I'm saddened we're losing BETSI

[Lenore Berry-Zaragosa]

This has been the best Etsy editing software. Losing it is like the end of an era. I wish amends can be made to keep this open. Lots of users feel this way.

[blugrinCo]

Hi Lenore, 

Thanks you for your support. All is not lost yet. 

Etsy have given the users access to BETSI until May 18th. We are trying to open a dialogue with them to resolve this. 

As we're talking to the Etsy Legal team we can't comment any further at this stage but I will keep everyone up to date without breaching any confidentiality - we don't want to be seen breaking the Etsy TOUs. 

We are hoping to get a positive outcome for all.

Graeme

[Lenore Berry-Zaragosa]

Thank you Graeme for your response. I'm praying for this. This was not just a software but a revolution.

Lenore

[Frances Gillespie]

Has tools4etsy also been caught up in this? I notice it's gone now as well. This was an invaluable tool for me for viewing all previous feedback left by a buyer. As soon as I get a sale, I run the buyers ID through it so I can see what kind of person I'm working with.

[blugrinCo]

Yes, it too is caught in this along with BETSI LITE. BETSI is still active for sellers who are currently using the app. All apps & tools were supposed to remain active until May 18th. We have contacted Etsy and ask why this was not the case and hope that they are going to correct this. We also hope that we can resolve this and resume normal activity well before this date.

[Linda Loca]

Good luck Graeme! As someone who had one of my shops shut down without warning and labored for 8 days to produce a 52 page document for the Etsy Gestapo, aka "Integrity," only to be opened again with no real explanation, I empathize with your position. I can only hope they are more responsive to you, since it averaged 24 hours in between correspondence with my "caseworker."

All the best to you and your family, and I hope you can get this resolved quickly.

Linda

[DavidK]

They way this was handled by Etsy is terrible. Hopefully they will come to their senses.

[pinkbird...@gmail.com]

I normally don't care too much when Etsy makes their changes, but this one has left me terribly upset.  It's such a wonderful program and run so well, I don't see anything replacing it right now.  I was just about to reactivate my subscription to edit my tags for Mother's Day too.  Now I will have to waste so much time doing it.  And forget when I go on vacation this summer.  No way I'm putting my vacation announcement in each of my hundreds of listings.

Let us know if there's something we can do to help the cause.

[lesli...@gmail.com]

Good luck to you, Graeme.  I hope you can get things worked out.  I've always rolled with the changes on Etsy, but this one has me livid beyond words for so many different reasons.  You have a lot of support behind you.  

[crennier23185]

Just wanted to let you know how invaluable I have found BETSI.  I am so upset about Etsy's decision, and do hope they will reverse it.

Thank you Graeme for your wonderful customer service and amazing product.  You have made my business so much easier to run over the last few years.

You have a true talent for what you do, and I am still amazed at how beautifully constructed your site was, and the ease of use.

You are truly a brilliant man and I appreciate all you have done for me and the many other Etsy sellers.    

Thank you again from the bottom of my heart.  Hang in there.  I do hope Etsy will see that your site truly was beyond compare.

Thinking about you and your family at this difficult time.  

Warm Regards,

Colette

Ever Blooming Originals 

[Jane Weeks]

Like pinkbird, I was going to reactivate my subscription soon to manage some tags. Etsy has become so high-handed; they don't seem to realize that their cavalier attitude tarnishes their own reputation. I guess it's now all about future stockholders, not the Etsy community that brought their success. I sincerely hope that you'll be able to work this "problem" out.

[Anastasia Savenko]

This is just so bizarre, good luck Graeme and thank you for a wonderful tool and great customer service.

Will be checking for updates.

I think the way this case was handled is just bad business on Etsy part. 

[annika schauer]

As a fellow Etsy API app developer, I'm deeply saddened to see this happened to a respected and well-loved member of our community.  Graeme, I hope that you find a quick and amicable solution to this dispute, and continue to serve Etsy sellers well, for many years to come.

