So what is the average Dual N-Back scores for an ordinary adult?

[skyyrie]

I haved read many papers and news about the N-Back,and all these
recite N-back improves working memory,but how can I know what score
should an adult to make to be an '''Average'''?
Dual 3 Back?Thanks

[Ian]

The average looks to be roughly dual-5-back, looking at the 2008
study. This is after 19 days, 20 sessions. The average for the first
test looks to be around Dual-3-Back.

Now, in the study, it looks like she picked 'members of the University
of Bern community.' If this is referring to college students, then the
average IQ should be around 115. So, in roughly 3 weeks of 20 sessions/
day, you can make the statement that a person with a 115~ iq can make
2 level dual-n-back jump. That university isn't particularly famous
nor good, but it's certainly not bad. It has the distinction of being
one of the universities Einstein lectured at.

These are all very rough predictions, but I'd say you are probably
right about where you should be (dual-3-back, assuming that is what
you're at) if you have just started a few days ago.

[Pontus Granström]

I think that 5-back is roughly a 120 IQ. I even think we have seen this in our survey.

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[Pontus Granström]

However the correlation between n-back level and IQ is not that high, it's training time that correlates with IQ.

[Ian]

Pontus, is the dual-5-back for after 19 days / 20 sessions a day, or
the starting dual-n-back?

[Pontus Granström]

The level "reachable". But let me remind you, as a clinical measure n-back correlates 0.4 with IQ. So to be guaranteed of a 1.5SD above average you would have to score more than 3SD above average on n-back. However these studies
tend to stick at level 2 and 3 (percentage correct, lure trials etc), since most people can't cope at higher levels without training.

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Ian <unfunf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Pontus, is the dual-5-back for after 19 days / 20 sessions a day, or
the starting dual-n-back?

--

[whoisbambam]

this 'seems' right.

i would think that somebody with an iq of 115 could master dnb5 in
20days.

it has been closer to 200days for me.

i think anybody with an iq of 100 can also achieve dnb5 but it may
take 6months rather than 19days

i dont believe that JUST because you can do dnb5 means your IQ is 115
or higher.

[Addictive Angler]

Today would be my 3rd day of training and I hit d5b in session 2, but I have experience in my past (12 tabling online poker, occasionally with 2-3 variants). I originally begun and realized memorization was giving me trouble at 3, let alone I elevated to 4. After switching the method to intuitive, due to a bit more  reading, I found a familiar home and in 10 trials I went from 3 to 5. The awareness that I had was similar to my poker awareness where the swath of information ones receives playing multiple tables can only be dealt with, at a certain point, intuitively.

At the height of my online career I was multi-tabling 4-12 tables 16-18 hours a day, with occasional break days, on those break days I was doing fantastic writing, which ended up published work, ideas which paid dividends and a lifestyle of nearly constant good times.

I wouldn't say poker trains quite the same way as DnB, but the sub-conscious recall  is very similar. In poker I eventually reached a point where I could occasionally recall with a vivid image previous action from my subconscious, or at least things I did not recall consciously seeing  i'm curious to see if my DnB will result in something similar.

not to completely hi-jack the thread :)

[Ian]

Are you that guy who made millions of dollars playing poker while
taking piracetam and other nootropics? :P

[Działo, Christopher]

Do you have more information on this man? I've tried learning mental math, as to calculate odds when aging card games, using memory techniques to remember or figure out the odd of a person having certain cards. Apparently we call these people card coutets, but it seems rather easy to compete.

On Jun 12, 2011 11:01 PM, "Ian" <unfunf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you that guy who made millions of dollars playing poker while
> taking piracetam and other nootropics? :P
>

[Addictive Angler]

I didn't make tons of millions, but I did make a significant amount. While I played I didn't consume any pharmaceutical :)

As for calculating odds in poker: Start with charts, starting hands - ratio's received, and how those hands tend to fair... for instance in texas holdem AA vs 72(worst statistical poker hand) is still only around an 80% winner if you went all in before the flop. Those type of numbers are easy to come by online.
The mental math of cards is not challenging after you get into the game. What you need to really focus on is pattern recognition. Understand the sources of information most commonly read by your opponent. Once you know how players can think you can begin to build a series of events of their past action, that combined with a little memorization of pot odds, implied odds, and chance to hit your hand can give you a very calculation on how you should play a hand. All that being said, poker, at its highest levels is more of an art. The math becomes entirely intuitive and remembering action becomes second nature.

