Our frustration level has forced us to write and we know we are singing to the choir
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Maggie Ware
Mar 24, 2015, 3:04:31 PM3/24/15
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Back on the 19th we posted this in the Etsy forum:
Well, we are totally unhappy about this issue. We have over 2000 items and we will return to the "dark ages" when we lose Betsi. For those of you who have never tried the app you would have no way of knowing how much time it saves for shop owners. Without a doubt Betsi has allowed a reduction in bulk editing time immensely. Where it would have taken an hour to edit items using the tools Etsy offers it would take 15 minutes (or less) with Betsi. We can only hope Etsy comes up with a straight forward tool to make changes in bulk and that that tool is not a half way attempt to replace Betsi.
Since the 19th we have spent many hours plotting a course for the future of our little company.
Back in 2008 we acquired our domain name and parked it for future use.
We’ve watched our business grow over time and have been pleased with the outcome. Alas, we must remember how many “sudden” changes we’ve been through with Etsy.
In our shop the month of March has notoriously become our “low” month. We’ve seen all kinds of changes rolled out in March. Changes that kill sales, scramble listings, infuriate sellers, and make us want to rip our hair out. We’re tired. We aren't 20 somethings anymore. (both over 70)
This year Etsy dropped a bomb and the explosion has been heard around the world.
Our sales don’t reflect it yet, and it isn’t felt in all the other shops effected by this change yet either, but we all will feel it when we lose Betsi and are no longer able to bulk edit everything about our ads in “one edit.” Betsi allows us to change an ad and a couple thousand ads with 1 click of the enter button.
The “new” Etsy Listing Manager certainly allows shop owners to edit their listing faster than before but the editing is still done '1 ad' at a time in most cases.
Example #1:
Maintaining 2000+ ads on a daily basis in order to change our tags it takes approximately 1.5 to 2 minutes to individually edit an ad’s tags using the Listing Manager.
The individual ad has to be opened, deletions made, new tags typed in or copy/pasted in, click the button to send changes, wait for lag time and then edits have to be double checked for accuracy because Etsy is having problems with ads reverting to their original state on a random basis. So another 15 seconds to double check the changes brings the editing time to 1.75 to 2 minutes per ad. Multiply 1.75 by 2066 (our current listing count) and the total is 3615.5 minutes and that equals a little over 60 hours of sitting at the computer to edit the tags in all our ads. Using Betsi it takes less than 2 hours and the computer does the work. Drag and Drop functions are wonderful, less typing needed. Look at the savings.
60 hours at Texas minimum wage (7.25 per hour) = $435 in labor costs just to change tags. 60 hours that could be used to list new product and any other number of tasks necessary in our shop.
Let’s face it shop owners: TIME IS MONEY!
Example #2: Let’s look at something easier.
We want to add a line to our descriptions in every ad. That’s a totally unrealistic change to make without Betsi.
In Etsy each ad has to be edited, not with the listing manager, but by opening each item via the “edit” function and copying/pasting the information into the description section of the item’s edit page, clicking the publish button, and another button because Etsy has a need to protect us from ourselves by requiring us to answer 2 times that we want the changes made to the ad and then having to reread the ad to make sure Etsy made the change as we wrote it and didn’t revert back to the old ad.
This change may have been something about a limited time “free shipping event” or something to do with the Holidays. Remember, these entries have to be removed once the event has passed. Think “Black Friday”. You could put the information in the Shop Announcements section of the front page but in our opinion very few shoppers take the time to read the information there unless they run across a problem and then as a last resort they open the drop down section of the shop announcement.
The first half of this change takes approximately 3.5 minutes because of all the steps involved. Remember, this information has to be deleted after the event so the time is double. The first half of the change factors out as: 2066 ads X 3.5 minutes = 7,231 minutes = 120.5 hours. Now multiply that by 2 for the process to remove the change after the event, another 120.5 hours with Etsy. With Betsi it is even faster than changing tags. This edit takes less than 15 minutes and while Betsi is making the changes we are free to work in our shop. The software does the work, not us. Wow!
Step 1 = 120.5 hours, Step 2 = 120.5 hours = 241 hours x 7.25 (Texas minimum wage) = $1747.25.
Let’s face it shop owners; TIME IS MONEY!
Example #3:
If we find a change needs to be made in the Materials section, by golly, step 1 of example #2 goes into effect again. Another 120.5 hours out of our lives to makes changes to the materials section. 120.5 hours x 7.25 = $874 in minimum wage money. My time is worth more than 7.25 per hours. We aren’t working for free, time is money!
The 3 examples total up to: 421 hours at a minimum wage cost of $3,052.