Best,

Annika Schauer

[Kelly Neddo]

I have been silently reading the google etsy developers group for years - I have learned SO much and became interested in so many things like "seo, data mining" (no I am not good or smart just now show an interest in learning again after 2 decades with my head in the sand) and I like learning all because of Graeme. - But unfortunately me boosting his ego is not going to produce sales for him and Jacinta - so what can we do folks? For me it's the bigger picture with how etsy handled this, being a forum mute for 4 years, and not able to get "true etsy support" by writing in. Graeme WAS the support for me.  I am not happy because I HAVE been in his position when I was muted, For a year from 2011-2012 it was a nightmare to get help from peers. People don't want to speak to forum mutes. I managed to make my shops succeed (I nearly doubled my sales in 2014 because of Graeme)

- I think this is just the first of many third party apps to go. I'd like to know if etsy really is turning into an amazon confined model marketplace? If they did away with outright expense software I literally would be out of work. I could never possibly work, fill orders, create, answer and DO accounting I sometimes see hundred of small charges fees etc daily in my expense software. That is just the one shop. It is HUMANLY impossible to handle the workload and do one more thing for me.

- when have you ever really seen amazon or ebay advertise third party apps? they don't use them. They use their own built in "working" seller tools but etsy has not given us these working tools / it's all broken or working sometimes.. it damages each sellers reputation each time we rely on an an eclusive etsy feature such as "alerts for convos" on etsy app. How many lost sales we have probably experienced because of broken site features that reflected negatively on our shop(s) buyer's don't care who is to blame for technical errors. They want the product. Not a speech about how they missed the etsy convo.

I am so upset to watch this go down. I sadly have to admit I do not think that etsy will do anything to resolve this issue. They rarely do. Graeme is one of the very few people in this world I would be willing to be unemployed for. I have been focusing on my own website over the past year and finally seeing payoff. Etsy has no soul without Graeme and Jacinta. Not for me anyway. Not as someone muted running a very large supply shop.

It seems to be a very pay to play system now with broken tools, rolling servers, regional blackouts, and a broken phone with zero customer service. :(

Someone in the etsy forums yesterday said it best in a response to another user asking why this happened "because he called a spade a spade"

DID anyone else notice the variations bug is back for the listing manager? how ironic that blugrin gets their variations to adapt within three hours but etsy cannot fix the issue in the past 3 weeks!

[Starlite]

I sincerely hope that Graeme decides on building a competing selling marketplace platform - I could easily see a rush of supporters moving over in droves! This is my hope as my hopes with Etsy are lost. I now know they are simply in it for corporate investors and more corporate greed will continue to make it impossible to succeed. Etsy is nothing at all like it was when Rob Kalin dreamed it.

[Mia Hinman]

Graeme,

I am so sorry about this. I have loved Besti and I am not sure I will be able to run my store with out her. I have over 1770 listing and I have new products to post that I will not post now as I am not sure how I will be able to manage them without Besti.  I am hoping that this will get resolved.  

Please let us know if a petition to Etsy for us the users would help. I think we would all be willing to start one and sign it.  You have been invaluable to many of us.  If we can do anything for your family at this time please let us know.  You have my support and prayers at this very difficult time.

Efthemia (Mia) Hinman

[Kelly Neddo]

starlite I so agree with you - I would be his first paying customer.

[Greydog]

I do not use Betsi, but am so impressed with the way they have started & grown this business.  Like Starlight, I would jump ship in a skinny minute for a new handmade site with integrity.  I jumped off the Ebay ship in 2008 & would happily do it again.  So would MANY others.  We built Etsy from a tiny little site & we can "build" another site with our support. 

Can you do it Graeme?  I am guessing there is a whole army of computer whizzes out there ready to help you,and a bigger army of shops ready to join you & support you.  We are just waiting :)

[Starlite]

I am a realist and unfortunately the direction the big E has taken...is no turning back :( They have lots of corporate greed hunger and the integrity of that marketplace has completed deteriorated - it's not even a shadow of the vision it once was. That said...the biggest slap in the face would definitely be a mass exodus to a venue/platformed created by Graeme. Sellers have long been talking about alternatives but none are very viable - I have complete confidence that with the tremendous support that Graeme has, it would be a true success and what we have long been waiting for! Just my own thoughts and opinions :)

[Ruth Melamed]

Graeme  I am so sorry that you have hit the Etsy brick wall, and hope that everything can be resolved eventually.

