E3D V6 Jamming Issues

[Zach Moore]

Does anyone print with an E3D V6 all metal hotend? I installed one about a month ago with my Bondtech BMG extruder with about 700mm of bowden tube and it gave me nothing but headaches. Any time I had a significant coast distance, or slowed down beyond 30mm/s movement speeds the thing would jam. Printing with PLA.

I did track down the fact that my heater fan wasn't running at the right RPM as it was too close to the magnetic arms, but I replaced it with a 40mm brushless high RPM fan and it still experienced jamming issues. I even have a titanium heat break :/

I ended up reinstalling my Lite6, but I was just curious if anyone has experienced similar behavior.

[Haydn Huntley]

I've been using E3D V6 hotends on almost all of my printers for a few years.

At the beginning, I also noticed that the E3D Lite printed PLA with less difficulties than the more expensive All Metal hotend.

I haven't had any problems with my fans not spinning, though I orient my fans so that they're located as far as possible from the ends of the ball studs (which channel the magnetic fields).

I've heard that other people have setup their arms so that they have a north pole next to a south pole on the effector, and that this has helped them.

I never print at 30mm/s.  Typically I print at 60-80mm/s, with movement at 250mm/s.

There have been some objects I couldn't print, such as a Vornoi Bracelet, but it required an insane number of retractions.

BTW, with a ~250-300mm Bowden setup, I use 5.5mm retracts at 200mm/s.

With my newer flying extruder setup, I use 2-4mm retracts also at 200mm/s.

It may be possible that something is partially blocking your nozzle.  You could try cleaning it.  I remove mine and use a flame to burn everything out, and then use a whisker of brass (from a brass brush) to make sure nothing is in the orifice.

You could also try replacing it.  Larger diameter nozzles are much easier to print with than smaller ones.

On the E3D All Metal, it is necessary to use heat sink compound between the heat break and the heat sink, otherwise heat won't be transferred efficiently.  Once E3D discovered this and I found out about it, then my All Metal hotends performed as well as the Lite ones.  Using fresh (not re-used) heat sink compound is a good idea.

I read about a fellow who used a bit of teflon pipe tape to wrap the other end of the threads on the heat break (at the heater block end), to decrease the heat being transferred to the heat break.  I've recently begun doing that, though my machines have been reliable enough that I haven't noticed any improvements.  I'm hoping it will work better when next I try to print PETG.

I recommend using the E3D silicone sock, and even wrapping it with 1/4" Kapton tape, to keep the heat in.

[David Bates]

I have had this as well. I’ve found using a small amount of canola oil helps as well. Just a small amount spread over a little of the pla. I’m also going to try some of Hayden’s suggestions.

[Zach Moore]

Many thanks for the information Haydn, and the oil tip David.

The heater-fan-magnet issue was a result of installing the Duet Smart Effector. The locations of the arm ends was much closer to the heater fan than on the stock AMD effector. I ended up solving that issue with a swap of the North South locations on one the arms.

My printing speeds were definitely the biggest influence on jamming. If I printed a model with a consistent 60mm/s the V6 hotend would not jam. Unfortunately Cura 3.1 seems to auto-slow-down whenever the geometry of the part got small..despite my fixed printing speeds in settings. Slic3r 1.2.9 had better results with fixed speeds but again, small geometries still suffered from short extrusion paths that resulted in jamming. I should note that I was trying to print the V29 whistle on Thingiverse. I tried brand new spools of both NatureWorks 4034D PLA, and NatureWorks 3D850 PLA. I tried both my copper heaterblock and nozzle, and aluminum heaterblock with brass nozzle.

As I just noted, I tried two nozzles. One copper-Ni-coated and one brass. Both work well at high speeds...and in the Lite6. I did remember to include Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound on the heat sink side of the heat break...which is old, but it is a stable thermal compound. The addition of Teflon Pipe Tape seems a little odd...wouldn't it just flow out at temps above 260C and influence nozzle torque? That one is curious.

The most interesting note you made was your retraction lengths.With my Capricorn bowden tube I had decent retractions at 2mm@40mm/s even with 700mm of bowden tube. I'm surprised to hear that you required 5.5mm with 300mm of bowden. You might want to investigate the use of MUCH slower retraction speeds. I know that Shane has stated that faster retractions are best, but the Sublime Layers blog writer made a very good argument for slowing down your retractions.

I was quite frustrated after purchasing a Ti heatbreak and installing a 40mm brushless hotend fan to find that the whistle still resulted in jamming issues. Maybe in the future I'll try a little conola oil...as for now the Lite6 is back in and working quite well.

[Zach Moore]

Sublime Layers blog post on retractions:

http://www.sublimelayers.com/2016/10/some-musings-on-retracts.html

[Haydn Huntley]

I have a high regard for Michael Hackney, however whenever I've tried following his instructions for using a shorter retraction distance and lower speed retractions, it has led to more stringing.