Well you may be thinking these old folks running this shop just can’t get the information right the first time and that creates the need to make changes to the ads. Not even close to the reality of running a shop this size (and we are small compared to so many).
Over the years Etsy has reminded their shop owners (renters) to make changes to their ads to keep them fresh. You know, change your photos, rephrase your titles (to suit Google, Etsy, whomever), sync up your titles with the opening lines of the description. Match your tags to your title/description, etc.
So, in the end we are reminded of the adage heard when we were young; “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket” and this certainly applies to Etsy.
If Etsy goes through with disconnecting Betsi they will have dropped our basket without providing any viable alternative or methodology to WORK SMART NOT HARD. Not through anything we have done but through an absence of forethought on their part we are left to clean up 2066 broken eggs each and every time we want or they want us to change something. That is quite a mess.
We have dusted off our domain name, signed up with Shopify and plan to spend the future setting up our own shop under, our own name, with our own payment processer thanks to PayPal.
Well, we are totally unhappy about this issue. We have over 2000 items and we will return to the "dark ages" when we lose Betsi. For those of you who have never tried the app you would have no way of knowing how much time it saves for shop owners. Without a doubt Betsi has allowed a reduction in bulk editing time immensely. Where it would have taken an hour to edit items using the tools Etsy offers it would take 15 minutes (or less) with Betsi. We can only hope Etsy comes up with a straight forward tool to make changes in bulk and that that tool is not a half way attempt to replace Betsi.
Since the 19th we have spent many hours plotting a course for the future of our little company.
Back in 2008 we acquired our domain name and parked it for future use.
We’ve watched our business grow over time and have been pleased with the outcome. Alas, we must remember how many “sudden” changes we’ve been through with Etsy.
In our shop the month of March has notoriously become our “low” month. We’ve seen all kinds of changes rolled out in March. Changes that kill sales, scramble listings, infuriate sellers, and make us want to rip our hair out. We’re tired. We aren't 20 somethings anymore. (both over 70)
This year Etsy dropped a bomb and the explosion has been heard around the world.
Our sales don’t reflect it yet, and it isn’t felt in all the other shops effected by this change yet either, but we all will feel it when we lose Betsi and are no longer able to bulk edit everything about our ads in “one edit.” Betsi allows us to change an ad and a couple thousand ads with 1 click of the enter button.
The “new” Etsy Listing Manager certainly allows shop owners to edit their listing faster than before but the editing is still done '1 ad' at a time in most cases.
Example #1:
Maintaining 2000+ ads on a daily basis in order to change our tags it takes approximately 1.5 to 2 minutes to individually edit an ad’s tags using the Listing Manager.
The individual ad has to be opened, deletions made, new tags typed in or copy/pasted in, click the button to send changes, wait for lag time and then edits have to be double checked for accuracy because Etsy is having problems with ads reverting to their original state on a random basis. So another 15 seconds to double check the changes brings the editing time to 1.75 to 2 minutes per ad. Multiply 1.75 by 2066 (our current listing count) and the total is 3615.5 minutes and that equals a little over 60 hours of sitting at the computer to edit the tags in all our ads. Using Betsi it takes less than 2 hours and the computer does the work. Drag and Drop functions are wonderful, less typing needed. Look at the savings.
60 hours at Texas minimum wage (7.25 per hour) = $435 in labor costs just to change tags. 60 hours that could be used to list new product and any other number of tasks necessary in our shop.
Let’s face it shop owners: TIME IS MONEY!
Example #2: Let’s look at something easier.
We want to add a line to our descriptions in every ad. That’s a totally unrealistic change to make without Betsi.
In Etsy each ad has to be edited, not with the listing manager, but by opening each item via the “edit” function and copying/pasting the information into the description section of the item’s edit page, clicking the publish button, and another button because Etsy has a need to protect us from ourselves by requiring us to answer 2 times that we want the changes made to the ad and then having to reread the ad to make sure Etsy made the change as we wrote it and didn’t revert back to the old ad.
This change may have been something about a limited time “free shipping event” or something to do with the Holidays. Remember, these entries have to be removed once the event has passed. Think “Black Friday”. You could put the information in the Shop Announcements section of the front page but in our opinion very few shoppers take the time to read the information there unless they run across a problem and then as a last resort they open the drop down section of the shop announcement.
The first half of this change takes approximately 3.5 minutes because of all the steps involved. Remember, this information has to be deleted after the event so the time is double. The first half of the change factors out as: 2066 ads X 3.5 minutes = 7,231 minutes = 120.5 hours. Now multiply that by 2 for the process to remove the change after the event, another 120.5 hours with Etsy. With Betsi it is even faster than changing tags. This edit takes less than 15 minutes and while Betsi is making the changes we are free to work in our shop. The software does the work, not us. Wow!
