Is TASM still sold by Borland?

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Charles Biemiller

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Jul 7, 2002, 3:19:23 PM7/7/02
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I don't see it on their site anymore?

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 7, 2002, 3:20:36 PM7/7/02
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In article <3D2894...@netrax.net>, Charles Biemiller says...

> I don't see it on their site anymore?

I went to http://www.borland.com, clicked the Shop link at the top
right, which took me to http://shop.borland.com, then chose Other
Products from the list on the left, and found this:

http://shop.borland.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=378438&PN=1&SP=10023
&xid=39696&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0

or, shorter:

http://tinyurl.com/h02

--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research,
would it?" -- Albert Einstein

R.Wieser

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Jul 7, 2002, 3:51:12 PM7/7/02
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) <rvel...@gmx.de> schreef in berichtnieuws
MPG.1792b2eb2...@207.105.83.65...

> In article <3D2894...@netrax.net>, Charles Biemiller says...
>
> > I don't see it on their site anymore?
>
> I went to http://www.borland.com, clicked the Shop link at the top
> right, which took me to http://shop.borland.com, then chose Other
> Products from the list on the left, and found this:
>
> http://shop.borland.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=378438&PN=1&SP=10023
> &xid=39696&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0

One warning thoug : It's not *supported* anymore. I found-out the hard way
when I found a bug in TASM/TASM32 and tried to get it fixed/solved.

Or, in short : Although they still seem to sell it, they want nothing to do
with it anymore ... :-(

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Charles Biemiller

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Jul 7, 2002, 7:41:04 PM7/7/02
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Thanks. It is nice to know they still sell it.

Randolf Richardson

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Jul 8, 2002, 1:47:40 AM7/8/02
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[Snip]

> One warning thoug : It's not *supported* anymore. I found-out the hard way
> when I found a bug in TASM/TASM32 and tried to get it fixed/solved.
>
> Or, in short : Although they still seem to sell it, they want nothing to do
> with it anymore ... :-(

TASM and TASM32 should be moved to Open Source as version 6 if Borland
doesn't want to support it anymore. It's a great product, and I'd like
nothing more than to see it evolve into something even greater! A move such
as this could also be good for Borland's Public Relations.

Anyone who agrees with this should write a letter, on paper, sign it,
and then mail it to Borland (mail it on a physical piece of paper so that it
will have more impact). Tell them that it could be good for their Public
image.

--
Randolf Richardson - r...@8x.ca
Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
http://www.8x.ca/

Public newsgroups for developers: news://news.inter-corporate.com/
Have an idea for a topic? Just ask -- we can add it for you.

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 8, 2002, 8:16:07 AM7/8/02
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In article <Xns9244E6FC...@207.105.83.65>, Randolf Richardson
says...

> TASM and TASM32 should be moved to Open Source as version 6 if Borland
> doesn't want to support it anymore. It's a great product, and I'd like
> nothing more than to see it evolve into something even greater! A move such
> as this could also be good for Borland's Public Relations.
>
> Anyone who agrees with this should write a letter, on paper, sign it,
> and then mail it to Borland (mail it on a physical piece of paper so that it
> will have more impact). Tell them that it could be good for their Public
> image.

I think an e-mail to the proper people would have more weight. Now let
me find out to whom exactly. I think it is a good idea.

Randolf Richardson

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Jul 9, 2002, 5:04:27 AM7/9/02
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[Snip]

>> will have more impact). Tell them that it could be good for their
>> Public image.
>
> I think an e-mail to the proper people would have more weight. Now let
> me find out to whom exactly. I think it is a good idea.

If some of us write letters on paper, and others write eMails, then that
should have even MORE impact than just one method alone.

I'm glad you like the idea of TASM going open source, but I must admit
that it's not my own idea -- I've seen discussion of this topic in the past on
this very newsgroup, and am just trying to instigate a grass-roots effort to
strongly encourage Borland to do it.

Markus Humm

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Jul 9, 2002, 11:51:18 AM7/9/02
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I'd vote for this too!

Martin Fensome

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Jul 12, 2002, 11:24:52 PM7/12/02
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I think John Kaster would be a good choice for receiving these, he has
always been interested in making Borland better.
jka...@borland.com

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) <rvel...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.1793a0ee...@207.105.83.65...

Randolf Richardson

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Jul 13, 2002, 1:56:00 AM7/13/02
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> I think John Kaster would be a good choice for receiving these, he has
> always been interested in making Borland better.
> jka...@borland.com

Who is he? Is he in management?

