Re: Sleeping difficulties

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Lou

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Nov 16, 2010, 9:37:15 AM11/16/10
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B vitamins and melatonin are cheap, safe, and effective.

I've found the best way both to get to sleep and to sleep soundly is
to throughly tire the body through physical exercise. The Tabata
method works well. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
intensity_interval_training) Not only does physical exercise help you
sleep, but there is the added bonus of it making you happier,
healthier, smarter, more resilient, and more attractive.

On Nov 16, 9:13 am, Jan Pouchlý <jpouc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to report sleeping difficulties, probably in relation to
> n-backing.
>
> My background is:
>
> - 2008/06 DNB for cca 1 month, 1 - 2 hours a day, 5 times a week;
> after 2 weeks probably gain +8 points IQ (I think it was Wechsler IQ
> 140 administered by school psychologist and after 5 months Raven IQ
> 148 administered by some Mensa guy). No problems at all. Better dream
> recall.
>
> - 2010/01 (maybe a little bit later) QNB (first four, then five
> stimuli) for three months. Less than 1 hour a day, 4 times a week.
> After that I had to run for 30 minutes (because after QNB I really
> wanted to do it) or wanted to learn new things, especially mathematics
> and languages. After that I could very easily sleep.
>
> - 2010/09/01 changing environment - I live in dormitory now (alone).
> First 2 weeks problems with sleeping, I think thanks to the stress.
> Then 1 month and 2 weeks everything was ok.
>
> - 2010/11/01 I started to train n-backing for let's say 1 hour 20
> minutes a day (between 18:00 - 20:30), 5 times a week, with these
> settings:
>
> 50% Quadruple-stim Crab Position, Image, Sound, Sound2 N-Back (10
> trials)
> 50% Triple Arithmetic V. N-Back (10 trials)
> 12,5% Dual N-Back (10 trials)
>
> My sleeping difficulties showed right after I started n-backing again
> (in 21:00 I'm in bed and trying to fall asleep - but my brain is still
> working and fully awake; 22:30-00:30 I sleep, then 01:30-03:30 I
> sleep, and then from 04:30 to 05:45. I wake up at 06:00). And I can't
> report any positive effect like before (that I wanted to exercise or
> to learn new things etc.).
> My mind is not tired during n-backing, but I'm just starting to be
> tired generally because of lack of sleep.
>
> So my questions are: Do you think that it is because of n-backing? Or
> because I do too much things (n-backing + a lot of study)? Or lack of
> some vitamin? ;) (probably lack of common sense ;)) Has anyone also
> simillar problems in relation to n-backing? Any advice? Stop n-
> backing? ;)
>
> And I also realized, that I need much more to train memory than
> intelligence. Does anyone know some software like this one, but to
> train memory? (Probably not, ok.) Or some tips?
>
> Jan

Pontus Granström

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Nov 16, 2010, 9:51:17 AM11/16/10
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I've also been using the tabata protocol in the form of tacfit commando, really liked it, but I am doing another kind of pyramid workouts now, very similar to the tabata stuff though.

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Pontus Granström

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Nov 16, 2010, 10:01:52 AM11/16/10
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Why not try this one http://www.ebookee.com/Deep-Sleep-with-Medical-Self-Hypnosis-by-Steven-Gurgevich_731020.html there's more stuff on that site, search for deep sleep, delta sleep and so on.

Reece

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Nov 16, 2010, 10:34:41 AM11/16/10
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Do you play intuitively or do you make use of strategies? I ask
because I have observed very different effects (regarding the ability
to fall asleep) depending on which method I use when playing DNB.
Where playing intuitively makes me sleepy, rehearsing and/or
consciously tracking positions with my eyes seems to further
accentuate my ADHD tendencies (eg. more racing thoughts, less impulse
control). I find playing before bed a very bad idea unless I plan on
playing intuitively -- else, I can expect it to take a good 1-2 hours
(and sometimes as much as three) before I am able to fall asleep.