 I am sure you have a family to support and this seems a very ugly way to handle both your service and also thousands of Etsy clients.

You have provided the most fantastic service, and have always been most helpful, so frankly i have no idea how I am going to manage without Betsi.

Etsy's own new system has far from all the answers.

Keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well for you and your family.

I have every intention in keeping my subscription open until May.

[midorialexandros]

Super sad by this as well. I really hope that this gets resolved and Betsi is not lost.

[blugrinCo]

BETSI is still working for existing users.

Well, Etsy did change their minds about BETSI LITE and Tools4Etsy - their API access was reinstated. My guess is that the May 18th deadline has not been lifted yet but we will let you know either way once Etsy replies.

[Andrew Leonard]

Starlite - I agree about a new marketplace - I am sure funding would not be a problem, as many people would contribute through crowd funding.

[Mina Morgan]

I hope things are able to be resolved. I know the community at large will be very angry and sad if Etsy chooses to not allow Blugrin to create apps for Etsy. 

[samiam]

So, two suggestions...

I am going to be moving things to Shopify...I would love to have something like Betsi there. Some Shopify apps are free and some paid. I would pay to use your app over there.

I wonder if you can do a gofundme or kickstarter to help get you through this and have you considered your own selling venue. You rock!

[b bab]

I am beefing up my Zibbet and my website since this happened. I generally roll with the punches but Etsy has crossed the line.

[samiam]

Zibbet has so many issues of it's own and is a big "no" for me. Same with artfire.

It is better to use a standalone if you drive your own traffic. That's why I'm going with shopify.

[sarahgr...@gmail.com]

I am so tired of Etsy's megalomania and dictatorship !! Every decision they make is a new disappointment. The way they choose to (mis)communicate is beyond hypocrit, not to mention the obvious censorship.

Shopify is a really good platform. You'll need to devote a huge part of your time to promoting your shop, but it's totally worth it.

I make about the same monthly revenue on Etsy and on Shopify and the Shopify bill costs half the Etsy bill. They have really good apps, too.. I'm sure it would be interesting for many to have an equivalent to Betsi on Shopify. As far as I know, there isn't something similar at the moment.

[For Handmade]

A lot of people seem to be looking in to Shopify right now. Betsi for Shopify would be awesome.

[DavidK]

I have been prohibited from posting in this thread any longer. https://www.etsy.com/teams/7718/questions/discuss/16128342/page/28
I guess they don't like my support of Graeme.

[DavidK]

They didn't like this:

Post: Etsy doesn't have the brain power in-house to roll out their own version. Have you met Categories?

They said I was criticizing the people of Etsy. You can criticize things, but you can't "make the criticism about the people who built it."  Funny, I thought that read as a criticism of lack of people.

[Anastasia Savenko]

I am at Shopify as well, with your attention to detail you would make a hit app there

[Mary Jansen]

Please build a competing site. Etsy has sold handmade down the river, Zibbet is a mess, Ebay makes my skin crawl, and stand alones are so hard to build up. As a user of your produt, I would be glad to join a true 'little guy' site.
Best wishes.

[Kelly Neddo]

Hi Dave :) I liked the post. Did you get silenced? Are you the other brain in the etsy developer group I have been reading post? Maybe you and Graeme should create the new etsy? I wish it'd happen. I'm ready. I'd donate and and I'd fundraise to get it going. How, I'm not sure but .... No one is smarter than Graeme (other than my dad) of course. How much funding would be a rough estimate for servers etc? Etsy started with one smart man and an awesome vision.

[DavidK]

No, I am not a brain, just a loyal user of BETSI and vocal supporter of Graeme. Just a little too vocal I guess. Yes, I was banished for a week from the forums.

[Kelly Neddo]

:) ah ok. But you agree Graeme would be a great candidate to do this? I think so.

[Gilliauna D]

Dave.... Make sure when you're allowed back on the forums, you watch your step. The same thing happened to me, and on my second misstep (which I had NO idea would be a misstep, as I was helping someone by answering their question on the forums) got me banned from the forums for good in ALL 6 of my Etsy accounts. :(

[blugrinCo]

Hi All, 

Please be careful when posting in the Etsy forums. These are difficult and emotional times for all. We would not like to see any of you be muted by Etsy for speaking out on our behalf.

