Abandon Borland - Delphi 7 IS BUGGY!
Davinci Jeremie
compiler. In fact Turbo C was my first C compiler I had every used. I have
been a loyal customer of Borland ever since, and have endured some poor
software (Borland C++ 5.0) but now I have had enough.
Yes I agree with you people who think it is poor to claim Delphi as "buggy"
without providing examples. My flammatory subject is simply an attention
getter because I want people to know that I been pushed too far as a
customer.
And Yes, Yes, most bugs are caused by user error. However I can point to
many instances of people have the same PERCEPTION that they have been
abandoned by Borland for not providing a service patch or update for Delphi
7.
I have in the past provided bug information to Borland about Delphi and to
this day they have not been repaired. Yes, the bugs I found where not show
stoppers but when your software vendor ignores enough "Non-Show Stoppers"
the software as whole suffers as each version produces more "Non-Show
Stopper" bugs.
What compounds the problem is that Delphi is written with Delphi so the
problems with the VCL and the application increases like compounding
interest.
I no longer believe in providing problem without providing a possible
solution(s). So, for me anyway, to feel appreciated is for Borland to
simply provide a Delphi 7 update with known issues discovered before and
after deployment be corrected. Another way Borland can salvage our
relationship is to provide Delphi 8 for free. Also another crazy idea would
be for Borland to release the source code to Delphi 7 to the Architect
owners.
I feel that Borland should do something for its D7 customers who have
complained or called for support only to have there issues fall and deaf
ears. Some of you have been attacked by Borland employees or Borland
fanatics for your opinions of the Delphi 7 software. So I would appreciate
that you refrain from attack my opinions on this matter.
Please if you agree with me speak up. There are too many people willing to
disregard my message because it is easier and more entertaining to get into
a mud slinging fight than it is to show support.
Regards,
Davinci Jeremie
Craig van Nieuwkerk
for 18mths with much sucess on a pretty big project and cant say I have come
across any major bugs. Maybe I am not looking hard enough and just more
worried about finishing the project.
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
> Some of you have been attacked by Borland employees or Borland
> fanatics for your opinions of the Delphi 7 software.
In the future, please let us know when such attacks occur, and we'll be
happy to set things right.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick
Jimmy [Used-Disks]
Delphi7
> for 18mths with much sucess on a pretty big project and cant say I have
come
> across any major bugs.
Ditto. Except my project isn't that big... it is pretty complex though :).
--
-Jimmy
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> Some of you have been attacked by Borland employees or Borland
> fanatics for your opinions of the Delphi 7 software. So I would
> appreciate that you refrain from attack my opinions on this matter.
I'm sorry to hear that. Who were they, and what did they say?
And of course everyone can "attack" opinions here. If you didn't want
them up for discussion, you should not have posted them here.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Now, now my good man, this is no time for making enemies."
-- Voltaire (1694-1778) on his deathbed in response to a priest asking
that he renounce Satan.
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>I have in the past provided bug information to Borland about Delphi and to
>this day they have not been repaired.
>
Did you put them in QC? (this is not a flippant reply, it's a serious
question)
>Yes, the bugs I found where not show
>stoppers but when your software vendor ignores enough "Non-Show Stoppers"
>the software as whole suffers as each version produces more "Non-Show
>Stopper" bugs.
>
Who's ignoring show stoppers? How did you report these problems? Again
QC comes up.
But also, did you email us, call us, etc?
>Another way Borland can salvage our
>relationship is to provide Delphi 8 for free.
>
You probably don't want this answer, but if you bought software
assurance for Delphi 7
you would already have Delphi 8 for free.
>Also another crazy idea would
>be for Borland to release the source code to Delphi 7 to the Architect
>owners.
>
Indeed a crazy idea. I don't believe that we will ever give out source
code for our
crown jewels... ;)
>I feel that Borland should do something for its D7 customers
>
I agree. And we're looking at doing just that. Stay tuned.
>who have
>complained or called for support only to have there issues fall and deaf
>ears.
>
No complaints have fallen on deaf ears.
>Some of you have been attacked by Borland employees or Borland
>fanatics for your opinions of the Delphi 7 software.
>
Attacked by Borland employees or fanatics? What does that mean?
Do you mean to tell me that you feel attacked by the dialog we're having
here?
Or do you mean attacked as in posting messages suggesting that everyone
should
abandon your company and product (like "Abandon Borland")?
Look, I'm not trying to start a mud slinging contest. Trust me, we will
do the right
thing. Have some faith.
Thanks!
--
Anders Ohlsson - Borland Developer Relations - http://bdn.borland.com/
Borland Software Corporation - http://www.borland.com/ - Excellence Endures
Enabling our customers to move into the future without abandoning their past
http://homepages.borland.com/aohlsson/blog_beta/
http://homepages.borland.com/aohlsson/disclaimer_ani.gif
Robert Love
>complained or called for support only to have there issues fall and deaf
>ears.
Last night we had John Kaster from Borland in town at our Users Group
Meeting. I don't believe I heard a single Delphi for Win32 Question.
I heard nothing regarding complaints regarding patches. What I did
hear was exicitement regarding Delphi 8 for .NET.
I personally use Delphi 7 and it is my favorite Win32 release of
Delphi. At first I was concerned about the lack of a patch. I even
emailed David I, and Delphi Product Managers. Recently I have
realized my concerns where not my own but that of others.
I still expect an update to Delphi Win32, if that is a patch or a new
version it personally does not matter to me.
In a previous post Michael Swindell mentioned ":at the beginning of
March we will provide additional information on related plans around
Delphi Win32 technology." So would expect to hear these plans
soon.
