Moaning: registering Delphi 7
Alan Garny
went through the registration process and it tells me that my serial number
has reached the maximum number of installs for me (!!). It's true that since
D7 has been released, I either changed PC or reinstalled my system quite a
few times, but Borland is partly responsible for it (for not having released
any new Win32 Delphi for all that time), not to mention that it's my
business if I want to change computer/reinstall my system.
I don't see why I couldn't be allowed to do that. I guess that Borland is
maybe doing this to trace pirated copies of D7, but the way I see it is that
I am the one who is penalised, for I now have to ring a number abroad to get
my copy registered. It's not a big deal, obviously, but that's the
principle.
Cheers, Alan.
Thomas Mueller
Alan Garny wrote:
> I own a copy D7 Enterprise and I recently installed it on my new computer.
> I went through the registration process and it tells me that my serial
> number has reached the maximum number of installs for me (!!).
Unfortunately there are other situations where need to register again, e.g.
it happened to me twice so far that after a Windows crash Delphi came up as
"unregistered" again. I wonder when I will get that same message as you...
Mandatory registration is a pain in the lower back for honest customers and
I don't think it helps against software piracy.
twm
John Herbster
Alan and Thomas, I think that there is a way around the maximum
installs problem. I suggest that you call or email Borland Customer
Service or post in borland.public.installs.delphi to find it. --JohnH
Alan Garny
news:4196...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> Alan and Thomas, I think that there is a way around the maximum
> installs problem. I suggest that you call or email Borland Customer
> Service or post in borland.public.installs.delphi to find it. --JohnH
Thanks John, I just posted a message to b.p.install.delphi.
Alan.
Kevin
> I own a copy D7 Enterprise and I recently installed it on my new computer. I
> went through the registration process and it tells me that my serial number
> has reached the maximum number of installs for me (!!).
One question to Borland on this topic.... What happens if they go out of
business? I've always wondered about this. However, I thought that the
worst scenario was that I'd keep on using Delphi until it could no
longer serve the purpose and then switch to a competitive dev tool over
time. However, this registration limitation feature changes things a
bit. It means that if Borland goes out of business we're at risk of
losing access to even the copy of Delphi that we own. Ouch. I also
re-install frequently. However, I've taken to just not registering it
on occasions. Eventually it bugs me enough that I do go through the
registration process.
So, Borland since you have such a limit in place I hope you at least do
your customers the courtesy of releasing a "patch" to disable this limit
if/when you go out of business. Yah, like this will happen (I mean the
"patch"). :-)
Thanks,
Kevin.
Marcus F.
Indeed. What's the point of hardware dependent licensing? Honest people will
stay honest with a simple serial number. And if someone isn't going to be,
it makes no difference whatsoever since the crack is exactly a google click
away, no more or no less difficult than obtaining a serial. I think hardware
keys just make it more challenging for hackers, if anything.
Uffe Kousgaard
news:4196...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> Hence The-Big-Question (tm): Is D2005 registration like this?
Yes, and so was D7 and D8. I can't quite remember D6? D5 didn't have it.
> Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux (EU)
Uffe Kousgaard, Roskilde (Denmark)
JFN
> "JFN" <no....@for.me> wrote in message
> news:4196...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> >
> > Hence The-Big-Question (tm): Is D2005 registration like this?
>
> Yes, and so was D7 and D8. I can't quite remember D6? D5 didn't have
> it.
>
Aaaarrrghhhh!!!
Thanks, anyway :-(
--
Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux (EU)
Marcus F.
> Alan Garny wrote:
> > I own a copy D7 Enterprise and I recently installed it on my new
computer. I
> > went through the registration process and it tells me that my serial
number
> > has reached the maximum number of installs for me (!!).
> One question to Borland on this topic.... What happens if they go out of
> business? I've always wondered about this.
Something like that happened to us with some CAD software. Fortunately,
after some time, a startup company (some of original programmers I think)
bought it out and while they haven't managed to release an update or SP so
far, they issue new hardware keys for the old version. They started charging
for it, though (originally you could get the keys for free), but it's still
better than losing 9 seats of a $7K or so software. Borland is relatively
safe, I assume (though you never know) but my general advice would be to not
buy hardware locked software, especially from unestablished vendors or those
who might be expected to go out of business. The worst case scenario is
hundereds of man years of data becoming locked in under a proprietary
format.
Ingvar Nilsen
> Since that, I promised I wouldn't purchase any product with such a
> registration scheme.
Normally larger companies don't buy expensive software / large
quantities and high number of licenses whiteout something called an
"escrow" agreement.
From the web:
--------------------
For example, one company provide software that another company sells
imbedded in their hardware. The second company (the OEM) is scared that
the first company may go out of business, so requests that the first
company put the source code for the software in escrow. Should the first
company go out of business, the second company would still be able to
sell their product. Key point: Law enforcement is constantly pushing for
key escrow where a third party holds back-door keys to all encryption
products. Law enforcement would then be able to obtain these keys with a
court order into order to decrypt messages or eavesdrop on
communications. They first propose a variant of the two-person rule in
order to prevent abuse of the system.
--------------------
We had to give large customers all our source code on CDs, encrypted,
the key kept and stored by some lawyer which was to give this key in
case we went belly up.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Martyn Ayers
And escrow isn't foolproof and of course you don't get to find out
until it's too late. E.g. the rate at which US lawyers move around
amongst firms doesn't inspire great confidence that escrowed will be
where they ought to be when you need them.
Pity users didn't revolt when Borland first introduced registration
(though an ex-Borlander told me that registration is nowhere near as
bad as an activation system that was tested (prior to D6's release).
Cheers, Martyn
Martyn Ayers
Ingvar Nilsen
> And escrow isn't foolproof
True.
> and of course you don't get to find out until it's too late.
True to some extent. In our case an independent third party was engaged
overlooking that the code compiled, as a matter of fact I think we also
had to include a complete version of Delphi Enterprise, but I was not
involved in the details and don't remember exactly how it was done.
In any case the customer was well aware of what they did, and definitely
had software competence.
> Pity users didn't revolt when Borland first introduced registration
I am not sure about this, I believe there was some noise, at least
here :)
--
Ingvar Nilsen
![Nick Hodges [TeamB]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWsTjWTtYgQa_lIkPPY_9f1apuJLHGnOXqRfdvL-25iS-D7ruXW=s40-c)
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> ah, like this will happen (I mean the "patch"). :-)
Actually, I believe Borland has exactly such a scheme sitting on the
shelf for such an unlikely event.
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick
Andy Neillans [ABCC Computers]
> maybe doing this to trace pirated copies of D7, but the way I see it is
> that I am the one who is penalised, for I now have to ring a number abroad
> to get my copy registered. It's not a big deal, obviously, but that's the
> principle.
Registration data (and some other IDE info) is saved in a directory called
.Borland in your user directory - under windows xp this is in c:\Documents
and Settings\{Username}
I keep a backup of this on a floppy disk (and DAT Tape) in case I need to
reinstall; after installation, copy the directory back and you are
registered :)
Personally I don't mind the product activation - as long as it doesn't get
TOO intrusive.
(That tip is originally courtesy of the .install group ;)).
Andy
Ivo Bauer
> I own a copy D7 Enterprise and I recently installed it on my new computer. I
> went through the registration process and it tells me that my serial number
> has reached the maximum number of installs for me (!!).