Online alone I had a database of 1.5 million hands played by me. I would use my stats against other results to study any deviations along the way in my game. There are more human factors that get most people as well. You need to be 100% emotionally detached from money & keeping an even mental status (not going on tilt) are a big couple.

All that being said you can play at lower levels and make a couple hundred dollars a day strictly playing a system with a a few variables after you understand the fundamentals.

p.s. in my first full intuitive session I only managed to get a high of 58% on D5B, starting from D2B and going up, but the ease of attaining D5B was significantly less challenging and felt much less stressful.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Ian <unfunf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are you that guy who made millions of dollars playing poker while
taking piracetam and other nootropics? :P

--

[skyyrie]

I appreciate your remark,and another question.Can the Dual N-back be
used as a measure to qualify the interviewers?Maybe it is a very
powerful tool,only if the subject hasnt trained it before.

[brain train]

it is likely to expel creative people..!

[Harshil Sokhadia]

Dude I started dual n back a few days ago and i had the same question. I had done by iq and it turns out to be 146!!.
IQ Test
So this was my approach ..
relax and forget about how did you progress, just go with the flow and try to figure out the answer and dont stress out!!.
The thing is if you remain on one level for a long time then your brain starts making connections and figure out patterns to excel on that level so you perform better.So for better outcome of this exercise you should oscillate between levels.

<a href="http://www.free-iqtest.net" title="IQ Test"><img src="http://www.free-iqtest.net/images/badges2/l146.gif" width="200" height="100" alt="IQ Test" border="0"></a><br/><a title="IQ Test" href="http://www.free-iqtest.net">IQ Test</a>

[hiphopo...@yahoo.com]

What is your n back level Harshil? What percentage do you normally get? Have you been on the same level for the past few days? What mode(s) do you play? Have you ever tested your reverse digit span? I'm curious to know what it is.

[Harshil Sokhadia]

I am currently on 3rd level and highest achieved by me is level 5.
I normally get percentage between 40 to 85.
I had to take a break of about a week,and by again starting the training, my level dropped down from 5 to 3.
I play the usual dual n back with position and sound.

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:11:40 PM UTC-8, hiphopo...@yahoo.com wrote:

What is your n back level Harshil? What percentage do you normally get? Have you been on the same level for the past few days? What mode(s) do you play?

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[Ryan Curnow]

I know this is old and all, so don't bother telling me.

Online IQ tests are entirely inaccurate. Essentially, whatever you get there is about 15 or 20 points above your real IQ. They're not scientifically proven. Take a supervised test. I took an online test, and got 153. When I took a supervised test, I scored 132. Regardless, I still find level 5 of Dual N-Back extremely difficult.

IQ doesn't only involve memory, but pattern recognition, problem solving, and skill of mathematics.

[Fanning]

I also played 12 sit and goes at once with positive wins. I actually won 12 (top 3 finish) in a row. I am also a chess master. These skills do not correlate to DnB. In 12 Simultaneous sit and go you need to be able to analyse and act instantly. Memory is not a factor, its all processing power. In DnB its completely auditory and visual memory. My IQ was tested at 159 and I DnB level 3 after 3 days :(.  This seems solely a way to improve visual and auditory memory.

[Ryan Curnow]

"Memory is not a factor" / "In DnB its completely auditory and visual memory". So memory isn't a factor, but memory is a factor? How does that work?

[TranquiLogic]

Isn't working memory capacity directly related to processing speed? When working memory increases, processing speed does too and vice versa. The faster the processor, the more information to work with, the smarter the individual...

[Ryan Curnow]

The speed a person can process something would be related to memory. The faster a person can process something, the quicker they can get it remembered, and move on to the next thing to remember. However, the speed a person can process information doesn't really determine how much they can remember, as a person can instantly remember one object, but then have that object fade out of their mind as soon as another one is processed.

The only way processing speed of the brain would determine a persons memory is if a person is required to remember objects quickly.

Memory isn't the only factor in intelligence, so a person can have an extremely good memory, but also be below average in terms of intelligence.