Out of System Resources - Does anyone else experience this problem?
M Tuttle
If I am posting this in the wrong NG, please direct me where to post.
My problem: With this fast new computer, I still do no have enough system
resources to develope using Delphi 4.
I am out the end of my rope and don't know what to do.
I am currently developing with Delphi 4.03 on a brand new Compaq 5726
computer.
500mhz Pentium III with integrated 512KB Pipeline burst cache.
160MB 100MHz SyncDRAM memory.
19GB UltraDMA Hard Drive.
6X DVD-ROM with MPEG2
1.5MB Max Digital DSL Modem.
S3 Savage 4 3D Graphics 8MB Video Memory.
Windows 98 version 2
I have contacted Compaq technical support twice on this issue. The first
time they had me go to run | msconfig and remove most of the items on the
Startup tab and they also had me defrag my disc (Yes, even on a brand new
machine). This indeed gave me more system resources, but not enough. The
second time I called they told me to add more RAM. However I told them that
the first tech support person said that more memory does not equal more
system resources. (DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?, I do because I started out with
96MB and added 64MB more with no change in system resource, but boy does
this puppy fly) Then the second support person suggested that I ask on this
NG to see if anyone else has had a problem with Compaq and Delphi,
suggesting that maybe they needed to make changes to their SoftBios.
Heres what happens:
1) Fresh boot, open Resource Meter. It shows System 92%, User 92%, GDI 95%
This is great!
2) Open Delphi 4.03 to a new blank project. It now shows System 53%, User
65%, GDI 53% Yikes!
3) Open my current project. It now shows System 40%, User 56%, GDI 40% My
project current has two forms showing. I go to my main form and place (1)
break point.
4) Compile and run. It now shows System 13%, User 42%, GDI 13% I am now
operating in the red zone of the Resource Meter.
5) Open a secondary form in my running App. It now shows System 7%, User
40%, GDI 7% and then I receive an error dialog [Low Resources] Ninety
percent or more of your system resource are in use. To free up system
resources, quit any program that you are not using. If you do not, your
computer may stop responding. I then click ok and shut down.
QUESTIONS:
1) Does anyone else have this kind of problem. Could someone else using
Delphi 4.03 please share there resource meter with me.
2) Is this a Delphi problem or a Compaq SoftBios problem?
3) Could this be caused by third party component? (Just grabbing here)
4) What is the correct way to Add more system resources?
Thanks all that reply.
Mike
Yoram Halberstam
Under Win9x more memory does not equate more ressources (Under it does)... It
looks to me as if you should be running NT. But nethertheless it is still not
quite right that your are using so many resources (especially for a 2 form
project).
Do you have an impressive amount of windowed control? (ie: Images)
I know Win9x is a toy that breaks easily but what you are describing is out of
the ordinary.
Also check the amount of memory in your Virtual Memory File...
Dr. Delphi
pascal bazinet
for 1 and 2, I get the same numbers (2-3 percents different).
3) System:35% User:35% GDI:43%
4) System:31% User:31% GDI:40%
5) not dramaticly drop as your.
I try to open all form of my project (60) and to arrive to the «Low
Resources» message (System:7%) at the 25th form.
So as Yoram Halberstam say : «Do you have an impressive amount of windowed
control?»
pascal bazinet
M Tuttle a écrit dans le message <7tggm0$6u...@forums.borland.com>...
Art Begun
to it, Windows became unreliable. (Actually what I mean is that
Windows became more unreliable than would be expected of a
normally unreliable operating system.) It turned out that
even though the computer appeared to recognize the memory,
it still wasn't using it correctly. After wasting a week trying to
resolve the issue with the idiots at Compaq support, a buddy
of mine in the PC business contacted a higher up at their
service center. Turns out, I needed to clear the CMOS. There
should be a label inside the computer that tells you how to do
that. Write down the original settings first though so you can
reset the ones that need to be reset after you clear it. I believe
you get into setup with F10 at boot up.
I'm not promising that this will fix your problem but it is worth
a shot. And of course, more memory does NOT increase
resources in WIn95/98 but you should have plenty of both
with your setup.
And yes, I reported this back to COmpaq support but
they did not believe me until I started solving problems
for the poor people on the Web forum who couldn't get
their Compaq working reliably after adding memory.
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
M Tuttle wrote:
>
> Greetings All,
>
> The
> second time I called they told me to add more RAM. However I told them that
> the first tech support person said that more memory does not equal more
> system resources. (DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?, I do because I started out with
> 96MB and added 64MB more with no change in system resource, but boy does
> this puppy fly) Then the second support person suggested that I ask on this
> NG to see if anyone else has had a problem with Compaq and Delphi,
> suggesting that maybe they needed to make changes to their SoftBios.