Quite the same thing happened to me as well some time ago, with D7 Pro
though. I have been advised by a local Borland reseller to contact the
registration support person at the following address:
emea-registration AT borland DOT com
I've got the response very quickly and was provided with 2 additional
registration attempts. Yes, only two. So I registered my D7 Pro,
thereby wasting one attempt of my two and immediately made the backup
of the registration info for the future reuse (as suggested by Andy).
Since then I reinstalled my system 2 or 3 times with no need to
request additional registration attempts from Borland. Personally, I
find this registration system very annoying.
Hope this helps.
--
Ivo Bauer
Software Developer
OZM Research, s.r.o.
http://www.ozm.cz/
Turn your Delphi application into Modbus client/server with ModLink!
http://www.ozm.cz/ivobauer/modlink/
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
Call customer support. Every time I've needed to extend licenses (both D6 and
D7) it has taken less than 5 minutes to get it done.
>
> Alan.
--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
(Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You)
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build
a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act
alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for
insects. (RAH)
Ingvar Nilsen
> I'd love to get an open letter together to encourage Borland, and
> firms like them, to *stop* treating their loyal and legal customers
> as if they're 'pirates in waiting'. How about it guys?
Only those who are real pirates would feel like this IMO.
There have been enough posts and advices about how to solve any issue
regarding this by now, really don't see any problem at all.
I have several machines, have installed Delphi several times, not to
mention MS OSes and Office etc. they have to be registered? Yes.
Activated? Yes. Have never had much trouble.
I will not put my name on your letter :-)
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Charles McAllister
message news:4196...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Registration data (and some other IDE info) is saved in a directory
called
> .Borland in your user directory - under windows xp this is in
c:\Documents
> and Settings\{Username}
>
as long as i just copy that .Borland folder to the current use'rs profile
directory?
Charles
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
On that machine only.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
"Nature abhors the vacuum tube." - J.R. Pierce, Bell Labs engineer who
coined the term 'transistor'
Kevin
> Derek Davidson wrote:
> > I'd love to get an open letter together to encourage Borland, and
> > firms like them, to *stop* treating their loyal and legal customers
> > as if they're 'pirates in waiting'. How about it guys?
>
> Only those who are real pirates would feel like this IMO.
Thanks for calling me a pirate. :-(
Personally, I dislike this kind of registration mechanism. If you buy a
CD-ROM it should not be necessary to register online. If you download
an evaluation copy off the web and have to activate that it's a
different story- I have no problem with that because there's no other
way to do it.
"DRM" type mechanisms have directly affected me 4 times:
* When I bought a DVD player it wouldn't work with my set up. I had to
buy a receiver etc. before the whole thing would work properly. Why?
Because the damn macrovision doesn't allow you to connect it through a
video machine. *ARGGH* And it's not like I'm going to be running a
DVD->Video pirate factory from home. And look what the pirates are busy
doing- they can still copy DVDs. So I'm inconvenienced, a law-abiding
citizen.
* When I decided to upgrade my hard drive from 80GB to 160GB my Windows
XP died during a reboot (I didn't have the config 100% when I attached
the 80GB as a secondary drive). This caused it to prevent me from
activating online and I had to call Microsoft and go through a laborious
process to re-activate and had to swear on the bible that I only had it
installed on one machine. (just kidding, but it had that kind of
we're-interrogating-you feel to it)
* One of my kids killed a $50 Playstation 2 game. The DVD disc was
damaged so it wouldn't play anymore. So I HAD TO FORK OUT $50 to buy
the same game again. Why? Because I can't make backups because of
their copy protection mechanisms.
* The songs I buy on iTunes can't be used on my MP101 player because it
supports MP3s only. So now I have to burn a CD, rip the MP3 and then
place it on the computer's hard drive so that I can access it from the
MP101. OK, I could've bought an AirTunes device but then I wouldn't
have been able to play the Internet radio stations I wanted to- so I'd
have to buy two media receivers instead of one. That's the kind of
things that DRM does.... This one is a fairly minor inconvenience but
it just bugs me that I have to spend more time administering it now.
I've had enough of this DRM junk.
Fortunately, Borland has not gone down the path where you can't even
make a backup copy of the software. Thank God for that! And to be
fair, I think Borland's scheme seems to be alright, for now. I just
hope they don't advance it more. It's intrusive enough already.
Cheers,
Kevin.
TObject
"Andy Neillans [ABCC Computers]" <an...@abcc-computers.co.uk> wrote in message news:4196...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> .Borland in your user directory - under windows xp this is in c:\Documents
> and Settings\{Username}
> I keep a backup of this on a floppy disk (and DAT Tape) in case I need to
> reinstall; after installation, copy the directory back and you are
> registered :)
> Personally I don't mind the product activation - as long as it doesn't get
> TOO intrusive.
This will help if your hard drive crashes. But it won't work if your motherboard dies.
Alan Garny
news:41969170...@mindspring.com...
> Alan Garny wrote:
>> "John Herbster" <herb-sci1_AT_sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:4196...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>> >
>> > Alan and Thomas, I think that there is a way around the maximum
>> > installs problem. I suggest that you call or email Borland Customer
>> > Service or post in borland.public.installs.delphi to find it. --JohnH
>>
>> Thanks John, I just posted a message to b.p.install.delphi.
>
> Call customer support. Every time I've needed to extend licenses (both
> D6 and
> D7) it has taken less than 5 minutes to get it done.
I am sure it does and it's not the point. It's just a question of principle.
It sounds to me like a dishonest person's life is easier than that of a
honest person when it comes to using Borland products. Kind of silly, if you
ask me.
Alan.
Marcus F.
> Derek Davidson wrote:
> > I'd love to get an open letter together to encourage Borland, and
> > firms like them, to *stop* treating their loyal and legal customers
> > as if they're 'pirates in waiting'. How about it guys?
> Only those who are real pirates would feel like this IMO.
Besides being libelous, what you said doesn't make sense. One can find every
crack and patch that eliminates any protection scheme on the internet by a
simple google search in about 10 seconds. How is inconveniencing law abiding
customers make it harder for pirates? Maybe it takes a hacker 1 hour instead
of 5 minutes if you make the protection scheme as complicated and intrusive
as possible. But the end result is, after that delay of whopping 55 minutes,
everything is out there anyway and makes not one iota of difference to the
pirate who downloads it whether he enters a serial number or runs a patch to
bypass registration.
Mike Margerum
supports MP3s only. So now I have to burn a CD, rip the MP3 and then
Check out videolan. it will let you pull drm of your iTunes files.
Kevin
I am aware of a few solutions to convert from AAC to MP3. However, my
point was that the DRM is specifically designed to make it harder for
you to do that. All I want to do is play the music I purchased on my
stereo. I actually use iTunes to do that: burn a CD, rip it from the CD
in MP3 format. A two step process that takes time because burning CDs
takes time. Ripping straight from AAC to MP3 would be great. Or better
yet: just sell the songs in MP3 format to begin with. Instead the
industry is so paranoid that they make the average consumer jump through
hoops but don't stop the pirates. What's the point?? Why ever bother...
Anyway, I didn't post this to discuss DRM in the music industry. It is
now heading into off-topic land. In the context of Delphi use what
you're almost suggesting is to download a crack off a warez site and run
that so that I don't have to register Delphi. I'm dead against that
myself. I'm talking about fair use of a product as it is.
Cheers,
Kevin.
