Reasons to Upgrade (D5 to D7)?

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The Color-Blind Chameleon

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Jul 31, 2002, 3:25:38 PM7/31/02
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My client is considering upgrading from D5 to D7 (when it's available, of
course).

I would welcome this upgrade simply because I want to work with D7, whether
it would really help us on this project or not ;-)

But I also need some practical reasons for encouraging the upgrade. Who can
help me with some arguments as to how D7 would be beneficial for our
MIDAS/sockets/Oracle 8 app?


Mike Leftwich

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Jul 31, 2002, 3:56:13 PM7/31/02
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"The Color-Blind Chameleon" <csha...@amfam.com> wrote in message
news:3d4839b1$1_1@dnews...

> But I also need some practical reasons for encouraging the upgrade. Who
can
> help me with some arguments as to how D7 would be beneficial for our
> MIDAS/sockets/Oracle 8 app?

Well, anyone who really knows anything about D7 is under NDA and can't tell
you. Everyone else is just speculating. :-)

I'd suggest you start by looking at the new features introduced in D6
(http://www.borland.com/delphi/index.html). You could then look at some of
the things that were mentioned at BorCon about D7 by reading some of the
post-conference reports, like Dr. Bob's (http://www.drbob42.com/) or Alan
Moore's
(http://www.delphizine.com/opinion/2002/07/di200207fn_o/di200207fn_o.asp),
or Jake's BorCon reports
(http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=Jake%27s%20BorCon&safe=images&ie=UTF-8
&oe=UTF-8&as_ugroup=borland.public.delphi.non-technical&lr=&hl=en).

Mike


Jim Cooper

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Jul 31, 2002, 5:00:55 PM7/31/02
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> how D7 would be beneficial for our MIDAS/sockets/Oracle 8 app?

I was at a presentation where it was said that MIDAS licences are
disappearing - I hope that's true as it would make a CDS a useful thing
:-) There will be a preview of the .net compiler, which is probably
going to be the only way to get a MIDAS/Oracle app to .net any time soon
:-)


Cheers,
Jim Cooper

____________________________________________

Jim Cooper jco...@tabdee.ltd.uk
Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk

TurboSync - Connecting Delphi with your Palm
____________________________________________

damian marquez

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Jul 31, 2002, 5:45:01 PM7/31/02
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"The Color-Blind Chameleon" <csha...@amfam.com> wrote in message
news:3d4839b1$1_1@dnews...
> My client is considering upgrading from D5 to D7 (when it's available, of
> course).
I think you cannot actually make any recommendation about that without
having a hint of what D7 will bring inside the box...

> But I also need some practical reasons for encouraging the upgrade. Who
can
> help me with some arguments as to how D7 would be beneficial for our
> MIDAS/sockets/Oracle 8 app?

I can only guess... as Jim says MIDAS licensing is probably going away,
which
I think will only apply to D7 and I can also think of .NET *and* LINUX
portability
(D6 applies too) since Kylix might let you do that when used together with
D6/D7.
Kylix 3 BTW seems to be a great and already mature product so you might
eventually
like that.

Vincent Parrett(AtoZed)

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Jul 31, 2002, 5:58:01 PM7/31/02
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"The Color-Blind Chameleon" <csha...@amfam.com> wrote in message
news:3d4839b1$1_1@dnews...
> But I also need some practical reasons for encouraging the upgrade. Who
can
> help me with some arguments as to how D7 would be beneficial for our
> MIDAS/sockets/Oracle 8 app?

Here's a good one : $0 deployment fees for Datasnap/midas with D7
Enterprise(not Pro, still need a license with that). John Kaster announced
this at Borcon in Sydney this week!

--
Regards

Vincent Parrett
AtoZed Software
Email : vincent -AT- atozedsoftware.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Automate your build process with FinalBuilder
IntraWeb - True RAD Web development -Integrates with WebSnap & WebBroker
http://www.atozedsoftware.com


Rick Carter

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Jul 31, 2002, 6:14:32 PM7/31/02
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"Vincent Parrett\(AtoZed\)" <vincent@.nospam.atozedsoftware.com> wrote:
>Here's a good one : $0 deployment fees for Datasnap/midas with D7
>Enterprise(not Pro, still need a license with that). John Kaster announced
>this at Borcon in Sydney this week!

A step in the right direction, perhaps.

But, if the ClientDataSet is to be a replacement for the BDE,
I'm still hoping for a clear "no-nonsense" statement that Delphi
Pro users can use it for single-tier applications (at least
single-user applications, if nothing else!) without paying
additional license fees.