We are doing our best to talk with Etsy about this matter and still cannot comment due to legal reasons. We appreciate the support and keeping the discussion thread on Etsy alive to help in getting heard by Etsy. We believe, like you, this will help in swaying Etsy's decision.

[nothingbutstring on Etsy]

David, I'm so sorry to hear that you got muted. That is just so unfair.  It just proves the point that Etsy is solely to blame for this fiasco and not Graeme.  I've had to remove myself from the Etsy forums so I wouldn't get muted.  I'm pretty sure I was pretty close to crossing Etsy's imaginary  line a couple of times.

[DavidK]

Yes, I have to be careful now since this was my second offense. My first offense, back when they rolled out Categories, was for saying that North Korean hackers couldn't have messed it up more. I guess I offended Etsy's large North Korean community because they said the same thing, that I disparaged people. It is bad because when you get right down to it, any criticism of Etsy is a critique of their people. The corporate papers that legalize them can't write code or make decisions.

[Bobbie Koriakin]

Hi there,

Just want to add my support ! I am sickened how you all were treated by Etsy.
I'll be watching this group and will reup my subscription to Betsi as soon as possible , if possible.( I was getting ready to do this when all of this happened)

Thanks!

Bobbie

[samiam]

I was taking direct checkout. I turned it off. I'm not rewarding etsy's nasty behavior with processing fees anymore.

I'm working on my storenvy shop today.

I hope this gets worked out for you Graeme. Etsy has always offered a substandard and buggy interface. Despite the huge number of tech people, they can't seem to create anything useful or stable. They tinker with things that don't matter and don't need to be "fixed" and they release just plain bad interface updates.

They clearly have no idea what sellers really need to operate efficiently and they don't listen. They are in a feedback loop and will not accept that they don't have all (or even most or some) of the answers. It is so frustrating.

Again, I would love to have a blugrin storenvy app!!!!! lol

[samiam]

ooppssss I meant SHOPIFY app.....

[BrandNoonan]

I fully agree here. You should be the one to open up the "next Etsy." Plenty of us have been fed up for awhile (the last 18 months, especially) with all the changes that don't benefit the smaller shops. And now 30K of us are losing the ONLY tool that helps us manage our shops. I would pay $75 a year for a new Etsy - one that listens to the customer/shop owner and now the investors. Heck, I would pay more than that and will gladly fund you if you start a kickstarter. Maybe reach out to Amazon or Google and see if they'll help. The problem is, there's nowhere quite like Etsy to jump ship to and I know a LOT of sellers are unhappy. The problem is, we've got nowhere to go…

Someone should step up. There is a huge opportunity here. And I know that if anyone, you could do it!

[Kelly Neddo]

So agree, Graeme knows the crap with zibbet didn't work, and I know artfire is the pits BUT I have complete faith we here all are serious and some very old time sellers dependent on etsys traffic.
BUT we're also are all good with our seo, and have varying computer skills and we're all willing to do our part to get this going.

We the people,

- We know it'd be hard at first and there won't be much traffic, there will be bugs, but there also would be categories that make sense. I'd be so honored to say I got to participate in the beginning of something beautiful like etsy once was.
I know it's not even cutting the service of what graeme may need but I could loan 2000 and recruit at new members.

(Of course I heard the Cha Ching sound as soon as I finished the last sentence.)
I'm not saying I would be brave enough to jump ship completely but I'm more than ready to start pulling my umbilical cord.

[nothingbutstring on Etsy]

Kelly I'm right there with you.  I've tried all the alternatives to Etsy with little to no success, and it wasn't for a lack of trying.  I gave each venue a year, and I either sold nothing at all or just 1 or 2 items.  I'm stuck here at Etsy if I want to make any kind of a living.  If Graeme and Jacinta start up their own site I would sign up in a heart beat. Like you I'm not brave enough to jump ship entirely, but I certainly would give it my all to make the new site work, and then jump ship, LOL

[LiveLongAndProsper]

I've tried other venues besides Etsy but left because they didn't have the features and they were super cumbersome, especially because of the lack of variations. I would almost cringe when I got a sale because I knew the customer didn't leave all the required details.