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> I am sure it does and it's not the point. It's just a question of
> principle. It sounds to me like a dishonest person's life is easier
> than that of a honest person when it comes to using Borland products.
> Kind of silly, if you ask me.
I think it's a matter of finding the right balance. Back when Borland first
indicated they were going to introduce registration mechanisms, I can assure
you many (I think most) of us TeamB members, and many others, raised hell.
We were extremely worried they would screw it up, making it intolerable for
everyone, and we vented very heavily to Borland about the evil road they
were going down. Borland was made acutely aware of how sensitive this issue
was and, IMO, worked very hard to find a solution that gave them worthwhile
benefts while not excessively inconveniencing customers. I really think the
balance they've struck is very reasonable and does not *in anyway whatsover*
treat customers as criminals or make any such implication. The current
scheme can hardly be considered oppressive, it asks for minimal info, you
basically only need to hit the 'next' button a few times and you're done.
Borland is well aware that this registration scheme, or even a much more
"oppressive" scheme, would not stop hardcore pirates from cracking the
product. For actual piracy, such a registration scheme can only somewhat
stem the "casual" pirate, and stronger schemes affect this little while
having a strong negative effect on customers.
Like locking your door when you leave the house, it protects you against
most, but a determined thief will still get in. Adding more locks has
relatively little effect on determined crooks but incoveniences the
occupants greatly. However I would not advocate that people leave their
houses unlocked, would you?
Another side of the registration coin that many forget (or try to dismiss
for some reason) is that many customers *welcome it as a tool* that helps
them maintain license compliance. Ultimately it is up to a company to
control access to the software it uses, but if that software can inform them
of issues then that job becomes that much easier.
In the end, the current scheme does several things:
- reduces some degree of casual piracy and inadvertent misuse
- gives Borland a means to get some information from their users that they
can use as input to market research. Even if you provide minimal info, it
still at least helps them get an idea of numbers.
- another marketing aspect - helps get people aware of various Borland web
sites like BDN
- helps those, typically in corporations needing many licenses, to manage
licensing better
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
"The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to
enjoy yourself and live." - Ayn Rand
David Smith
>
> stereo. I actually use iTunes to do that: burn a CD, rip it from the CD
> in MP3 format. A two step process that takes time because burning CDs
You're losing audio quality every time you encode your music. I suggest
you sell your mp3 player and buy an iPod. That's "native" for iTunes. Or
start using Napster or MSN Music (but of course they are awful compared
to iTunes).
> takes time. Ripping straight from AAC to MP3 would be great. Or better
> yet: just sell the songs in MP3 format to begin with .Insteadthe
Eh, AAC is highly more advanced audio coding technology than MP3, so
that would not be a good thing (e.g. 128 kbps AAC = 160 kbps MP3). Files
would be larger and I'm already running out of disc space with AAC.
--
David S.
Delphi programming : http://www.borland.com/delphi_net/
Kevin
>> stereo. I actually use iTunes to do that: burn a CD, rip it from the
>> CD in MP3 format. A two step process that takes time because burning CDs
>
> You're losing audio quality every time you encode your music.
I've never noticed. :-) MP3 is good enough for me.
> I suggest
> you sell your mp3 player and buy an iPod.
The MP101 is actually a wireless media receiver. With it I stream MP3s
to the MP101 over 802.11b. That has certain advantages (remote, huge
capacity!) over the iPod (and obviously also some negatives, but the way
I use it the MP101 makes more sense). Plus, an iPod is just too damn
expensive. I can't justify $299 for an iPod. I have other things more
important to spend money on, like Delphi Pro. :-)
> That's "native" for iTunes. Or
> start using Napster or MSN Music (but of course they are awful compared
> to iTunes).
Neither Napster not MSN Music product MP3s. Same problem. I don't want
to waste money buying a more expensive media receiver just to support WMA.
>> takes time. Ripping straight from AAC to MP3 would be great. Or
>> better yet: just sell the songs in MP3 format to begin with
>> .Insteadthe
>
> Eh, AAC is highly more advanced audio coding technology than MP3, so
> that would not be a good thing (e.g. 128 kbps AAC = 160 kbps MP3). Files
> would be larger and I'm already running out of disc space with AAC.
mmmmm.... do you honestly think that is their reason for not selling
MP3s. ;-)
Cheers,
Kevin.
Kevin
> In the end, the current scheme does several things:
> - reduces some degree of casual piracy and inadvertent misuse
> - gives Borland a means to get some information from their users that they
> can use as input to market research. Even if you provide minimal info, it
> still at least helps them get an idea of numbers.
> - another marketing aspect - helps get people aware of various Borland web
> sites like BDN
> - helps those, typically in corporations needing many licenses, to manage
> licensing better
That sounds fine. However, this announcement still worries me:
http://www.macrovision.com/company/news/press/newsdetail.jsp?id=66a61145d8ba251c90ef7b6a9637633c
Nothing seems to have come to fruition on this though. I _REALLY_ hope
that Delphi 2005 won't have this. I like to be able to make backup
copies of the software I buy.
Do you know anything about this?
Cheers,
Kevin.
Alan Garny
news:41979f0f$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Alan Garny wrote:
>> I am sure it does and it's not the point. It's just a question of
>> principle. It sounds to me like a dishonest person's life is easier
>> than that of a honest person when it comes to using Borland products.
>> Kind of silly, if you ask me.
> I think it's a matter of finding the right balance. Back when Borland
> first indicated they were going to introduce registration mechanisms, I
> can assure you many (I think most) of us TeamB members, and many others,
> raised hell. We were extremely worried they would screw it up, making it
> intolerable for everyone, and we vented very heavily to Borland about the
> evil road they were going down. Borland was made acutely aware of how
> sensitive this issue was and, IMO, worked very hard to find a solution
> that gave them worthwhile benefts while not excessively inconveniencing
> customers. I really think the balance they've struck is very reasonable
> and does not *in anyway whatsover* treat customers as criminals or make
> any such implication. The current scheme can hardly be considered
> oppressive, it asks for minimal info, you basically only need to hit the
> 'next' button a few times and you're done.
Oh, but that, I am completely happy with. What I don't like to enter all the
information and then be told that I have reached the maximum number of
installs. *That*, I find very "annoying".
Alan.
Derek Davidson
You make an excellent case for Borland's registration scheme but I do
have one point:
> The current
> scheme can hardly be considered oppressive, it asks for minimal info,
> you basically only need to hit the 'next' button a few times and
> you're done.
Maybe not oppressive but it does have one element that really irritates
me: It *requires* you to have, or to get, one of those Borland account
thingies. Why? Even MS separate licensing from registration and it's
not as if Borland use those accounts for anything useful for the
customer (for example: I've never received notifications of new
products and/or updates. Ever).
Why do they insist on that?
Finally, I have had the misfortune of needing to re-register my copy of
Delphi at the weekend and got the dreaded error related to it having
been registered too many times. Now of course, I could hardly call my
Borland office - they're not open until Monday. And so, I have a
product rendered useless to me because of some anti-theft device.
--
Derek Davidson
http://www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
Ingvar Nilsen
> That sounds fine. However, this announcement still worries me:
>
>
--------
A key feature of SAFEDISC HD is that it does not require the CD-ROM in
the drive every time the application is launched. The publisher can
specify the time duration for periodic re-authentication of the original
CD-ROM.
--------
Fantastic.
If it ever happens that an application requires a CD when I am out
traveling, a CD I have locked up in a safe place at home, it is over
and out with that product for me.
