More on anti-oxidants
Gwern Branwen
"Antioxidants and Exercise: More Harm Than Good?"
> Multivitamin supplementation has been getting a rough ride in the literature, as evidence emerges that routine supplementation for most is, at best, unnecessary. Some individual vitamins are earning their own unattractive risk/benefit profiles: Products like folic acid, calcium, and beta-carotene all seem inadvisable for routine supplementation in the absence of deficiency or medical indication. Vitamin E, already on the watch list, looks increasingly problematic, with data recently published confirming the suspected association of supplementation with an elevated risk of prostate cancer.
> As it turns out, not only were the antioxidants likely ineffective, they may have compromised some of the gains I was seeking with all that training. That I didn’t evaluate the evidence at the time was my critical-thinking blind spot. Over the the past several years, more data on antioxidants and exercise have emerged. A recent review article, profiled by sports & science blogger Alex Hutchinson at his blog Sweat Science, was an opportunity to get caught up on the evidence. And there’s a lot, nicely summarized by Tina-Tinkari Peternelj and Jeff S. Coombes in this month’s Sports Medicine: Antioxidant Supplementation during Exercise Training: Beneficial or Detrimental?
> The antioxidant-exercise hypothesis is simple: exercise more, breathe more, oxidize more. Exercise can also damage muscle tissue. So the idea of boosting the antioxidant reserves to offset the perceived negative effects of exercise emerged. The expected results: better workouts and faster recovery. But like the t-shirt says, it’s a bit more complicated than that.
>
> So let’s look at the data in the paper. The authors found 150 studies, but most were small and had weak methodologies:
>
>> As commonly found in sports nutrition research, the vast majority do not adhere to all the accepted features of a high-quality trial (e.g. placebo-controlled, double-blind, randomized design with an intent-to-treat analysis). Indeed, most studies fail to provide sufficient detail regarding inclusion and exclusion criteria, justification of sample size, adverse events, data gathering and reporting, randomization, allocation and concealment methods, and an assessment of blinding success. The poor quality of the majority of studies in this field increases the possibility for bias and needs to be always considered when evaluating the findings.
>
> Summarizing the data is complicated by different supplements, different endpoints, varied durations and doses, and a lack of hard outcomes. The most common endpoint was some measure of oxidative stress, and on balance (though not always consistently) the data suggest that antioxidants do reduce this parameter. It’s been shown with vitamin C, vitamin E, beta carotene, and other antioxidants. Good news? Not really. It’s an endpoint without any demonstrated relationship to something meaningful — like performance or recovery.
> So do antioxidants have any acute benefits on exercise? Should I be selecting the energy bar with extra vitamins? The data are more consistent here — there does not appear to be strong evidence of a performance-enhancing effect when antioxidants are consumed during exercise. With some exceptions, single ingredient and multiple-product supplements including vitamins E, C, coenzyme Q10, quercetin and polyphenol resveratrol have generally failed to demonstrate consistent effects in animal and human studies. Again, the quality of the studies and the lack of reproduction of many of the trials precludes firm conclusions.
>
> Let’s consider the post-workout period now, and it’s here where we get to the most concerning data. Antioxidant supplements seem to be working against the beneficial cardiovascular effects of exercise. Mechanisms could include:
>
> - Promoting, rather than reducing, oxidative stress: In some cases, supplements appear to raise indicators of inflammation, rather than reduce them.
> - Reducing the ability to adapt to exercise-induced oxidative stress: Cells will naturally adapt to increases in ROS by upregulating endogenous enzyme systems. Supplements may inhibit this endogenous adaptation.
> - Affecting physiologic processes like muscle contraction and insulin sensitivity: Supplementation, by affecting the concentration of ROS, may interfere with muscle function and recovery from the effects of exercise. A study by Ristow identified that supplementation with vitamins E and C inhibited the usual insulin-sensitizing effects of exercise. The result, for diabetics that exercise and take antioxidants, could mean an elimination of the expected benefits.
> ...So we’re challenged to make decisions based on incomplete information. In light of what we know about antioxidants and exercise, the trend in the data is strongly suggestive of zero benefit, at best, with the real possibility that there may be negative consequences to supplementation. Overlay the epidemiologic evidence that looks at mortality, cancer, and other outcomes, and the attractiveness of antioxidant supplements drops even further. The best advice for those that exercise seems to be to focus on consuming a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, and leaving the antioxidant bottles on the shelf. There appears to be little that is complementary about them.
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gwern
http://www.gwern.net
whoisbambam
from an exercise pOV, antioxidants as a rule are not advisable i have
recently concluded.
however, quercetin can help inflammatory markers of cardiac disease,
so it can be useful in that regard possibly, ntm to limit the flushing
effect of niacin
now.......beta alanine is another story--i am sold. good stuff for
exercise, imo, both anaerobic (weight training) and aerobic
of course, one must take large doses, like 4gm-8gm, and consider long
release formulation
Gwern--thanks for sharing. u are appreciated.
On Dec 8, 4:53 pm, Gwern Branwen <gwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antioxidants-and-exerci...
Pontus Granström
these anti-oxidants might be useless, but I suggest everyone to read the studies done on astaxanthin in particular and not use any genetical argumentation to
prove their point.
- Astaxanthin improves muscle endurance following supplementation in humans. Malmsten, C., 1998, Dietary supplementation with astaxanthin rich algal meal improves muscle endurance - double blind study on male students. Unpublished.
