Convert Java to Delphi?
Asaf Goldman
Thanks,
Asaf
... largange @logicantilles...com Didier Largange
THIS would be a good idea !!!
Witch could bring a lot of client side java apps to Delphi/Kylix.
DL
IK
http://www.javadelphi.com/
"Didier Largange" <d ... largange @ logicantilles ... com> wrote in message
news:3c7a9165$1_2@dnews...
pnichols
"IK" <nos...@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:3c7bd893$1_1@dnews...
Seriously, wouldn't this kind of defat the purpose of the application to
begin with? I would assume that Java was used to cover Xplatform, while
Delphi and Kylix could cover only two OS and only one hardware type
processor, namely x86.
There used to be a product to go the other way (Delphi to Java, it was not
very good however), and there is a couple of VB to Java programs, but I have
never seen a product for the reverse. I would not think it would be a good
seller at all.
There are some Java to C++ programs I have seen and both Gnome and QT offer
native Java plugins (via JNI calls) for using Java to develop native
applications in the Unix world.
chi
enough for client side. So far, there isn't a lot of client java apps.
Chi
"pnichols" <paul@computer-logic> wrote in message news:3c7c0cbc$1_1@dnews...
... largange @logicantilles...com Didier Largange
>
> Seriously, wouldn't this kind of defat the purpose of the application to
> begin with? I would assume that Java was used to cover Xplatform, while
> Delphi and Kylix could cover only two OS and only one hardware type
> processor, namely x86.
I talk about client-side apps because I know the complexity and multipurpose
of the JDK. But it would be definitely interesting to be able to create more
profiled desktop applications.
The availability of such a product to convert Java GUI to CLX
- open source if possible - would definitely enforce Delphi/Kylix
reputations.
> There used to be a product to go the other way (Delphi to Java, it was not
> very good however), and there is a couple of VB to Java programs, but I
have
> never seen a product for the reverse. I would not think it would be a good
> seller at all.
As the Java users base is huge, even if the percentage of conversion is
low, it would still be significant. Whereas the opposite conversion is of
less interest as Delphi strenght among Java is more about GUI design.
Just an opinion.
DL
pnichols
"Didier Largange" <d ... largange @ logicantilles ... com> wrote in message
> > How many copies would it sell?? 5 <G>??
> >
multipurpose
> of the JDK. But it would be definitely interesting to be able to create
more
> profiled desktop applications.
> The availability of such a product to convert Java GUI to CLX
> - open source if possible - would definitely enforce Delphi/Kylix
> reputations.
>
creating just what you suggest (except as a native Java to CLX compile), but
wondered how big the market would be and if the effort would be worth my
time. My reasons are stated as follows.
A year to two years ago, Java GUI was too slow and resource intensive for
many types of applications based upon the machines in the mainstream at that
time. But now that JDK 1.4.0 and the entry level machines are 800-1 gz.
processors, I do not think there would be as lucrative a market. Run JSDK
1.4.0 on any 800 mz. x86 and up processor with 256 meg of RAM, and you will
see what I mean. Java GUI on this platform (1.4.0 and 800 mz.) is not slow
at all. No, I would not do games with it, albeit there are emerging gaming
engines for Java.
What I feel Delphi needs to enlarge it's exposure and user base, is to
continue to enlarge it's xplatform base (supporting Power PCs hence, MAC,
would be good for Delphi). It cannot and will not compete with Java (I mean
this as a marketing, support, and distribution issue more than a technical
issue one company verses hundreds supporting and committed to Java), but it
can increase it's scope with a native XPlatform support base.
Delphi is a marvelous language and tool and I wish back in the D2-D3 days,
Borland would have the insight they have now (concerning xplatform support).
Competiting with MS on MS' own turf has done Borland no favors. Continuing
in this pattern would cause them to either cease to exist or at least become
a very, very small company. Even Dale Fuller stated publically that if it
were not for the Internet and related products, Borland would not have
survived.
Borland and Delphi have life now, because of JBuilder. What ever one may
think of Java or JBuilder, it is the publicity of JBuilder as a superb (and
the number one) Java IDE that has kept Borland in the midst of Enterprise
computing. This opinion is not only my own, but is shared with many tech
writers and Gartner group (yes Gartner has been off several times). The shop
I worked for, before last, had Borland products in it (and kept a few copies
of Delphi around) for only one reason, Corba and JBuilder. They wanted to
ditch everything but MS Studio, but Borland was kept in the midst because of
JBuilder and Visibroker (which in turn also kept a few Delphi copies in the
IT department).
... largange @logicantilles...com Didier Largange
New machines, yes.
> processors, I do not think there would be as lucrative a market. Run JSDK
Right.
But as freeware, it could help people discover CLX abilities on desktop.
> What I feel Delphi needs to enlarge it's exposure and user base, is to
> continue to enlarge it's xplatform base (supporting Power PCs hence, MAC,
> would be good for Delphi). It cannot and will not compete with Java (I
mean
> this as a marketing, support, and distribution issue more than a technical
> issue one company verses hundreds supporting and committed to Java), but
it
> can increase it's scope with a native XPlatform support base.