I commute a lot, and have no intention to carry with me CDs that cost a
fortune AND cannot be backed up.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
David Smith
> David Smith wrote:
>
> The MP101 is actually a wireless media receiver. With it I stream MP3s
> to the MP101 over 802.11b. That has certain advantages (remote, huge
Ok. Apple also has wireless media system called AirPort Express. It's
very nice.
> expensive. I can't justify $299 for an iPod. I have other things more
iPod mini is only $249, but of course it's only 4GB. But then again,
it's just *so* cool...
> important to spend money on, like Delphi Pro. :-)
Ok. A very good reason :-)
>> Eh, AAC is highly more advanced audio coding technology than MP3, so
>> that would not be a good thing (e.g. 128 kbps AAC = 160 kbps MP3).
>> Files would be larger and I'm already running out of disc space with AAC.
>
> mmmmm.... do you honestly think that is their reason for not selling
> MP3s. ;-)
No, but they also chose AAC because it's simply better. This way they
could make the files smaller to store and download. Music library of
over a million songs takes an awful lot of disc space.
Marcus F.
> > I am sure it does and it's not the point. It's just a question of
> > principle. It sounds to me like a dishonest person's life is easier
> > than that of a honest person when it comes to using Borland products.
> > Kind of silly, if you ask me.
> Borland is well aware that this registration scheme, or even a much more
> "oppressive" scheme, would not stop hardcore pirates from cracking the
> product. For actual piracy, such a registration scheme can only somewhat
> stem the "casual" pirate, and stronger schemes affect this little while
> having a strong negative effect on customers.
>
> Like locking your door when you leave the house, it protects you against
> most, but a determined thief will still get in. Adding more locks has
> relatively little effect on determined crooks but incoveniences the
> occupants greatly. However I would not advocate that people leave their
> houses unlocked, would you?
OK, I hear this "stopping casual pirates" and "locking your house" arguments
a lot but there is a major flaw: The pirates and the crackers are different
people, and pirates have free access to the cracker's expertise! I would
understand if each pirate had to crack the licensing scheme himself. *Only
then* the casual (or inept) ones would not be able to steal. But as it is,
all it takes is *one* dedicated cracker to crack the scheme and publish it
on the internet for it to spread as wildfire. Then, even the most casual and
inept pirate can download and use it. Hence, it matters not if the
protection scheme is basic or advanced - it just makes the cracker's job
harder (and they seem to like that, by all accounts), not the pirate's.
The proper house analogy would be if there were a group of locksmiths who
were dedicated to making keys for every new lock that came into the market
and actually placed the proper key in the mailboxes of each house. It
probably is no harder to find a crack for any imaginable software on the
internet than walking to the person's mailbox and getting the key. In that
case, it doesn't matter how state of the art the lock is, or if there's a
lock at all. All the casual trespasser needs is about 10 seconds, to know is
where to get the key from and to remember to turn it clockwise.
Stopping casual pirates is an antiquated notion that is a leftover from the
good old sneakernet days. Even then, it didn't stop mass piracy in places
like Russia and China and most of the third world where the role of the
internet was being fulfilled by street vendors.
Mike Margerum
and the integration with iTunes is top notch. This is the first apple
product i've actually wanted since the apple II+
LOL
Mike Margerum
I think it will backfire big time down the road.
I wasn't being argumentative, I was just giving you a solution to you
iTunes problem since I had the same problem. You'll get better quality
converting an acc to an mp3 using videolann.
Jan Mitrovics
> Stopping casual pirates is an antiquated notion that is a leftover
> from the good old sneakernet days. Even then, it didn't stop mass
> piracy in places like Russia and China and most of the third world
> where the role of the internet was being fulfilled by street vendors.
While I share your basic analysis of the situation, there is another
thing that need to be kept in mind: legislation.
As far as I understand the situation according to DMCA, legislation
requires a certain amount of copy protection. If there is no copy
protection it is anticipated, that the work may legitimately (or at
least without punishment) be copied.
I would prefer a different way of handling this also by legislation,
but I think thats the way things have been pushed during the past years.
Jan
Leroy Casterline
>I keep a backup of this on a floppy disk (and DAT Tape) in case I need to
>reinstall; after installation, copy the directory back and you are
>registered :)
I don't if this applies to D7, but with BCB6 it didn't help. After
restoring a backup image of my C: drive, I was surprised to find that I
had to re-register.
Leroy Casterline
>activating online and I had to call Microsoft and go through a laborious
>process to re-activate and had to swear on the bible that I only had it
I've had to do this twice now for XP Pro. The first time, I was
connected to a live operator. In the middle of the process I started
laughing 'cause she was reading so many digits back to me. I don't think
she appreciated that (and I guess I wouldn't either if my job were to
read long groups of digits over the phone). The latest time it was
automated. In both cases it was a PITA.
Will DeWitt Jr.
> I own a copy D7 Enterprise and I recently installed it on my new
> computer. I went through the registration process and it tells me
> that my serial number has reached the maximum number of installs for
> me (!!).
(FTR: I've ran into the same problem you're having and had it resolved
very quickly by a call to Borland).
I'm not a big fan of these "keeping honest people honest" campaigns.
Activation and forced registration systems /don't/ stop the real
criminals but only really penalize legitimate customers. Besides, it
also creates an issue over the potential for Borland ever going out of
business-- how would one activate then?
Anyways.. here's hoping sanity returns someday, but I'm not holding my
breath.
Will
--
Want a 64-bit Delphi compiler for AMD64 / IA-32e? Vote here--
Lauchlan M
arguments
> a lot but there is a major flaw:
I think by 'casual pirates' he means something like someone buys Delphi,
then while he's using it a mate at work says 'hey, that looks interesting',
so the purchaser says 'heres the CD, try it our for a bit', and either
deliberately or accidently, the whole office ends up running it on the one
licence (and maybe everyone installs it at home as well).
Product activation helps prevent this 'casual' 'piracy'.
Lauchlan M
Kevin
> Ok. Apple also has wireless media system called AirPort Express. It's
> very nice.
Yip. I looked at it. Netgear MP101 cost $140 - a little bit more than
the AirPort Express ($129). I do really like the AirPort Express (but
you need to buy the $59.95 remote separate which makes it a bit more
expensive).
However, the MP101 is more "open". It supports streaming MP3 directly
from the web ("Internet Radio") and it handles MP3 streaming from the
PC. The remote control for the MP101 allows you to browse through your
entire MP3 collection on your PC by Genre, by Track, by Artist, by
Album... That works quite well (you can "type" in characters to search
as well). You can also set up playlists. Because of the MP101 being
open (i.e. supporting MP3) I've been able to write a little Delphi app
that allowed me TiVo-like capability on an Internet Radio station.
Basically, the MP101 software picks up 30 minute snapshots of recorded
radio and builds a playlist automatically. I'm sure there may be better
solutions to this but this was pretty cheap when looking at the rest of
the competition. My requirement was that I wanted something that
supported MP3 specifically, not WMA and not AAC. No matter what anyone
says about the superiority of WMA and AAC, MP3 is such a universal
standard now that it is so easy to get source code to manipulate the
files, free apps to edit the MP3 audio files etc. MP3 support was
required, other formats would have been a bonus though.
> iPod mini is only $249, but of course it's only 4GB. But then again,
> it's just *so* cool...
