Effectiveness of N-Back

[Vitaliy]

Good afternoon, community.
What is the latest data on the effectiveness of Dual N-Back? And if it is effective, what is the best method of training?
I don't want to waste my time on something that won't pay for itself.

Thank you in advance for your answers. 

[BonBonDampling]

Hi, i'm relatively new and can speak from personal experience. Everything depends on the person, i read a lot about NBack in the beginning and usual routine is: Dual N-Back Position and Audio. But it was hard for me so i practiced single N-Back(only position or audio at one time). For some it can be that Dual will be too easy and they do triple or even quad. Just try out what works for you best. Also it's 15-20 minutes a day, so not really a waste of time.

Currently I do Triple N-Back for 30-40 minutes 2 day in a row, and rest 1 day, and repeat. if i skip more than one day I noticeably get slower at my coding work, it's harder to come up with the solutions(i still eventually finish tasks, but slower), in days i practice n-back i fastly find solution for a task in my mind, i draw abstract logic of code, avoid potential bugs, if some parts is unclear i start checking if its is possible, and correct my abstract logic accordingly, and only then i start coding. Without N-back this ability is noticeably limited, i usually just code along the way and see how it goes, and eventually finish the task. 

[Vitaliy]

Thank you for your reply.
I first got acquainted with n-back a few years ago, practicing dual one several times a day for a month. I quickly reached level 5, got into a plateau and stopped practicing. I returned to this practice from time to time.
The effects I observed are as follows.
Dreams became very vivid and detailed. The dreams also became more narrative.
Clarity of mind. More extensive perception of reality. A new self-perception as when switching to another language, when another personality is switched on.
Less emotionality. The ability to continue to think rationally under pressure. There are fewer triggers.
The problem is that all of the above effects were only at the beginning of the training, then they disappeared. 

[BonBonDampling]

From personal experience doing the same plateau level over and over again with no progress will only demotivate and then negotiate any positive effects, since you are practically repeating the same thing again and again, there is no challenge, and no progress too(since it's your plateau level for the time being). To solve this I started grinding the next modes too. For example: if your plateau is in Dual mode, start grinding Triple too. I usually start with level 2 in Triple as a warm up, then grind level 3 of Triple and then try my plateau level in Dual. My plateau level results are still very slowly progressing, but there is no 'i'm stuck' feeling anymore, because even if i didn't progress in my plateau level that day, i'm still progressing in triple level that i'm grinding.

[Vitaliy]

Thank you very much. How do you look at this option: stay on dual, but manually move to a higher level?

[Vitaliy]

Hello guys,

Also reached a plateau, and very quickly at that. Even more sessions do not lead to noticeable brain fatigue, no tingling in the frontal lobes of the brain either. Yesterday I went down to a lower level and could not get more than 80% the first time. The third and subsequent times I was able to reach close to 100%, but I could feel my brain working. After a few sessions I moved to my level - the fifth - all sessions were at the level of 50-55%, although earlier I went to the sixth with 60-70%. I moved manually to level six and got at the maximum of 50%, but a few sessions went at 30%. At the same time on the 5th and 6th levels I lost the feeling of brain work again, as if I was falling into absorbent cotton and doing automatic unconscious actions. 

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[Steinbi]

Depending on your starting point (WM capacity) and your level of mental energy, you scores can vary greatly. Looking over the history of the discussion on this board (https://groups.google.com/g/brain-training/c/kwOpW6ZpdC0), most people struggle for a long while with D4B and D5B and few people reach scores above D6B (or at least few are reported). Reaching higher N-scores usually takes time as your brain needs to "optimize" for it, for instance when you think about the amount of stimuli your brain/memory needs to manage from dual-2-back to dual-5-back : 2N = 4, 3N = 6, 4N = 8, 5N = 10, by N = 5 you are managing 10 different stimuli which is significant above the average 5-7 stimuli of the general population. As you increase the N even further you are getting into territory of very developed working memory.

Another thing to take notice of, is your program settings. If you are using the brainworkshop application, you can change the interference value and depending on the probability of the stimuli generation, sometimes you can get way harder sequences which does sometime influence the score.

Regarding the brain tingling/frontal lobe sensation, be prepared that you might not always have the same effect over time as your brain (like every other organ) tries to utilize your energy as efficiently as possible. Think of it like working out your muscles. Yes, you can hit the gym hard every day and eat a lot but the muscles can only handle a certain load and they need adequate stimuli and recovery to grow stronger. I see the brain in a similar manner, yes you can artifically increase the load to a level where you struggle, kind of like doing 1RM or heavy sets in the gym, but similarly, don't expect to then handle the low weights/stimuli then better since you will have exhausted some mental energy doing the high load stimuli. There is definitely a good middle ground and unfortunately we have not settled yet on good training programs as each individual is different and this is still uncharted territory. Generally though, for training, consider mixing it up, keep doing your standard stimuli, with manually changing to higher or lower settings. Overall, it's more about the consistency of the training. 

Speaking from my own experience, I think the brain sets some internal limitations on growth. I've noticed that intermittant training, with longer breaks, induce the most intense feeling in my brain when I return to training. But when I keep training, the feeling reduces. This indicates to me that the neural growth is somehow dampened or felt less. Changing the type of training mode could be a good way to fight this and induce a more diverse growth of neural patterns in your brain, rather than spending all your mental credits on only one pathway.

Yet another thing which can impact your score is your inherent weakness in one area. I know for instance that my visual ability is stronger than my auditory. I've done up to 7 or 8-back on single positional, but when I try the auditory, I'm stuck at 5. I've always struggled with understanding verbal lectures or even following conversations, but my visualization/spatial skills are pretty good. So, you can try to pin-point your mental weakness and focus on training that, and then return to the higher dimensional training modes.

[Vitaliy]

Thank you for such a detailed response Steinby. 
I was also thinking about internal limitations in growth and the relevance of stimuli, drawing an analogy with muscle stringing.
I use brainworkshop. I start with 4 DNBs, do a couple sessions, then move to a fifth and grind 6DNB at the end. Changes in settings: increased session duration to 3 minutes, increased speed (from 3 seconds to 2.5 seconds). My brain has perked up a bit and it's motivating.
But I dare to suggest that strategically everything is rooted in the nature of the brain: difficulty in stimulation and slow neurogenesis. In particular, the brain needs more time to recover and this is consistent with the information that the more intense the training, the lower the efficiency. That is, it is not so much the application that requires customization as the intensity of the training itself. 

[Steinbi]

I agree with your statement and am pursuing a similar strategy. Lets compare experiences end of the month. I need to figure out myself whether the speed or amount of the stimuli is enough, I've felt that the standard setting is a bit too short, perhaps I need to up the amount a bit.

Ultimately, if brain training was that easy everyone would be walking around with +2 sigma IQ levels. It's only realistic/natural that there is some effort vs reward built-in here.