Borland vs VS: Update
Chuck Hutchings
Based on the feedback I got, I decided that the best approach was to just
PROVE that Delphi is better than VS. We were scheduled to meet with them
Thursday to work on Use Cases (we are only contracted to do 'requirements'
at this point) so Monday/Tuesday I whipped up a prototype app.
On Wednesday morning I had one of the other guys do a quick online help
system for a couple of the screens I had created. By noon we were off to the
airport and on Thursday we met with the client. We spent the day going
through Use Cases during which time it "somehow" got out that I had a
prototype with me. Towards the end of the day they asked about seeing the
prototype. Begrudgingly, I complied...
In 5 minutes I demonstrated how the system could control their device (and
do some things with it they didn't know were possible), navigate some sample
data, view REAL reports with live data, connect to THEIR website (I have a
wireless Internet card), change look and feel on a whim, dock/undock forms,
customize toolbars, context-sensitive online help, do a lot of cool stuff
with TChart, etc.
They were like, "Uh, why do we need requirements? It's done!" (OK, I'm
embellishing a bit.)
Yesterday we reviewed their own requirements system. (Ugh.) I then explained
how Caliber/Model Maker/et al work together to speed the development prcess.
The guy knew a lot about the products but wasn't aware they were now
Borland. (He likes them better than what he's using but he has no choice.) A
big plus there.
I also explained how doing a new W32 project in VB or VC++ would just
require a re-write in a few years but doing so in Delphi would be a
significantly less expensive proposition. (.NET is not an option at this
point due to the 30MB download required for the majority of their customers;
Also, the possible Linux deployment is a BIG plus due to the nature of their
business.)
Anyway, it looks as if Borland might have won this one! (And now I'm
prepared for the next one.)
Thanks to all who replied. A lot of your input was very helpful.
Chuck
PS. Also a big thanks to DevExpress. While Borland/Delphi makes it easy to
do things fast, DevEx REALLY blows people away visually. (Particularly the
Office 11 style - they had never seen it.)
Dave Keighan
> Anyway, it looks as if Borland might have won this one! (And now I'm
> prepared for the next one.)
Congratulations. Borland didn't win it _you_ did. Borland may benefit...
> PS. Also a big thanks to DevExpress. While Borland/Delphi makes it
> easy to do things fast, DevEx REALLY blows people away visually.
> (Particularly the Office 11 style - they had never seen it.)
Yea, wouldn't a $2K shopping spree there be fun (heck, I'd be happy
with $500) or they could just bundle it all with D8 :)
--
Posted by Dave Keighan with XanaNews 1.15.3.2
David Clegg
just in this World :-)
--
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com
(Sorry John, I only have your newsreader installed on my work machine)
Chuck Hutchings
"Dave Keighan" <SpamTrap...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f2c...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Chuck Hutchings wrote:
<SNIP>
> Congratulations. Borland didn't win it _you_ did. Borland may benefit...
No - I COULD have broken down and done it in VB (or subbed it out). I
consider this a win for Borland. And it's a Bio-Tech job which is where
Borland needs to make some headway to overthrow VB.
Thanks,
Chuck
Dave Keighan
>
> "Dave Keighan" <SpamTrap...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3f2c...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> > Chuck Hutchings wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > Congratulations. Borland didn't win it you did. Borland may
> > benefit...
> <SNIP REST>
>
> No - I COULD have broken down and done it in VB (or subbed it out). I
> consider this a win for Borland. And it's a Bio-Tech job which is
> where Borland needs to make some headway to overthrow VB.
OK Chuck, by your command. Congrats to you _and_ Borland. Well done.
Chuck Hutchings
news:Xns93CC65571D558d...@207.105.83.65...
> Congrats, Chuck. Chalk up another victory for all that is righteous and
> just in this World :-)
David,
Thanks. I think the 'clencher' was the fact that they NEED this to be done
by January and they can't do it in-house. The obviously 'workable' prototype
really opened their eyes to the "VB=1 Year" vs "Delphi=a few months" factor.
In fact, most of the code will be almost done in just a few weeks. The rest
of the time will be spent testing/documenting/etc. (HIPAA/FDA regulations
and such.)
Also, the fact that we have an auditable process in place doesn't hurt.
One of their biggest sticking points was how they would combine our
'traceability' matrix and documents into their system. We convinced them
that they didn't need to. Since OUR process is auditable, they could just
put our final deliverables into source control and reference OUR system.
Beauty!
Thanks,
Chuck
Bob Dawson
> And it's a Bio-Tech job which is where
> Borland needs to make some headway to overthrow VB.
Just out of curiousity, where do you find a lot of VB in biotech? (it
happens to be my field at well, though we don't use VB)
bobD
Chuck Hutchings
"Bob Dawson" <RBDa...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3f2c681d$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> Just out of curiousity, where do you find a lot of VB in biotech? (it
happens to be my field at well, though we don't use VB)
>
> bobD
Bob,
I probably should have said "Life-Sciences" or 'Medical". While most of our
work is Bio-tech (genomics/proteomics/etc) it all kind of falls under the
same umbrealla. (I guess I've filled out too many online surveys.)
But to answer your question: a LOT of the companines we work for have legacy
systems/apps written in VB. (Mostly robotic control systems and such.) They
usually tend to want the new stuuf to be "compatible" with the old. (In
their eyes.)
It was this tendency that prompted my original post.
I DO see a trend away from VB lately but there is still a LOT of it out
there. I think a lot of the problem is that these firms are VERY competent
developing "embedded systems" in C (since they make the hardware) but don't
know how to develop a good (Windows, etc.) application to control it. They
are comfortable with C and believe it will transfer to the VC++/VB world.