IT IS COOL!! I do want one. But $249 is a bit much for 4GB. $299 for
20GB is better. Personally, I'd step up to the iPod if I was going to
buy one of these devices.
Cheers,
Kevin.
Kevin
Thanks! I actually wondered if my reply was a bit harsh. Sorry if it was.
Cheers,
Kevin.
Kevin
> Anyways.. here's hoping sanity returns someday, but I'm not holding my
> breath.
It won't be too long before we're all using Open-Source software.
Software activation won't make any sense then. ;-)
BTW, I'm not sure I like the idea of an open-source world 100%. After
all, I make money from software development. However, it does have its
benefits.......
Cheers,
Kevin.
Kevin
> Finally, I have had the misfortune of needing to re-register my copy of
> Delphi at the weekend and got the dreaded error related to it having
> been registered too many times. Now of course, I could hardly call my
> Borland office - they're not open until Monday. And so, I have a
> product rendered useless to me because of some anti-theft device.
And this is exactly why I dislike this kind of mechanism _SO_ much. I
do a _LOT_ of development on the weekend with Delphi. In fact, that's
when I'm most productive. During the week I don't develop with Delphi
that much. So this inconveniences me a whole lot! Once again a mark
against Borland for the hobby/shareware developer.
Cheers,
Kevin.
Kevin
> Fantastic.
> If it ever happens that an application requires a CD when I am out
> traveling, a CD I have locked up in a safe place at home, it is over
> and out with that product for me.
> I commute a lot, and have no intention to carry with me CDs that cost a
> fortune AND cannot be backed up.
Exactly! I really really hope Borland decided this was totally insane
and backed it out.
Cheers,
Kevin.
Kevin
> As far as I understand the situation according to DMCA, legislation
> requires a certain amount of copy protection. If there is no copy
> protection it is anticipated, that the work may legitimately (or at
> least without punishment) be copied.
Unreal. Thanks for the info... It's amazing how stupid laws can be.
> I would prefer a different way of handling this also by legislation,
> but I think thats the way things have been pushed during the past years.
Let's hope they do change this. Companies shouldn't feel like they have
to put copy protection in place just to be satisfy legal requirements
and at the same time inconveniencing their customers.... OMG, I just
can't believe how ridiculous this all is!
Cheers,
Kevin.
Jan Mitrovics
> Derek Davidson wrote:
> > Finally, I have had the misfortune of needing to re-register my
> > copy of Delphi at the weekend and got the dreaded error related to
> > it having been registered too many times. Now of course, I could
> > hardly call my Borland office - they're not open until Monday. And
> > so, I have a product rendered useless to me because of some
> > anti-theft device.
>
> And this is exactly why I dislike this kind of mechanism SO much. I
> do a LOT of development on the weekend with Delphi. In fact, that's
> when I'm most productive. During the week I don't develop with
> Delphi that much. So this inconveniences me a whole lot! Once again
> a mark against Borland for the hobby/shareware developer.
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin.
I don't understand your problem here.
1) AFAIK at least Delphi 7 runs fine without registration.
2) You have a period of 30 days or so before registering the product is
mandatory.
On the other hand only being able to install it 10 times and then
having to call every second time is IMHO too restrictive.
As developers we tend to have a need of installing it more often than
that. Also you are providing all your details and need to use your
Borland Online Account.
In my view this limit should not be there at all. Borland can monitor
the registrations themselves and take actions (like calling or sending
email) when they have the notion of abuse. But it should not be the
customers who needs to prove by default that they are not abusing the
license. What kind of relationship is this!
Jan
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> Oh, but that, I am completely happy with. What I don't like to enter
> all the information and then be told that I have reached the maximum
> number of installs. *That*, I find very "annoying".
When it happens, I agree it is annoying, and as Derek pointed out, if it
stops you from using your tools at a time when you have no way to immeditely
contact Borland, it is much more than just annoying.
The latter case needs to have some workaround, but the former case - well,
if Borland sees the same serial number being registered many times, how are
they supposed to know it is you repeating your legitimate install vs. copies
being installed elsewhere? If you say you should be able to reregister
unlimited times, then you're saying there should be no registration at all
since it would amount to the same result. Given that *some* form of
registration is reasonable, how many reregisters should be allowed before a
red flag should go up? How many people do you think need to re-install that
often? Again, IMO, the current level is reasonable.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
SpaceShip$10M; GovernmentZero
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> Maybe not oppressive but it does have one element that really
> irritates me: It *requires* you to have, or to get, one of those
> Borland account thingies. Why? Even MS separate licensing from
> registration and it's not as if Borland use those accounts for
> anything useful for the customer (for example: I've never received
> notifications of new products and/or updates. Ever).
>
> Why do they insist on that?
What's the harm? If you ever visit Borland's BDN, it knows you, it sets you
up so you can get into the registered updates page, and, who knows, maybe
Borland *will* send you something sometime (but then they'll get accused of
spaming by some of course).
> Finally, I have had the misfortune of needing to re-register my copy
> of Delphi at the weekend and got the dreaded error related to it
> having been registered too many times. Now of course, I could hardly
> call my Borland office - they're not open until Monday. And so, I
> have a product rendered useless to me because of some anti-theft
> device.
Wherever this kind of thing happens, I most definitely agree there needs to
be someway to improve it - one should not be left helpless without their
tools.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
"Democracy, without the guarantee of liberty, is merely a method of
selecting tyrants." - Alan Nitikman
Bob
> I own a copy D7 Enterprise and I recently installed it on my new
> computer. I went through the registration process and it tells me
> that my serial number has reached the maximum number of installs for
> me (!!). It's true that since D7 has been released, I either changed
> PC or reinstalled my system quite a few times, but Borland is partly
> responsible for it (for not having released any new Win32 Delphi for
> all that time), not to mention that it's my business if I want to
> change computer/reinstall my system.
>
> I don't see why I couldn't be allowed to do that. I guess that
> Borland is maybe doing this to trace pirated copies of D7, but the
> way I see it is that I am the one who is penalised, for I now have to
> ring a number abroad to get my copy registered. It's not a big deal,
> obviously, but that's the principle.
>
> Cheers, Alan.
It sure would be a pain if you had to reregister late at night or on
the weekend!! DAMHIK
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> That sounds fine. However, this announcement still worries me:
>
> http://www.macrovision.com/company/news/press/newsdetail.jsp?id=66a61145d8ba251c90ef7b6a9637633c
>
First, it's fair to note that announcement is well over 3 1/2 years old. I'd
forgotten about that but do recall seeing it at the time.
While I have no knowledge of whether they still have this actively licensed,
and thus whether they could still use this at some point, to the best of my
knowledge, what is currently in Delphi and other tools is not this and what
they have currently was chosen after a great deal of consideration.
For the record, if I had to re-install the Delphi CD at random intervals, I
too would be *extremely* angry, I seriously hate software that does this.
But I'm reasonably confident this will not happen.
Ingvar Nilsen
> In my view this limit should not be there at all. Borland can monitor
> the registrations themselves and take actions (like calling or
> sending email) when they have the notion of abuse.
Seems like a better solution!
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Ingvar Nilsen
> Given that *some* form of registration is reasonable, how many
> reregisters should be allowed before a red flag should go up? How
> many people do you think need to re-install that often? Again, IMO,
> the current level is reasonable.
See Jan Mitrovic's post!
