Faith Alone?

[Rob Simons]

Friends,

 

I hope to join you in this Wednesday class, but I’m afraid I will have less than perfect attendance as I try to consolidate my travel schedule to the middle of the week.  However, I am going to try to keep up on the reading and would like to participate in discussions.  Matthew, could you please add me to the book-of-revelation-class google group?

 

One thought from the reading Matthew sent out was this.  In the following opening paragraph, I was struck by the last sentence:

 

THE FAITH OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW CHURCH, IN ONE UNIVERSAL IDEA, is this, that the Lord from eternity, who is Jehovah, came into the world that He might subjugate the hells, and glorify His Human; and that without this no mortal could be saved; and that they are saved who believe in Him.

 

What does it mean that those are saved who believe in Him?   The writing are very clear that there is grave danger in a faith alone perspective.  As we learn time and time again, Faith without Charity is not real faith.  This “universal” paragraph seems to emphasize the faith as the saving ingredient and I’d be interested in any thoughts on why it is presented this way?

 

Best,

Rob  Simons

 

 

[Matthew Genzlinger]

Dear All,

You can now go to our website (http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html) to get two things:

1. A summary of each verse of chapter 2 along with important/interesting quotes from the Apocalypse Revealed.  This document also has a memorable relation at the end of it that I would suggest you all read.
2. A document that I will add to that has notes on the first four churches in Revelation chapter 2.

 

Lots in this chapter that I’m still trying to digest!  Note that each of the seven churches represents a different kind of person who can come into the New Church, which is represented by the Holy City New Jerusalem.  Note that to do this they all must approach the Lord and repent from their evils.

 

It’s very interesting that the Lord is presented to each church in a different way – at the beginning of each church a different part of the description of the Lord from Revelation chapter 1 is mentioned.  Also notice how each church has something good about them and something that they must repent of.  Each is then told what will happen if they don’t repent and of the gift they will receive if they do.

 

Next class is on Wednesday, October 14^th, at 7:30pm.  Good luck!  We’ll work our way through this together at class,

 

Matthew

 

 

[Matthew Genzlinger]

One thought is that the passages goes on to say, “To believe in Him is to have confidence that He saves, and because no one can have confidence but he who lives well, therefore this also is meant by believing in Him.”  Later he seems to tie this in with living a life for charity.

I think we may find some answers to your question in the readings and class for Chapter 2.  This chapter speaks a lot about faith alone; interestingly it also warns one of the churches about charity alone!  The whole point of the New Church is that marriage between charity and a true faith in the Lord God Jesus Christ as the One God of heaven and earth.  Both together make for a true “member” of the New Church.  Perhaps the passage you bring up seems to focus more on the “faith” part because this is where we naturally begin as we only gradually begin to act from a true love for the Lord and charity to the neighbor – we need to first approach the Lord and believe He can help us before He then actually helps us by removing evils and implanting love and charity.

 

Just some thoughts.  I’ll be interested to see what others think.

 

Matthew

 

 

---

[Kenneth Holbert]

Hello Rob,

 

Just because you are joining the class doesn't mean that you have to start by showing off with such an impressive question (with a quote from the readings)!!  You'll probably want to sit at the front of the class!!! (-:

 

It will be great seeing you.

 

K

[Rob Simons]

How do I respond to that :-)
LoL. Hope to join class, but if not I'll be glad to chime in.

Cheers,
Rob

---

From: book-of-reve...@googlegroups.com <book-of-reve...@googlegroups.com>
To: book-of-reve...@googlegroups.com <book-of-reve...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed Oct 07 21:46:28 2009
Subject: Re: Faith Alone?

[Matthew Genzlinger]

This is just a reminder that our class on Revelation chapter 2 is tonight at 7:30pm.

[Matthew Genzlinger]

Thanks for a good class last night.  You can now go to our website to get the handout from last nights class.  It’s basically passages that you have already from the other chapter 2 document, but this time arranged according to the four churches we talked about last night.  Next time we move on to the last three churches in chapter 3.  Enjoy - http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html

 

Matthew

 

[Matthew Genzlinger]

You can now go to our website to get Apocalypse Revealed readings for chapter 3.  Be sure to read the memorable relation at the end!  The notes on the 7 churches document has also been updated to include the last 3 churches - http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html

 

There’s some great stuff in this reading about the Lord reaching out to us through His Word!

 

Matthew

 

[Matthew Genzlinger]

Hi All,

 

I’ve been going back and forth, but I think I need to cancel class tonight.  I’ve been coming down with something and I’m now sitting in my office with a bad headache, fever, and cough.  I haven’t started snorting like a pig yet….but who knows : ).  I know that Tom and Kate and George and Wenda can’t make it tonight as well.  So I think what I’ll do is send an email out sometimes soon which some thoughts about chapter 3.  Next time we can touch on chapter three, but I think we should continue on to chapter 4.  Let me look at a couple things, but I think I might suggest we do chapter 4 and 5 together.