Note: Michael Swindell Post that I am refering to http://urljr.com/n51
Robert Love
Rick Beerendonk
Delphi 7. The problems Borland is facing are similar to the once I am facing
in my company. Some customers "can't work without that extra function" and
some "don't like the workaround for a certain issue". Time is limited, so I
understand the decision process Borland is facing. They might not always
make the choice I would prefer, but that is no reason for me to become
unhappy. And yes, I have reported bugs that weren't fixed. Okay, it is
frustrating at times, but Delphi is by far the best language & IDE available
for Win32. Oh... and for .NET :-) My love for Delphi is still very strong.
Rick Beerendonk
Hannes Danzl[NDD]
> be for Borland to release the source code to Delphi 7 to the Architect
> owners.
Aside from being completely crazy, what would be the benefit? You get full
source for rtl/vcl/clx. That's what your product uses. *If* there are major
bugs in there that make your product fail, you are free to fix it. If there are
bugs in the IDE or debugger I need to find one first that can't be easily
worked around. I can't speak about Bold, ...
In general we are using Delphi7 since it's out and I find it very nice to work
with and if i remove CodeRush also very stable. For me the productivity gain
using CodeRush is big enough though to keep it in and have to restart Delphi
every other day....
--
Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer]
Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm
eWolverine
Selecting the single row causes the grid to go into edit mode if the
readonly property is not set to true.
Other than that, no bugs for me.
"Davinci Jeremie" <DJerem...@loristech.com> wrote in message
news:404f7cdd$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Nils Boedeker
For my impression.
Delphi 6 is very very ugly buggy... With D7 I'm satisfied.
With D8 I don't have experience...
Nils
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Thomas Miller
coming down the pipe. But when the 52 people there where
asked, only 4 or 5 raised there hand that they would do their
next big project in .Net (either D8 or C#). All of these
projects where ASP.Net. None for Winforms or Delphi VCL.Net.
Even though Delphi 7 is one of the more stable releases I have
used, there are still enough bugs reported in QC to warrant at
least one core SP.
The end of the first part of March is in 5 days. I am waiting
with cautious optimism that Borland will do the right thing
and give us a patch for D7 and then announce an update
for D8 to support win32 as well as .Net.
--
Thomas Miller
Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer
BSS Accounting & Distribution Software
BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork
http://www.bss-software.com
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus
Luigi D. Sandon
come
> across any major bugs. Maybe I am not looking hard enough and just more
It depends on what kind of application you are writing and what features it
uses. Some parts are fairly stable, other - the new ones especially - are
not. For example I had a lot of troubles with XML transformations and had to
abandon them - the same for dbExpress. Others have reported big problems
when using Eastern European or other character sets. Look in QC and you'll
find the list.
The IDE itself is a little buggy compared to previous versions, i.e. code
completion not showing all methods. There are some bugs in XP themes support
too, and some components - i.e. grids - were not updated.
But there are problems still in some "basic" VCL controls - combox! - and
action bands have nasty bugs still.
I resolved most of them using 3rd party controls and libraries, but still
have the feeling D7 was not the quality a Borland product should deserve. D4
was buggy but was fixed, D5 was good but needed patches too, D6 was
beginning to show to be a little to buggy but was patched, although Variants
took a lot of time and dbExpress was not. D7 had only some minor fixes - but
not a comprehensive one - and there are people who paid to use some features
they can't use.
--
Luigi D. Sandon
c...@sandon.it
eshipman
DJerem...@loristech.com says...
<SNIPPED RANT>
Ho hum! SSDD! Or should I have said SSDP (poster)
Davinci Jeremie
The large project I have been working on has seen more fixes to the VCL than
we would like and stability issues with Delphi 7 IDE. Developers have lost
work and time.
So that I understand you have had to make no changes what so ever to the
VCL? And your project has no bugs that can be traced to the VCL?
That's amazing if its true.
Davinci.
"Craig van Nieuwkerk" <cra...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:404f...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>Last night we had John Kaster from Borland in town at our Users Group
>Meeting. I don't believe I heard a single Delphi for Win32 Question.
>I heard nothing regarding complaints regarding patches. What I did
>hear was exicitement regarding Delphi 8 for .NET.
>
I've had that experience at the user groups I've been to as well.
Then again, Delphi 8 for .NET is the topic of these meetings, but I
don't believe that anyone
would hold back either... ;)
>In a previous post Michael Swindell mentioned ":at the beginning of
>March we will provide additional information on related plans around
>Delphi Win32 technology." So would expect to hear these plans
>soon.
>
Like I said, stay tuned.
Davinci Jeremie
Delphi 7 where attacked.
Davinci
"Nick Hodges (TeamB)" <nickh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:404f...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Davinci Jeremie
> them up for discussion, you should not have posted them here.
> --
> Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
You are right. Freedom of speach and all. Just as I'm free to express my
opinon so are others.
Regards,
Davinci
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
> Thanks but I felt that other people who have expressed similar
> options of Delphi 7 where attacked.
In addition to being sure to bring such attacks to our attention, feel
free to report /past/ occurances by browsing through
http://groups.google.com. Such attacks are not tolerated.
However, Rudy's advice is sound: if you don't want people to disagree
with your opinions, then I'd recommend not posting them.
Take care.
Cruxy
update to us. But I think we all know how it's running. At no company are
more human resources as absolutely needed. Nobody could work endless. I
also know that it's absolutely not correct to wait for more than one year
with a needed SP.