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> I think by 'casual pirates' he means something like someone buys
> Delphi, then while he's using it a mate at work says 'hey, that looks
> interesting', so the purchaser says 'heres the CD, try it our for a
> bit', and either deliberately or accidently, the whole office ends up
> running it on the one licence (and maybe everyone installs it at home
> as well).
That's mostly what I was considering, whether between work colleagues or
social friends. For the most part I agree with Marcus, however there are
also some who, while they might not actively pursue pirated software by
visiting warez sites, if something is literally lying open, or is an easy
copy on a machine they personally have access to, then they will take
advantage of that.
Again the analogy, there are some that would not try to break a lock, but
they might try the door and, if open, ...
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
SpaceShipThree; GovernmentZero
Ingvar Nilsen
> For the record, if I had to re-install the Delphi CD at random
> intervals, I too would be *extremely* angry, I seriously hate
> software that does this. But I'm reasonably confident this will not
> happen.
Sounds good. BTW, I didn't realize it was that old, the announcement.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Robert Love
>me: It *requires* you to have, or to get, one of those Borland account
>thingies. Why? Even MS separate licensing from registration and it's
>not as if Borland use those accounts for anything useful for the
>customer (for example: I've never received notifications of new
>products and/or updates. Ever).
But you are not required to activate the product Immediately, you can
run unregistered for a period of Time. So if this does occur, you
are not prevented from working. You just had to run unregistered
until Monday.
I initially fought off all activation, now it is just a fact of life,
most software requires you to activate it. Since I am legal customer
it does not hurt me at all, just a bit of a time burden.
--
Robert Love - rober...@gmail.com
My Blog: http://peakxml.com
SLC Utah Delphi Users Group: http://www.slcdug.org
Place your Delphi Blog Here (For Free!): http://blogs.slcdug.org
Will DeWitt Jr.
> It won't be too long before we're all using Open-Source software.
> Software activation won't make any sense then. ;-)
Well, and this is unfortunate, but the software industry appears to be
trying to move towards "software as a service". Instead of owning your
software you lease/rent/subscribe to it for fixed durations.
Small costs up front, perhaps, but more money over the long run
(especially if you want to use it for decades in a legacy system). And
more chance for a company to go out of business and leave subscribers
hanging with nothing they can do.
But open source is certainly going to be a compelling alternative
should big companies like Microsoft try to push subscription down the
worlds throat.
Will DeWitt Jr.
> I initially fought off all activation, now it is just a fact of life,
> most software requires you to activate it. Since I am legal customer
> it does not hurt me at all, just a bit of a time burden.
The point is you shouldn't face the burden to begin with. The whole
notion of "keeping honest people honest" is ridiculous. Borland loses
far more in sales to out and out piracy (people trading it on IRC, P2P
or elsewhere) than they'll ever lose to someone casually installing it.
As other(s) have said, have the activation software contact a server
and inform Borland of the installation that was performed, but don't
actually require "activation", just keep track of people who are using
their serial number more often than is acceptable and contact the
person to sort out what's going on.
I know it'll never happen, but what *I* think should happen is
legislation should be passed to make this "mandatory activation"
illegal (at least in the United States). The consumer should have the
right to know that if they buy software (be it at a brick and mortar
store or online) that they can *use* it without jumping through
additional hoops. Treating the customer like a criminal is never a
good choice.
Ingvar Nilsen
> The point is you shouldn't face the burden to begin with. The whole
> notion of "keeping honest people honest" is ridiculous.
Are you working in a large dept.? In a software house. Or are you a
single developer, having your own business?
From what you write, it seems like the latter.
Borland has to have a system suited for the real world, not for backyard
shops. Selling the software with no protection at all is no good.
The built in protection is just enough to ensure correct licensing in
serious software houses.
> Treating the customer like a criminal is never a good choice.
I bet your car has no keys, just a big red button on the dash board,
labeled "START" <g>
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Will DeWitt Jr.
> From what you write, it seems like the latter.
That has nothing to do with anything.
> Borland has to have a system suited for the real world, not for
> backyard shops. Selling the software with no protection at all is no
> good. The built in protection is just enough to ensure correct
> licensing in serious software houses.
The only protection that is even remotely necessary is the entry of a
serial number. Anything beyond that is treating your paying customers
like criminals. Furthermore it does *nothing* to stop, deter, or slow,
/real/ piracy.
> I bet your car has no keys, just a big red button on the dash board,
> labeled "START" <g>
Nice analogy, too bad it's also irrelevant. Borland sells their
software online as well as in retail stores and *requires* serial
numbers (a "key") to install. Activation, OTOH, is akin to requiring
car owners to call Ford/GMC/whomever to ask for permission to even
*start* your own car-- /after/ it's been paid for.
It would really suck if you had someplace you needed to be, but you had
to wait until the next weekday to get permission to drive.
Ingvar Nilsen
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>> From what you write, it seems like the latter.
> That has nothing to do with anything.
Yes. And No. It is none of my business, of course, I just made
assumptions based on what you wrote.
> The only protection that is even remotely necessary is the entry of a
> serial number. Anything beyond that is treating your paying
> customers like criminals.
A serial number is most likely not enough.
It can be reused.
> Furthermore it does *nothing* to stop, deter, or slow, /real/ piracy.
Right. And that is, as I tried to say, not the goal at all.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Kevin
> First, it's fair to note that announcement is well over 3 1/2 years old. I'd
> forgotten about that but do recall seeing it at the time.
I know the announcement is a bit old. However, it's one of those things
that sticks in one's mind. I kept wondering when Borland would pull
this rabbit out of the hat. Fortunately, this particular rabbit seems
to have been retired. :-) One hopes...
Cheers,
Kevin.
Marcus F.
> I bet your car has no keys, just a big red button on the dash board,
> labeled "START" <g>
Car keys are for the owner's protection and under owner's control and as the
owner, you can replace the key with a red button if you so wish and while it
might void your warranty it wouldn't make you a criminal, as it does
modifying software. Would you be OK with having to "activate" your car from
the manufacturer each time you have an oil change or have some other work
done on it?
Jan Mitrovics
> however
> there are also some who, while they might not actively pursue pirated
> software by visiting warez sites, if something is literally lying
> open, or is an easy copy on a machine they personally have access to,
> then they will take advantage of that.
The current registration scheme does protect this well enough. In order
to abuse the software they need
a) CD and Serial number (which of course is combined)
b) the account of the original licensee
as the account will probably not "lie around" registering and running
the software for longer than a grace period is sufficiently protected.
Furthermore the process of having registration at all, should scare
away most of the occasional pirate.
Jan
Alan Garny
news:419818D1.3070804@online-not-this-part-.no...
Indeed! I don't see why I would have to justify my use of a software, which
I obtained in a legitimate way. If Borland have doubts about my use of it,
then they should contact me, not the other way around! After all, they know
how to get in touch with me whenever they release a new product, so why not
in this kind of circumstance?!
Alan.
Edmund
> Derek Davidson wrote:
>> I'd love to get an open letter together to encourage Borland, and
>> firms like them, to *stop* treating their loyal and legal customers
>> as if they're 'pirates in waiting'. How about it guys?
>
> Only those who are real pirates would feel like this IMO.
'Dem's strong words with strong implications, Mr. Nilsen.
I dare say you better have proof to back up this claim or
opinion of yours. And what other pirates are there?
Fake pirates? Arrr' Shiver me timbers, matey. You've
got some explaining to do before ye walk the plank. Arrr'
I share Mr. Davidson's opinions.
