Revelation Class This Wednesday
Matthew Genzlinger
Dear Friends,
This is a reminder that we are having a class this Wednesday, February 17th, at 7:30pm. Read Revelation chapter 7. If you would like you can go to our website and read some passages from the Apocalypse Revealed that explain this chapter: http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html
WARNING: We will be having bad news during this class for those who think they may be literally among the 144,000 who will make it to the new heaven. Sorry. See passage below. - Matthew
"From what has been said it may be seen, that by "one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed," and by "twelve thousand out of each tribe," is not to be understood that so many were sealed and elected out of the tribes of Israel, but all who are in the truths of doctrine from the good of love from the Lord. This is what is signified in general by "the twelve tribes of Israel," and also by "the Lord's twelve apostles"; but, in particular, some truth from good is signified by each tribe, and by each apostle. But the signification of each particular tribe shall be explained presently. Since the twelve tribes signify all the truths of doctrine from the good of love from the Lord, they also signify all things of the church; on which account the twelve tribes of Israel represented the church, as did also the twelve apostles....From what has been said it may now be evident, that by "one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, twelve thousand out of each tribe," are not meant so many in number of the Jews and Israelites, but all who are of the New Christian Heaven, and the New Church, who will be in truths of doctrine from the good of love through the word from the Lord." (AR 348)
Matthew Genzlinger
Hello all,
We have class tomorrow night (March 3rd) at 7:30pm on Revelation chapter 8. You can go to the following link to find readings from the Apocalypse Revealed on this chapter:
http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html
This chapter is about the sounding of the first four trumpets. What's really interesting is that the Writings say this chapter is specifically about the Last Judgment on the "reformed" churches - or those in faith alone. Read this passage below and notice how there are many different reformed churches, but they all agree about faith alone. We'll be talking in part about why faith alone is so bad and how we can avoid it in our own lives.
Hope to see you tomorrow,
Matthew
"Here, by "trumpets" the same thing is signified as by "sounding," because they sounded with them, and by "sounding with trumpets" is signified to call together upon solemn occasions, which were various; in this case, to explore and discover the quality of those who are in faith alone, thus the quality of those who are at this day of the churches of the Reformed. It should be known, that the church in the Reformed world is at this day divided into three, from the three leaders, Luther, Calvin, and Melancthon, and that these three churches differ in various things; but in this article, that man is justified by faith without the works of the law, they all agree, which is remarkable." (AR 391)
Rob Simons
I probably won’t be able to make it (again), but I’m very interested in this topic. Matthew, can you share with us what the language of a “faith alone” person would be? I’ve struggled with this concept as most of my protestant friends would say that while faith is what saves, it’s assumed that if you have faith, you also walk the talk. Obviously, the language matters and there have been some catastrophic examples of “faith” without works, but to the average protestant, do you think they truly separate faith from charity?
rob
Joan Lynch
I dittto your experience with my Protestant friends. I'll be
interested in Matthew's response.
Joan
Matthew Genzlinger
I'm just running off, so I'll be interested in my response tomorrow too : ). Off the top of my head, the chapter itself I think answers this question in part. By exploring those of the reformed churches at the time of the Last Judgment the whole point was that the Lord was revealing who was truly in a LIFE of faith alone. In other words, who just had an incorrect idea about the importance of faith and charity verses who had actually lived a life of faith alone by excusing their evils and not living a life of love and charity. The chapter and readings from AR talk a lot about those who don't just have an incorrect idea, but those who are interiorly evil (see a couple passages below about this from the AR reading). And remember, that the whole point of only the Lamb being able to open the scroll with the seven seals is that ONLY THE LORD can really know the interior state of anyone. So I guess my first response would simply be that the whole point was to figure out who in the churches of the reformed were interiorly evil and who simply had bad ideas but were in a life of love and charity and so could be "saved".
Interestingly I seem to remember a passage somewhere that states that the theologians of the day could not get around saying that good works were needed. In other words, they knew that they couldn't get away with saying that you could live a life of evil and still go to heaven. So they came up with the whole idea of faith alone being saving, but that you live a life of good works AFTER you have been saved - you are then held by Christ in His goodness. From the theological point of view the Writings point out that this is still faith alone. Again theologically, they would say that faith alone is saving and that doing good does nothing for your salvation.....but....once you have been "saved" and have confessed that Jesus died for your sins you will end up living a life of good. I'll try to find the passage for tomorrow. Again, just a doctrinally incorrect point that can be corrected in the next life with any protestant as long as in actuality they are living a good life and shunning evils as sins (following the 10 Commandments).
Matthew
"They who separate faith from charity, not only in doctrine but also in life, in the spiritual world pass the time in a desert, where there is not even grass." (AR 401)
"A Christian man has spiritual life from no other source than from the truths of the Word, for in them there is life; but when the truths of the Word are falsified, and man understands and views them according to the falsities of his religion, then spiritual life with him is extinguished. The reason is, because the Word communicates with heaven, therefore when it is read by man, the truths therein ascend into heaven, and the falsities to which truths are adjoined or conjoined, tend towards hell, whence there is a rending asunder, whereby the life of the Word is extinguished. But this is the case only with those who confirm falsities by the Word, but not with those who do not confirm them. I have seen such rendings asunder, and have heard the noise like that of wood split by the fire on a hearth." (AR 411)
"But those have falsities from evils, who do not regard evils as sins; and still more those who, by reasonings from the natural man, and more still from the Word, confirm with themselves that evils are not sins." (AR 413)
Tom & Rachel David
Interesting - I just read this article yesterday:
http://killingthebuddha.com/mag/dogma/heresy-is-a-cradle/
and it contained this passage:
"The controversy that brought about Anne Hutchinson’s expulsion from Boston revolved around questions that had been roiling Christianity since its beginnings: Did good works play any role in one’s salvation, or was salvation something unmerited and unearned, a gift freely bestowed by God through Christ? If human beings are so steeped in sin that only Christ can redeem them, do they cease to be human when and if they’re saved? Since obedience to the law doesn’t earn one grace, does breaking the law cause grace to be forfeited?
Those who answer this last question in the negative are called Antinomians. The word (which means “against the law”) was coined by Martin Luther to describe the errors of his student Johannes Agricola, who argued that believing Christians might abandon every scruple without any risk to their souls. “Art thou steeped in sin, an adulterer or a thief?” he [Agricola] asked. “If thou believest, thou art in salvation. All who follow Moses [in obeying the Ten Commandments] must go to the Devil.”
Tom