Torch Battle (TB): game mechanics and strategy

[reckoner]

Why you should care:

Torch Battles (TB) provide good rewards for guilds that perform well. At our current guild level,

each member can earn up to 7k HB's and 560 shards, per TB. This is a very nice reward, and

we can do this twice per week! We need as many members as possible participating at the end

of every TB (server time 20:45 to 21:00). This time period is the most critical, and it's where we

can make the biggest impact on the rewards that we earn, but we need good participation to

be successful.

Basic Info:

Refer to the CC wiki page for basic info:

http://castle-clash.wikia.com/wiki/Torch_Battle

TB Start/End Times:

TB's happen on Wed and Sat, and run from 9:00 to 21:00 server time. As mentioned above,

the end time is the most critical, so plan on helping out the guild by participating during the

last 15 minutes. It doesn't matter if you're a weaker player without strong heroes. Everyone

can help!

How TB works:

The goal is to end up with as many torches as possible, which will determine the number

of HB's and shards we receive. At the beginning of the TB, each guild will be given a 

number of torches based on the guild level. Our current guild level is VII, which grants

us 70 torches at the beginning of the TB, and allows us to gather up to 140 torches. Our

goal is to end up with the maximum number of torches when the TB ends, so we can earn

the maximum rewards.

Each guild member is granted 10 attempts to haul (attack), and 10 attempts to defend (guard).

If any attempts are used, they will replenish at the rate of 1 per 30 mins. You can have a

maximum of 10 hauls and 10 guards at any time.

When you launch a haul on another guild, their total number of torches is immediately

reduced by 1, while our total is not yet affected. Your hero will take a certain amount of

time to return, based on that hero's movement speed. During this time, the guild you attacked

will be able to guard (defend) their torch by fighting your hero. If their guard is successful,

they will immediately regain their torch, and your hero will continue to take time to return.

If they choose not to defend or if they defend unsuccessfully, your hero will eventually

return, and our guild will gain 1 torch at that time. Note that if the TB ends before your hero

returns, the attack will be considered a failure, and the guild that you attacked will regain

their torch, and we gain nothing. Also note that since hero movement speed is a factor,

this places a higher priority on fast-moving heroes like ninja and assassin, since they

will give a smaller "window" for the opposing guild to see the haul attempt, and defend

their torch. (I did notice that heroes with sprint don't seem to have a shorter haul time

than equivalent non-sprint heroes... so only base movement speed seems to matter).

When someone launches a haul on our guild, 1 torch will be subtracted from our total

immediately. We will be able to see the attempted haul in our TB "Guard" screen. There,

we can see the type of hero attempting the haul, and how long it will take before their hero

returns to the opposing guild. If we fight their hero and win, the torch will be immediately

added back to our total. If their hero returns to them without being killed, they will get to keep

the torch that they took from us. If their haul time is longer than the remaining time in

the TB, their attack will automatically fail when the TB ends, and the torch will be returned

to us. This means that no one should waste a guard attempt on an attack that will not

complete before the end of the TB... we will get that torch back automatically. Also note

that when fighting a hero to guard one of our torches, the defending hero will take some

time to become available for another guard attempt. I don't know for sure, but it may

be related to the hero's movement speed, similar to when we use a hero to haul a

torch from another guild (see below). 

Hero vs. Hero matchups (while defending against haul attempts):

Refer to this thread on the IGG forum for simulated data:

http://us.forum.igg.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=159780&extra=&page=1

In general, Moltanica is the best in 1v1 battles, and has a very high win rate. High DPS

heroes also do well (Succubus, Snowzilla, Ninja). Of course there's a lot of factors involved,

such as hero level, skill level, and talent. As far as talents go, Scatter is by far the best.

Since most people will haul with fast-moving heroes like Ninja, we will need to defend with

either stronger/bigger Ninjas, use Atlanticore, or big heroes with high level defensive talents

(Stone Skin, Flame Guard, Scorch). Otherwise, we should save our Guard chances

on the battles that are easier to win.

Our Strategy:

During the day, we should try to maintain a torch balance of 50%-75%. We don't want

to go up to 100%, because that will put us near the top of the rankings, and will

make us a target to be heavily attacked at the end of the TB. It's also critically important

that each person make sure they have 10 haul and guard attempts with 15 minutes

remaining in the TB. So, save up your attempts for the very end.