I am *NOT* a pirate. I have D7 and have registered it
and activated it. My mobo took a nose dive and I will
end up having to re-install Delphi 7. I have lost track
of the # of times I've installed this. So I'll probably
need to go and call up Borland to get this settled.
Before you condemn me as a pirate, be very clear on
the following:
1) I use D7 on and off again. Normally I would keep
software installed unless I run out of disk space.
2) I don't use D7 much at all as I'm having some
difficulties getting re-acquainted with it.
So, when my HD fills up, the first thing I
do is delete programs which I hardly/rarely/do not
use. D7 would be the first on my list. Is
this illegal? NO. Can I reinstall it? YES.
Since I purchased the Licence to use it on my
computer, it doesn't matter HOW many times I
install the darn thing, it's still on ONE computer.
*MY* computer. I upgrade to a new system. I
uninstall the one from the old computer and
install it on the new one. Is this product
activation going to help Borland determine
for a fact that I've uninstalled it from
the old computer? No. So the point of
PA is basically to check up how many
times I've upgraded my computer and
whether it's fast and furious or
slow. Fast and furious would mean I have money
to spend to upgrade(or I'm a pirater).
Meaning I am a potential long time customer
(or a potential lock-up). Slow means I only
upgrade once in a while, so it means I'm
not a potential upgrader.
I hate product-activation schemes mainly for that
particular reason. If Borland wants to be a
Big Brother in this regards, that's their
perogative. If they can only trust us to
give them money blindly but not with their
product, they deserve to lose customers.
Capt. Red Beard
Derek Davidson
> But you are not required to activate the product Immediately
I don't think I should be *required* to register it at all.
> You just had to run unregistered
> until Monday.
Just so we're clear, my problem with registration had nothing to do
with the weekend problem of the install failing to accept my serial
number and authorisation key when attemptng to licence Delphi.
> I initially fought off all activation, now it is just a fact of life
...
But it's not one that we have to accept. If enough people made noise
about it, the technology would get 'uninvented'.
--
Derek Davidson
http://www.ebsms.com
Send SMS Text messages from your PC. For FREE!
Derek Davidson
> What's the harm?
Isn't that question the wrong way round? Shouldn't it be 'What's the
benefit?' (to the customer). Answer: None.
> If you ever visit Borland's BDN, it knows you, it
> sets you up so you can get into the registered updates page
I've never understood why it was necessary to be registered before you
could get to the updates page. I'm assuming that it was for anti-piracy
measures? But if so, it's woefully inadequate at the task.
Derek Davidson
> ... the software industry appears to be
> trying to move towards "software as a service"
I've heard a lot of noise about it (esp. from Microsoft) but never
actually seen it. I see pros and cons to the approach.
I've considered offering my prime product, Enterprise Blue Help Desk (
http://www.enterpriseblue.com ) on a lease where essentially, I'd
provide a fully hosted, turn-key, Internet enabled Help Desk product
for $x per month dependent upon number of concurrent Customer Service
Representatives. This idea proved very successfull especially with
larger organisations (esp. local government).
But then, I also sell it as a simple straight forward purchase so my
customers have a choice. This version was not as popular in part
because it was too expensive and because entry level was a 5 user
system. So now, there's a single user version being worked on that will
sell out at @$399.
In summary, I think it's all about choice.
Alan
> Derek Davidson wrote:
> > I'd love to get an open letter together to encourage Borland, and
> > firms like them, to *stop* treating their loyal and legal customers
> > as if they're 'pirates in waiting'. How about it guys?
>
> Only those who are real pirates would feel like this IMO.
> regarding this by now, really don't see any problem at all.
>
> I have several machines, have installed Delphi several times, not to
> mention MS OSes and Office etc. they have to be registered? Yes.
> Activated? Yes. Have never had much trouble.
>
At our college we have 20 licences of delphi 6 and because of their high
usage, machines have to be re-installed many times, and delphi has had to be
re-activated many times. We have had to contact borland a number of times
because we keep reaching our activation limit. I and our technicians find
this a real chore, and have given up trying to get Delphi working via an
automatic install via MSI because it seems to always fail because of this
registration.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> If Borland have doubts about my use of it,
> then they should contact me, not the other way around!
What if "you" are a person who downloaded a registration code off a
warez site. How is Borland to get in contact with "you"?
--
Nick Hodges -- TeamB
Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com
Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> I know the announcement is a bit old. However, it's one of those
> things that sticks in one's mind. I kept wondering when Borland
> would pull this rabbit out of the hat. Fortunately, this particular
> rabbit seems to have been retired. :-) One hopes...
Borland never deployed any product using this.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> Do you know anything about this?
I do. That silly plan has been totally, completely abandoned by
Borland.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> We have had to contact borland a number of times
> because we keep reaching our activation limit.
Interestingly, Delphi 6 didn't have the activation scheme requiring a
call to Borland, unless I am mistaken.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> Seems like a better solution!
When a license number is abused, whom should they contact?
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> So the point of
> PA is basically to check up how many
> times I've upgraded my computer and
> whether it's fast and furious or
> slow.
Huh? This is totally off. Not true at all.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> Furthermore it does nothing to stop, deter, or slow,
> real piracy.
No one has ever claimed that it did.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> The point is you shouldn't face the burden to begin with.
I agree. But since some people do cheat and steal, this really, really
unobtrusive system helps to increase Borland's profits.
>The whole
> notion of "keeping honest people honest" is ridiculous.
I agree, and so does Borland. I don't believe that they have ever
claimed to be doing such a thing.
> Borland loses
> far more in sales to out and out piracy (people trading it on IRC, P2P
> or elsewhere) than they'll ever lose to someone casually installing
> it.
That, I think, it quite untrue. They have actually realized increased
sales as a result of better license management. They have extensive
information about it.
> As other(s) have said, have the activation software contact a server
> and inform Borland of the installation that was performed, but don't
> actually require "activation", just keep track of people who are using
> their serial number more often than is acceptable and contact the
> person to sort out what's going on.
Yep, that's why it is really simple and unobtrusive. The system merely
hooks up the license number to an account -- and that account can be
anonymous if you want.
> I know it'll never happen, but what I think should happen is
> legislation should be passed to make this "mandatory activation"
> illegal (at least in the United States). The consumer should have the
> right to know that if they buy software (be it at a brick and mortar
> store or online) that they can use it without jumping through
> additional hoops. Treating the customer like a criminal is never a
> good choice.
I totally agree. Treating a customer like a criminal is totally
unacceptable. I'm glad that the Borland registration scheme doesn't do
that.
Ingvar Nilsen
> At our college we have 20 licences of delphi 6 and because of their
> high usage, machines have to be re-installed many times, and delphi
> has had to be re-activated many times.
I would suggest using a GHOST image in that case.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Jan Mitrovics
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>
> > Seems like a better solution!
>
> When a license number is abused, whom should they contact?
When a licensing number is abused they should contact the original
purchaser. Since one needs the Borland Online Account they should have
the contact address.
If they happen not to have an address they can also go and disable the
automatic granting of the registration process. The owner will then be
able to sort out the problem in case he need to register.
The difference here is that not by default all users will have to go
through this process, but only those where a misuse of the license is
anticipated!
Now the question is, what is the limit to detect if it is a pirate
copy. Or are there better ways to detect this?