I'll go wherever it's easiest to edit items...and that would be wherever Graeme is in charge! Etsy just become a lot less workable (or it will in May).

My advice would be to strike while the iron is hot, meaning while everyone is outraged. I'd be willing to help with writing or taking surveys, beta testing, suggested features, writing comments in the crowdfunding pages and making $$ contributions, and spreading the word (which wouldn't be that difficult...a few well placed posts with links in the Etsy forums, and spreading the word on facebook).

Graeme, could you purchase shopping cart software and modify it to have many stores within it? Or would it have to be from scratch?

[LiveLongAndProsper]

Don't forget that there would be a lot of large, successful sellers who would try the new site...people who are already selling well. This is different from the usual random people who try zibbet, etc. (although smaller sellers would try the new site, too). If we could have a way to upload our product via spreadsheet, that would be great. If the fees are anything less than with Etsy, we could pass the savings on to customers, thereby encouraging them to shop there.

[Kelly Neddo]

embarrassing to admit but I was one of the people that set aside the $2500 to buy stock in etsy. I admit I've no clue what that really means, I'm an artist (that can google).

I'd be much happier using this money towards starting up something for graeme. Did anyone else find themselves in a similar thought?
---
Graeme, I hope we are not overwhelming you Planning "the future" on your behalf. As annoying as I can be, the money is yours *when* you need it.

[hanelse]

I joined this group just to lend my support of Betsi and Graeme. That is the only application I have ever used to bulk edit my 100+ listings. If this isn't resolved it's going to be a nightmare. I'm especially worried about the unfair and corporate way the whole situation was handled. So unlike Etsy, in my opinion. I love selling on Etsy, as they seem to be so respectful of their sellers. Now, with this move, they've not only disrespected us by pulling a much needed app, but Graeme, as well, by kicking Besti to the curb. Shame on them. No, really, shame on them.
 
Also, I would pay for a smooth functioning, well designed selling venue, too. I'm a serious full time seller and have been at it for years on Etsy and Ebay. 5 star rating on Etsy, Top Rated Powerseller with 5 star rating on Ebay.

Let us know, Graeme. You have our interest and our support.

[samiam]

Etsy has been doing stuff like this for years. Not kidding. People who have been around from the beginning know that this is just another mess they have created.

[unnamed]

I have over 1000 listings.  I'd be THRILLED to help develop a handmade site.  I wasn't around at the time etsy started but I heard it was actually quite nice.  I long for a handmade site where there is good customer service, good tools, and respect going both ways.  I think a new site with a small per item listing fee and then a reasonable FVF and then a renewing fee that actually puts the renewed item back "up front" would be ideal.  The front page of the new site could be similar to the treasury system which is a great idea as long as it is done fairly.  Perhaps an optional monthly fee for betsi if it is needed.  

I have my fingers and toes crossed that this is the good that will come out of all this seemingly bad.  

[Andrew Leonard]

There is much talk about an alternative to Etsy.

Would it be better if it worked on this basis:

Each member had their own website separate of the new site, but fed in their items via an api.

That way you benefit from having your own independent shop as well as being a member of a "co-operative" website.

There are many "off the shelf" ecommerce systems that one could use: Ecwid is one that springs to mind (quite good monthly fees) that has a good api, as well as shopify.

[thinkum aka snurcher]

Have just posted to the discussion thread on Etsy about this.  I hate being a helpless Etsy user!

[unnamed]

I either read or saw an interview where Kalin started etsy with the idea and then used 50K for the tech development.  Blugrin already has the tech knowledge and development .  

[Janine King]

Just piping in to let Graeme know that he has my heartfelt support.  In all my dealings with you Graeme, I have found you to be a first rate human being as well as a top notch technician. Like many,  I won't be able to manage my store without Betsi. I hope Etsy offers a sweet deal to you to purchase Betsi. You deserve it.  There is no way they could match the product you have given us. Despite this terrible thing that has happened, it must be gratifying to see the support rallying around you and to know how highly we all think of you.  I am keeping you and your family in my prayers. 