When there is 15mins, down to around 7mins remaining in the TB, we should launch

as many hauls as we can. Our best strategy for success is to attack lower-ranking

guilds as much as possible. Each person should use all 10 of their haul attempts on the

same guild if possible, and for even better success, we can have multiple people attacking

the same guild. This will make it harder for them to defend. In general we should haul

from guilds on page 20 or so of the rankings page. They seem to be less active, and

are less likely to defend, while still having a decent number of torches for us to steal.

When timing your attacks, be aware of your heroes' movement speeds, because that

will determine their return time. These are some estimates based on my observations:

move speed	haul time
150	~11min.
185	~8.5min.
200	~7.5min.
220	~7min.
290	~6min.

When hauling during the final minutes of the TB, it's generally better to use fast-moving

heroes like Ninja and Assassin, while saving your strongest heroes to defend. The hope

is that by launching many attacks on only a few guilds (lower-ranking, hopefully inactive),

most or all of our hauls will be successful, even if you use weaker heroes. Note that you

should not launch an attack if that hero cannot complete the haul before the TB ends,

since the torch will be returned to the opposing guild. Likewise, if your hauls complete

with under 6 minutes remaining, there's no way that we can lose those torches, since

no opposing hero will be fast enough to steal away those newly acquired torches.

Therefore, you should time your attacks so that they all complete with less than 6mins

remaining in the TB.

As a general guideline... most legendary heroes (and medium-level Assassins) have

at least 180 move speed, so all of those heroes can be launched with 10 minutes

remaining. If you have to use slower heroes, you may need to launch them earlier.

When there is UNDER 6mins remaining in the TB, we should defend as many attacks

as possible. Make sure you ignore any attacks that will take longer than the remaining

duration of the TB. For example, if there are 5 minutes left in the TB, and we have a

haul against us that will take 7 minutes, there's no need to defend it. That torch will

automatically be returned to our guild.

Try to use bigger heroes to take out bigger targets. This will leave easier targets for

other members of our guild that may not have the strongest heroes. 

 

Summary:

During the day, use your haul and guard chances sparingly.We should try to maintain

50%-75% capacity. Make sure you have all 10 haul & guard chances available when

there is 15 mins. remaining.

When there is 10mins remaining, we haul. Reserve your biggest heroes for defense.

Use Ninjas and Assassins for their movement speed, or other legendaries that

you don't want to keep for defense. Send all your attacks at the same guild if possible...

it should be a lower-ranking guild, which will hopefully be inactive or weak.

When there is under 6mins remaining, we defend. Pick off the easier-to-kill heroes

first. Save big heroes to take out the bigger targets. Ignore any hauls that will not

complete before the TB ends. 

 

One final note...

As mentioned above, it's very important we get as much participation as possible

during the final 15 minutes of the TB. Everyone reaps the reward, so we would like

everyone to participate if possible, to help increase our chances of success.

Also, since the last 15 minutes of the TB is rather hectic, especially if we're being heavily

attacked, please try to keep the guild chat clear of unnecessary, unimportant,

and unrelated chatter during this time. Guild leadership will try to give directions and

strategy, and we want everyone to be able to see this easily. Anything else can wait

until after the TB ends.

Let's have some fun, and earn as many rewards as we can!

 

[foobar74]

By the way, I'm not *positive* about this, but from observation it seems to suggest the case:

Because the % are not updated in realtime with a delay, the game will allow you to haul from a guild that theoretically could run of torches, by the time your heroes get there.

e.g. say guild ABC has 140 maximum, they actually have 80 now, so game says 50% (it always rounds down for TB).

We pick them as the target, and send 10 guild members to haul.

Because the %s do not update in real time, we'll be sending 100 to capture 80...maybe that guild will defend and block 30 ...so it works out and we get 70 flags.   But best case scenario is we'll get just 80, and 20 attempts are wasted.

This could mean (if we want to get greedy and go after 100%) we should

* First: make sure a guild has a high % count (but catch-22 here, if high%, it'll be higher ranked and possibly other guilds will also be attacking, so greater chance they run out of flags)

* split our targets into multiple guilds.  The drawback is if one or both of the guilds are actively defending, now it's harder to overwhelm them with numbers.  So we really need maximum participation for this.

It's just our 3rd torch battle of course, so still trial-and-error phase and part of the process though last week we did great already (396 shards was it? must've meant we had 132 flags at end)

[reckoner]

I'm not 100% positive either, but i don't think that's correct.

