C# for Win32?

[Andrew Clark]

Has there been any discussion about the creation of a native Win32 version
of the C# compiler? I've been looking for a solution that allows the
creation of 'standard' executables but could also work under .NET. There
are still huge performance advantages to a 'real' .exe, not to mention the
memory requirements required by the .NET runtime. I've used C++ Builder,
Java and C# for years, but I've started using Delphi because of its ability
to generate a native .exe and .NET code from the same code base (the only
language that I know that can do that). I really think that C# is the best
language available right now, but the fact that it can only generate .NET
code makes it an unacceptable solution for some of the projects that we work
on. It seems like Borland is in a unique position to be able to generate
Win32 and .NET code from the same code base, since it already has a compiler
(Delphi) that does just that. Delphi seems like a good language, but it
doesn't have anywhere close to the level of support in the development
community that C# does. The three 'big' languages right now (C++/C#/Java)
all are very similar in their structure and layout, and trivial to move
between and learn for developers. Delphi is different enough that it
requires some rethinking and restructuring (why is there a semi-colon
between parameter declarations, why do I have to declare a method twice in
each unit, oops I put the function return type before the function instead
of after it). I would pay (hundreds of dollars) extra for a C# compiler
that generates Win32 code and I'm sure that there are other people that feel
the same way. Doesn't the C# compiler generate intermediate code that is
compatible with the same Delphi back-end that generates .NET code? Couldn't
it be modified to generate assembly the same way that the Delphi back end
does for Win32 code? I'm sure that I'm oversimplifying things (delegates,
Object vs. TObject, auto-boxing come to mind), but it would be great! It
would be the ultimate solution for Windows (and Linux/Kylix?) - there would
be tremendous reason for developers to stop using Visual Studio and start
using Borland solutions, where there might not have been reason in the past.

[Marc Rohloff [TeamB]]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:00:23 -0600, Andrew Clark wrote:

> Has there been any discussion about the creation of a native Win32 version
> of the C# compiler?

No

--
Marc Rohloff [TeamB]
marc rohloff -at- myrealbox -dot- com

[Joanna Carter [TeamB]]

"Andrew Clark" <andre...@verizon.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
4554f674$1...@newsgroups.borland.com...

| There are still huge performance advantages to a 'real' .exe

Well designed .NET 2.0 code performs very favourably compared with "native"
apps; mainly because, after JITting the progam *is* native code and can
sometimes even be faster.

Certainly programs that abuse reflection will seem sluggish but there are
common-sense techniques that can avoid these "speed traps".

| not to mention the memory requirements required by the .NET runtime

Compared with the memory requirements of the Win32 runtime, AKA the Windows
APIs ?

The biggest problems with trying to achieve single codebase apps in Delphi
include: the difference in memory management and the difference in interface
handling including management of object and interface refcounting, something
that is no problem in a GCed environment.

Joanna

--
Joanna Carter [TeamB]
Consultant Software Engineer

[Francois PIETTE [ICS - MidWare]]

> I've started using Delphi because of its ability to generate a native .exe
> and .NET code from the same code base

Right !

> Delphi seems like a good language, but it doesn't have anywhere close to
> the level of support in the development community that C# does.

I don't agree with that. You probably missed something in your search. The
Delphi community is really large, alive and excellent quality. You can find
almost anything you need. There are thousands of websites, blogs, component
repositories, open source projects, mailing lists, newsgroups,...

--
francoi...@overbyte.be
The author for the freeware multi-tier middleware MidWare
The author of the freeware Internet Component Suite (ICS)
http://www.overbyte.be

[OD]

Francois PIETTE [ICS - MidWare] a écrit :

> I don't agree with that. You probably missed something in your search. The
> Delphi community is really large, alive and excellent quality. You can find
> almost anything you need. There are thousands of websites, blogs, component
> repositories, open source projects, mailing lists, newsgroups,...

C# community is far wider now than the delphi one has never been... You
have to look forward and not behind you...

I'm not sure old "tips and tricks" you can find on the web can be a
serious reason to go on with delphi in the future...

Delphi resources on the web are old now...
What can be the value of Torry's or DSP little VCL components face to
the future that will use XAML, what can be the value of dbExpress or
IBX tricks when the future is ADO.NET, how a Websnap paper can help you
when the future is ASP.NET ?

You have to face the truth : world has changed, has it did when we
switched from DOS to Windows. And all oldies are now belonging to the
past, unfortunately it seems Delphi/vcl too...

--
OD

[Francois PIETTE [ICS - MidWare]]

> Francois PIETTE [ICS - MidWare] a écrit :
>> I don't agree with that. You probably missed something in your search.
>> The Delphi community is really large, alive and excellent quality. You
>> can find almost anything you need. There are thousands of websites,
>> blogs, component repositories, open source projects, mailing lists,
>> newsgroups,...
>
> C# community is far wider now than the delphi one has never been... You
> have to look forward and not behind you...

You are simply wrong.
But this is not the place to discuss this topic.
And by the way, it would be much better to post using your real name:
Olivier Dahan.