I say effective because 4 people me included (all test subjects until now) have reported Lucid Dreaming after the first few training sessions.
Test it and report your experience!
Have a good weekend.
It's been a while since my last post here. Few days ago I've put online a simple yet effective web app called [Syllogimous] (https://4skinskywalker.github.io/Syllogimous/)
I say effective because 4 people me included (all test subjects until now) have reported Lucid Dreaming after the first few training sessions.
Test it and report your experience!
Have a good weekend.
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"The flaw is that you want to consider a conclusion as true based on a particular case. That's YOUR flaw. The conclusion has to stand true for every possible substitution of those placeholders!"
I disagree, I think it should be the other way around. That's your perspective. I think the underlying logic has to stand true for every possible situation, that seems far more logical and in line with reality. If an anomaly is present in reality then the logic isn't in line with reality, common sense.
Take for instance your example #9, you are not certain of the premises you've made in the first place (Some Cats are Biting and Some Dogs are not Biting).
You've arbitrarily decided to place those words there and take those premises for granted.
You really don't know anything about the state of both Cats and Dogs, therefore you can't infer with deterministic precision the truthness of your custom premises.
" basically anything can happen! Answers would vary from interpretation to interpretation."
No it can't, only relative to the logic of the statements themselves. On that note confined to the statements as they're presented both can be true, its also relational reasoning not ralational reasoning but that's not too important here. If you wish for your version of things to be true, change the statements so that they can't be misinterpreted relative to regular logical parameters. I'm not going to recommend anything to you anymore though, its obvious my time is better spent elsewhere. Sincerely though, good luck!
It seems like there's bugs.How can number 8 be true and number 9 be false? Is the program buggy?For number 8:W = Stupid peopleT = AssholesQ = Intelligent peopleFor number 9:
A = CatsR = BitingN = DogsThus the statement can be true.
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 9:04:53 AM UTC+10, Noah I. wrote:
I love this app. Thank you for sharing.
Will be interesting to see what it might do in the longer term.
/n
On Sunday, April 07, 2019 01:01 CEST, Fredo Corleone <stopchemt...@gmail.com> wrote:
It's been a while since my last post here. Few days ago I've put online a simple yet effective web app called [Syllogimous] (https://4skinskywalker.github.io/Syllogimous/)
I say effective because 4 people me included (all test subjects until now) have reported Lucid Dreaming after the first few training sessions.
Test it and report your experience!
Have a good weekend.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Dual N-Back, Brain Training & Intelligence" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to brain-t...@googlegroups.com.
Thanks for getting back to me Fredo, yeah I understand where you're coming from but for me its not real world reasoning so has its flaws there. I'd prefer a game where you could easily apply examples like that and it would return a true match. Interesting idea though!
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 6:21:44 PM UTC+10, Fredo Corleone wrote:
Thanks for getting back to me Fredo, yeah I understand where you're coming from but for me its not real world reasoning so has its flaws there. I'd prefer a game where you could easily apply examples like that and it would return a true match. Interesting idea though!
On Sunday, April 7, 2019 at 6:21:44 PM UTC+10, Fredo Corleone wrote:
It's been a while since my last post here. Few days ago I've put online a simple yet effective web app called [Syllogimous] (https://bit.ly/2I1BgWz)
Moon Kyu Seong, the approach is one from the perspective of formal logic (this will cause problems for the general consumer as well), not real life and that's where the problem is, moreover the game is too easy as I will describe.Learning logic that isn't true in real life isn't going to make you 'smarter' more than the way I've described, both will improve cognitive control relative to the problem set and in as much the student hasn't learned the patterns yet in exactly the same way we're only talking about a minor difference here that is only going to annoy people that aren't familiar with formal logic.Moreover the patterns of the syllogisms are extremely easy to predict once you get the hang of it so if the game wants to be any good it should have an n-back component included as I've just discovered robert chalean's relational reasoning game does but it has some errors it seems as I've mentioned, it supports the updating function in cognition which is necessary in the connecting of past and future elements in cognition, a necessary function in solving any IQ question when you're generating possibilities about potential patterns not merely connecting statements. The latter is a linear process the former is a non-linear process thus requires the updation and comparing of information in working memory more.Real life is most likely probabilistic not deterministic, its a process of game theoretic parts competing against one another which form a system in their interaction which then give rise to new parts which then gives rise to new and updated systems and so on and so fourth. In the situation described, you should be exercising probability on whether ALL or just SOME of N is not R, probability is the best means of reasoning about unknowns so you don't take unnecessary risks, SOME of N is R therefore remains possible which makes the rest of the statement true as we haven't properly determined whether the fact that NO N is A is meaningful to the statement NO N is R or is merely ancillary but not yet known whether its necessarily true.Moreover, in the process of solving these syllogisms what you're utilising is hypothesis based thinking, which is to prediction and prediction is to probability, to reduce probability down to a rigid absolutist structure isn't a sound process when you're trying to apply this thinking to any real problem, including any said problem on an IQ test, a subject that you've brought up above.Thank you for your time and respect Moon Kyu Seong,Graham
Well the difference here is that you're trying to train your reasoning, not merely play some game that has some arbitrary rules. I predicted someone would say something like this actually, but just because someone hadn't said it didn't mean it was excluded from reasoning and therefore should be considered a false statement, that's essentially what this is about, the removing of that subtraction of valid extra reasoning of probabilities concerning the relationship between X and Y or in this case N and R. Checkmate.
