I'm amazed again! Borland and usenet.
Michal Borsuk
I have to admit than Borland has simply amazed me today! After posting
to borland.public.delphi.xml a warning about a bug I found, I was told
by a kind German reader that there exists a practice in Borland that
"news servers will pick up messages from the Borland news server, but
the Borland news server does not retrieve messages posted on other news
servers", ergo your message, if posted to another server, will not be
seen by most users.
Apparently, quoting after
http://delphi.wikicities.com/wiki/Delphi_Newsgroups , (which I realize
is independent from Borland), the company " can better avoid spam and
offensive messages in the newsgroups". Oh, Borland does not wish to
receive offensive messages. And what about the fact that any messages,
bot useful and offensive, if posted to any other news server (normal
usenet practce), will circulate anywhere in the world, probably includng
news.google.com archive?
This only proofs something. You can give you product a lausy name*), you
can ignore posts from other servers and still run the business! Have a
nice day at Borland!
*) I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi _is_ a lausy name
for that.
Regards
M Borsuk
Uffe Kousgaard
running usenet servers, that they pick up groups from Borland. Complain to
your ISP instead.
If you bother to look at the control.cancel group on Borlands servers you
will also see how much spam and other stuff is deleted for you to keep the
groups more clean.
Regards
Uffe
"Michal Borsuk" <va...@valid.net> wrote in message
news:42ff04f5$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Oliver Townshend
> can ignore posts from other servers and still run the business! Have a
> nice day at Borland!
I do think you are overreacting.
> *) I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi _is_ a lausy name
> for that.
And your spelling is lousy:)
Oliver Townshend
Lord Crc
wrote:
>You can give you product a lausy name*), you
>can ignore posts from other servers and still run the business!
News server does not equal public server. There are several non-public
news servers out there. There are several alternative newsgroups to
discuss Borland products in on the public servers.
The main issue is the fact that ISP's pull posts from this server as
if it was a public server.
- Asbjørn
![Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWU6JIYTx6kJCxK1P9qy-0IkTLb3QUOOaGRszn1aPNSjVyUm9M=s40-c)
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> Borlands news servers are not part of Usenet. It is really an error by
> those running usenet servers, that they pick up groups from Borland.
> Complain to your ISP instead.
Indeed. It seems that some ISPs really listen to this. Some have already
stopped picking up the Usenet copies.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Men are not disturbed by things, but the view they take of things."
- Epictetus (55-135 A.D.)
"What about things like bullets?"
- Herb Kimmel, Behavioralist, Professor of Psychology, upon hearing
the above quote (1981)
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> Apparently, quoting after
> http://delphi.wikicities.com/wiki/Delphi_Newsgroups , (which I realize
> is independent from Borland), the company " can better avoid spam and
> offensive messages in the newsgroups". Oh, Borland does not wish to
> receive offensive messages.
That's not it. Borland have policies on their news server, and they can't
control what is written on Usenet copies of these newsgroups. That is why
you should always access these newsgroups from the Borland server.
Borland simply does not support the (unauthorized) copies on Usenet. Note
that on Usenet there are groups in this ghierarchy which are not even
real newsgroups on the server, like borland.public.delphi. They are just
nodes on the server to allow the borland.public.delphi.* groups, not real
groups on this server.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Only one man ever understood me, and he didn't understand me."
-- GW Hegel.
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
>
> I have to admit than Borland has simply amazed me today! After posting
> to borland.public.delphi.xml a warning about a bug I found, I was told
> by a kind German reader that there exists a practice in Borland that
> "news servers will pick up messages from the Borland news server, but
> the Borland news server does not retrieve messages posted on other
> news servers", ergo your message, if posted to another server, will
> not be seen by most users.
These newsgroups have *never* been a part of usenet and there has never been
any intention to be (nor any claims that they are). The only thing they have
in common with usenet is that they both use NNTP. It is not Borland's error
that posts are not accepted here from usenet servers, it is error on the
part of other ISPs for mirroring Borland groups as though they were usenet
groups.
To take part here, you should connect directly to newsgroups.borland.com,
not to your local, or any other, newsgroup server.