As soon as a haul is launched, the defending guild has their torch count

reduced by 1. I don't think the server will let the haul commence if the

defending guild has zero torches, regardless of what the rankings page

shows (and yes, the rankings don't update continuously). I recall that this

happened to me when i tried to haul from a guild in a previous TB... it just

wouldn't let my haul execute, and i had to choose another guild.

So, i don't think there's a danger of us over-attacking a guild, and thus

wasting our haul chances. Of course i could be wrong, but from what i've

seen and read so far, i believe this to be correct.

Also, my timing estimates for hero move speed vs. haul time may be

overly pessimistic. I used my #1 Ninja in an attack today, which has 290

move speed, and i think his haul time was around 4.5 minutes, not 6 mins.

If anyone can make a note of accurate data they're seeing for their heroes,

please share.

[reckoner]

It seems we still have members who aren't following the game plan,

so to make it perfectly clear and hopefully really simple to understand...

1. Make sure you will have all 10 hauls and all 10 guards when the

server time is 20:45. 

2. During the day, we want to maintain 50% torch capacity AT MOST.

This means we want 80/160 or less. If we have more than 80/160,

DO NOT HAUL. If we have more than 80/160, DO NOT DEFEND.

If we have less than 80/160, and you fully understand my first post,

you may haul/defend to try to get our balance up to, but not exceeding

50%. If you have any doubt, ask one of the guild leaders. If no one is

online to help you, DO NOTHING.

[reckoner]

After talking to some guild members, we think that 50%-1 is

the perfect number of torches to maintain during the day. If our

maximum is 160, we should aim to have 79 right before crunch

time. This would show us as having 25% on the rankings page,

instead of 50% (even though we are virtually at 50%). If other

guilds think we have 25% instead of 50%, we are less likely to

get targeted, which will make our job a lot easier. As we

have seen in the past, it's much easier to gain torches by

hauling, than it is to regain lost torches by defending.

So, aim for 50%-1, or 79/160.

[foobar74]

As we're now at guild VII, with a max of 180, just time for an update on what Reck said.

As it's apparent some of us don't like to read all the text...even if you just follow the bolded parts, that's a good start.

* Currently, we try to position ourselves around 110 ish torches by 2045 (give or take say 10).  

That quantity usually puts us around rank 100ish...not so high as to make us prime targets (as guilds tacitly gang up on the top ranks through at least the first half dozen pages), but not so low to make us prime targets in another sense (as guilds also attack the lowest ranked ones, as these tend to be inactive/least likely to defend), or potentially make the shortage insurmountable if say only 12 guildees show up.

* That _does not_ necessarily mean, however, if you are on at noon and see we have 100 torches, you can go "aha we're less than 110, let's haul".  The reason is for whatever reason, though we are 8 TBs in, we _still_ have members who don't follow the rules.  So if you haul to say 115, some mysterious guildee who won't own up to it will follow and haul it to 125.  That is exactly what happened last torch, and we know how "fun" it is to get attacked by about 10 guilds on 14 pages.  Because of these rogue elements, it's better to err on the side of too few to start than too many.

* The 2045+ and wait for leads rule: still holds.  We do have some guildees with smurfs who are very precise with their hauling times, and those are welcome to exercise their best judgment.  For example, Zee Reck, Mhm and I all have smurfs with just ordinaries, those take around 10 minutes to haul so we may send them at 2045, usually against very low-ranked guilds, so

1) we can then go focus on our main accounts to haul with legends at 2048+ and defend, without wasting the smurf's hauls or having to multi-task 

2) as the ordinaries won't finish hauling till ~2055, by the time those additional torches register it'll be too late for any guilds to attack us, so this is a calculated no-risk haul.

Unless you are a precise-hauler who knows exactly what you are doing, however (and generally speaking, the leads and the hauler him/herself know if the hauler is one), you should wait for the leads' signal.  What we don't want is e.g. someone sending legends 2045/2046 and have them finish hauling by 2052, thereby increasing our rank prematurely to the front pages while giving other guilds plenty of time to hammer us.  

3) with all that said, if it's 2049 and you are still confused/have questions...just haul--from any guild with flags preferably near the last pages.  It's highly unlikely your hauls will finish by 2055 anyway ...and we have had a couple torch battles where >30 hauls didn't finish (while we missed by 2 and 1!) because people were confused and froze, or just didn't time their hauls properly, and hauled way too late. 

[reckoner]

If foo's abbreviated instructions above are STILL too much for people to read, or too difficult for some people to understand, please just follow this one very simple, concise rule:

Do not do *anything* unless a guild leader tells you to.

If we need people to haul, we will tell you.