But managements has always the "ability" to ignore technical needs....
Another point is, that even D7 (the program, IDE itself) is very stable.
(except a few crashes on closing the program, but they're only
uncomfortable)
I think Delphi for Win32 is still the best environment for Windows
programming. A big problem was, that the future of the environment (in the
shadow of Delphi for .NET) was a long time not really commented by Borland.
Some times ago they told us that there will be an Update for D7 and the
Win32 version of Delphi is not outdated.
We all still expect Software - you'll always find bugs. Think of your own
ones! Do you fix every bug at the moment the message arrives on your desk?
--
cruxyATcruxyDOTnet
DO NOT SEND SPAM!
KNode 0.7.6
Jeff Molloy
I totally disagree with you. For one, provide examples.
For #2. release the source code for Delphi 7? Business suicide.
For #3. Provide Delphi 8 for free? See #2.
And what VCL problems are you referring to?
You sound like someone who wants to start something but can't back anything
up.
Jeff
"Davinci Jeremie" <DJerem...@loristech.com> wrote in message
news:404f7cdd$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Dennis Landi
news:404f8563$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >
Nice!
Davinci Jeremie
clear at this point something's got to change and I have decided it will be
Borland to Microsoft.
"Rick Beerendonk" <ri...@no.spam.beerendonk.com> wrote in message
news:404f8834$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Davinci Jeremie
> Did you put them in QC? (this is not a flippant reply, it's a serious
> question)
Yes
> Anders Ohlsson Said:
> Who's ignoring show stoppers? How did you report these problems? Again
> QC comes up.
> But also, did you email us, call us, etc?
No one at Borland has ever ignored show stoppers. I never said that I said
"NON-Show Stopers".
Yes, I have emailed, called etc...
Some cases we got workarounds others we worked around ourselfs.
> Anders Ohlsson Said:
> Indeed a crazy idea. I don't believe that we will ever give out source
> code for our
> crown jewels... ;)
Yes indeed crazy ;)
> >Davinci Jeremie Said:
> >I feel that Borland should do something for its D7 customers
> >
>
> Anders Ohlsson Said:
> I agree. And we're looking at doing just that. Stay tuned.
That makes me feel better late but I feel better knowing that.
You see thats all that needs to be said in upgrad section of Delphi 7 a line
that states..
Delphi 7 Update Pach 1 (Coming soon)
Or a mailer that states that Borland has not forgoten us. When I call no
one knows if Borland plans to release an update patch.
> Attacked by Borland employees or fanatics? What does that mean?
>
> Do you mean to tell me that you feel attacked by the dialog we're having
> here?
My appologies. I have done some seaching in news groups for the words
"Delphi 7 Update" and some of the postings seemed a bit abrasive. They may
have been just two guys expressing opions and I took it out of context.
> Anders Ohlsson Said:
> No complaints have fallen on deaf ears.
My very first bug report in Delphi 3 still exists today. It has gotten
worse since then.
The problem is easly fixed if objects where pre-defined at the top of the
Type Library IDL.
(NOTE back then it wasn't IDL)
To understand the problem look at Object Pascal if you do this...
TMyDataList = Class;
You can then use the class TMyDataList before it's defined. The same goes
for IDL if you add...
interface INexusObject;
I could use INexusObject before its defined.
The Type Library does alow me to use an interface before its defined just so
long as it is defined. The big problem comes when you try to edit the IDL
Delphi goes nuts and you can't save your work.
If you think there is a bug there or not is not the issue the point I was
getting across to you is that there is a time where I felt ignored.
Regards,
Davinci
Thomas Miller
win32 development is still important. That is why a lot of people are
uneasy. Hopefully that will all be solved by the end of the week.
Cruxy wrote:
> Some times ago they told us that there will be an Update for D7 and the
> Win32 version of Delphi is not outdated.
>
--
Ed Dressel
> I've had that experience at the user groups I've been to as well.
I'll be sure that when in Portland I will ask the token Win 32 question :-)
> >In a previous post Michael Swindell mentioned ":at the beginning of
> >March we will provide additional information on related plans around
> >Delphi Win32 technology." So would expect to hear these plans
> >soon.
> >
>
> Like I said, stay tuned.
>
The defintion of 'beginning' differs depending upon who's talking. If it's
the progrmmer (in this case Borland), it's anywhere before the middle of the
month. If it's a user (us), it's the first working day of the month--and
before then if it's a 3 day weekend<g>
Ed Dressel
Thomas Miller
most stable releases of Delphi. That doesn't mean it shouldn't get a
(or several) core SP. Hopefully we will get word on this by the end
of the week.
Jeff Molloy wrote:
>
> You sound like someone who wants to start something but can't back anything
> up.
>
> Jeff
>
Rhys Sage
product I can use. Borland also produces a working version of its product
that is not crippled - something students can learn on and compile code on
to demonstrate to potential employers. Microsoft by comparison produces a
crippled version of their product that cannot possibly be used as a demo.
I'm happier with the status quo. If Borland's products were really as bad as
the constant whiners try to make everybody believe then they'd simply get
bought out by Microsoft!
--
Yours
Rhys
Join the anti-spam project:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Anti-Spam-Development/
or view my website:
http://www.sageworld.freeserve.co.uk
"Linux - an operating system that wants to work.
Windows - an operating system that mostly works.
Mac OS - an operating system that really works."
Davinci Jeremie
>
as they are to many others. Also if I did provide examples it would time to
compile them all. If you absolutely must have examples do a search on
google for "Delphi 7" Bug or Update.
> For #2. release the source code for Delphi 7? Business suicide.