>
Under Win9x more RAM does not equate to more resources. Resources are static
and easy to use up. WinNT runs each program in its own virtual machine from a
resource standpoint so resources are rarely a problem under WinNt.
> Heres what happens:
> 1) Fresh boot, open Resource Meter. It shows System 92%, User 92%, GDI 95%
> This is great!
>
> 2) Open Delphi 4.03 to a new blank project. It now shows System 53%, User
> 65%, GDI 53% Yikes!
>
This is much too much of a drop. The only time I've seen a drop like this was
when I was using CodeRush with Delphi. CR is a resource hog and probably
shouldn't be used under Win9x. What kind of third party components/experts are
you using? I'd suspect one of them for eating up the resources.
> 3) Open my current project. It now shows System 40%, User 56%, GDI 40% My
> project current has two forms showing. I go to my main form and place (1)
> break point.
>
Depending on what is on the forms this could be eralistic, but once again is a
little steep.
> 4) Compile and run. It now shows System 13%, User 42%, GDI 13% I am now
> operating in the red zone of the Resource Meter.
>
This drop will be higher thatn the drop of just having the form open in the
IDE. There are a few extra resources required when running as opposed to
designing. Not a whole lot, but some.
> 5) Open a secondary form in my running App. It now shows System 7%, User
> 40%, GDI 7% and then I receive an error dialog [Low Resources] Ninety
> percent or more of your system resource are in use. To free up system
> resources, quit any program that you are not using. If you do not, your
> computer may stop responding. I then click ok and shut down.
>
When things get this low nothing is reliable included the resource monitor.
> QUESTIONS:
> 1) Does anyone else have this kind of problem. Could someone else using
> Delphi 4.03 please share there resource meter with me.
>
before D4.03 88 88 95
base project 77 78 77
> 2) Is this a Delphi problem or a Compaq SoftBios problem?
>
Not that I've heard of.
> 3) Could this be caused by third party component? (Just grabbing here)
>
Like I mentioned before CodeRush can cause resource drains like you've seen.
Any third party expert could do it too.
> 4) What is the correct way to Add more system resources?
>
You can't. Under both Win9x and WinNT resources are limited by the OS not RAM.
WinNt raises the limit high enough that if you hit it you've got serious design
problems.
> Thanks all that reply.
>
> Mike
--
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
(Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You)
This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother's
side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else
to sustain them. Humoring them costs nothing and ads to happiness in
a world in which happiness is in short supply.
(RAH)
--
M Tuttle
Yoram Halberstam Wrote:
> Under Win9x more memory does not equate more ressources (Under it does)...
It
> looks to me as if you should be running NT. But nethertheless it is still
not
> quite right that your are using so many resources (especially for a 2 form
> project).
Actually there are 1 data module, 31 forms, 2 pas units. However, I only
have 2 of them open when compiling and running this program.
> Do you have an impressive amount of windowed control? (ie: Images)
No, at least I don't think so.
> I know Win9x is a toy that breaks easily but what you are describing is
out of
> the ordinary.
Agreed, I did not have this problem on an older/slower computer.
> Also check the amount of memory in your Virtual Memory File...
What do you mean? Should I try to not let windows manage this itself?
Thanks
Mike
M Tuttle
To All, I know this is a rather long message, however I think it might be
worth you time and effort to read. Please reply with your results if
possible. If nothing else please see the 2 questions at the bottom of this
message and answer if you can. THANKS TO ALL WHO REPLY.
Disclaimer - Please be aware that the results below are not scientific, but
have been throughly checked and noted on my machine. I have spent over 4
hours now checking this out.
Jeff Wrote:
> Under Win9x more RAM does not equate to more resources. Resources are
> static and easy to use up. WinNT runs each program in its own virtual
machine
> from a resource standpoint so resources are rarely a problem under WinNt.
Are there any pitfalls to changing to an NT operating system?
Can I simply install over win98? or do I have to remove, format, reinstall
software, etc?
Will it still work with all windows or DOS programs I now use?
*******************
Mike Wrote:
> Heres what happens:
> 1) Fresh boot, open Resource Meter.
> It shows System 92%, User 92%, GDI 95% This is great!
> 2) Open Delphi 4.03 to a new blank project.
> It now shows System 53%, User 65%, GDI 53% Yikes!
Jeff Wrote:
> This is much too much of a drop. The only time I've seen a drop like this
> was when I was using CodeRush with Delphi. CR is a resource hog and
> probably shouldn't be used under Win9x. What kind of third party
> components/experts are you using? I'd suspect one of them for eating up
> the resources.