[blugrinCo]

Hi All, 

I am listening to everyone with their support and ideas. We spent many years supporting the Etsy seller & developer communities and it is humbling to see it being returned. My wife and I cannot thank you enough for all this support.

Whilst I cannot say much as I am legally bound, we do believe that there is an opportunity to work with Etsy to resolve this quickly. 

Etsy clearly demonstrated this with what happened last month with another Etsy 3rd-party app called Stitchlabs. There was a clear breach and did not "adhere to Etsy’s API Terms of Use" by renewing Listings without Etsy Members authorization - ref: https://www.etsy.com/teams/7720/bugs/discuss/15971314. They were locked out effective immediately, given the chance to address and resolve the violation, and are now back working with the Etsy API. 

It is now with Etsy. We hope that Etsy will respond in a timely fashion and give us equal opportunity, like Stitchlabs, to address any concerns that Etsy may have, and fully activate our services back to their normal operation status.

Graeme

[Janine King]

Fingers crossed!

[samiam]

I do hope you can work this out.

That said, please seriously consider diversifying. This was handled in the worst possible way by etsy. It was heavy handed, impersonal, they implied things about you while at the same time saying they can't say anything. I find the way they handle things incomprehensible. They allow resellers to run rampant and they shut down people like you, handmade sellers and make handmade sellers jump through hoops to prove they are handmade. And this type of stuff has been going on for a very long time. They aren't getting better, they are getting worse.

It is just so unprofessional....

[DavidK]

I am glad to hear that there is still a possibility with Etsy. That way, if you should decide to go forward with an independent venue, we could all still be working while the new one was being developed.

Also...I wrote Etsy support on Friday urging them to do what it takes to keep BETSI. I got a canned response saying that they couldn't comment because it concerned another member's account blah, blah, blah and suggested that I try another app form the app store. I responded that I hadn't asked for a comment from them, but for them to restore BETSI's status. Then I responded to their survey a let them know I didn't appreciate a canned reply that did not address my concerns. I also let them know, as in my original note, that there was not app in Etsy that could replace BETSI.

Good luck Graeme and Jacinta!

[DavidK]

Here is a fine example of how broken Etsy is right now. I was researching a "pink swung vase" this morning and clicked on a photo that looked similar to what I was looking for on Google Images. The photo was from an item listed in Etsy. The landing page in Etsy gave me this...

Darn. No items were found for pink abstract vase.

Let's go look at decorative pillows.

We need a better venue. One that actually helps people find something CLOSE to what they are looking for.

[Kelly Neddo]

David, another reason some have slower sales is the example you gave above, landing on dead links and sneaky redirects are frowned on by Google yet etsy keeps breaking all the rules of SEO to keep us confined in the Amazon like model :(

My shop is doing ok but I still am unhappy bc of the situation. I could make a thousand dollars today I still would not feel warm and fuzzy about etsy. It took me sorting through 22 pages in etsy last night to make a purchase - to find a TRULY handmade Capri pants. I found them made by an Indonesian seller (yes buried I'm sure people can't find her bc of her location) regardless I should have seen the pants much earlier than I did in search. The front page of activewear is full of embellished garbage that say "YOUR TEXT HERE" (nothing against embellishing and rhinestones but come on!)

For those that believe resellers only come from China you are incorrect:( From what I see trying to just "shop on etsy" most resellers are american sweatshop-like sellers gluing rhinestones on something - with very bad feedback.

[Lenore Berry-Zaragosa]

I just looked at Shopify. You can add your own HTML depending which plan is right for you.

[Ann Dillon]

Well I hope it gets resolved for you.

I have been following the discussions and comments and am particularly concerned about Etsy and their marketplace....must be so 

painful for the big shops.

Perhaps as changes/tests/dissatisfaction continues...a long term plan maybe a Kickstarter Campaign to start another market. 

Well timed, well publicized, well funded may be something to plan for in the future. 

Just my little two pennies worth. 

All the best....and seeing the best!

You have to imagine it for it to happen...that is 'image in action'.