- Sawaki, K. et al. (2002) Sports performance benefits from taking natural astaxanthin characterized by visual activity and muscle fatigue improvements in humans. Journal of Clinical Therapeutics & Medicine 18(9):73-88.
- Ikeuchi et al., (2006). Effects of astaxanthin supplementation on exercise induced fatigue in mice. Bio. Pharm. Bull. 29(10):2106-2110.
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whoisbambam
beta alanine blows it away as far as performance enhancement with my
weight training and treadclimber routine
just my 2 cents again
i didnt seem to notice astaxanthin doing anything for me, but doesnt
mean it doesnt work
On Dec 9, 12:23 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just like with working memory, there seem to be a tendancy to collectively
> punish things based on their basket rather than their nature. I am not
> doubting that
> these anti-oxidants might be useless, but I suggest everyone to read the
> studies done on astaxanthin in particular and not use any genetical
> argumentation to
> prove their point.
>
> 1. Astaxanthin improves muscle endurance following supplementation in
> humans. Malmsten, C., 1998, Dietary supplementation with astaxanthin rich
> algal meal improves muscle endurance - double blind study on male students.
> Unpublished.
> 2. Sawaki, K. et al. (2002) Sports performance benefits from taking
> natural astaxanthin characterized by visual activity and muscle fatigue
> improvements in humans. Journal of Clinical Therapeutics & Medicine
> 18(9):73-88.
> 3. Ikeuchi et al., (2006). Effects of astaxanthin supplementation on
> exercise induced fatigue in mice. Bio. Pharm. Bull. 29(10):2106-2110.
> 4.
Colin Dickerman
but found none and stopped using them. Same with protein powder (and
other supplements.)
Total scam industry IMO
On Dec 8, 2:53 pm, Gwern Branwen <gwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antioxidants-and-exerci...
Pontus Granström
I have no doubt that Astaxanthin promotes a lot of benefits, same goes with fish oil, Q10, etc. I also started to take
GABA before sleep and it's really wonderful, it increases growth hormone production and puts you into deep sleep.
I will also start to take this http://www.jarrow.com/product.php?prodid=188 when it gets in stock here ....
whoisbambam
coq10 is questionable imo, but possibly helpful, unlike almost every
other supplement for a person with a well-balanced diet.
pontus, do consider a trial of beta alanine, 6grams a day in divided
doses, for 2months--i bet u would notice a difference.
i have never experienced a supplement as good as this one--one that i
can actually perceive in my exericse routine
quality fish oil is probably a savior tho--i am sure it will improve
my cardiac paramaters (blood work), and it possibly assists with ADD,
which i have, and possibly does help the brain somewhat--but difficult
to detect.
On Dec 12, 12:59 am, Pontus Granström <lepon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess much the products that are sold are indeed scam, but there are
> serious companies with solid science as well.
> I have no doubt that Astaxanthin promotes a lot of benefits, same goes with
> fish oil, Q10, etc. I also started to take
> GABA before sleep and it's really wonderful, it increases growth hormone
> production and puts you into deep sleep.
>
> I will also start to take thishttp://www.jarrow.com/product.php?prodid=188whenit gets in stock here
Mike
Hi Mike,
My apologies, I was tied up on the phone with a customer and could not answer you on live chat. I believe this is addressed on our site, but I will check it out.
The media continues to attack vitamins, attempting to discredit the benefits of nutritionals. There have been several recent cases of selective reporting to skew the public view. Numerous studies indicate the nutritional causes of disease and the many ways in which supplements support wellness, but slanted reports often overlook the bigger picture. Vitamins should not be considered a "quick fix." However, taken in conjunction with a healthy lifestyle, many supplements have been shown to have properties that help ward off disease.
To ignore the valid implications of years and volumes of detailed research is to ignore the true complexities of human health.
The study appearing in the Archives of Internal Medicine a few years back for example, did not conclusively come out against vitamins in general as reported by some news sources. The study used observational data rather than rigorous clinical research, and even study co-author Dr. Jo Ann Manson said the results do not indicate that vitamins are useless. It is not clear from the research whether vitamins have helped prevent cancers that take a long time to develop. The study concluded that multivitamins may still be a useful "form of insurance." It is also worth noting that the study was limited to multivitamins and there are a number of supplements beyond vitamins that have been shown in research to improve and prevent various health conditions. Multivitamins also vary widely by brand and type, so without standardized data, the results are inconclusive and vague.
Please find further reading on the efficacy of multivitamins on our site and white paper attached:
http://www.rayandterry.com/wellness_information.asp?section=Resources&question=146
Take care,
Emily @R&T
Emily Brangan
Customer Support
Best Wishes for Better Health!
Hi again,
Here is the answer on our site: http://www.rayandterry.com/blog/are-vitamins-beneficial/
Thanks again for writing in.
Mike
☉
definitely.
argumzio
Jelani Sims
whoisbambam
i imagine creatine does the same for sum, but not me
now i think i know what i have been missing out on.
i actually WANT to exercise with this stuff--it seems to give me more
stamina
considering how i feel basically no supplements work (nearly), i have
a very difficult time believing this is a placebo effect.
it is quite substantial--not just a little effect
noticeable, indeed.
it is my only miracle supplement.
:)
i am not discounting fish oil as i am confident it can help with
cardiac disease parameters, but i dont feel anything with it
these are my two favorite supplements, but beta alanine head and
shoulders beyond anything i have ever come across in my 25+ years
playing with 'supplements'
and i have spent many thousands of dollars trying this and that