Martin Fensome

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Jul 14, 2002, 2:19:39 AM7/14/02
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He is Manager? of Developer Relations or at least he is involved high up in
Dev Relations. He may be tied to the C++ Builder group, but maybe not.. He
has always been interested in furthering Borlands responsiveness to their
customers.
If he isn't the person who can make it happen (probably not) he would surely
know who to forward them to).

Martin

Randolf Richardson <r...@8x.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns9249E865...@207.105.83.65...

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 14, 2002, 7:19:57 AM7/14/02
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In article <Xns9249E865...@207.105.83.65>, Randolf Richardson
says...

> > I think John Kaster would be a good choice for receiving these, he has
> > always been interested in making Borland better.
> > jka...@borland.com
>
> Who is he? Is he in management?

He is in Developer Relations.

http://bdn.borland.com/soapbox/behindthescreen

His boss is David Intersimone (dinter...@borland.com):

http://bdn.borland.com/ (the guy with the beard)

Of course I could also ask them directly.

Robert Prins

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Jul 17, 2002, 5:50:31 AM7/17/02
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote in message ...

>In article <Xns9249E865...@207.105.83.65>, Randolf Richardson
>says...
>
>> > I think John Kaster would be a good choice for receiving these, he
has
>> > always been interested in making Borland better.
>> > jka...@borland.com
>>
>> Who is he? Is he in management?
>
>He is in Developer Relations.
>
> http://bdn.borland.com/soapbox/behindthescreen
>
>His boss is David Intersimone (dinter...@borland.com):
>
> http://bdn.borland.com/ (the guy with the beard)
>
>Of course I could also ask them directly.

Writing to Mr Intersimone is useless, he does not bother to
reply.

Also look at his very extremely completely utterly empty
promise of more software for the museum: where are programs
like Sprint, Reflex, the old toolboxes, the sources for the
now Object only parts of the RTL (EM8x, Graph, BGI)...

Robert
--
Robert AH Prins
pr...@bigfoot.com

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 18, 2002, 3:43:06 PM7/18/02
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In article <3d355605$1_2@dnews>, Robert Prins says...

> Writing to Mr Intersimone is useless, he does not bother to
> reply.

I am not so sure. I guess he gets many emails, so he will probably miss
some. But to say he doesn't reply in general is IMO not very fair, since
you can't know that.



> Also look at his very extremely completely utterly empty
> promise of more software for the museum

He will have to ask others higher up if he can include them in the
museum, and if these say no, he'll have to comply.

Robert Prins

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Jul 18, 2002, 5:49:19 PM7/18/02
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote in message ...
>In article <3d355605$1_2@dnews>, Robert Prins says...
>
>> Writing to Mr Intersimone is useless, he does not bother to
>> reply.
>
> I am not so sure. I guess he gets many emails, so he will probably
> miss some. But to say he doesn't reply in general is IMO not very
> fair, since you can't know that.


When was his last reply to anything posted in the museum????

>> Also look at his very extremely completely utterly empty
>> promise of more software for the museum
>
> He will have to ask others higher up if he can include them in the
> museum, and if these say no, he'll have to comply.

Of course... But if borland.fr can put a still commercially sold TP7
on their site, then I'm just a bit puzzled as to why he hasn't put all
lower versions in the museum...

In 1999 there was a posting on the FreeDos site about Borland maybe
making the _source_ of their older compilers available. I'm still
waiting. Don't tell me that TP 1/2/3 contain any state-of-the-art
code, these programs are 15 or more years old and Borland could
do what Watcom did with it's C & Fortran compilers, make them Open
Source!

Same for the RTL. I've used IDA to disassemble the OCO parts of the
RTL (OVERLAY/OVEREMS/EM86/EM87), but it would be nice to have the
original, probably commented, sources to be able to understand the
logic. (Only EM86, the others are fairly easy)

Or to get an answer as to which byte to change in TD so that the CPU
window defaults to showing the 32-bit registers.

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 19, 2002, 3:08:16 PM7/19/02
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In article <3d373e0c_1@dnews>, Robert Prins says...

> Of course... But if borland.fr can put a still commercially sold TP7
> on their site, then I'm just a bit puzzled as to why he hasn't put all
> lower versions in the museum...

I'm not sure if Borland France is allowed to do it, and I'm not sure if
TP7 is still on sale.



> In 1999 there was a posting on the FreeDos site about Borland maybe
> making the _source_ of their older compilers available.

FreDos is not really an official Borland site. Who wrote that?

