Re: Is Dephi going to die a slow, but surely death?
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Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
Not anytime soon. You can sleep safely.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"We all agree that your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough?"
- Niels Bohr (1885-1962)
Gbenga Abimbola
I posted this to database DBExpress, but was advised to send it
here:
===
I don't know where to post this message. Meanwhile
after looking at C-Sharp about a year ago, I immediately
recognized that its architectural design is similar to Delphi in
many ways, and that was what scared me. C-Sharp syntax is quite
similar to the "C families: C, C++, Java," and this may draw a
lot of Delphites (including myself) to it, since there is very
little job opportunites for the Delphi programmers. Yet Delphi
is sophisticated and well designed from the ground up. However,
one of its weakness (very few in my opinion) was the lack of
a good reporting tools at first, but the .NET version has changed
the landscape (Rave Report, well, I never used it; I would rather
use the popular Crystal Report).
That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
I would really hate to see it go away.
Thanks.
Gbenga
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Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
Someone probably does, but I sure don't.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick
Jim Cooper
> You know that Delphi now includes Crystal Reports, right?
And that you should avoid it like the plague? :-)
A horrible, horrible, horrible thing.
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
__________________________________________
Jim Cooper jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk
Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
__________________________________________
Craig Stuntz [TeamB]
> Yet Delphi
> is sophisticated and well designed from the ground up. However,
> one of its weakness (very few in my opinion) was the lack of
> a good reporting tools at first, but the .NET version has changed
> the landscape (Rave Report, well, I never used it; I would rather
> use the popular Crystal Report).
You know that Delphi now includes Crystal Reports, right?
-Craig, who uses CR in Win32 apps only.
--
Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz
Want to help make Delphi and InterBase better? Use QC!
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Kevin Berry
> That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
No. It has being dying a slow death since 1995 according to a small
paranoid bunch of people.
> I would really hate to see it go away.
Me too. But I guess if we keep buying it it won't go away. So Delphi
has my vote... cast as recently as the 2005 election. ;-)
Besides... why lock yourself into a product that is much more limited.
C# can only officially target .NET and that's that.
Cheers,
Kevin.
Dan Thomas
>
>> You know that Delphi now includes Crystal Reports, right?
>
>
> And that you should avoid it like the plague? :-)
>
> A horrible, horrible, horrible thing.
And why, exactly, is that a horrible thing?
-Dan
PS: I'm really only replying because I'm trying out Thunderbird and I
want to make sure it works correctly. But I am curious as to why this is
horrible.
PPS: If anyone happens to read this and can tell if it's in plain text
or HTML or something else, please let me know. Thanks!
David Clegg
> PPS: If anyone happens to read this and can tell if it's in plain
> text or HTML or something else, please let me know. Thanks!
Looks like plain text to me.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
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Dan Thomas
>
> Looks like plain text to me.
>
Thanks!!
Ingvar Nilsen
> Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
Not a fast, but certainly a sure death.
In about 5 billion years, the sun will start to grow, become a red giant
and swallow the earth together with Delphi and all its DLLs.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
somebody
> That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
Count how many Delphi books your local bookstore carries. Also count how
many entry level Delphi positions there are in your neck of the woods.
Things are probably a little better in Europe but Delphi is already on life
support.
"Henrick Hellström [StreamSec]"
> In about 5 billion years, the sun will start to grow, become a red giant
> and swallow the earth together with Delphi and all its DLLs.
Delphi is already carried by radio waves emitted by wireless LANs,
traveling well beyond the outer limits of the solar system. <g>
--
Henrick Hellström
www.streamsec.com
Crazy Horse's crazier little brother
news:421f7c5b$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> Count how many Delphi books your local bookstore carries. Also count how
> many entry level Delphi positions there are in your neck of the woods.
> Things are probably a little better in Europe but Delphi is already on
> life
> support.
# of books doesn't mean diddlysquat--most coders use the Web almost
exclusively nowdays for code samples, tutorials, etc.
In "my neck of the woods," my phone was ringing off the hook with Delphi
jobs for a couple of weeks recently--but I'm happily employed, so did not
follow up.