 

Matthew

[sarah moore]

I have my fingers crossed for you - I hope you feel better soon and that you haven't picked up the swine flu!  Take care of yourself and if there's anything that you and the family need, just let me know.   Sarah --- On Wed, 10/28/09, Matthew Genzlinger <pas...@newchurchconcord.org> wrote:

[Matthew Genzlinger]

Hi everybody,

 

Sorry this is a little late but you can now go to our website and get the passages from Apocalypse Revealed for chapter 4 - http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html

 

Class this Wednesday should be a good one.  Chapter 4 has some interesting stuff about judgment and the Word.  This is the chapter where John sees a throne in heaven surrounded by 24 elder and 4 living creatures that looked like a lion, calf, man, and flying eagle.  They each had 6 wings filled from within with eyes - an image that people have struggled to understand for thousands of years.  Now we have the answer!  Below are two passages to get you thinking.  Home to see you on Wednesday,

 

Matthew

 

"He who does not know the spiritual sense of the Word, and at the same time the genuine truths of the church, may believe, that when the Last Judgment shall come, the Lord will sit upon a throne, and that there will be other judges also upon thrones around Him. But he who knows the spiritual sense of the Word, and at the same time the genuine truths of the church, knows that the Lord will not then sit upon a throne, and that neither will there be other judges about Him; and further, that neither will the Lord judge anyone to hell, but that the Word will judge everyone, the Lord moderating that all things may be done according to justice." (AR 233)

 

" By "six" is signified all as to truth and good, for six is composed of "three" and "two" multiplied together, and by "three" is signified all as to truth (n. 505), and by "two" all as to good (n. 762). By "wings" are signified powers, because by them birds lift themselves up, and wings with birds are in the place of arms with men, and by "arms" are signified powers. Since by "wings" are signified powers, and each animal had six wings, it is evident, from what has been said above, what kind of power is signified by the wings of each, namely, that by "the wings of the lion" is signified the power of fighting against evils and falsities from hell; which power is of the Divine truth of the Word from the Lord. That by "the wings of the calf" is signified the power of affecting minds, for the Divine truth of the Word affects those who read it as holy. That by "the six wings of the man" is signified the power of being wise as to what God is, and what is of God, for this is properly man's in reading the Word: and that by "the wings of the eagle" is signified the power of knowing truth and good, and thereby acquiring intelligence for oneself." (AR 245)

 

 

[Matthew Genzlinger]

This is just a reminder that we are meeting this Wednesday at 7:30pm to discuss Revelation chapter 5.  I've been busy enough that I'm just now putting together the handout with passages from Apocalypse Revealed.  I hope to have them up on the website either this evening or tomorrow morning.  This is a great and vital chapter - the Lamb and the scroll.  Hope to see you Wednesday! - Matthew

[Matthew Genzlinger]

Sorry for the lateness of this , but you can now go to our website and get the passages from Apocalypse Revealed on chapter 5.  I would encourage you all to read the memorable relation at the end!  See you Wednesday. - Matthew

 

http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html

 

 

[Matthew Genzlinger]

I just wanted to touch base with people about class tonight.  It's obviously easy for me to walk across the street regardless....but I wanted to get input from the rest of you - don't know what it's like in Grafton and what it will be like this evening trying to get out of the city.  Are people confident about making it today with the weather or are there concerns?  One option could be to have class next Wednesday, December 16th.  I'm happy either way.  Please respond with your opinion.

 

Matthew

[Hickey, Kathleen M]

Hi – I’m likely not attending this evening due to health (battling something); in Worcester area this am my commute is generally 10 minutes and today it was 70 minutes; now it is icing – not sure what it will be like tonight.

I’m available next Wed if group decides to hold class then.

Thanks

[Matthew Genzlinger]

It looks like Kate can't make it tonight, but I think we're going to go ahead anyway.  Most don't seem keen on meeting later as it is getting closer to Christmas.  So we ARE meeting tonight at 7:30pm.  Sorry to miss you Kate. - Matthew

[Matthew Genzlinger]

Am I keeping you all on your toes? : )

 

Sorry about the confusion but now it seems that it will work best for people to meet NEXT WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 16TH.

 

See you then - Matthew

[Kenneth Holbert]

Hi  Matthew,

 

In the confusion of the phone call, I forgot that I have a family therapy session next Weds at about 630 so will not be able to attend the class.  I promise to do all of my reading and will catch the group in the New Year.

 

Thanks,

 

Ken

[Matthew Genzlinger]

This is just a reminder that we have a "Book of Revelation" class tonight at 7:30pm.  We will be discussing chapter 5.  Hope to see you there!

 

Matthew

[Matthew Genzlinger]

Sorry for the late hour, but you can now go to our website and get the AR reading for our class tomorrow night: http://www.newchurchconcord.org/programs/programs-adults.html

 

We will be talking about chapter six which includes the opening of the first six seals and the four horses of the apocalypse.  Let's just say that if you are planning to ride a horse to class tomorrow, make sure it's a white one; red, black, or pale would not be recommended!

 

Matthew

[Matthew Genzlinger]

We're scheduled for our Book of Revelation class tomorrow (Wednesday) on chapter 7.  However it looks like we may have a pretty significant snow storm.  Please check your email before you come in case we decide to cancel.  If we do have to cancel I'm hoping that we can meet next Wednesday instead, especially because in 2 weeks I'll be away for minister's meetings in Bryn Athyn.

 

We've got a good chapter coming up (7).  Below is a passage from the Apocalypse Revealed explaining why the Last Judgment occurred when it did.

 

Matthew

 

"It is to be known that the Last Judgment takes place when the evil are multiplied below the heavens in the world of spirits, to such a degree that the angels in the heavens cannot subsist in their state of love and wisdom; for in this case they have no support and no foundation. And as this is caused by the multiplication of the evil below, therefore the Lord, in order to preserve their state, flows in with His Divine more and more strongly, and this continues until they can no longer be preserved by any influx, without a separation of the evil below from the good.  This is effected by the letting down and drawing near of the heavens, and thence by a stronger influx, until at length the evil cannot endure it; and then the evil flee away, and cast themselves into hell." (AR 343)

[Ken Holbert]

I know that Katie will not be able to be at the class tomorrow regardless. I am not sure if I can come next week but will check my work schedule.

 

Nice quote!

 

Ken

[Tom & Rachel David]

Tom does have a nasty cold,  isn't feeling too sociable, and we would  hate to share it with everyone.  If we were able to re-schedule class it would be better for us.

Rachel