>
Agreed.
> For #3. Provide Delphi 8 for free? See #2.
>
Some what agree.
> And what VCL problems are you referring to?
>
> You sound like someone who wants to start something but can't back
anything
> up.
Again my problem is the lack of support with updates of known issues and the
fact that I feel abandoned by borland not on what exact bugs need to be
fixed.
Davinci
David Smith
> The end of the first part of March is in 5 days. I am waiting
> with cautious optimism that Borland will do the right thing
> and give us a patch for D7 and then announce an update
> for D8 to support win32 as well as .Net.
I wouldn't hold my breath over the D7 patch just yet. They just fixed
well over 200 bugs for D8, so they couldn't have that much time on their
hands. On the other hand, they have also said at some point that have a
large amount of patches ready, but they need to be tested throughly.
And that takes time.
David
(some might argue that there's no point in testing eg. the TCombobox
fix, because you couldn't possible make it any worse. :-)
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>I'll be sure that when in Portland I will ask the token Win 32 question :-)
>
<note to="self">
Shut up, Anders!
</note>
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>>Did you put them in QC? (this is not a flippant reply, it's a serious
>>question)
>>
>>
>
>Yes
>
Excellent! Have they changed status at all?
>No one at Borland has ever ignored show stoppers.
>
*phew*
>I never said that I said "NON-Show Stopers".
>
Gotcha. I misread you. Sorry.
>That makes me feel better late but I feel better knowing that.
>
Good deal.
>Or a mailer that states that Borland has not forgoten us.
>
Maybe I'll create a e-card and blast it to all... ;)
>My appologies. I have done some seaching in news groups for the words
>"Delphi 7 Update" and some of the postings seemed a bit abrasive.
>
<sarcasm> Really? </sarcasm>
>My very first bug report in Delphi 3 still exists today.
>
That's unfortunate. Which one is this? QC#?
Unfortunately bug fixes have to be prioritized. Sometimes the impact of
the bug
is so small that the TLA known as ROI isn't worth it... Unfortunate fact
of life.
>If you think there is a bug there or not is not the issue the point I was
>getting across to you is that there is a time where I felt ignored.
>
I hear you.
David Smith
> Look, I'm not trying to start a mud slinging contest. Trust me, we will
> do the right
> thing. Have some faith.
Erhm, I wouldn't want to sound too harsh (again), but I surely wouldn't
say "Have some faith". We have had faith in Delphi32 for these long 18+
months, waiting for some sign of support for the product.
I'd use something like "Keep the faith".
Thank you.
David
Dennis Landi
news:404f7cdd$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> I have been an active Borland believer since the DOS days with there C
> compiler. In fact Turbo C was my first C compiler I had every used. I
have
> been a loyal customer of Borland ever since, and have endured some poor
> software (Borland C++ 5.0) but now I have had enough.
>
> Yes I agree with you people who think it is poor to claim Delphi as
"buggy"
> without providing examples. My flammatory subject is simply an attention
> getter because I want people to know that I been pushed too far as a
> customer.
>
I guess I am just lucky. I run the Delphi IDE on Win2K. It is quite simply
ROCK SOLID. (for me)
I don't do a lot of GUI Windows programming, so maybe there are bugs in the
GUI VCL controls I just never see. What GUI work I do, I use DevExpress
component suite. You might want to check those guys out:
http://www.devexpress.com Worth every cent.
-d
JED
> > Anders Ohlsson Said:
> > Did you put them in QC? (this is not a flippant reply, it's a
> > serious question)
>
> Yes
Under what name. I couldn't find any reports under Davinci (first
name) or Jeremie (last name).
Robert Love
>the progrmmer (in this case Borland), it's anywhere before the middle of the
>month. If it's a user (us), it's the first working day of the month--and
>before then if it's a 3 day weekend<g>
Just to help with the "Definition" ;-)
If you the original post http://urljr.com/n51
D8 Update #2 will be out at the beginning of March as well. Since
that should hopefully be appearing tommorow, I would suspect we may be
in the beginning time range. When that time range ends.... <G>
Robert Love
Serge Dosyukov
> However, Rudy's advice is sound: if you don't want people to disagree
> with your opinions, then I'd recommend not posting them.
This is nice one and we need to put this in NG guidelines, we will have then
about 10% of trafic here... <g>
Below is posted under <G>:
1. do not critisize...
2. do not complain...
3. do spend hours on google before asking anything in NG because someone
long time ago did say or answer this and it is your fault what borland NG
are purged regulary (90 days?). Also do not forget to visit every possible
site which post information about Delphi...
--
Serge Dosyukov
Borland Delphi product certified
Microsoft Certified Professional
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
Thanks. Sometimes my on-the-fly translation from Swedish fails on
certain nuances...
;)
Richard Grossman
> I have in the past provided bug information to Borland about Delphi...
A search on your name on QC quickly proves this false.
--
"The system is less energetic when domains of opposite direction
alternate." - Dr. Memory
Matthew S. Vesperman
news:404fbf1c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Davinci Jeremie wrote:
>
> The way it is supposed to work is that you get help from those who know
> more in some area, and you help those who know less.
>
> You might feel a lot better if you tried this...
>
> Meanwhile TeamB, and many other participants here, help each other and
> thus create the Borland community.
>
> You say in your message: "So, for me anyway, to feel appreciated"...
>
> Here's how to feel appreciated: when you are reading the forums and
> someone is asking a question you know the answer to, spend a minute or
> two responding.
>
> Instead of always taking taking taking and always expecting and
> demanding that more more more to be given to you, focus on giving back a
> little.