I agree that this is too much of a drop since you say that your system
before D4.03 88 88 95 and base project 77 78 77. Thats only a small drop
compared to mine. I am not using CR.
Now for more info. I slowly removed each component that does not come with
Delphi 4 making a note of the resources after each removal. I originally
thought that I had to exit Delphi and then re-enter Delphi to see resources
change,
but after several hours of testing this, I found you do not have to exit
Delphi to see the resources change, just wait a few seconds.
After completely removing all experts and components, and rebooting my
machine for a fresh start, here are my results:
1) Fresh Boot System 92%, User 92%, GDI 95%
2) Open Delphi 4.03 to a new blank project. It now shows System 61%, User
70%, GDI 61% Still Yikes compared to Jeffs 77, 78, 77!
I now slowly add experts first, followed by components, noteing resource
meter after each. If I run across a drop in resources, I make a note and
remove that component to save till last, just to be sure that number of
components added to the component pallete was not causing a resource drop as
well. It does not.
3) Add File Loader 4.1 (Library path manager) System 61%, User 70%, GDI
61%
4) Add GExperts System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
So I now know that the experts did not cause a resource drop.
5) Add Shazam Report Wizard System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
6) Add G.L.A.D Components by Greg Lief System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
7) Add Toolbar97 by Jordan Russell System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
8) Add MetaPhone (Soundex Component) System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
9) Add SoftTech Component (Developed by me) System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
10) Add OxMenus System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
11) Add Turbopower OnGuard System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
12) Add IniOut (Component Property Manager) System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
13) Add EqPack1 and 2 System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
14) Add misc Freeware components System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
15) Skyline Tools ImageLib Corp Suite System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
As you can see I have added several component packages without any resource
loss. I have now saved the component packages that did chew up resource for
last. To be fair I would install the component set, note the drop in
resource, then uninstall them to see for sure if my resources increased
again, they did. I would leave them uninstalled to test the next component
and finally later install all to see total resource consumption.
16) 2% loss YouseFul (Installation Component Set - Which I really like)
System 59%, User 70%, GDI 59%
17) 1% loss InfoPower 4 System 60%, User 70%, GDI 60%
18) 1% loss Turbopower Orpheus System 60%, User 70%, GDI 60%
19) 2% loss Raize Components II System 59%, User 70%, GDI 59%
20) 2% loss Top Support TopGrid 2.0 System 59%, User 70%, GDI 59%
With all components in this loss group installed System 55%, User 70%, GDI
55%
So as you can see, even thought the resource meter would should a
significant drop in resources for each individual component, as a group it
was not quite as bad. Below were the results as I installed each of the
loss components with the resource meter results. I believe that the worst
offenders are obvious. I think they are YouseFul, and TopGrid based on these
final results.
A) Before install of loss components System 61%, User 70%, GDI 61%
B) Add YouseFul System 58%, User 70%, GDI 58%
C) Add InfoPower 4 System 58%, User 70%, GDI 58%
D) Add Orphues 3 System 58%, User 70%, GDI 58%
E) Add Raize Components II System 57%, User 70%, GDI 57%
F) Add TopGrid 2.0 System 55%, User 70%, GDI 55%
If anyone elese that has these components could check there resource meter
before and after removal to verify my results I would appreciate your
results.
Question: Why do these components eat up resources, when others dont?
Question: Why is my Delphi 4.03 eating up a tremendous amount of resources,
does anyone else show a hugh drop in resources like this from 90% to 61% or
55? Thats a 29% - 35% drop in resources compared to Jeffs 11%
Thanks
Mike
M Tuttle
Art Begun <beg...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:7tgodu$aa...@forums.borland.com...
> I have a Compaq Presario. When I added memory
> to it, Windows became unreliable. (Actually what I mean is that
> Windows became more unreliable than would be expected of a
> normally unreliable operating system.) It turned out that
> even though the computer appeared to recognize the memory,
> it still wasn't using it correctly. After wasting a week trying to
> resolve the issue with the idiots at Compaq support, a buddy
> of mine in the PC business contacted a higher up at their
> service center. Turns out, I needed to clear the CMOS. There
> should be a label inside the computer that tells you how to do
> that. Write down the original settings first though so you can
> reset the ones that need to be reset after you clear it. I believe
> you get into setup with F10 at boot up.
What things are you talking about changing?
My computer runs fast. Just htting the resource limit with only Delphi and
my project opened.
> I'm not promising that this will fix your problem but it is worth
> a shot. And of course, more memory does NOT increase
> resources in WIn95/98 but you should have plenty of both
> with your setup.