> Same for the RTL. I've used IDA to disassemble the OCO parts of the
> RTL (OVERLAY/OVEREMS/EM86/EM87), but it would be nice to have the
> original, probably commented, sources to be able to understand the
> logic. (Only EM86, the others are fairly easy)

Are you sure they still *have* the code? <g>

Markus Humm

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Jul 22, 2002, 12:25:56 PM7/22/02
to

>
>>Same for the RTL. I've used IDA to disassemble the OCO parts of the
>>RTL (OVERLAY/OVEREMS/EM86/EM87), but it would be nice to have the
>>original, probably commented, sources to be able to understand the
>>logic. (Only EM86, the others are fairly easy)
>
>
> Are you sure they still *have* the code? <g>


Are they Microsoft or what?

Randolf Richardson

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Jul 22, 2002, 3:25:21 PM7/22/02
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Didn't Microsoft hire away a bunch of Borland staff a long time ago from
a limousine parked in the street outside the Borland head office?

I'd hate to see Borland get eaten up by Microsoft.

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 22, 2002, 5:41:58 PM7/22/02
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In article <Xns92537D70...@207.105.83.65>, Randolf Richardson
says...

> I'd hate to see Borland get eaten up by Microsoft.

That chance is very, very small. Borland is currently doing great. And
that was years and years ago.

Randolf Richardson

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Jul 22, 2002, 8:03:46 PM7/22/02
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>> I'd hate to see Borland get eaten up by Microsoft.
>
> That chance is very, very small. Borland is currently doing great. And
> that was years and years ago.

I'm scare that they're throwing it all away by abandoning products such
as TASM, and by "abandon" I mean not updating it. For example, the RdTSC
instruction really should be a native part of TASM.

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 22, 2002, 8:57:14 PM7/22/02
to
In article <Xns9253ACA4...@207.105.83.65>, Randolf Richardson
says...

> I'm scare that they're throwing it all away by abandoning products such
> as TASM, and by "abandon" I mean not updating it. For example, the RdTSC
> instruction really should be a native part of TASM.

I guess Borland is concentrating on higher level languages, like Delphi,
Java, and C++. They are doing extremely well, these days, and are
mentioned favourably in many professional magazines.

Randolf Richardson

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Jul 22, 2002, 9:13:27 PM7/22/02
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>> I'm scare that they're throwing it all away by abandoning products such
>> as TASM, and by "abandon" I mean not updating it. For example, the
>> RdTSC instruction really should be a native part of TASM.
>
> I guess Borland is concentrating on higher level languages, like Delphi,
> Java, and C++. They are doing extremely well, these days, and are
> mentioned favourably in many professional magazines.

I know that Delphi is a big hit, but I when it comes to Java or C/C++
the big name in that industry seems to be CodeWarrior these days.

Currently there seems to be quite a loyal following of TASM users, and
my concern is that these customers will slowly slip away as the product
doesn't progress.

If Borland is doing so well in other areas, then they should have no
problem to spare a few resources (or even hire someone if need be) to get TASM
updated, even if it's just one instruction at a time (because eventually
everyone will be satisfied in the end).

TASM was once regarded as the greatest compiler in the world for
assembler developers, but now I see people talk constantly about how the
alternatives are better because they're up to date. Unfortunately it seems
that Borland doesn't realize the urgency here.

Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

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Jul 23, 2002, 3:59:09 PM7/23/02
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In article <Xns9253B874...@207.105.83.65>, Randolf Richardson
says...

> I know that Delphi is a big hit, but I when it comes to Java or C/C++
> the big name in that industry seems to be CodeWarrior these days.

JBuilder is the leading development tool for Java, AFAIK.



> If Borland is doing so well in other areas, then they should have no
> problem to spare a few resources (or even hire someone if need be) to get TASM
> updated, even if it's just one instruction at a time (because eventually
> everyone will be satisfied in the end).

I'm not sure. But you should ask Borland management, not me.

William Meyer

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Jul 26, 2002, 12:04:26 AM7/26/02
to
Robert Prins wrote:

> Writing to Mr Intersimone is useless, he does not bother to
> reply.

David I's problem has always been that there are too many things demanding
his time -- he rarely finds time to handle unsolicited e-mail.



> Also look at his very extremely completely utterly empty
> promise of more software for the museum: where are programs
> like Sprint, Reflex, the old toolboxes, the sources for the
> now Object only parts of the RTL (EM8x, Graph, BGI)...