[LiveLongAndProsper]

That's an idea, but I'd like to belong to a regular marketplace as well as having my own site. A marketplace is like going to the mall...you're more likely to be seen. That's why you'll see a bunch of gas stations right together. It's better to have a presence "at that intersection in town where people buy gas" rather than to be "that lone gas station on the other side of town." But we can have the best of both worlds, because we're electronic storefronts.

[WallCakes]

I'm not sad, I'm fucking pissed off.

Etsy has no regard for us sellers. Anyone who thinks they do are sadly mistaken. I give them no benefit of the doubt anymore after the things they have done to my personally.

'transparent, humane..." I think not.

[LiveLongAndProsper]

Can you imagine, in some article or somewhere, they refer to Etsy as an ecosystem. I think Godzilla just came and stepped on the ecosystem.

[unnamed]

What really bothers me, besides this stuff with Graeme, is how they are making the etsy site so much less user-friendly.  Every change they've made since about the elimination of the category selection drop down menu besides the search bar has made the site less functional.  The browse thing, ok, whatever, if that's what they'd like, whatever, but why hide the categories?  The forum overhaul is ugly, the purchases page is absolutely ridiculous and maddening with that flipping loading scrolling wait thing repeatedly happening, the convo messages format looks cartoon like with the scrolling bars both ways, the new listing manager which just irritates me because its format is big, ugly and if I want to deactivate a page of listings, how can I do it, and now they've even messed up the stats page, making it smaller and less readable.  Geez, there's even posts in bugs about that and no admin even bothered to chime in to say, it's not a bug.  We've BEGGED them for more variations including the ability to have a text variation, more categories, and instead they give up these other things that we've not asked for and that slow down our ability to run our shops.  NONE of this makes sense to me but oh, doesn't the site look pretty.  They haven't even begun the test thing for removing our banners again either.  And I don't know about anyone else but my sales this year so far are about HALF of what they were last year.  In a general sense, I am really pissed.  All this stupid NONSENSE we have to put up with.  When will OUR needs as sellers be addressed?

[LiveLongAndProsper]

Our needs as sellers will be addressed if/when Graeme decides to take this giant opportunity of a new site; I don't expect much from Etsy. A crowdfunding page wouldn't even need a video or other fancy intro. Probably just a 1-paragraph write-up that can be edited over time...people who will fund it initially already know the issues and won't need a whole song and dance.

One reason I need to keep bulk editing my descriptions is to find ways to beg people to input customization information in a note to the seller, since we only have 2 variations, and no text boxes. Can you imagine a selling site where the buyer has to write a note like that? Ridiculous.

[unnamed]

I know.  I have over 1000 times in my shop.  Most are personalized.  It's difficult, at best.  

[WallCakes]

In reply to someone in the etsy forums, saying only etsy and Graeme know what's going on, Jacinta commented that even Graeme has no idea why they pulled BETSI (etsy is staying tight lipped).

None of this makes sense. Why did they give stitchlabs a chance to rectify the problem, but not BLUGRIN?

[unnamed]

I agree, wall cakes.  It seems so weird that if there was a problem, etsy didn't contact Graeme first so he could correct it.  And why totally pull the plug on his team, forum and convo privileges?  It doesn't make sense.  I am wondering if the technical aspect of betsi had the unintentional potential to glean some sort of confidential etsy info which is why etsy did the sudden "shut this down" thing.  I don't know, I am so illiterate when it comes to technology stuff but something like that, completely unintentional by betsi, was the only reason in my head I could even attempt to imagine why etsy did what they did.  

[LiveLongAndProsper]

Probably Graeme is too talented and makes them look bad over there in comparison...could have been an ego thing with Etsy.

[Gilliauna D]

Is it still the case, though, that Graeme doesn't know what the issue is?  How recent is the post that's being referred to here where Juanita says he didn't know what was going on?

I mean, I know he woke up to a huge shock the day they shut BETSI down, and Juanita said something about that on the forums.   Just as we know Graeme is bound by legalities from being able to share.

But since then, it's been indicated that he is trying to work with Etsy to find a resolution and get BETSI back on track?  So possibly he didn't know what the issue is, but in his working with Etsy now he does?  