WELL SAID!!!!!!!!
Richard Grossman
>>> Did you put them in QC? (this is not a flippant reply, it's a serious
>>> question)
FYI, I couldn't find anything under his name in the QC...
Richard Grossman
> I have been an active Borland believer
You know, I did a google search on your name in the borland newsgroups,
and apparently you ask lots and lots and lots of questions, sometimes
even getting mad at the people trying to answer you, but I couldn't
find one example of you helping someone else.
damian marquez
>
> Good for you Rick, my problems come directly from the IDE and the VCL it
is
> clear at this point something's got to change and I have decided it will
be
> Borland to Microsoft.
OK, they have some good stuff...:)
But can you pleeease just mention some of these ACTUAL problems??
damian marquez
> Again my problem is the lack of support with updates of known issues and
the
> fact that I feel abandoned by borland not on what exact bugs need to be
> fixed.
"Known issues"? Man, please this is not serious... Mention at least three or
four showstoppers for your projects...
damian marquez
> Please if you agree with me speak up.
Well, no, I don't think D7 is that buggy... ( and of course NOT so much as
to be unusable as
you imply!...). I think it deserves some update to correct some issues (I
hate that it doesn't let
me delete the newly added columns in an inherited dbgrid...) some AVs here
and there but I've
been using it lately to move a D5 application without any important problem;
what's clear - no
showstopper AT ALL.
Many many people are writing applications with it, many "power developers"
are building
components (which you know puts Delphi to max stress...) and they are of
course - working.
To make this more professional.... Which kind of application you're writing?
What 3rd party
software are you using? Which are the *actual* showstoppers?
Listen.... I have bad days at work sometimes when things go so wrong and I
start yelling everything
is a disaster etc and then I stop and look around and I evaluate the
disaster. You know, this helps.
Thomas Miller
--
Jeff Molloy
Maybe because I only do web and db work with it, but I find it extremely
reliable.
Jeff Molloy
"Thomas Miller" <tmi...@bss-software.com> wrote in message
news:404FA3A...@bss-software.com...
Jeff Molloy
By the way Anders, I went to your web site. Thanks for getting me hooked on
the penguins games:)
Jeff Molloy
"Anders Ohlsson (Borland)" <aohl...@borland.com> wrote in message
news:404f...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Jeff Molloy
I use DevExpress also. Well worth every cent!:)
Jeff Molloy
"Dennis Landi" <[none][at][none][dot][com]> wrote in message
news:404fb49c$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Jeff Molloy
is, but refuse to back it up with examples.
I do not need to look on Google. I find Delphi 7 reliable, others perhaps
not. However, anyone can say a product is wonderful or bad. But if they
do, it would make sense to give examples of what the problems you are having
are and not just saying you have issues.
"Davinci Jeremie" <DJerem...@loristech.com> wrote in message
news:404fa5b9$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> > For #3. Provide Delphi 8 for free? See #2.
> >
> Some what agree.
>
Some what agree? Ok, tell me then how Borland will make money if they give
away their flagship for free?
Remind me not to work for you, we'd be out of business pretty quick:)
Jeff Molloy
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>By the way Anders, I went to your web site. Thanks for getting me hooked on
>the penguins games:)
>
I'm glad I could help! :)
JED
> it would make sense to give examples of what the problems you are
> having are
because there are a lot of people on these forums willing to help when
you do - whether that be confirmation that it is a bug or incorrect
usage and also if there is a workaround.
John Kaster (Borland)
> I wouldn't hold my breath over the D7 patch just yet. They just fixed
> well over 200 bugs for D8, so they couldn't have that much time on
> their hands.
Hmm ... what code base was that? ;-)
--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, http://bdn.borland.com
Add a feature/Fix a bug: http://qc.borland.com
Get source: http://cc.borland.com
chrisC
Thanks for the pointer.
Chris
"Anders Ohlsson (Borland)" <aohl...@borland.com> wrote in message
news:404fe1fb$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>Hmm ... what code base was that? ;-)
>
Everyone should now read my disclaimer... See blog... :-)
David Clegg
> Everyone should now read my disclaimer... See blog... :-)
Good to see those Borland Lawyers found those "Happy Cookies". But,
shouldn't that 3rd last sentance read "So long, and thanks for all the
fish" ? <g>
And is something similar going to make it into the D9 EULA? :-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
http://cc.borland.com/codecentral/ccweb.exe/author?authorid=72299
Quality Central. The best way to bug Borland about bugs.
http://qc.borland.com
"Vampires are make believe, just like elves and gremlins and
eskimos." - Homer Simpson
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>But,
>shouldn't that 3rd last sentance read "So long, and thanks for all the
>fish" ? <g>
>
Are you telling me it isn't? ;)
>And is something similar going to make it into the D9 EULA? :-)
>
>
You never know what I might slip in there... <g>
Andrew Rybenkov
> source for rtl/vcl/clx. That's what your product uses. *If* there are major
> bugs in there that make your product fail, you are free to fix it.
doesn't help if you use runtime packages.
--
Andrew Rybenkov.
Michael Swindell (Borland)
> March we will provide additional information on related plans around
> Delphi Win32 technology." So would expect to hear these plans
> soon.
>
> Note: Michael Swindell Post that I am refering to http://urljr.com/n51
Apologies for the delay. The 8.1 update will be out any moment now, and I'll
follow up very shortly with some new details on Win32/D7 etc... -m
Oliver Townshend
> VCL? And your project has no bugs that can be traced to the VCL?