>
> And yes, I reported this back to COmpaq support but
> they did not believe me until I started solving problems
> for the poor people on the Web forum who couldn't get
> their Compaq working reliably after adding memory.
What Web forum are you referring too?
How do I know if Compaq is reconizing the new memory? I can tell you that
when I install the memory, it threw up an error message stating the ther was
a mismatch in memory, but seemed to correct it automatically. It does show
that I have 160MB of memory.
Thanks
Mike
Corey Lawson
could be invoking
a memory leak in them through Delphi (which does NOT make it Delphi's
fault).
Weird stuff like this happens with MS Office apps, because they cheat a lot
in how they display things, and if your video and/or printer drivers aren't
up to snuff, then weird and bad things will slowly start to happen...
Another part of the problem could be you have a lot of drivers that still
use real mode memory (i.e., <640K, aka DOS memory). There are ways to force
some drivers and DLLs to minimize their use of this memory in Win9x. Check
some Windows tuning web pages to find out more. Sorry I don't have any URLs
off the top of my head for you, but you could probably find a few in
http://www.hotwired.com/ searching on "windows tuning" or optimization...
The biggest problems with changing from Win9x to NT are:
1) if you have a lot of games, most of them probably won't work in NT (SP3+
only provides DirectX 3).
2) no USB support for NT4.
3) hardware choices are more limited (fewer device drivers for NT than
Win9x).
4) DOS programs probably won't work, as most of them directly touch
hardware, which is a nono in NT.
Advantages:
if you convert to NTFS, and don't run as Administrator (tempting as that may
be...), then you have much more security on your system than Win9x. Win9x
is for all practical purposes unsecure, despite what MS might say. Which
means that you can set up different "profiles" for different people, but on
NT it actually means they work as intended (i.e., set up your kids so that
they can't touch c:\WINNT, for example (except their profile folder)).
it crashes less than Win9x, and most app crashes don't take down the system.
--
--------------------------------------------------
Corey Lawson
cla...@bogusucsd.edu
(remove the 'bogus', as it's my feeble attempt
to defeat spammer address suckers)
Rudy Velthuis
>I have a Compaq Presario. When I added memory
>to it, Windows became unreliable.
I had this problem on my P90 with 16MB and W95. When I added 32MB, it
reported 63MB (not 64, 63!). Even when I took out the original 16MB it
would report 47MB. I found out that using the HIMEM.SYS of Win3.1
solved the problem. Since then I've never had any problems with it.
My son (6 yrs old) still uses it for his Lego games.
--
Rudy Velthuis
Art Begun
settings, clear the CMOS according to the instructions inside
the computer (probably just pull a jumper for 30 seconds),
boot it back up and reset the settings. There is
apparently an invisible setting that only afew people
at Compaq know about that once it gets set, does not correctly
readjust itself to new memory... the only way to fix it is
to clear the cmos temporarily. Like I said, the instructions
to clear the CMOS should be on a label inside your Compaq. They
were in mine. This advice came from a higher up
service guy at Compaq.
M Tuttle <stwi...@networksplus.net> wrote in message
news:7tig32$mp...@forums.borland.com...
> Hi Art,
>
> Art Begun <beg...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:7tgodu$aa...@forums.borland.com...
> > I have a Compaq Presario. When I added memory
Art Begun
of people programming in Delphi have
Compaqs so if I may...
Actually one of the PC magazines just had an
article addressing warrenties when doing stuff like this. Obviously
the companies expect you to open the box and
add stuff and at least Compaq gives you
full instructions on clearing the CMOS. Generally
the policies were, according to the magazine article,
do anything you want but if you break it we may not
cover it under warrenty. In the Compaq case of my
PII machine, the CMOS reset virtually everything automatically
when re-booted,
except the parallel port, and clearing it temporarily
fixed the motherboards inability to adjust to 256 megs
of memory. Now the 333 PII with 256 megs and notoriously
slow Compaq branded hard drive is almost
as fast as a 550 PIII machine in the next office.
Leigh Wanstead <le...@NOSPAMwds.co.nz> wrote in message
news:37FD38D2...@NOSPAMwds.co.nz...
> Dear Art Begun,
>
> Open the computer box, clear the CMOS. Does that sound like violate the
warranty
> of Compaq?
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Best Regards
> Leigh Wanstead
>
Leigh Wanstead
Open the computer box, clear the CMOS. Does that sound like violate the warranty
of Compaq?
Just a thought.