I'm more than willing to have feedbacks, but please think twice before "opening" an issue to address a bug. That may be detrimental to the reputation of my idea.
I'll try to be more polite, but keep in mind that if my language sounds a bit rude it may be due to the lack of vocabulary as English is my third language.
Right, but was it symmetrical to the type of questions in the screenshot? Meaning formal logic. My prediction is not but that's okay (as it requires former knowledge). Yes, they splash syllogisms in the IQ test bathtub everywhere nowadays, variations of course being analogies as well.
Syllogisms are also good indicators: Shikishima, et al. (2011) suggested a strong association between syllogistic reasoning ability and general intelligence (g).
adding an n-back variation at least provides some kind of pattern recognition
Thanks Fredo,Only because I'm a little picky I'll train on your game once a non formal logic variation (analogous to and or more advanced than Shikishima, et al. (2011) research which I've just checked out) is created and n-back is implemented, its a great start and good work.I'm not at all surprised at their overlap, simply because the Raven's requires relational ability at higher levels where you're remembering previous patterns you've figured out while you're sorting through contents to either discover other patterns, while ignoring other patterns or while comparing to other patterns until a final resolution is reached.
I highly doubt relational ability where its paired with syllogistic reasoning is isomorphic to pattern recognition however its not impossible (my prediction is that there's ZERO relationship) and is still an interesting question to figure out beyond an abstract level where we understand scientifically those differences. As well as likely being a higher syllogistic (relational ability) loading adding an n-back variation at least provides some kind of pattern recognition (even if it's just at a low level) so you're training both simultaneously.
you're exerting zero cognitive effort at in the beginning to see a pattern merely make a logical connection based on the statements described.
you're not generating the connections between those statements.
Citing random persons isn't going to do it, especially without any quoted text.
"1. You speak as N-back were a pattern recognition task. For me, at least from my intuition based style of playing, N-back is not a pattern recognition task. While playing DNB I just hold a buffer of N items and check each new stimulus against the Nth-back. I don't even visualize anything just pay attention to the inputs."
At a rudimentary level, it qualifies as in part a pattern recognition task. You see a stimulus repeat in a place it was before, ergo pattern. Its important to define what a pattern is before you can categorise something as a pattern or not pattern recognition task or not, a pattern is merely self similarity. That's it. N-back achieves this at the most rudimentary level possible.
"2. You seem to miss the fact that syllogism are close to pattern recognition tasks, as an argument I may tell you that syllogisms are named after their very patterns, from Wikipedia: Barbara, Celarent, Darii, Ferioque, Baroco, Bocardo, Barbari, Celaront, Camestros, Felapton, Darapti, and others."
Close is not the same as, it does qualify at a low level given the parameters I've described above but not at a high level. For one (1) you're merely recalling prior logical connections to see if something fits in with something else and two (2) These patterns are laid out for you, you're exerting zero cognitive effort at in the beginning to see a pattern merely make a logical connection based on the statements described. As I noted in prior comments above, you're merely connecting statements you're not generating the connections between those statements. If the task required you to make the connection to generate the IS's/NOT's then it would obviously be one but because its not, its obviously not or merely at a low level.If you still believe that its a (good) pattern recognition task then you should have no problem at explaining how this process of solving syllogisms in the context of pattern recognition is reflected in an IQ test (i.e. Raven's Progressive Matrices +) as an example. I've already done so from the perspective of relational working memory, however I've failed to do in light of pattern recognition given I think the relationship is negligible. Would be happy to be proven wrong however at present the logic simply isn't there.Citing random persons isn't going to do it, especially without any quoted text.
I haven't experienced any lucid dreaming, sadly.