Other than that, I completely agree with Lou's advice on the
effectiveness of B vitamins, melatonin, and exercise (note: some
people may experience vivid dreams when melatonin + strong b complex
vitamin are taken together).

dualnback

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Nov 16, 2010, 1:10:56 PM11/16/10
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For memory improvement look into Cogmed, a computer training software
program. It is very expensive though. For a cheaper option, although
still very expensive, you can try Brain Fitness Program Auditory and/
or Brain Fitness Program Visual by Posit Science. The latter two
training programs by Posit Science will improve both your memory and
your cognitive abilities.

Both Cogmed and Posit Science boast some of the world's most well
regarded neuroscientists. And their programs are validated by
extensive clinical research. If you have the money, I suspect these
programs could help you greatly with your memory.

Furthermore, you can also try taking some supplements to help you with
this. I suggest: CDP Choline and phosphatidyl serine (PS). For the
phosphatidyl serine, make sure the label say “Leci-PS.” Depending on
the dose you would be taking, it could take six to eight weeks for you
to see the results you want. Bacopa is also another supplement you
could try out. It takes about 12 weeks though for you to start
benefiting from it. In any case, remember, before taking any
supplement, you may want to check with your doctor or health
practitioner to get their ok.

On the other front, here is hoping you get a good night sleep soon.

All the best

Gwern Branwen

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Nov 16, 2010, 4:19:12 PM11/16/10
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On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Jan Pouchlý <jpou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to report sleeping difficulties, probably in relation to
> n-backing.
>
> My background is:
>
> - 2008/06 DNB for cca 1 month, 1 - 2 hours a day, 5 times a week;
> after 2 weeks probably gain +8 points IQ (I think it was Wechsler IQ
> 140 administered by school psychologist and after 5 months Raven IQ
> 148 administered by some Mensa guy). No problems at all. Better dream
> recall.

This doesn't seem to have been reported before, so I'm adding it to
the IQ boost section. Although I certainly would appreciate it if
someone with the relevant expertise could tell us whether the norms
for Wechsler and Ravens are such that that is a genuine increase.

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Lou <lewis....@gmail.com> wrote:
> B vitamins and melatonin are cheap, safe, and effective.

Self-promotion: http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin.html (earlier version
with much discussion:
http://lesswrong.com/lw/1lt/case_study_melatonin/ )

--
gwern
http://www.gwern.net

αrgvmziΩ σV

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Nov 16, 2010, 6:24:43 PM11/16/10
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The difference between (what I assume both are) WAIS-III and RAPM is
fairly significant; the former is about 2.667 sigma (FSIQ), and the
latter is just over 3 sigma. For those who wish to know, both are set
with a standard deviation of 15.
Keep in mind, however, that with WAIS-III you get the full treatment
while with RAPM your fluid ability is assessed as in the original
Jaeggi study, so Jan's performance on other factors may have depressed
and concealed his (already) high Gf, or performance, capabilities.
That's why it is paramount to use the same test, or a test that is
essentially of the same design. For example, he could have taken both
Cattell Culture Fair III (A+B) and RAPM, since both are designed to
tax Gf alone. Even then, I should point out that CCFT-II norms go
_much_ higher than RAPM norms, that is, the former goes over 5 sigma,
and the latter over 3.

argumzio

P.S. Anyone can, for a price, be administered RAPM online here:
http://www.talentlens.com.au/product_details&id=418&cat_id=13


On Nov 16, 3:19 pm, Gwern Branwen <gwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Jan Pouchlý <jpouc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would like to report sleeping difficulties, probably in relation to
> > n-backing.
>
> > My background is:
>
> > - 2008/06 DNB for cca 1 month, 1 - 2 hours a day, 5 times a week;
> > after 2 weeks probably gain +8 points IQ (I think it was Wechsler IQ
> > 140 administered by school psychologist and after 5 months Raven IQ
> > 148 administered by some Mensa guy). No problems at all. Better dream
> > recall.
>
> This doesn't seem to have been reported before, so I'm adding it to
> the IQ boost section. Although I certainly would appreciate it if
> someone with the relevant expertise could tell us whether the norms
> for Wechsler and Ravens are such that that is a genuine increase.
>
> On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Lou <lewis.grin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > B vitamins and melatonin are cheap, safe, and effective.
>
> Self-promotion:http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin.html(earlier version