>
> That's amazing if its true.
Can't some people report their good experiences without being patronized and
disbelieved?
I've had my projects on Delphi 7 (using Developer Express components) for
the last year, and they are all quite stable.
Oliver Townshend
dk_sz
> this day they have not been repaired. Yes, the bugs I found where not
show
> stoppers but when your software vendor ignores enough "Non-Show Stoppers"
> the software as whole suffers as each version produces more "Non-Show
> Stopper" bugs.
I agree with this!
best regards
Thomas Schulz
Robert Cerny
He mentioned it was in D3. There was no QC at that time. There was "submit a
bug" link at the bottom of dev support page on borland site. Bugs reported
there were not transferred to QC.
--
Robert Cerny
DelphiShaman
"JED" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:xn0dfnb3...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> Under what name. I couldn't find any reports under Davinci (first
> name) or Jeremie (last name).
>
>
Robert Cerny
> most stable releases of Delphi. That doesn't mean it shouldn't get a
> (or several) core SP. Hopefully we will get word on this by the end
> of the week.
>
Didn't have this impression. Unless you mean IDE stability. There seemed to
be a rule that odd versions of Delphi are more stable than even versions. D7
almost broke this rule, it's little better that D6, but a lot worse than D5.
Here i mean RTL bugs as well as IDE bugs.
Bug fixes do not generate revenue, but new releases with "exciting" new
features. In short term.
This is one of costs of public company: greedy investors, if the immediate
profit goes down, they pull out and stock goes down,...
In longer term, bugs pile up, more customers get unhappy, some are driven
away, worses general perception about company,.... less new
customers/upgraders, raise prices, less money and interest to fix bugs...
and the spiral goes down.
I hope Borland will wake up before it happens.
--
Robert Cerny
DelphiShaman
Leonel
> See blog
"According to credible sources"... LOL
--
Leonel
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> > And of course everyone can "attack" opinions here. If you didn't want
> > them up for discussion, you should not have posted them here.
> > --
> > Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
>
>
> You are right. Freedom of speach and all. Just as I'm free to express
> my opinon so are others.
Actually, there is no freedom of speech on a private server. If you are
free to say something, it is because Borland lets you.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"C combines all the power of assembly language with the ease of use of
assembly language" -- trad
John Pressman
# Everyone should now read my disclaimer... See blog... :-)
:-)
Leonel
> Er... the original thread was titled "Abandon Borland - Delphi 7 IS
> BUGGY!". No mention of D3, AFAICS.
He's proably refering to "My very first bug report in Delphi 3 still
exists today.", which Davinci said in his reply to Anders.
--
Leonel
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> Hi,
>
> > However, Rudy's advice is sound: if you don't want people to disagree
> > with your opinions, then I'd recommend not posting them.
>
> This is nice one and we need to put this in NG guidelines, we will have
> then about 10% of trafic here... <g>
>
> Below is posted under <G>:
<snip>
But I said exactly the opposite: If you post here, expect to get contrary
opinions as reply. The best way to avoid such replies is not to post here.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
-- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> Of course not.
> He mentioned it was in D3. There was no QC at that time. There was
> "submit a bug" link at the bottom of dev support page on borland site.
> Bugs reported there were not transferred to QC.
Er... the original thread was titled "Abandon Borland - Delphi 7 IS
BUGGY!". No mention of D3, AFAICS.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who
cannot read them."
-- Mark Twain (1835-1910)
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
YAY!
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."
- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> Thanks but I felt that other people who have expressed similar options
> of Delphi 7 where attacked.
I guess that depends on what you call an attack.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them
except in the form of bread."
- Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)
Rick Beerendonk
> Good for you Rick, my problems come directly from the IDE and the VCL it
is
> clear at this point something's got to change and I have decided it will
be
> Borland to Microsoft.
I've run into VCL problems, but they were almost always fixed in the next
update. However, I have never been forced to recompile the VCL with my
bugfixes. There was always a way around!
What were your IDE problems? I use D7 every day, but I don't have them,
really!
Rick Beerendonk
Marcello Dias
"Davinci Jeremie" <DJerem...@loristech.com> wrote:
There are too many people willing to
>disregard my message because it is easier and more entertaining to get into
>a mud slinging fight than it is to show support.
Hi Davinci,
I was very stressed last year because of a lot of errors I considered Show Stoppers,and in fact they were.
The solution I found was to use a lot of third part products.
I dropped Dbexpress and now I´m using Ado(TbetterAdoDataSet to be precise).
I´m using a lot of Developer Express Stuff(Their product and support are just perfect).
If you need remote computing the solution is Rem Objects.
It´s like Formula 1 ,I´m only using a Borland Motor and buy
tires and Oil from other companies.
This is the bad news,The good news is that it seems to me that Borland has started to hear its customers more in the last few months,Delphi 8 is in its Second Update pack.
For myself I prefer Borland working in improving and fixing Delphi 8 than on correcting Delphi 7,because I have done so many workaround in Delphi 7 and I´m using so many third part products that I won´t probably be benefitied by anything Borland does in Delphi 7.(Almost Nothing ,I still want a datamodule that could be placed inside a form).
Regards,
Marcello Dias
Robert Love
>
>Apologies for the delay. The 8.1 update will be out any moment now, and I'll
>follow up very shortly with some new details on Win32/D7 etc... -m
Thank you for the heads up.
Robert Love
John Herbster (TeamB)
"Davinci Jeremie" <DJerem...@loristech.com> wrote
> Yes I agree with you people who think it is poor to
> claim Delphi as "buggy" without providing examples.