Rick Carter
Rick....@cincww.rcc.org
Chair, Paradox/Delphi SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group

J Hall

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Jul 31, 2002, 6:45:56 PM7/31/02
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In article <3D485007...@tabdee.ltd.uk>, Jim Cooper says...

Hi,

> I was at a presentation where it was said that MIDAS licences are
> disappearing

This would be extremely good news, up to now CDS use has been a bit
dangerous...

I can thing much to top that in D7, except bundling ModelMaker with
Delphi, which would be fantastic...


J

John Kaster (Borland)

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Jul 31, 2002, 10:11:55 PM7/31/02
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damian marquez wrote:
> I can only guess... as Jim says MIDAS licensing is probably going away

Well ... MIDAS licensing has already "gone away." DataSnap licensing is
changing, to provide an unlimited deployment license along with the purchase
of the Enterprise SKU or above.

> I think will only apply to D7

No -- because it would be too confusing, we have also extended this new
license to Kylix 3 Enterprise. The requirement for D7 drove the license change
for K3, and actually it happened so recently that the K3 marketing information
doesn't even include it.

FTR: This is a great and decisive move by the RAD group product marketing and
product management staff. It would be nice if the people who persist in
exclaiming that they are clueless keep moves like this in mind.

Furthermore, I think you should stay tuned for other pleasant surprises WRT
D7.

--
John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, http://community.borland.com
$1280/$50K: Thanks to my donors!
http://homepages.borland.com/jkaster/tnt/thanks.html
Make a wish! http://qc.borland.com * Got source?
http://codecentral.borland.com
See you at BorCon 2002 Australia? http://info.borland.com.au/borcon2002/

John Kaster (Borland)

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Jul 31, 2002, 10:13:31 PM7/31/02
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Rick Carter wrote:
> But, if the ClientDataSet is to be a replacement for the BDE,
> I'm still hoping for a clear "no-nonsense" statement that Delphi
> Pro users can use it for single-tier applications (at least
> single-user applications, if nothing else!) without paying
> additional license fees.

It does now. I worked on the wording w/ Michael Swindell and John Thomas (the
Product Management staff), marketing, and legal, so hopefully it will be clear
enough, and I'll provide some example usage patterns in a new article on BDN
ASAP.

Michael Beck

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Aug 1, 2002, 12:13:27 AM8/1/02
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"John Kaster (Borland)" <jka...@borland.com> wrote in message
news:3D4898EB...@borland.com...

> FTR: This is a great and decisive move by the RAD group product marketing
and
> product management staff. It would be nice if the people who persist in
> exclaiming that they are clueless keep moves like this in mind.

As I mentioned in another message, Borland marketing for me is not only
"product marketing and product management staff", but also other
departments, and some of the top executives, who sometimes tell the
"marketing department" what to do, even if this doesn't make any sense (and
we have enough examples of that in the past <g>).

The new K3 packaging/pricing, and the Datasnap licensing (finally <g>) are
definitely good moves...

Michael

Robert Cerny

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Aug 1, 2002, 8:10:05 AM8/1/02
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Rick Carter wrote in message <3d486148$1_2@dnews>...

>
>But, if the ClientDataSet is to be a replacement for the BDE,

ClientDataset is not a replacement for BDE, but only for BDE's in memory
table.
1. Clientdataset holds all data in memory, so it's usefull for small
datasets only.
2. Clientdataset can't handle paradox/dbase/text files. Note that these are
not obsolete. They are very usefull for:
- data exchange with legacy systems (dbase)
- data caching (ie lookup tables that are too big for clientdataset)
....
For this reason I welcome Borland's decision to ship LocalBDE (or whatever
the name is).

--
Robert


Bob Swart

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Aug 1, 2002, 9:47:20 AM8/1/02
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Hi John,

>> I think will only apply to D7
>
> No -- because it would be too confusing, we have also extended this new
> license to Kylix 3 Enterprise.

Wow! That's really a good reason to go for the Enterprise versions of
Kylix 3 and Delphi 7 now. I reckon C++Builder users will have to wait
for version 7 too?

> FTR: This is a great and decisive move by the RAD group product marketing and
> product management staff.

You can say that again. Thanks very much for your hard work with regards
to this! (and everything else that you do).