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
Bandwagons are like streetcars, there'll be another along in a few
minutes.
Kevin
>>*) I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi _is_ a lausy name
>>for that.
>
> And your spelling is lousy:)
LOL- I was thinking the same.
Eric Schreiber
> I have to admit than Borland has simply amazed me today!
The amazing thing is that the difference between a private NNTP-based
service and Usenet at large was not apparent to you, even after you
took the time to connect to the Borland news server.
> I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi is a lausy name
> for that.
<shakes head in disbelief>
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> > I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi is a lausy name
> > for that.
>
> <shakes head in disbelief>
It's more or less like saying that Windows or Linux are lousy names for
an operating system. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"A [pseudo]random number generator is much like sex: when it's good
it's wonderful, and when it's bad it's still pretty good."
-- G. Marsaglia
Dejan Stanic
> *) I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi _is_ a lausy name
> for that.
Troll.
LP,
Dejan
Loren Pechtel
<look_at_www.routeware.dk> wrote:
>Borlands news servers are not part of Usenet. It is really an error by those
>running usenet servers, that they pick up groups from Borland. Complain to
>your ISP instead.
>
>If you bother to look at the control.cancel group on Borlands servers you
>will also see how much spam and other stuff is deleted for you to keep the
>groups more clean.
Second this.
I'm trying out Agent 3.0. It finally supports multi-server
operations.
I have another server listed that is copying the Borland groups and it
isn't respecting the cancels, either. Not only do I get the garbage
but I made a rule to kill cancel messages because I was seeing so many
of them.
Michal Borsuk
> Michal Borsuk wrote:
>
>
>>I have to admit than Borland has simply amazed me today!
>
>
> The amazing thing is that the difference between a private NNTP-based
> service and Usenet at large was not apparent to you,
I have microsoft.*, netscape.*, novell.* and a bunch of other groups on
the ISP's server, including borland.* . Tell me what user will suspect
that suddenly borland.* groups are not usenet.
Oliver Townshend
Well I don't know why you think it's sudden - they never have been. And I
still don't understand why you think it's a big deal. Once you know the
rules, its easy to work within them.
There are some official Usenet Delphi groups by the way. Haven't used them
in years and can't remember them, comp.language.something.Delphi if you are
desperate to use Usenet only.
Oliver Townshend
Eric Schreiber
*I* knew it. Everyone else posting here at the Borland service either
knew it or figured it out. Funny, though, I don't recall complaints
from most of them about it.
Wayne Niddery [TeamB]
Suddenly?
They have *never* been part of usenet. Borland cannot control what various
ISP's do and the fact that many ISPs include the Borland groups as though
they were part of usenet places no obligation on Borland whatsoever.
This fact is also documented at
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/genl_faqs.html:
>>>
I post and I post, but I never see any of my messages on the newsgroups.
What is going on?
You may be posting your messages to a server other than Borland's server
which is newsgroups.borland.com.
Messages to the newsgroups only actually reach them if posted on Borland's
own server. Check http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ for details on how to
access the Borland server.
Borland runs these Borland newsgroups on Borland hardware. Many other
servers (such as deja.com) mirror what's posted here, and will also show the
messages you post to them. However, Borland does not accept those messages
for relay to the central Borland newsgroup server. The vast majority of
newsgroup users do not see messages posted to mirrored servers, and TeamB
members or Borland personnel do not see them. This is why posts to mirrored
servers may get no answer, or no satisfactory answer.
So, if you are not accessing this newsgroup through the Borland server,
consider it read-only.
The reason for this policy is that the newsgroups are monitored. Off-topic
messages, oversize attachments, spam, etc. are very quickly canceled. This
helps the newsgroups maintain a coherence that is not generally achieved on
Usenet. Obviously, this pruning of incoming messages can only be done
efficiently if they all come into the same place -- the Borland server.
<<<
--
Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com)
RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html
"Nature abhors the vacuum tube." - J.R. Pierce, Bell Labs engineer who
coined the term 'transistor'
Captain Jake
expectations. It is probably easier to modify your expectations than it is
to modify reality.
