
numbers on the grid squares, how about photographs of faces, either
different people or different expressions? The reasons I'd like to see
this are:

1) Our brains seem to have a lot of hardwired circuitry for face
recognition (and expression recognition). Seems to be part of the
wiring for social relationships. Nobody seems to know much about
memory for it and whether it's better or worse than other kinds of
memory. It would be interesting to see if n-backing level goes up more
or less slowly than for things like colors or numbers. And if it seems
to be independent of WM span for numbers, letters, colors, or goes up
pretty much in tandem with them.

2) How about photographs of different basic facial expressions
(contempt, anger, happiness, fear) on the same person (or maybe
different people) flashed very briefly. Same rational as for number 1.
You might look at the stuff from Dr. Paul Ekman -- the micro-
expressions and lie-detection guy -- for exampoes of expressions to
use. (I think he's retired now, but he still might be interested in
the results, among others.)

3) Sequences of photographs of microexpressions involved in
establishing a truthfulness baseline and then patterns indicating
deception, flashed along the usual grid positions. I've no idea how to
incorporate it into a dual- or multi- N-back structure, but it would
be like trying to do arithmetic in the middle of a multi N-back task.

It would also be interesting to know if others on the mailing list who
figure theyre about half-way to aspergers show a deficiency in WM with
faces compared to WM with sound, color, numbers, etc.

I know the whole idea is pretty weird but you said ideas no matter how
whacky or wild. So there it is.

[Michael]

Starting next week and I'm only going to hone in on one idea for the
time being, so unless there are any last hurrah's after I read all the
messages I'll post what I'll be working on.

Take it easy and thanks for all the enthusiasm everyone, appreciated.

Michael

llison...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know this sounds a littlewhacky, but along with having colors or

[JokyBoy]

i personally think the best ones so far are
1.building n back tough direction proposed by the opner of this
thread,this is very good actually and it shouldnt conflict other modes
and could be combined.
2. Rotation -awesome idea but again should have the ability to combine
with other modes like variable and crap and such.
3. more stimulants in each n back level
more position ,images,sound and original ones too.

[Gore Lando]

An amphetamine/eclectic psychostimulant dispenser please.  I know you can make this happen.

[Michael]

"An amphetamine/eclectic psychostimulant dispenser please. I know you
can
make this happen. "

Ha ha, maybe next time!

I'm going to work on:

"4#. Orgin: Polar Idea: Individualized variable-back (name coined by
myself, however something more original could probably work better -
polar?) - Variable N-back on performed on different modalities
simultaenously (QUAD 4-back= sound is 2, image 3, color 4, positiion
1 ---> and this would be randomly generated) "

If anyone thinks that maybe something else is a better option, by all
means share your thoughts (maybe I've overlooked something), otherwise
I look forward to when I'll be able to get this done (hopefully before
uni starts).

Take it easy,

Michael

[Michael]

Don't hang up the phone!

Am I really the only one excited about this idea? I only chose it
because one, not a lot of people were on board with a particular idea
and two, I kinda see this implementation as the stand out. Am I wrong?

Think of a crazy circus and the simultaneous operations that are
occurring and changing from one second to the next in any typical
show, this is the kind of experience that individualized variable n-
back is likely to recruit!

[Włodzisław]

Do It go for the invidualized  variable n back i am for it  i think this has good potential apart from the annoyance ot get used to looking each invidual variable n.

i think its the best one.

and the second is rotation.

the next one should be rotation.