It would definitely be a *great* exposure, as Mac apps are also reputed for
user-friendly UI.
People just keep on saying Apple is declining, but I'm sure - for many
reasons -
that they'll still be there for some time - as for Borland ;) .
First reason : It's deals with Microsoft
Second reason : Quality
You may remark that this is the same reasons as for Borland <G>
More, than that, there's a rather important market asking for good UI.
> Borland and Delphi have life now, because of JBuilder. What ever one may
> think of Java or JBuilder, it is the publicity of JBuilder as a superb
(and
> the number one) Java IDE that has kept Borland in the midst of Enterprise
> computing.
The cross platform model on Java is one model, CLX is another.
If I still use Delphi, it is also for the langage itself. Why do you think
MS try to include as many langages as possible into VS .NET ? Because
if they had the choice - starting from school times -, many would stay
with a more comprehensive langage than C-like langages (C/C++/Java/C#).
DL
pnichols
"Didier Largange" <d ... largange @ logicantilles ... com> wrote in message
> > time. But now that JDK 1.4.0 and the entry level machines are 800-1 gz.
>
> New machines, yes.
>
range. You cannot even buy a 990 mhz. today, without looking hard (except on
notebooks). Most start at 933 and up. XP itself requires a tremendous amount
of HP to run correctly.
> Right.
> But as freeware, it could help people discover CLX abilities on desktop.
>
Perhaps. But Java GUI is already free. So is Python and on Linux you have a
cornicopia of programming languages to choose from. You name it, the Linux
distro probably comes with it.
>
> It would definitely be a *great* exposure, as Mac apps are also reputed
for
> user-friendly UI.
> People just keep on saying Apple is declining, but I'm sure - for many
> reasons -
> that they'll still be there for some time - as for Borland ;) .
I do not think Apple is declining but holding it's own and picking up a few
converts. If the Open Source Darwin project suceeds, many more will be going
OS X (I would include myself among them). OS X is one awesome Desktop OS,
better than Windows, KDE, Gnome, etc. The only reason I do not use it, stems
from the fact that it runs only on Apple PCs and I would miss
BCB/Delphi/Kylix. This has been one of the downfalls of many OS competing
with MS; tools!! I can think of many better (at that time, of course)
Desktop OSes than Microsoft. OS/2 would smoke Windows 3.1 in terms of
stability and power and Warp would level Win 95/98/ME.. NT approached OS/2
Warp and 2000 passed it. Amiga was another great Desktop OS and the one that
should have made it. BE and it's precursor GEOS, were absolutely superb. But
they all had one thing in common, there were not enough correct drivers for
them and the development tools literally STUNK!!
>
> The cross platform model on Java is one model, CLX is another.
These lines are vastly being drawn. On Windows, agreed, CLX offer good
options fro XPlatform development. But there is Java-Gnome and Java-QT on
the Unix side. However, that being said, I believe that most GTK(+) and QT
applications will continue to be C/C++ based ones. Kylix C++ (if done
right), will probably overtake Kylix OOP Pascal in the long term. I would
venture to say that most newbies would go the C++ route than the OOP Pascal
route. Why? C++ is a more standard and industrial used langauge. That
doesn't mean it is better, just more accepted.
I still like CLX (do not get me wrong), because it offers the Delphi/BCB VCL
type method calls, without having to relearn the QT or GTK way. I currently
use Kylix when my user base will consist of older machines for GUI
development. It is the Cadillac or BMWs of RAD tools on Linux.
> If I still use Delphi, it is also for the langage itself. Why do you think
> MS try to include as many langages as possible into VS .NET ? Because
> if they had the choice - starting from school times -, many would stay
> with a more comprehensive langage than C-like langages (C/C++/Java/C#).
>
I do not see any advantage to a multiple language VMs.. Yes, in the short
term there may some advantages for companies needing to leverage existing
skills to development, but any development that uses mutli language for
development is asking for trouble in the long run. The fewer languages any
IT department uses and supports, the better their use of resources,
maintenance, and updates. Every time you insert a new language into the mix,
you must multiply support, development, and maintenance by the factor of the
number of languages used in a project.
I would not be a bit surprised to see a vast decline in the VB camp once NET
becomes the MS standard way of doing things. C# is going to the preferred
way of creating .NET applications. All others are going to be a vast
minority.
Delphi has been superior to VB since day one, but never gained the loyalty
and user base of VB. Yes marketing (or the lack thereof) have something to
do with this, but moreover it just doesn't pay in the long term to compete
with MS in their space. They are just too big, have tto much money, and hate
competition. They applaud it now (as per the peice they published about
Borland), because it serves them in their anti-trust case. But once this
case is settled, MS will once again steam roll ahead with their never ending
policy of embrace, extend, or extinguish.
Have a good one.