Davinci,
Why don't you provide examples of the D7 bugs that
affect you? (Myself, I have found nothing more than
minor inconveniences, so minor that I cannot think of
any right now.)
> My flammatory subject is simply an attention getter
> because I want people to know that I been pushed
> too far as a customer.
If this is an apology for your flame in your flame itself,
it is not effective.
Can you tell us how far you have been pushed, so we
can appreciate your problem and maybe have some
empathy?
Regards, JohnH
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
> Here i mean RTL bugs as well as IDE bugs.
RLT Bugs? Which ones? Do you have QC numbers for these?
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick
Mike Swaim
> Davinci Jeremie wrote:
>
>> I have in the past provided bug information to Borland about
> A search on your name on QC quickly proves this false.
What if he didn't use QC? Not only is it less than 2 years old, but I
believe that there are still other channels for bug reporting.
--
Mike Swaim sw...@hal-pc.org at home | Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W & D
MD Anderson Dept. of Biostatistics & Applied Mathmatics
mps...@mdanderson.org or msw...@odin.mdacc.tmc.edu at work
Disclaimer: Yeah, like I speak for MD Anderson.
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
> This is nice one and we need to put this in NG guidelines, we will
> have then about 10% of trafic here... <g>
Do you have a point that I've missed here, Serge?
Brion L. Webster
> Thanks. Sometimes my on-the-fly translation from Swedish fails on
> certain nuances...
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork
-Brion
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>Er... the original thread was titled "Abandon Borland - Delphi 7 IS
>BUGGY!". No mention of D3, AFAICS.
>
>
And he told me he had logged bugs in QC in his response to my direct
question.
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork
>
>
The requested URL |/intl/xx-bork| was not found on this server.
http://ww6.borland.com/webservices/BorlandBabel/BorlandBabel.exe
:)
Richard Grossman
> What if he didn't use QC? Not only is it less than 2 years old, but I
> believe that there are still other channels for bug reporting.
Same facts, different slant:
Why wouldn't he use QC? It's almost 2 years old, and it's the best
channel for bug reporting.
--
"The system is less energetic when domains of opposite direction
alternate." - Dr. Memory
Richard Grossman
> The solution I found was to use a lot of third part products.
I guess I figured this out on my very first project in Delphi. For
highly targeted requirements, 3rd-party is the way to go. A 1- or even
5-person shop can turn around bug fixes and updates very fast, so if
they are committed, they can outperform a big company with a lot of
responsibilities like Borland, in their niche.
To this I want to add that their are also niche-experts without
components to sell but who have volunteered to share their knowledge in
any area; Earl F. Glynn comes to mind here, as does Paul Nichols, Bob
Swart and a whole host of others (well Bob is something of a generalist
actually).
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> >
> >
> > Er... the original thread was titled "Abandon Borland - Delphi 7 IS
> > BUGGY!". No mention of D3, AFAICS.
> >
> >
>
> And he told me he had logged bugs in QC in his response to my direct
> question.
Yes, indeed.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense."
- Tom Clancy
Davinci Jeremie
> and apparently you ask lots and lots and lots of questions, sometimes
> even getting mad at the people trying to answer you, but I couldn't
> find one example of you helping someone else.
You have not looked hard enough.
Also people have emailed me in the past asking if I ever fixed a problem and
I have helped the.
> Instead of always taking taking taking and always expecting and
> demanding that more more more to be given to you, focus on giving back a
> little.
This is what I mean about being attached why do I have to defend my self
about helping people when my subject was about abandonment?
I will not continue a discussion with you Richard, Good day.
Davinci
Serge Goupinets
employees or TeamBers ask is whether a bug was reported to QC.
And when the person replies "yes, it has been sitting there for a
couple of years" or "it was reported, emailed, faxed... at the time of
D3" they start talking about how small and unimportant those bugs are,
future promises, limited resources, different priorities etc. Why don't
just say "Sorry guy. You have to live with your problems. Borland does
not care". I guess that would stop many discussions right away.
Serge Goupinets
Nick Hodges (TeamB)
> they start talking about how small and unimportant those bugs are,
> future promises, limited resources, different priorities etc.
Go here:
http://www.lemanix.com/nick/articles/179.aspx
Read #13.
Heed it.
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>Why don't
>just say "Sorry guy. You have to live with your problems. Borland does
>not care". I guess that would stop many discussions right away.
>
>
So you want us to lie? We *do* care!
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> I was very stressed last year because of a lot of errors I considered
> Show Stoppers,and in fact they were.
Show stoppers are critical bugs that prevent you from doing any serious
work with the product. Obviously you managed to work with it anyway.
What were the show stoppers you experienced?
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Raymond's Law of Software: Given a sufficiently large number of eyeballs,
all bugs are shallow." -- Eric S. Raymond
Anders Ohlsson (Borland)
>
>He said he did, when Anders asked.
>
>
Maybe he can post his QC #'s?
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> >
> >
> > He said he did, when Anders asked.
> >
> >
>
> Maybe he can post his QC #'s?
Would probably help addressing them, indeed. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"His ignorance is encyclopedic"
-- Abba Eban (1915-2002)
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
> Richard Grossman wrote:
> > Davinci Jeremie wrote:
> >
> >> I have in the past provided bug information to Borland about
> >> Delphi...
> > A search on your name on QC quickly proves this false.
>
> What if he didn't use QC?
He said he did, when Anders asked.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds,
and the pessimist fears this is true."
- James Branch Cabell
Jeffrey Miller
> So you want us to lie? We *do* care!