Step 1 = 120.5 hours, Step 2 = 120.5 hours = 241 hours x 7.25 (Texas minimum wage) = $1747.25.
Let’s face it shop owners; TIME IS MONEY!
Example #3:
If we find a change needs to be made in the Materials section, by golly, step 1 of example #2 goes into effect again. Another 120.5 hours out of our lives to makes changes to the materials section. 120.5 hours x 7.25 = $874 in minimum wage money. My time is worth more than 7.25 per hours. We aren’t working for free, time is money!
The 3 examples total up to: 421 hours at a minimum wage cost of $3,052.
Well you may be thinking these old folks running this shop just can’t get the information right the first time and that creates the need to make changes to the ads. Not even close to the reality of running a shop this size (and we are small compared to so many).
Over the years Etsy has reminded their shop owners (renters) to make changes to their ads to keep them fresh. You know, change your photos, rephrase your titles (to suit Google, Etsy, whomever), sync up your titles with the opening lines of the description. Match your tags to your title/description, etc.
So, in the end we are reminded of the adage heard when we were young; “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket” and this certainly applies to Etsy.
If Etsy goes through with disconnecting Betsi they will have dropped our basket without providing any viable alternative or methodology to WORK SMART NOT HARD. Not through anything we have done but through an absence of forethought on their part we are left to clean up 2066 broken eggs each and every time we want or they want us to change something. That is quite a mess.
We have dusted off our domain name, signed up with Shopify and plan to spend the future setting up our own shop under, our own name, with our own payment processer thanks to PayPal.
LiveLongAndProsper
Mar 24, 2015, 9:15:17 PM3/24/15
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Does anyone here personally know any of the Admins at Etsy? Do none of them have large shops? It seems like these changes are being made by people who must only have small shops, because they don't understand what we're going through.
DavidK
Mar 25, 2015, 2:08:36 PM3/25/15
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I did a little search in a few of the Etsy teams where Admns respond. I found 20 Admns. Of that 20, 9 of them maintained only "testing shops". Amazingly, the testing shops were being run by folks that were developing new things. I am sure that their test shops provide a wealth on knowledge regarding what it takes to run an actual business on Etsy and the problems that one encounters there.
Of the remaining 11 Admns, 5 had shops with nothing in them.
The last 6 averaged 18 items each, not enough to fill an entire page. Only 4 had more than 10 sales. Average length of time that these shop 6 shops were open is slightly over 4 years.
These people that are developing things for Etsy and telling us how to run a shop, don't know how, or what it takes, to run a successful shop. That explains so much.
Of the remaining 11 Admns, 5 had shops with nothing in them.
The last 6 averaged 18 items each, not enough to fill an entire page. Only 4 had more than 10 sales. Average length of time that these shop 6 shops were open is slightly over 4 years.
These people that are developing things for Etsy and telling us how to run a shop, don't know how, or what it takes, to run a successful shop. That explains so much.
WallCakes
Mar 25, 2015, 2:10:31 PM3/25/15
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It has nothing to do with them not understanding. I assume they can read. They simply don't give a fuck.
They mute people permanently (me being one them) for ridiculous reasons.
They mute people permanently (me being one them) for ridiculous reasons.
LiveLongAndProsper
Mar 25, 2015, 2:29:29 PM3/25/15
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Oh, now THAT explains a lot. I had been wondering about that myself. Your info would be worth posting in the Etsy forums, if you care to do so. People would really get heated over that.
DavidK
Mar 25, 2015, 2:37:21 PM3/25/15
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I am muted also for a few more days. I am sure that this would be construed as an attack on the fine folks of Etsy and I would be relegated to permanent mute status. My current hiatus is due to me saying that "Etsy (the company) lacked the brain power to replace BETSI." That was determined to be an attack on the folks who write code for them.
LiveLongAndProsper
Mar 25, 2015, 2:39:20 PM3/25/15
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P.S. It makes sense, because the Admins' full time jobs are working at Etsy, not having shops. But they're making a classic Management 101 mistake, which is not to take into account the needs of the stakeholders, meaning the buyers and sellers. This eerily similar to most companies where I've worked...pronouncements from on high, without even taking a lousy survey.
Maggie Ware
Mar 25, 2015, 4:33:14 PM3/25/15
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That does make sense.
We started a new thread on the "Etsy Staff" topic, Etsy Staff Intervention. Food for thought.
We started a new thread on the "Etsy Staff" topic, Etsy Staff Intervention. Food for thought.
Lenore Berry-Zaragosa
Apr 5, 2015, 11:35:52 AM4/5/15
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What is the link for this?
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