I have also been disappointed at the lack of additions to the Museum, and
have pinged John Kaster about it, more than once. The problem is that these
guys are generally on the run, busy with shows, and such, and I suppose
that the perception is that the Museum, while fun, brings no measurable
return.

Sprint is on my shelf <g>, though I could wish for source access. Reflex I
still have, but only on floppies which apparently have been damaged by
humidity, as they only seem fit for clogging my heads. I still have the
manuals for the old toolboxes, and probably still have them on 5.25"
diskettes (which seem *not* to be much affected by humidity.) I found
ObjectVision for sale on ebay a few months ago, and for $15, I decided to
splurge -- I liked it years ago, but my old 386/20 was a bit sluggish with
it. You should see it fly on an Athlon!! <g>

Anyway, we can't always get what we want, and if I have to choose, I'd
prefer the devote themselves to present and future projects.

--
Bill
Education guarantees neither good sense nor rational thinking.
- Posted with XanaNews -

William Meyer

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Jul 26, 2002, 12:09:09 AM7/26/02
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Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

> I'm not sure if Borland France is allowed to do it, and I'm not sure if
> TP7 is still on sale.

BP7 had quite a long life, but I think it was finally dropped over Y2K
issues.



> > Same for the RTL. I've used IDA to disassemble the OCO parts of the
> > RTL (OVERLAY/OVEREMS/EM86/EM87), but it would be nice to have the
> > original, probably commented, sources to be able to understand the
> > logic. (Only EM86, the others are fairly easy)
>

> Are you sure they still have the code? <g>

From what I can tell, I'd say that lost code is a high likelihood :-(

Ralf A. Quint

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Jul 27, 2002, 1:42:02 AM7/27/02
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On 25 Jul 2002 21:09:09 -0700, "William Meyer"
<wmhm...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if Borland France is allowed to do it, and I'm not sure if
>> TP7 is still on sale.
>
>BP7 had quite a long life, but I think it was finally dropped over Y2K
>issues.
>

What Y2K issues?
BP7 is still doing fine for me....

Ralf

William Meyer

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Jul 27, 2002, 3:08:19 AM7/27/02
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Ralf A. Quint wrote:

> What Y2K issues?
> BP7 is still doing fine for me....

Simply the issue of certifying it.

Ralf A. Quint

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Aug 3, 2002, 6:49:34 PM8/3/02
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On 27 Jul 2002 00:08:19 -0700, "William Meyer"
<wmhm...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Ralf A. Quint wrote:
>
>> What Y2K issues?
>> BP7 is still doing fine for me....
>
>Simply the issue of certifying it.

Certifying what? Y2K compliance of the compiler? You are kidding,
aren't you?

Whatever Y2K issues i found i my older TP/BP programs, where simply my
own fault, my own code, fixed faster than i could find these errors.

What are Y2K critical function/procedures in BP7 anyway?

Man, some people have problems.... ;-))))

Ralf

William Meyer

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Aug 3, 2002, 10:35:21 PM8/3/02
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Ralf A. Quint wrote:

> Certifying what? Y2K compliance of the compiler? You are kidding,
> aren't you?

No, I'm not. People buying a product expect the vendor to provide support,
and to certify compliance with Y2K issues. I don't recall in what year BP7
was published, but it was well before '95.

> Whatever Y2K issues i found i my older TP/BP programs, where simply my
> own fault, my own code, fixed faster than i could find these errors.
>
> What are Y2K critical function/procedures in BP7 anyway?
>
> Man, some people have problems.... ;-))))

People in corporations have policies to contend with. And yes, that can be
a problem. Numerous of our customers required written commitments from us
with respect to Y2K issues. Shipping a tool built in BP7, you might not be
asked about such things now, as most people assume the issue has been laid
to rest, but you can bet that if your app shows any difficulties in that
area, you will incur their wrath. :-)

--
Bill
Practice random acts of self-restraint.

Randolf Richardson

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Aug 3, 2002, 11:35:25 PM8/3/02
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>> Certifying what? Y2K compliance of the compiler? You are kidding,
>> aren't you?
>
> No, I'm not. People buying a product expect the vendor to provide support,
> and to certify compliance with Y2K issues. I don't recall in what year BP7
> was published, but it was well before '95.
[Snip]

Just because a product was released in 1995 doesn't mean it's NOT year
2000 compliant. In the projects I worked on, I always used a 4-digit year
when dealing with the date since "CCYY-Mmm-DD" has always been my preference,
and I know a few people have always done the same (with regards to the year
anyway).

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