Pontus Granström

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Nov 16, 2010, 6:48:23 PM11/16/10
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I might actually take the RAPM again in my home and when I feel ready, not early in the morning like I did last time.
Interesting to note though: Abbreviated versions of SPM and APM correlate .97 with the original full-length versions. I don't want
to sit an hour if I can do it in 20 minutes.


mkaijo

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Nov 17, 2010, 3:02:09 AM11/17/10
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just continue your N back training ,in a few weeks then you will fall
asleep.
In my studies the enlarged N back level in a single session of
exercise per day will lead to beta brain waves, which ends in a long
time especially if you do exercise N back daily for two hours. It's
like you're using imusic BrainAmp for one to two hours a day with very
high intensity 100%, but this stuff is very expensive.


On Nov 16, 9:13 pm, Jan Pouchlý <jpouc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to report sleeping difficulties, probably in relation to
> n-backing.
>
> My background is:
>
> - 2008/06 DNB for cca 1 month, 1 - 2 hours a day, 5 times a week;
> after 2 weeks probably gain +8 points IQ (I think it was Wechsler IQ
> 140 administered by school psychologist and after 5 months Raven IQ
> 148 administered by some Mensa guy). No problems at all. Better dream
> recall.
>

Pontus Granström

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Nov 17, 2010, 5:32:17 AM11/17/10
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Actually I do not know if I can take the test online since you have to live in australia, I've sent them an email on the issue.

Mkaijo, have done studies on brainwaves and n-back? Seems interesting, please tell us more.

Jelani Sims

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Nov 17, 2010, 10:24:22 PM11/17/10
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Brainamp... do you actually think it has any effect watsoever?  The claims are pretty outlandish.

On Nov 17, 2010 5:32 AM, "Pontus Granström" <lepo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually I do not know if I can take the test online since you have to live in australia, I've sent them an email on the issue.

Mkaijo, have done studies on brainwaves and n-back? Seems interesting, please tell us more.


On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 9:02 AM, mkaijo <ran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> just continue your N back tr...

Pontus Granström

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Nov 18, 2010, 5:12:55 AM11/18/10
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Might work in the sense that it induces beta brainwave activity. I use Slow Wave Sleep and it makes me sleep like a corpse, might have to do with the ocean waves that really calms you down still I find it more effective than other brainwave programs so I don't care. I've also been using visual stimuli on my screen and it gives stronger effects. My cats really love the Schumann resonance (Played over neuro programmer, headphone free), I believe cat purr is a multiple of this "earth frequency", claimed to increase HGH and heal. As you know cats have a tremendous ability to heal even the most severe damages.



--

mkaijo

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Nov 19, 2010, 4:14:50 AM11/19/10
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When the n-back level decreases the strength of theta brain wave
dominates.
When the n-back level remains constant ,the strength of beta brain
wave is
same as the strength of theta brain wave, at this level, response to
beta
brain wave become more short in duration.When the n-back level
increases
the strength of beta brain wave dominates, the response of beta brain
waves
become longer in duration, the response at this level was observed in
the
1,2-back memory load conditions.If n-back level increases to 3,4,5,6-
back,
brain wave become dominant in gamma frequency also become longer in
duration.
> > brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com<brain-training%2Bunsubscribe@go­oglegroups.com>
> > .

Pontus Granström

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Nov 19, 2010, 5:08:19 AM11/19/10
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This is very interesting, almost worth adding to the FAQ if you ask me. It also seems consistent with mood improvements since beta/gamma is anti-depressant. Do you have any studies on brainamp?

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.

mkaijo

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Nov 20, 2010, 1:28:16 AM11/20/10
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In my studies, EEG device on my BrainAmp research showed brain waves
in the band of 15-20 Hz frequency on left hemisphere with strongest
power and 15 hz in some areas at right hemisphere .
If it is used continuously will cause difficulty sleeping but
difficulties will disappear after the use of about 2-3 weeks.
If subjects have difficulty sleeping because of using the N back (or
BrainAmp)subjects can use the SMR beta (12-15 Hz)for insomnia
treatment. In my research, 15 Hz frequency enough for sleep training
for 1 hour in the form of
isochronic tones, just use MWS or neuroprogrammer to make isochronic
tones. You also can use Gnaural to produce monaural beats, just
convert Gnaural's stereo(binaural beats) file into mono mode by an
audio converter.

