Question about D 2007

[sasha]

Hi! Happy new year.

I past i used delphi up to Delphi 7. Then i switched to VS 2003 and now
our company should make a choise what to do.

The situation is next: one of the most important things wich we need in
our work is a visual inheritance in form designer.

As you know Microsoft created new controls in .NET 2.0 such as GridView,
BindingNavigator, MenuStrip, ToolStrip ets. But it is not possible to
change this controls in inherited forms or controls. You can read about
this here:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=13091&SiteID=1

For our company this is critical bug of VS 2005, so we decided to use
other IDE where this bug not exists.

The question is next: can we expect that in Delphi 2007 visual
inheritance of all .NET 2.0 controls will work fine? It's very very
important for us.

[Wayne Niddery [TeamB]]

sasha wrote:
>
> The situation is next: one of the most important things wich we need
> in our work is a visual inheritance in form designer.
>
> As you know Microsoft created new controls in .NET 2.0 such as
> GridView, BindingNavigator, MenuStrip, ToolStrip ets. But it is not
> possible to change this controls in inherited forms or controls. You
> can read about this here:
> http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=13091&SiteID=1
>
> For our company this is critical bug of VS 2005, so we decided to use
> other IDE where this bug not exists.
>
> The question is next: can we expect that in Delphi 2007 visual
> inheritance of all .NET 2.0 controls will work fine? It's very very
> important for us.

The question is where the "bug" really is - is it in VS 2005, or in the
nature of the controls? If that latter than Delphi probably won;t be able to
help since it will be providing the same .Net 2.0 controls. If the former,
then it is certainly possible Delphi will be able to address this, but not
enough is known about Delphi 2007 (Highlander) yet to know if that is the
case.

--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)
"Light is faster than sound, which is why some folks appear bright
before they speak."

[sasha]

> The question is where the "bug" really is - is it in VS 2005, or in the
> nature of the controls? If that latter than Delphi probably won;t be able to
> help since it will be providing the same .Net 2.0 controls. If the former,
> then it is certainly possible Delphi will be able to address this, but not
> enough is known about Delphi 2007 (Highlander) yet to know if that is the
> case.

Thanks for your answer. Even don't know where this bug is. You can read
this:

http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=115264

I read there next:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not the disability of the VS Designer but it is the ability of
the CustomeDesigners available in VS 2005. For each complex control
there is a CustomeDesigner, like for DataGridView there is a custome
Designer name DataGridViewDesigner in System.Design.dll, which make the
properties in the child class read only. So if you provide the
ControlDesigner (which is the FATHER of all designers, and is capable to
handle almost all the designing functionality) as the designer for any
control then the problem will be solve.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that Borland has very big experience in visual inheritance since
D2. I used this future in D6 and D7 and it worked excellent. So maybe
your engineers can write own control designers. If you'll search
discussing of this problem in internet you will find many people who
need it...

[Wayne Niddery [TeamB]]

sasha wrote:
> I read there next:

>
> This is not the disability of the VS Designer but it is the ability of
> the CustomeDesigners available in VS 2005. For each complex control
> there is a CustomeDesigner, like for DataGridView there is a custome
> Designer name DataGridViewDesigner in System.Design.dll, which make
> the properties in the child class read only. So if you provide the
> ControlDesigner (which is the FATHER of all designers, and is capable
> to handle almost all the designing functionality) as the designer for
> any control then the problem will be solve.

It sounds like it would be possible to supply one's own designers to replace
the ones supplied by MS, but of course this might be a lot of work too. So
the question becomes whether that extra work is worth it. Yes, it would help
some number of developers and be a something that could be trumpeted over
VS, but would the cost really be returned in additional sales of the
product? My *guess* is probably not and that the MS designers will be the
ones used for MS controls.

By the wording in your reply, I need to also point out that TeamB members
are not Borland/Codegear employees - we are customers just like you.

--
Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca)

SpaceShipOne; GovernmentZero

[sasha]

Wayne Niddery [TeamB] wrote:
> sasha wrote:
>> I read there next:
>>
>> This is not the disability of the VS Designer but it is the ability of
>> the CustomeDesigners available in VS 2005. For each complex control
>> there is a CustomeDesigner, like for DataGridView there is a custome
>> Designer name DataGridViewDesigner in System.Design.dll, which make
>> the properties in the child class read only. So if you provide the
>> ControlDesigner (which is the FATHER of all designers, and is capable
>> to handle almost all the designing functionality) as the designer for

> It sounds like it would be possible to supply one's own designers to replace
> the ones supplied by MS, but of course this might be a lot of work too. So
> the question becomes whether that extra work is worth it. Yes, it would help
> some number of developers and be a something that could be trumpeted over
> VS, but would the cost really be returned in additional sales of the
> product? My *guess* is probably not and that the MS designers will be the
> ones used for MS controls.

Understood. So we will search for other development tool...

> By the wording in your reply, I need to also point out that TeamB members
> are not Borland/Codegear employees - we are customers just like you.

I didn't know. Thanks.

[sasha]

> It sounds like it would be possible to supply one's own designers to replace
> the ones supplied by MS, but of course this might be a lot of work too. So
> the question becomes whether that extra work is worth it. Yes, it would help
> some number of developers and be a something that could be trumpeted over
> VS, but would the cost really be returned in additional sales of the
> product? My *guess* is probably not and that the MS designers will be the
> ones used for MS controls.

Downloaded VS Orcas march CTP and this feature does not work there too :-(

For me it is impossible to work in IDE and winforms developing without
form inheritance.

Why Borland think people can buy Delphi instead of VS? I think that for
this Borland's IDE should have some advantages over VS 2005 and form
inheritance can be on top of them.

Maby someone know the place where we can discuss this feature? I know
many people who need this feature very much and will change VS 2005 on
Delphi 2007 if this feature will work.

Please, if someone can explain this to some Borland chief, try to do
something. Don't be silent...