--
Blackbird Crow Raven, NSGW
John Jacobson
news:421f68f5$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
Slow? Yes, very, very slow.
Sure? Yes, death is the only sure thing in this universe.
JohnE
> I would really hate to see it go away.
We've moved all of our development for .Net and Asp.net to Microsoft. I had
to do it. Programmer frustration with D8 was so bad, we made the move then.
We now have a large product that is ready to launch that was not built with
Borland tools.
If Delphi dies it will be because Borland tried to compete with M$, and we
all know what happens when you try to do that :-)
John
John Jacobson
My bookstore is Amazon.com. They carry a few Delphi books.
> Also count how
> many entry level Delphi positions there are in your neck of the woods.
For that matter count how many entry level positions there are for any
specific development tool.
ozbear
<gabi...@columbus.gov> wrote:
<snip>
>
>That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
<snip>
No.
Oz
--
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A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
David Clegg
> Sure? Yes, death is the only sure thing in this universe.
That and "Delphi is dying" threads in non-tech.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
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GrandmasterB
> I would really hate to see it go away.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.pascal.delphi.advocacy/msg/e8e5b47fbb90119b
People have been predicting Delphi's death since version 1. I wont get
worried until people STOP wondering about its demise!
Richard Foersom
> plain text or HTML or something else, please let me know.
> Thanks!
In Mozilla (and Thunderbird) when viewing a newsgroup posting or
an email you can select View-Message Source or press Ctrl-U to
see the source code of the message. ... And it indeed look like
plain text.
Gbenga Abimbola
Yes I do. That was the reason that I said .NET version has
changed the landscape with respect to a report writing tool.
Brion L. Webster
> If Delphi dies it will be because Borland tried to compete with
> M$, and we all know what happens when you try to do that :-)
But haven't they been doing exactly that, pretty near forever?
Delphi competed with Visual Studio, TurboPascal competed with MS
Basic...
Even if it doesn't last forever, they're holding out a *lot* longer
than most folks.
-Brion
Kyle A. Miller
> If Delphi dies it will be because Borland tried to compete with M$, and we
> all know what happens when you try to do that :-)
Delphi 1 was called the "VB Killer." I think relations between Borland
and Microsoft are less competitive than the days of name calling. What
has changed is not Borland deciding to compete with MS; MS has decided
to compete with Borland.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> People have been predicting Delphi's death since version 1.
Man, is that ever true.
David Clegg
> Yeah, they have, but with .Net, Borland is not performing against M$
> as well as they have in the past.
I'm not so sure it's so much a case of Borland underperforming, rather
that MS has finally released a half decent dev tool offering. VS.NET
2003 is leaps and bounds better than VS6 was, but I still prefer D2005
for most things.
--
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David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
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Simpson.
Ingvar Nilsen
> Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths? I would really
> hate to see it go away.
Me too. But giving it some serious thought, if you see any symptoms of
lethal illness, I suggest to put Delphi in frozen hibernation and wake
it up when the software industry has developed methods to cure it.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
JohnE
> that MS has finally released a half decent dev tool offering. VS.NET
> 2003 is leaps and bounds better than VS6 was, but I still prefer D2005
> for most things.
I love Pascal, and for that I love Delphi, version 7 that is. As soon as
you build a development team that is 3+ programmers, you need
a reliable tool, and VS provides that. Furthermore, there's plenty
of C# programmers in the talent pool.
John
David Clegg
> As soon as
> you build a development team that is 3+ programmers, you need
> a reliable tool,
A development team of one developer requires a reliable tool. Not very
productive if you have to fight the IDE that's meant to be helping your
productivity.
> VS provides that.
My D2005 install is more reliable than my VS.NET 2003 one. The latter
will freeze when perfoming something as simple as unpinning a docked
form in the IDE. And a previous installation could be crashed at will
simply by opening a Database Project in the Solution Explorer.
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
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Homer Simpson
JohnE
> Delphi competed with Visual Studio, TurboPascal competed with MS
> Basic...