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> I have microsoft.*, netscape.*, novell.* and a bunch of other groups on
> the ISP's server, including borland.* . Tell me what user will suspect
> that suddenly borland.* groups are not usenet.
Almost everyone here. The other hierarchies you mentioned are in the same
situation. I doubt MS or Novell accept feeds from Usenet, since they are
just as less part of Usenet as this server.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Why do grandparents and grandchildren get along so well? They have the
same enemy -- the mother." - Claudette Colbert.
Ingvar Nilsen
> *) I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi _is_ a lausy name
> for that.
You're mistaken. The product's name is Visual Pascal, Delphi is just a
code name.
--
Ingvar Nilsen
http://www.ingvarius.com
Dejan Stanic
> You're mistaken. The product's name is Visual Pascal, Delphi is just a
> code name.
>
It was AppBuildr (perhaps Application Builder).
But they decided to stick with beta name - which, IMHO, was a good
thing(tm).
LP,
Dejan
Ingvar Nilsen
Oh, yes, there it is, now I remember!
And I understand why they kept it, a great name!
Gbenga Abimbola
Agreed. Delphi is a better name than Visual Pascal. To be
honest, the first thing that drew me to this great tool was
the name. Hardly did I know that it will become one of the
greatest development tools ever written by humans.
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> Michal Borsuk wrote:
>
> > *) I have a lot of respect to the product, but Delphi is a lausy name
> > for that.
>
> You're mistaken. The product's name is Visual Pascal, Delphi is just a
> code name.
There was a Visual Pascal for OS/2, but not from Borland. It was later
renamed to Virtual Pascal, AFAIK.
The name was supposed to be AppBuilder, and Delphi sounds a lot better,
IMO.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"Small minds run in the same gutter."
-- Alfred E. Neuman
Carl Caulkett
> Hello.
>
> I have to admit than Borland has simply amazed me today! After posting
> to borland.public.delphi.xml a warning about a bug I found, I was told
> by a kind German reader that there exists a practice in Borland that
> "news servers will pick up messages from the Borland news server, but
> the Borland news server does not retrieve messages posted on other
> news servers", ergo your message, if posted to another server, will
> not be seen by most users.
I wonder how many people realise that there appears to be a whole
little community posting to borland.public.delphi ?
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/borland.public.delphi?hl=en
I'm guessing that they are posting using Google groups and somehow
bypassing the fact that borland.public.delphi is a placeholder.
--
Carl
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> Michal Borsuk wrote:
>
> > Hello.
> >
> > I have to admit than Borland has simply amazed me today! After posting
> > to borland.public.delphi.xml a warning about a bug I found, I was told
> > by a kind German reader that there exists a practice in Borland that
> > "news servers will pick up messages from the Borland news server, but
> > the Borland news server does not retrieve messages posted on other
> > news servers", ergo your message, if posted to another server, will
> > not be seen by most users.
>
> I wonder how many people realise that there appears to be a whole
> little community posting to borland.public.delphi ?
I do. Considering the fact that that newsgroup is not even an existing
newsgroup on this server, but just the root for a range of other
newsgroups, that is funny indeed. I wonder if these people actually know
why people like TeamB and Borland are so unresponsive to them. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"If it wasn't for C, we'd be writing programs in BASI, PASAL, and
OBOL." -- unknown
Larry Maturo
the ultimate development environment for Oracle, so it was a word play
on the Oracle at Delphi? Of course, it always supported more than
Oracle, but at the time MS Sql Server was not even a close second to
Oracle in the DB market. Also, without this great name we couldn't
have all the great Greek looking icons and pictures. :-)
-- Larry Maturo
"Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <velt...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0e621vn16ie...@www.teamb.com...
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]
> You do realize that Delphi was picked because the product was to be
> the ultimate development environment for Oracle,
Not exactly:
http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,20396,00.html
<<
The strategic decision to make database tools and connectivity a
central part of the new Pascal product had been made only a few days
before,
>>
So that was not from the start, and databases were a central part, but
not only Oracle.
--
Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de
"In all large corporations, there is a pervasive fear that someone,
somewhere is having fun with a computer on company time. Networks help
alleviate that fear." -- John C. Dvorak.