Below are papers that support my studies on N back (DNB or single N
back)with relation to human brainwaves:

Potentiation of Gamma Oscillatory Activity through Repetitive
Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation of the Dorsolateral Prefrontal
Cortex
(with N back)
download at:http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v34/n11/pdf/
npp200979a.pdf

Neurofeedback for Children with ADHD: A Comparison of SCP and Theta/
Beta Protocols
download at:http://www.sydney-neurofeedback.com.au/downloads/Leins
%20(2008)%20ADHD%20SCP%20Theta%20Beta%20Comparison.pdf

Enhancing cognitive control through neurofeedback: A role of gamma-
band activity in managing episodic retrieval
download at:http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?
doi=10.1.1.160.1568&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The effect of gamma enhancing neurofeedback on the control of feature
bindings and intelligence measures
download at:http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?
doi=10.1.1.159.9807&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Functional coupling between frontal and parietal lobes during
recognition memory
download at:http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/284625/
SummerfieldMangels-NR-2005--pdf.html

Cross-frequency coupling in parieto-frontal oscillatory networks
during motor imagery revealed
by magnetoencephalography
download at:http://neuroimage.usc.edu/~karim/Jerbi-Bertrand-
FrontiersCommentary-2009.pdf

Resting GABA concentration predicts peak gamma frequency and fMRI
download at:http://godzilla.kennedykrieger.org/~raee2/PNAS.pdf

Pontus Granström

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Nov 22, 2010, 5:29:02 AM11/22/10
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You got any studies on sleep improving brainwave entrainment? I use a delta program and believe it works quite well.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to brain-trainin...@googlegroups.com.

mkaijo

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Nov 23, 2010, 2:59:23 AM11/23/10
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Delta & theta are very good for deep sleep. SMR(12-15 Hz) is good for
sleep training.
> > download at:http://neuroimage.usc.edu/~karim/Jerbi-Bertrand-<http://neuroimage.usc.edu/%7Ekarim/Jerbi-Bertrand->
> > FrontiersCommentary-2009.pdf
>
> > Resting GABA concentration predicts peak gamma frequency and fMRI
> > download at:http://godzilla.kennedykrieger.org/~raee2/PNAS.pdf<http://godzilla.kennedykrieger.org/%7Eraee2/PNAS.pdf>

S K

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Nov 26, 2010, 12:42:30 PM11/26/10
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On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Pontus Granström <lepo...@gmail.com> wrote:
You got any studies on sleep improving brainwave entrainment? I use a delta program and believe it works quite well.


I have problems falling asleep and having quality sleep. A recent sleep study indicated a total lack of Delta waves....I have recently been experimenting with binaural audios....but using headphones is problematic if falling asleep...the act of removing them takes whatever sleep has been induced.

Could you please (and others too), please mention or give a link to their delta program? with comments?

I too would be interested in Delta related studies....or direct brainwave feedback protocol success for sleep.

Pontus Granström

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Nov 26, 2010, 12:57:54 PM11/26/10
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Perhaps you should use isochronic delta waves played over your  speaker that way you don't have to remove the headphones.

--

Manuel Alejandro Mijangos

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Nov 27, 2010, 9:37:50 PM11/27/10
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Hi everyone, I must agree with lewis, the Tabata method is excellent
because it gives you lots of energy during the day and in the night
you sleep like a baby (and maybe can get you to sleep with a babe...
but that's another story lol), the only things that you must take into
account though is that
1 ) You must already have a good fitness level, because if not you are
going to probably injure yourself or even put your life in danger, so
be careful
2 ) You must eat a lot of healthy things, like proteins, fruits,
vegetables, vitamins and the like because you are going to need them
to repair your muscles (let alone your brain after dual n back)

After you consider these 2 important things, I can suggest you to
listen bach's air or relaxing music in general, that can make wonders,
and probably consider resting 1 more day per week

Pontus Granström

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Dec 4, 2010, 5:01:19 PM12/4/10
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