[Gilliauna]

Never mind.   I found on the Etsy forums where Juanita posted it just today that Graeme has been left still in the dark.

[sarahgr...@gmail.com]

Etsy has a long history of silencing people preventively, before they can make a (valid) complaint about their service or their way of handling certain matters. 

The way they handled things with Betsi is not unfamiliar. The most common example that comes to mind is when your shop gets suspended, either because you are a week late in paying your Etsy bill or because your are being suspected of not selling handmade. You are restricted from accessing the forums (shocker !), and can't even manage your listings. This is to prevent you from saving or exporting your inventory. A really classy move. They actually suspend your shop BEFORE they even contact you. 

The exact same scenario seems to be happening here with Betsi.

Not to mention the fact your customers land on a 404 error page when entering or clicking the link to your store, which is very similar, in the way it is done, to the announcement they made to Betsi subscribers. They have this habit of making radical statements that only implicate the seller and not themselves, without any explanation whatsoever to his/her customers. This way they make sure only the business owner will be held responsible in case of a wrongdoing.. even though that is yet to be proven, and even if it's an honest mistake. 

There are, after all, entire websites and communities out there, solely dedicated to bringing Etsy down, and all of them are managed not by rivals, but by former Etsy sellers who once trusted them with their business. I think that, alone, speaks volumes. And that's why I made sure I didn't make Etsy my main source of income.

[sarahgr...@gmail.com]

By the way, to everyone who is posting in this group, I hope you all made sure you are posting anonymously and with a different email than your Etsy login. We now know what Etsy is capable of when they feel threatened, and we also know they don't like complaints. Remember they have the power to stop your shop from appearing in search, without you noticing it.

[LiveLongAndProsper]

Heck, yes.

[2014onEtsy]

Graeme,
thank you for keeping us updated.

My shop processed close to 14,000 orders on Etsy last year and hope the API access will be restored - BETSI is an integral part of our success and I will be watching the resolution of this issue closely.   I hope that Etsy will reinstate your ability to keep our shops and items up to date.  After all when we sell more, Etsy benefits as well so it is to all of our common interest and benefit.

[anon1]

It is interesting that several "financial market" websites commentating on the Etsy IPO are saying that in order to survive Etsy has to increase it revenue from sellers and offer better tools to sellers.

"And as power sellers become smarter and empowered by better tools, I expect their average earnings to continue increasing" - http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/29/unpacking-etsys-s1/

Look at "Step 1: Develop a more complete suite of business management tools for sellers " in this article - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-moazed/4-steps-for-etsy-to-keep-_1_b_6956480.html

If these commentators are saying this, then it is likely investors will be expecting it to. 

It would not surprise me if during 2014 a new suite of management tools is released aimed purely at Etsy power sellers. Hence Etsy sees Betsi as a threat to a revenue stream from their own "paid for" management tools.

[Gabrielle Hinman]

Yes, but they have not demonstrated the ability to develope tools of their own that actually work or are useful.

[anon1]

Gabrielle, yes I agree. It makes me wonder if they are developing their own bulk editing tools and then they will charge for them. Betsi may be more advanced and powerful than the one they are developing - hence nobody would pay for Etsy' own version if there was a better 3rd party version out there. The way to get rid of the competition is to just say it doesn't comply with the TOC, and do not tell anybody exactly which clause(s) are in breach.

[Gabrielle Hinman]

I hope if this us the case that Graeme has goog lawyers and will sue the pants off them. If nothing else for decimation of character.

[TwistmoStudios]

No, I am not posting anonymously. I would not say anything here that I'm not willing to say in the forums to their face.  

[Kelly Neddo]

I thought now was a good time to remind everyone (including myself) to download their csv files :)

[LiveLongAndProsper]

Is there some plan to do away with that feature? Or you're just being cautious?

[unnamed]

I faithfully check in here once or twice each day to see if there's been any updates and I get sadder and sadder to see nothing.

[DavidK]

Me also. It is now just a waiting game to see what the final outcome will be.

[Kelly Neddo]

Just being cautious my friend, the csv file is really the only way to get your accounting data if etsy decided to shut a shop. Its your only way of prooving your shop even existed.