Yeah, they have, but with .Net, Borland is not performing against M$
as well as they have in the past.
JOhn
Ingvar Nilsen
> My D2005 install is more reliable than my VS.NET 2003 one.
VS.NET 2003 is a bag full of bugs.
One may wonder how on earth a company giant like MS has managed released
such an unfinished product, for instance you would expect docking to
work flawlessly in a product made by someone who should indeed have a
clue about what a "window" is.
Docked windows in VS.NET 2003 live their own unpredictable life, try for
instance to dock the output window to the left side, where the toolbox
resides.. good luck..
I am working both with D6-D7 and VS.Net, - and while Delphi may freeze
or vanish once every 3 months, VS.Net 2003 does it on a regular basis.
Fortunately it is up and running again within a few seconds, but still..
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Jim Cooper
> And why, exactly, is that a horrible thing?
It's slow, bug-ridden, difficult to use and a complete PITA to install
on end-users' machines.
> PPS: If anyone happens to read this and can tell if it's in plain text
> or HTML or something else, please let me know. Thanks!
Plain text
Cheers,
Jim Cooper
__________________________________________
Jim Cooper jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk
Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk
TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm
__________________________________________
Ingvar Nilsen
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>
>> In about 5 billion years, the sun will start to grow, become a red
>> giant and swallow the earth together with Delphi and all its DLLs.
>
>
> Delphi is already carried by radio waves emitted by wireless LANs,
> traveling well beyond the outer limits of the solar system. <g>
When did wireless LANs become common? Since Delphi is 10 years, it has
idealistically already reached Ross 154, but in any case, they are
already well into COM, WebBroker and CGI apps at Proxima Centauri, while
the guys circling around Wolf have to fight the D4 bugs :)
Proxima CentauriAlpha Cen C 4.3
Rigil Kentaurus Alpha Cen A 4.3
Alpha Centauri B 4.3
Barnard's Star 5.9
Wolf 359 7.6
Lalande 21185 8.1
Sirius A Alpha CMa A 8.6
Sirius B 8.6
Luyten 726-8A 8.9
Luyten 726-8B UV Cet 8.9
Ross 154 9.4
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Captain Jake
<421fb0df$1...@newsgroups.borland.com>
> Proxima CentauriAlpha Cen C 4.3
> Rigil Kentaurus Alpha Cen A 4.3
> Alpha Centauri B 4.3
> Barnard's Star 5.9
> Wolf 359 7.6
> Lalande 21185 8.1
> Sirius A Alpha CMa A 8.6
> Sirius B 8.6
> Luyten 726-8A 8.9
> Luyten 726-8B UV Cet 8.9
> Ross 154 9.4
>
Aye, we be geeks here.
--
***Free Your Mind***
Posted with JSNewsreader-BETA 0.9.4.432
Wayne Davis
says...
The VCL took a bit to get used to, but it was so far ahead of it's time
it was a joke.
somebody
> "somebody" <some...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> > Count how many Delphi books your local bookstore carries.
> My bookstore is Amazon.com. They carry a few Delphi books.
They also carry ALGOL books.
> > Also count how
> > many entry level Delphi positions there are in your neck of the woods.
> For that matter count how many entry level positions there are for any
> specific development tool.
There are quite a few for MS tools. I have never seen anybody specifically
looking for a Delphi entry level programmer. No new blood means Delphi is
following in the footsteps of Cobol. Most of us staying with Delphi are
Turbo Pascal era programmers.
Ingvar Nilsen
> Delphi 1 was my savior. True Visual programming and low level access.
> The VCL took a bit to get used to, but it was so far ahead of it's
> time it was a joke.
Yes. And Delphi developers are still far ahead, and should take
advantage of this, in the .Net world.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> PPS: If anyone happens to read this and can tell if it's in plain
> text or HTML or something else, please let me know. Thanks!
Plain text.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"If you give a man a fish, he will eat for today. If you teach him to
fish, he'll understand why some people think golf is exciting." -- P.G.