> John Kaster

Groetjes,
Bob Swart (aka Dr.Bob - www.DrBob42.com)

--
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42.com) - Spirit of Delphi 1999
webmaster UK Borland User Group (BUG) & Borland UK Connections member

Anders Ohlsson (Borland)

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Aug 1, 2002, 11:11:29 AM8/1/02
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> You're welcome. However, it was the RAD team who implemented it. I was the one
> nagging. <g>

It was way more than nagging at times... I should've taken photos of the fights we had
in the corridors... <g>

--
Anders Ohlsson - Borland Developer Relations - http://community.borland.com/

Who's your best appserver? - http://info.borland.com/csiro
Brewing Java? The best tool for the job? - http://www.borland.com/jbuilder/
Delphi Rocks! - http://www.borland.com/delphi/
Delphi for Linux! - http://www.borland.com/kylix/
http://homepages.borland.com/aohlsson/disclaimer_ani.gif


John Kaster (Borland)

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Aug 1, 2002, 11:05:44 AM8/1/02
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Bob Swart wrote:
> Wow! That's really a good reason to go for the Enterprise versions of
> Kylix 3 and Delphi 7 now. I reckon C++Builder users will have to wait
> for version 7 too?

Correct -- this is a forward-only license <g>

> You can say that again. Thanks very much for your hard work with regards
> to this!

You're welcome. However, it was the RAD team who implemented it. I was the one
nagging. <g>

> (and everything else that you do).

Again, thank you.

Nick Hodges (TeamB)

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Aug 1, 2002, 11:39:44 AM8/1/02
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On Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:11:29 -0700, "Anders Ohlsson (Borland)"
<aohl...@borland.com> wrote:

>It was way more than nagging at times... I should've taken photos of the fights we had
>in the corridors... <g>

The thing I find interesting is that there is actually someone out
there arguing in favor of the license. I can't imagine what that
argument is, but I guess there is one.

<g>


Nick Hodges
Lemanix Corporation
How to ask questions of techies --
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Colin Wilson

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Aug 2, 2002, 9:54:03 AM8/2/02
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John Kaster (Borland) wrote:

> DataSnap licensing is
> changing, to provide an unlimited deployment license along with the
purchase
> of the Enterprise SKU or above.

Wow! I may even buy the enterprise version instead of Pro for the first
time in my life!

--
Colin
e-mail :co...@wilsonc.demon.co.uk
web: http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/delphi.htm

Posted with XanaNews

damian marquez

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Aug 2, 2002, 6:27:50 PM8/2/02
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"John Kaster (Borland)" <jka...@borland.com> wrote in message
news:3D4898EB...@borland.com...
> damian marquez wrote:
> > I can only guess... as Jim says MIDAS licensing is probably going away
>
> Well ... MIDAS licensing has already "gone away." DataSnap licensing is
> changing, to provide an unlimited deployment license along with the
purchase
> of the Enterprise SKU or above.

Coool!!! Best Borland move! Now this would make a nice post for the announce
group, or better, all the borland groups!

> > I think will only apply to D7
>
> No -- because it would be too confusing, we have also extended this new
> license to Kylix 3 Enterprise. The requirement for D7 drove the license
change
> for K3, and actually it happened so recently that the K3 marketing
information
> doesn't even include it.

Oh, well I was referring to Delphi versions BTW, I mean, this won't apply to
Delphi 6,
will it? :) But the fact that this kind of license exists in Kylix 3 is good
too since you
didn't wait for Kylix 4....

> FTR: This is a great and decisive move by the RAD group product marketing
and
> product management staff. It would be nice if the people who persist in
> exclaiming that they are clueless keep moves like this in mind.

Yes, it's very good to know things change for better and the requests are
being
heard.

> Furthermore, I think you should stay tuned for other pleasant surprises
WRT
> D7.

Thank you, I like this kind of surprise!

John Kaster (Borland)

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Aug 2, 2002, 9:59:17 PM8/2/02
to
"Anders Ohlsson (Borland)" wrote:
> It was way more than nagging at times... I should've taken photos of the fights we had
> in the corridors... <g>

And I should have acknowledged earlier that it wasn't just me arguing the
benefits of this change. I may have been working on it the longest, but others
were certainly contributing to the campaign.

John Kaster (Borland)

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Aug 2, 2002, 10:00:28 PM8/2/02
to
damian marquez wrote:
> Oh, well I was referring to Delphi versions BTW, I mean, this won't apply to
> Delphi 6, will it? :)

No.

> But the fact that this kind of license exists in Kylix 3 is good
> too since you didn't wait for Kylix 4....

Agreed. I was very pleased with the quick decision on that. It was less than
24 hours, IIRC.

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