Intentionally ambiguous??? (;
Serge Dosyukov
But it should be a little bit smaller (font size) then people will be able
to read it better <g>
--
Serge Dosyukov
Borland Delphi product certified
Microsoft Certified Professional
"Anders Ohlsson (Borland)" <aohl...@borland.com> wrote in message
news:404ff14f$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >
> >
> >Hmm ... what code base was that? ;-)
> >
>
> Everyone should now read my disclaimer... See blog... :-)
Serge Dosyukov
My points are:
1. when post like one from root happened here (and it happened more often
lately) ("When update will be available", "when fixes will be provided"...
etc) two opinions are absolutely have a place
a. Delphi 7 has a bugs, and QC 5750 had a list of them collected. We
should stop to deny it even it is might be considered as bad publicity
Locale support, XML support, ADO support, XP support,
Actions related components... this is not even reports, it is a groups which
are not yet been addressed
b. Delphi 7 is a stable product in many areas, nobody says opposite.
If this wasn't true nobody did buy it during last 3 years. Or if did and did
not satisfied there will be massive returns and recalls.
And there will be no D8 at all...
2. Please extend a "life" of posts in NG so people will be able to search
for them for longer time (AND/OR make a history available as a archive, many
forums doing this)
3. If we consider such posts as "repeated"... they could be assigned to a
"my favorite" group and then any new one just "killed" with reference to an
old discussion
4. Please revise a "style" of replies in such posts (I know we are all has
our limit of patience... still... as someone mentioned here, this groups are
for support...)
- "who are you - I didn't see you in QC" - this does not mean person
posted doesn't work with
Delphi and/or doesn't have any problem. Until real patches
happened based on QC, I personally
do not see sometime a reason to post there. QC, unfortunately,
is not a magic wand, yet
- "don't blame Borland - blame yourself" - it might be a good advice
but it bringing a different subject for discussion here
- "before complain, post your reports in QC" - will be OK if in
couple months at least showstoppers appear as a "fixed", not years
5. Borland *as much as possible* should be open for informing their
customers about a plans to address an issues which Borland *is aware*.
Please refer to any latest open letters during last 12 month (period
might be longer, but it started to boost lately) : there is information
about upcoming Update#1 for Delphi 7 which was postponed several times
shifting again and again and again. As a manager I would say it is not good
for my business because does set false expectations, as a developer I feel
even more embarrassed when workaround is available in QC/NG for years and
yet still not available as a patch/update/hot-fix. From one point people
stop to response to these promises and start to look around.
I hope this reply is constructive enough to describe my prior post...
--
Serge Dosyukov
Borland Delphi product certified
Microsoft Certified Professional
"Nick Hodges (TeamB)" <nickh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40508519$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Davinci Jeremie
Nick Hodges,
Rudy Velthuis
Anders Ohlsson
For your responces.
I was ready to go and gather all my bug list and Show them to you, but then
I thought why? Thease bugs have presisted for many version of Delphi it is
clear they will not be repaired so what would be the point mentioning them?
Besides I have learned to live with them or worked arround them.
So I thought what is it do I want from Borland?
My answer is Nothing because I expect it.
So why post my flame?
Because I see good in Borland they have not traviled completly to the dark
side yet. Also it is in my hope that some one at Borland will relize that,
Yes all the small bugs creates larger problems and reflect the quality of
the Delphi product. And with this revilation change can begin.
So for me right now I feel that if Borland can't mind the details how can I
trust them with the big ones? When Borland feels it's acceptable to have an
incorrect system menu when your application is right clicked, or right
clicking edit fields don't display context menus since Delphi 4, it has me
conserned. This should be a consern of everyone speicaly for developers at
Borland.
Why should small bug be of a consern after all bugs happen right?
Yes they do happen and thats ok. What's not ok is what pushed me over the
edge, and the fact that Borland has allowed small bugs to persist as each
new version is released. That's bad and since Delphi 7 could be considered
the end of the road for Win32 development. I have to ask why should I
follow Borland to .NET?
I am not happy with this aspect of Borland and I am shocked that only 2
people agree with me.
Regards,
Davinci Jeremie
Brion L. Webster
> The requested URL |/intl/xx-bork| was not found on this server.
http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/
Sorry about that - missed the trailing slash. I hate it when they
do that!
-Brion
Robert Love
>edge, and the fact that Borland has allowed small bugs to persist as each
>new version is released. That's bad and since Delphi 7 could be considered
>the end of the road for Win32 development. I have to ask why should I
>follow Borland to .NET?
You should check out the brand new "Delphi 8 and Win32 Update Details
" thread started by Michael Swindel.
He announces a FREE 7.1 Update for registered users, and says that the
next major version of Delphi will include Win32 and .NET in the same
IDE. This looks like Borland is listening and acting.
Robert Love
Serge Goupinets
> I am not happy with this aspect of Borland and I am shocked that only
> 2 people agree with me.
>
> Regards,
>
> Davinci Jeremie
Well I guess those who had to abandon Delphi are gone from these
newsgroups as well. And the remaining majority here is worshiping
Borland no matter what. You have to accept this fact otherwise you will
feel yourself here a bit uncomfortably.
Serge Goupinets
Serge Goupinets
> He announces a FREE 7.1 Update for registered users, and says that the
> next major version of Delphi will include Win32 and .NET in the same
> IDE. This looks like Borland is listening and acting.
>
> Robert Love
Why did you stress FREE word? Are the developers paid for D7 supposed
to purchase the patch and it is Borland mercy on them to save few bucks?
Serge Goupinets