Wodehouse
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> If Delphi dies it will be because Borland tried to compete with M$,
AFAIK, they have been doing that since well before Delphi 1. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"So I was getting into my car, and this bloke says to me "Can you
give me a lift?" I said "Sure, you look great, the world's your
oyster, go for it.'" -- Tommy Cooper
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> But haven't they been doing exactly that, pretty near forever?
> Delphi competed with Visual Studio, TurboPascal competed with MS
> Basic...
... and MS QuickPascal <g>
>
> Even if it doesn't last forever, they're holding out a lot longer
> than most folks.
Indeed.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"I hear Glenn Hoddle has found God. That must have been one hell
of a pass." -- Bob Davies.
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> Yeah, they have, but with .Net, Borland is not performing against M$
> as well as they have in the past.
I disagree. I think they are still better. YMMV.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist--" - John B. Sedwick,
general, dying words, 1864
David Farrell-Garcia
>; I would rather
> use the popular Crystal Report).
I would rather be poked me in the eye with a fork, then use Crystal
Reports.
--
David Farrell-Garcia
Whidbey Island Software LLC
Posted with XanaNews 1.17.2.7
Ingvar Nilsen
> Gbenga Abimbola wrote:
>
>
>> ; I would rather use the popular Crystal Report).
>
>
> I would rather be poked me in the eye with a fork, then use Crystal
> Reports.
Do you have experience with both, so that you can make a qualified
statement? :)
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Mike Vance
There are some programming language bigots that say that anything that
is not C++ is doomed to perish. Or is it anything that is not Java? Or
was it Visual Basic? C#? Well, one of those big name languages.
Delph is here to stay as long as any of us are alive. It is the only
tool that can migrate smoothly from producing high-efficiency Win32
executables to producing .NET crud (which I neither use nor want, but it
feels nice to know the option is there).
But it is not produced by Microsoft, so people will always talk about
its demise.
somebody
> > That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
> > I would really hate to see it go away.
> People have been predicting Delphi's death since version 1.
Granted, but looking at the way the story of the boy who cried wolf ends, I
wouldn't take comfort in this.
Dan Miser
>> People have been predicting Delphi's death since version 1.
>
> Granted, but looking at the way the story of the boy who cried wolf ends,
> I
> wouldn't take comfort in this.
>
--
Dan Miser
http://www.distribucon.com
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
The people who predicted Delphi's demise will eventually be killed and
eaten? I think that is a bit harsh.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"I have four children which is not bad considering I'm
not a Catholic." -- Peter Ustinov.
Jim Cooper
> Granted, but looking at the way the story of the boy who cried wolf ends, I
> wouldn't take comfort in this.
Borland are going to send wolves out to eat those predicting Delphi's
demise? :-)
Ingvar Nilsen
>> Granted, but looking at the way the story of the boy who cried wolf
>> ends, I wouldn't take comfort in this.
>
>
> The people who predicted Delphi's demise will eventually be killed
> and eaten? I think that is a bit harsh.
I think his point was that the wolf finally showed up, after all, and
not what happened to the boy.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Gbenga Abimbola
It appears that the next wave is the battle of the IDE. With the
release of Delphi 2005, Borland, may be able to hold on longer. Why?Delphi 2005 includes "3 personalities:" Delphi WIn32,
Delphi for.NET and C#!. I also learned that C++ will be
included in future.Thus: Delphi is no longer a langauge,
but an IDE. A smart move indeed.
By adding more "personalities" to Delphi, Borland will surely
keep the Delphites, since the company is reknowned for its great
IDE. As for me, then, at least, if I decide to write in C# I
will still be doing it in Delphi (studio). I don't think
Borland will die soon, but will eventually be swallowed
by the "almighty" Microsoft, which I think it is O.K., if it
happens. After all, .NET is supposed to be the "United Nations"
of all languages!
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> Gbenga Abimbola wrote:
> >
> >> That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
>
> Absolutely! Check back in 5 years and you'll see. It will be just as
> dead then as it is today.
>
>
> Because, after you sleep with someone,
> you HAVE to kill a fish.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! I keep seeing this in various newgroups,
lately.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any
man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Kevin Berry
> People have been predicting Delphi's death since version 1. I wont get
> worried until people STOP wondering about its demise!