The next question is, what happens if you reach the limit? If can show
that you are the original license holder, than it would be fair to lift
the level to the original 10 instead of 2. (Or maybe use a different
scheme which gives you a couple of reinstalls per year).
This will not only be good for the customers but also for Borland. Less
registration calls -> less efforts!
Jan
Ingvar Nilsen
> I've never understood why it was necessary to be registered before
> you could get to the updates page. I'm assuming that it was for
> anti-piracy measures?
Yes. I know "someone" who hasn't been able to update a D7 install just
because of this.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Ingvar Nilsen
>
>
> When a license number is abused, whom should they contact?
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Ingvar Nilsen
> Would you be OK with having to "activate" your car from the
> manufacturer each time you have an oil change or have some other work
> done on it?
In case making a copy of the car was easy - yes :-)
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> Aren't you supposed to give an e-mail address or phone number?
You can give good information or phony information.
If the license has been "released into the wild", what, exactly should
Borland say to this customer, who may or may not know about the problem?
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> purchaser. Since one needs the Borland Online Account they should have
> the contact address.
And what would the original purchaser do or say? What would Borland
ask them?
I strongly suspect that if Borland were to make such phone calls, there
would be huge threads with people complaining about "Big Brother
Borland" checking up on customers.
> If they happen not to have an address they can also go and disable the
> automatic granting of the registration process. The owner will then be
> able to sort out the problem in case he need to register.
Imagine the complaints then! I strongly suspect that if Borland were
to make such phone calls, there would be huge threads with people
complaining about "Big Brother Borland" checking up on customers.
> The difference here is that not by default all users will have to go
> through this process, but only those where a misuse of the license is
> anticipated!
Anticipated? I'm unclear that you are getting at here. Are you
suggesting that Borland determine ahead of time which customers are
potential pirates?
> Now the question is, what is the limit to detect if it is a pirate
> copy. Or are there better ways to detect this?
The limit exists to ensure that any one serial number isn't used
excessively.
> The next question is, what happens if you reach the limit? If can show
> that you are the original license holder, than it would be fair to
> lift the level to the original 10 instead of 2. (Or maybe use a
> different scheme which gives you a couple of reinstalls per year).
If the limit is legitimately reached, you call Borland and they give
you more installs. It is /really/ easy and decidedly unobtrusive.
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> In case making a copy of the car was easy - yes :-)
Exactly. ;-)
Alan Garny
news:4198cf77$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>> Seems like a better solution!
> When a license number is abused, whom should they contact?
??
Say that someone buys one of Borland's products and register (as is
currently the case with D7), then surely Borland must have a contact name,
address, etc. From there, it's up to the license holder to ensure that
his/her license is not abused.
If Borland have a doubt about a license number, they get in touch with the
person that owns it in an attempt to find out what has happened. If Borland
doesn't have a contact associated to a license number, then it is one that
has been generated in some way or another. In this particular case, I don't
think it's any different from what is already happening.
The overall difference, however, is that the honest user gets the impression
s/he is fully trusted in that s/he doesn't have to ring Borland, should s/he
have reach the maximum number of installs allocated to him/her.
Alan.
Iman L Crawford
@newsgroups.borland.com:
> One question to Borland on this topic.... What happens if they go out of
> business?
I'm more concerned with forced upgrades. When D7 is unsupported can you
still reinstall and use it?
--
Iman
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> When D7 is unsupported can you
> still reinstall and use it?
Yes.
Ingvar Nilsen
> Huh?! People who have a cracked version of D7 won't tell Borland
Sure? How? <g, d&r>
--
Ingvar Nilsen
Alan Garny
> Ingvar Nilsen wrote:
>> Aren't you supposed to give an e-mail address or phone number?
> You can give good information or phony information.
>
> If the license has been "released into the wild", what, exactly should
> Borland say to this customer, who may or may not know about the problem?
Cancel the old license and issue a new one?!
Alan.
Alan Garny
> I can't do much about how you feel, I suppose. It's up to you whether
> such a thing bothers you or not. It doesn't bother me, and I
> personally have a hard time why others would be bothered by it, but
> that's the way it is.
From reading this whole thread, it would appear like it does bother quite a
few of us. Granted, we are not necessarily the majority...
Alan.
Rick Carter
>> because we keep reaching our activation limit.
>
>Interestingly, Delphi 6 didn't have the activation scheme requiring a
>call to Borland, unless I am mistaken.
I suppose technically it was registration rather than activation, but
the only alternative would be to have a "nag screen" every time Delphi 6
starts, and a dialogue asking the user if he wants to register now or
later.
I can see where a college lab would not want to leave things in such a
state, because that would lead to the impression that they might not have
valid licenses.
Rick Carter
cart...@despammed.com
Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group
--- posted by geoForum on http://delphi.newswhat.com
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> Cancel the old license and issue a new one?!
Okay -- but how do you do that without people here complaining about
"Big Brother Borland"?
"Hi, this is Borland. You've allowed your license to be put up on the
internet. You have to go around to every Delphi install in your
company and re-license all of your machines."
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> From reading this whole thread, it would appear like it does bother
> quite a few of us. Granted, we are not necessarily the majority...
I know for a fact that Borland is aware that some people will be irked
by it. I suspect that the overall number is quite small.
I personally was virulently opposed to the scheme when it first came
out, but then when I saw how simple the system was and how unobtrusive
it really is, I changed my view on it. I think Borland has worked out
a very reasonable, effective system.
Iman L Crawford
@newsgroups.borland.com:
> As far as I understand the situation according to DMCA, legislation
> requires a certain amount of copy protection. If there is no copy
> protection it is anticipated, that the work may legitimately (or at
> least without punishment) be copied.
Not true. It is illegal to distribute any works without permission. Making
personal copies is allowed under US law and even circumventing protections
is allowed under the DMCA. What you can't do under the DMCA, is tell
others how to circumvent protections.
--
Iman
Nick Hodges [TeamB]
> Say that someone buys one of Borland's products and register (as is
> currently the case with D7), then surely Borland must have a contact
> name, address, etc.
No, that is not necessarily true. You can register anonymously.
> From there, it's up to the license holder to
> ensure that his/her license is not abused.
What if the license were stolen? It's quite easy to conceive of someone
copying the license down at work and taking it home and posting it on
the internet.
> If Borland have a doubt about a license number, they get in touch
> with the person that owns it in an attempt to find out what has
> happened.
Got any suggestions for the wording of that? My guess is that if this
were the case, then this thread would be complaining about phone calls
from Borland accusing people of being pirates.
> If Borland doesn't have a contact associated to a license
> number, then it is one that has been generated in some way or
> another. In this particular case, I don't think it's any different
> from what is already happening.
Well, yes, it's not really different. If I am not mistaken, you are
suggesting a program where users register, and if any given number is
used too much, then Borland refuse to accept it. Hmmm. Sounds like
the current system, only now you are saying that Borland should call
the very possibly unsuspecting user and ask them why their license is
being abused. Again, got any tactful wording for the poor Customer
Service rep?
> The overall difference, however, is that the honest user gets the
> impression s/he is fully trusted in that s/he doesn't have to ring
> Borland, should s/he have reach the maximum number of installs
> allocated to him/her.
I personally see no problem at all with the current system, and I
personally don't feel like I am being distrusted. I know why the
system exists, and since I know that I'm not doing anything wrong, I've
got know problem. Borland doesn't think I'm a criminal or distrust me
in anyway. They happily and easily add more installs to my license.