Unfortunately, they don't know the Windows API/OOP/etc. so it's just a wate
of time.
Thanks,
Chuck
Sebastian Moleski
news:3f2c5c7a$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> "David Clegg" <dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93CC65571D558d...@207.105.83.65...
> > Congrats, Chuck. Chalk up another victory for all that is righteous and
> > just in this World :-)
> <SNIP REST>
>
> David,
>
> Thanks. I think the 'clencher' was the fact that they NEED this to be done
> by January and they can't do it in-house. The obviously 'workable' prototype
> really opened their eyes to the "VB=1 Year" vs "Delphi=a few months" factor.
> In fact, most of the code will be almost done in just a few weeks. The rest
> of the time will be spent testing/documenting/etc. (HIPAA/FDA regulations
> and such.)
I'm not sure about all the details but I think that Borland might be interested
in stories like that for their own advertising. Maybe you can talk to JohnK or
someone at the marketing department and see if they are interested on a White
Paper outlining how you used Delphi and the other tools together. There might be
something in it for you too.
sm
Developer Express - Ray
> do things fast, DevEx REALLY blows people away visually. (Particularly the
> Office 11 style - they had never seen it.)
Glad to hear of your success. :-) If you have the time and want us to
profile your efforts on our site, let me know.
Alessandro Federici - RemObjects Software
> Based on the feedback I got, I decided that the best approach was to just
> PROVE that Delphi is better than VS.
Good job!
Thanks for the update ;-)
--
Regards,
Alessandro Federici
RemObjects Software, Inc.
http://www.remobjects.com
Best Communications Tool In 2003 Delphi Informant Readers Choice Awards
John Kaster
> I'm not sure about all the details but I think that Borland might be interested
> in stories like that for their own advertising. Maybe you can talk to JohnK or
> someone at the marketing department and see if they are interested on a White
> Paper outlining how you used Delphi and the other tools together. There might be
> something in it for you too.
Thanks, I think one of our marketing people will be contacting Chuck
because Danny pointed out his message already. Chuck, if you're
interested, you can email me and I'll hook you up with the right person.
Bob Dawson
> systems/apps written in VB. (Mostly robotic control systems and such.)
Come to think of it, yes--and I'd think that fixing the Windows control
software for lab robotics would be a fertile market. Lord knows we're run
across some 'interesting' APIs <g>. Best of luck to you.
bobD
Chuck Hutchings
Anders O. knows me fairly well. He has all my contact info as we correspond
frequently.
Thanks,
Chuck
PS. I like the part where Sebastian said "There might be something in it for
you too." <VBG>
Chuck Hutchings
news:3f2c...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Ray,
Thanks. I'll contact you later this week privately to discuss details.
Chuck
Chuck Hutchings
A couple of years ago we did a project that encompassed an 'off the shelf'
robotics system for fluid handling and sample control. The client advised us
that the robotics manufacturer had a DLL "thing" that could control it and
it would make our life easier.
I checked it out for grins. What a piece of junk. No collision avoidance to
speak of; all ActiveX (don't get me started), and the list goes on.
To make a long story short, in just a few weeks we developed the coolest
control system for the robot - all in a simple component. The best part was
when they kept asking us about our "command parser" (which, I guess, is a
big thing with these people.) Our reply was "PARSER?!? We don't need no
stinkin' PARSER!" The whole thing is drag-and-drop from an infinite list of
user-definable commands. In addition, our component can be modified to
contol almost ANY robot with ANY combination of
pumps/plungers/washers/arms/etc.
We are now working with the original robotics manufacturer on another
project.
Thanks,
Chuck
"Bob Dawson" <bda...@idtdna.com> wrote in message
news:3f2d4715$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
John Kaster
> Anders O. knows me fairly well. He has all my contact info as we correspond
> frequently.
Ok. He wasn't one of the people cc'd in Danny's email, but I'll let him
know if he doesn't already.
Chuck Hutchings
Good Lord! Don't you people ever rest?!? It's SUNDAY! Go Bar-b-q something!
BTW, we're also in the BSP program.
Thanks,
Chuck
"John Kaster" <jo...@borland.com> wrote in message
news:3f2d8d70$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...
Bob Dawson
> when they kept asking us about our "command parser" (which, I
> guess, is a big thing with these people.)
Hmmm-we must be working with companies you haven't helped yet. We have
liquid handling robots that are controlled by our software writing out
command batchfiles for them and then submitting the file name to the dll.
(At least that's my understanding...)
bobD
Chuck Hutchings
Hmm, that sounds familiar...wait 'til you see what we do to it!
Chuck
John Kaster
> Good Lord! Don't you people ever rest?!? It's SUNDAY! Go Bar-b-q something!
Pot, meet Kettle.
If our customers took the weekends off, we would, too. ;-)
Rosimildo da Silva
LOL ! good one. This online thing that you never leave the house,
and you are walking around, and just hear the noise: "You got mail !".
It is really easy to get hooked.
Rosimildo.
Alessandro Federici - RemObjects Software
news:3f2e...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> and just hear the noise: "You got mail !".
> It is really easy to get hooked.
Tell me you don't use AOL, do you? <G>
Sierra Spartacus
wrote in message news:3f31...@newsgroups.borland.com...
> "Rosimildo da Silva" <rosi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3f2e...@newsgroups.borland.com...
>
> > and just hear the noise: "You got mail !".
> > It is really easy to get hooked.
It doesn't say "you got mail !", it guesses your gender. For instance, when
I log on, it deduces: "You're a male!".
--
Clay Shannon, author of "the Wacky Misadventures of Warble McGorkle"
Download it at http://tinyurl.com/cent