Good point. As long as people are talking about Delphi (positive or
negative) it is pretty much alive. ;-)
Cheers,
Kevin.
Gbenga Abimbola
Thanks folks for all your responses. From what I have read
so far, it appears that Delphi will still be around for a long
time. Now we can close the thread.
"Gbenga Abimbola" <gabi...@columbus.gov> wrote:
>
>I posted this to database DBExpress, but was advised to send it
>here:
>===
>I don't know where to post this message. Meanwhile
>after looking at C-Sharp about a year ago, I immediately
>recognized that its architectural design is similar to Delphi in
>many ways, and that was what scared me. C-Sharp syntax is quite
>similar to the "C families: C, C++, Java," and this may draw a
>lot of Delphites (including myself) to it, since there is very
>little job opportunites for the Delphi programmers. Yet Delphi
>is sophisticated and well designed from the ground up. However,
>one of its weakness (very few in my opinion) was the lack of
>a good reporting tools at first, but the .NET version has changed
>the landscape (Rave Report, well, I never used it; I would rather
>use the popular Crystal Report).
>
>That said: Does anyone see Delphi dying a slow but surely deaths?
>I would really hate to see it go away.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Gbenga
Ingvar Nilsen
> Now we can close the thread.
Don't forget to turn off the light then, before you leave
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Ron Grove
own company in the next year or two based on Delphi tools. I have no idea
why this ng is so obsessed with the death of Delphi... Kind of pathetic
IMO.
Thank you,
Ron
Sergey M
This would explain a lot.
--
Sergey M
http://www.usysware.com/dpack/ - GExperts like VS.NET add-ins
http://www.usysware.com/blog/
Kevin Berry
> I'm new to it. Working on moving from being a network admin to creating my
> own company in the next year or two based on Delphi tools.
Good stuff. Wish you all the best with this endevour...
> I have no idea why this ng is so obsessed with the death of Delphi...
> Kind of pathetic IMO.
I think a lot of people mistake slow progress with death. ;-) Delphi is
far from dead and will be for quite a while. It is just that the market
share isn't growing fast enough for most people.
Cheers,
Kevin.
Crazy Horse's crazier little brother
news:422364b1$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> I have no idea why this ng is so obsessed with the death of Delphi...
> Kind of pathetic > IMO.
or morbid.
--
Blackbird Crow Raven, NSGW
David Clegg
> > Because, after you sleep with someone,
> > you HAVE to kill a fish.
>
> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! I keep seeing this in various newgroups,
> lately.
From what I can gather, it looks to be a reference to a Friends episode
http://www.generationterrorists.com/cgi-bin/friends.cgi?ep=218
<quote>
CHANDLER: So, when I woke up this morning, he'd stolen all the insoles
out of my shoes.
MONICA: Why?
CHANDLER: Because he thinks I slept with his ex-girlfriend and killed
his fish.
PHOEBE: Why would you kill his fish?
CHANDLER: Because sometimes, Phoebe after you sleep with someone, you
have to kill the fish.
</quote>
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dcl...@gmail.com
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Simpson
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> From what I can gather, it looks to be a reference to a Friends
> episode
>
> http://www.generationterrorists.com/cgi-bin/friends.cgi?ep=218
I know. but I only wonder why I keep seeing this quote everywhere,
lately.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.bei.t-online.de
"Police arrested two kids yesterday, one was drinking battery acid,
the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other
one off." -- Tommy Cooper
David Farrell-Garcia
> Do you have experience with both, so that you can make a qualified
> statement? :)
absolutely!
Ingvar Nilsen
> I know. but I only wonder why I keep seeing this quote everywhere,
> lately.
Because, when people pay attention to it, like you, it becomes fun to
post it for people who think it is fun to irritate others.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Ingvar Nilsen
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>
>
>>Do you have experience with both, so that you can make a qualified
>>statement? :)
>
>
> absolutely!
Shudder!!
--
Ingvar Nilsen