Best Regards
Leigh Wanstead
matt_com...@my-deja.com
I am basically looking for a solution to a similar problem. What we
are experiencing, is we have a MDI application and the forms have a lot
of components on them. So just opening the forms in Delphi, causes us
to run out of resources.
What is happening is that each of these components is using a Windows
handle. And since we have so many components on our forms, we using up
all of the resources. This is why there was a component limit in
Delphi 1.0 imposed by Windows 3.1. However, some components use less
handles than others. For example, a TLabel uses none and TStringList
uses a lot. I have seen a list somewhere, which describes which
components are the biggestest offenders. And that is what I am
currently trying to find. So good luck and hope this helps you.
In article <7tggm0$6u...@forums.borland.com>,
"M Tuttle" <stwi...@networksplus.net> wrote:
> Greetings All,
>
> If I am posting this in the wrong NG, please direct me where to post.
>
> My problem: With this fast new computer, I still do no have enough
system
> resources to develope using Delphi 4.
>
> I am out the end of my rope and don't know what to do.
>
> I am currently developing with Delphi 4.03 on a brand new Compaq 5726
> computer.
> 500mhz Pentium III with integrated 512KB Pipeline burst cache.
> 160MB 100MHz SyncDRAM memory.
> 19GB UltraDMA Hard Drive.
> 6X DVD-ROM with MPEG2
> 1.5MB Max Digital DSL Modem.
> S3 Savage 4 3D Graphics 8MB Video Memory.
> Windows 98 version 2
>
> I have contacted Compaq technical support twice on this issue. The
first
> time they had me go to run | msconfig and remove most of the items on
the
> Startup tab and they also had me defrag my disc (Yes, even on a brand
new
> machine). This indeed gave me more system resources, but not
enough. The
> second time I called they told me to add more RAM. However I told
them that
> the first tech support person said that more memory does not equal
more
> system resources. (DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS?, I do because I started
out with
> 96MB and added 64MB more with no change in system resource, but boy
does
> this puppy fly) Then the second support person suggested that I ask
on this
> NG to see if anyone else has had a problem with Compaq and Delphi,
> suggesting that maybe they needed to make changes to their SoftBios.
>
> Heres what happens:
> 1) Fresh boot, open Resource Meter. It shows System 92%, User 92%,
GDI 95%
> This is great!
>
> 2) Open Delphi 4.03 to a new blank project. It now shows System 53%,
User
> 65%, GDI 53% Yikes!
>
> 3) Open my current project. It now shows System 40%, User 56%, GDI
40% My
> project current has two forms showing. I go to my main form and
place (1)
> break point.
>
> 4) Compile and run. It now shows System 13%, User 42%, GDI 13% I am
now
> operating in the red zone of the Resource Meter.
>
> 5) Open a secondary form in my running App. It now shows System 7%,
User
> 40%, GDI 7% and then I receive an error dialog [Low Resources] Ninety
> percent or more of your system resource are in use. To free up system
> resources, quit any program that you are not using. If you do not,
your
> computer may stop responding. I then click ok and shut down.
>
> QUESTIONS:
> 1) Does anyone else have this kind of problem. Could someone else
using
> Delphi 4.03 please share there resource meter with me.
>
> 2) Is this a Delphi problem or a Compaq SoftBios problem?
>
> 3) Could this be caused by third party component? (Just grabbing here)
>
> 4) What is the correct way to Add more system resources?
>
> Thanks all that reply.
>
> Mike
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rudy Velthuis
>For example, a TLabel uses none and TStringList
>uses a lot. I have seen a list somewhere, which describes which
>components are the biggestest offenders. And that is what I am
>currently trying to find. So good luck and hope this helps you.
Do you mean you store window handles in a string list? Why not just
store the objects and set their handles to nil. You can restore the
handle with HandleNeeded as soon as you need one again.
--
Rudy Velthuis
alan stott
Rudy Velthuis <rvel...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:eI0LOAxrqy9aw6...@4ax.com...
A simple Delphi 1 form will run out of resources if it contains 200 or 300
edit boxes and nothing else.
I don't understand your last comment about storing handles in a string
list - I just place edit boxes onto notebook pages and then the problem
occurs if too many of the pages are visited by the user.
I need to keep the edit boxes available because I use the text in them, I do
not store it elsewhere.
I can run several realisations of my Delphi program on my windows 98 system
and each runs out of resources separately. i.e.. it is not the computer
that runs out or windows 98 that runs out, but it is the resources available
to each realisation of the program.
How is this and what can I do to make my program not run out of rescues.
This must be a widespread problem because today is the first time I have
looked for a solution and here you are with the same problem on the same
day!
Is there an answer - I do hope so.
Best regards
Alan