I've built quite a few printers using similar designs (around 10 now), and the ones with longer bowden tubes have required around 5mm of retraction.

Is this the design you've been having trouble with?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1179160

I can try printing it tonight to see if I have difficulties similar to yours.

On my printers, I've customized the effectors to use three 50x15mm blower fans to rapidly cool the PLA, so I can set the minimum time per layer as low as 5-10 seconds.

This may be part of the reason I don't observe my machines printing slowly.

Also, for some difficult pieces (such as the treefrog or my Z-min probe holder), I've either added a thin wall around them, or printed two of them next to one another.

If it helps any, I'm not using particularly expensive or exotic PLA.

I just use black Hatchbox, or whatever else is inexpensively available from Amazon with Prime.

Some filaments have been trouble prone, and thus I avoid them (or only use them for vases).

Haydn Huntley
cell: 808-283-5173

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Zach Moore <zachat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sublime Layers blog post on retractions:

http://www.sublimelayers.com/2016/10/some-musings-on-retracts.html

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[Zach Moore]

My retractions are not perfect and I may experiment with higher lengths, but stringing is minimal and I live with it. On a long extrusion path with a single extrusion I see no stringing.

The link you provided is the design I was having trouble with. Another torture test for the V6 was the screw and knurled knob found in this design:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1673030/#files

Your rapid print speeds certainly may be the difference. Fairly often I print small intricate designs that aren't very optimized for FDM, but still, I know people can successfully print amazing prints with a v6....even with a bowden tube.

I eagerly await your V29 whistle results and, if functional, would love to see your slicer settings.

Thanks again Haydn,
-Zach

[Zach Moore]

I take it back, my stringing is pretty atrocious haha. I'm going to start bumping my retraction lengths up and see whats happens. Will experiment with higher speeds too. The print above is the 40mm combo fan shroud here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:839620

[Shane]

I've got a pretty long bowden as well, and I seem to have the most success with 200-250mm/s speed retracts and 6-8.5mm length.  Also, keep your non-print movement speeds up 200-250mm/s, to reduce travel time.  Bowden tubes like to ooze, we just have to manage it best we can.  Print nozzle temperature can affect it greatly as well.  Experiment.

[Haydn Huntley]

Hi Zach,

I printed the whistle last night and it came out fine.

I wouldn't expect that to be difficult to print.

So at the moment, you've got two problems:  Stringing and jamming.

If you lengthen your retraction distance, it will increase the jamming.

I suspect that somehow your heat break is getting too hot.

On all of my printers, I'm using the E3D silicone sock to help keep the heat in the heater block.

I also wrap them with 1/4" kapton tape, so that my cooling fans cannot inadvertently cool the heater block.

I think results in the controller having to send less electricity to heat the hotend, and thus less of the heat can go up the heat break.

You could also re-do your PID settings.

You could lower your printing temperature and see if that helps.

On my newer printers I'm using a simple flying extruder, which shortens the bowden to about 100mm, which has halved the printer's retraction distances.

If you'd like me to email or post my config files for Slic3r, just let me know...

[David Bates]

I take it all back!!! last night I spent 2 hours diagnosing under extrusion and the cause of course was the hotend, the ptfe liner in the shipped AMD hotend in the heatbreak had become obstructed. It was in a section where heat didn't travel so trying to heat and pull didn't work I wound up disassembling the whole thing. I never had this issue in E3D hotends but alas it is what it is. A handy tool to have is a butane soldering iron, you can take off the end and use it as a mini torch to heat up sections of an all metal hotend to clear it. 

[Haydn Huntley]

Hi David,

I'm unfamiliar with AMD hotends, but I've used a few Chinese E3D v6 knock-offs, and they've been fine.

I use the same cleaning technique, except that I don't have a butane torch, so I use either a tea light candle flame or else a gas stove.

First I burn out everything which will combust, then while it is hot I let a little bit of water cool the the part (and hopefully steam clean it), and then I heat it one more time and let it cool slowly.

Lastly, if it is a nozzle, then I use a whisker from a brass brush to make sure the orifice is clear and round.

[David Bates]

Same here except I have .4mm drill bits I use to clean out the nozzle. The butane torch is more of a soldering iron that you can take the tip off of: https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-Lead-Free-Soldering-Kit/1000170991

I was using the Chinese knock-off that came with the All Metal Delta (amd) I've had several authentic V5's and V6's though. 

[Zach Moore]

I re-installed my E3D V6 last Friday and had great printing performance throughout the weekend, even with print speeds as low as 30mm/s. On installation of the hot-end I liberally added thermal compound to the top threads and upon nozzle torqueing I also gave the heatbreak a little torque into the heatsink.

I can't conclusively say what fixed it, but I'm very glad I don't experience any jamming issues anymore.