Psy-Bounce WAV MiDi
Vita Strait
Yeah, I was talking about jitter. I kind of thought midi drift was sort of the same thing, since the timing drifts around. Maybe I was mistaken on the terminology. But anyway, all my post above were meant to explain how I deal with jitter.
That is really what i mean, the simple formularic approach makes it to clinical, some of the more expierienced producers can mitigate this, when after the mini drop s meaningful change comes, instead of the same sequence.
afaik by learning from lots of interviews / post of artists I like (lots of Zenon artists, lots of forest, etc.), the ones that use hadware in their production to generate sound always emphasize that they bounce / record everything to samples, from one shots of the kicks / bass to loops of synth / percs etc.
What I have found that is pretty cool for drum machines is just matching up the BPMs and not sending sync, just a start/stop message. That is usually tighter and more organic than one machine trying to sync to another IME. I just ordered a blackbox for this very task.
For synths I usually send sync as well but I may mess with that. Instead of time aligning all my recordings dead to a grid I tend to throw them in sampler and just mess with the sound until I get something unique. Different style though than Psytrance.
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Tbh, I have this synth but I stopped using it a while back, it is really flexible but there is something about its sound what I just don't like. I'm keeping my copy just for the case Zebra 3 will have better sound.
Even having this well set it just doesn't sound that good. further processing is necessary. often just adding a multiband dynamics in ableton without any compression going on giv es the bass a big boost in richness und clarity....
add a lowcut, multiband distortion and compression, eqing and so on is a long process to get it right...do copies, try another fx chain, compare the copies...
nice acid line recursion loop
well I'm still not totally satisfied with my basslines. they could be more present in the whole mix and i'm missing the definition in the low end.
Hard to get that right without having too much staccato in the bassline. you know like loosing that nice rolling that keeps it all together; like every bass note is too much for it's own.
I usually prorgram a steady 16th pattern (each note ends right where the nex one begins) and then the envelopes come into play. The psy bass is very sensitive to envelopes, +/-1% percent of decay or filer envelope amount can make a world of difference. Basically you need a synth with steady fast envelopes, dead-accurate retrigger and fat, meaty sound, I always felt that Zebra is a bit too thin and inconsistent for this. So far I was getting the best results with Sylenth.
Padmapani, I guess you make different kind of bass, not the typical "machinegun" style? You seem to be a fan of U-He synths. I love Diva and Bazille, though I still haven't bought the latter. I really like the sound but I can't figure out how it should be programmed and I usually don't rely much on presets. The others never clicked with me. Hive was the biggest disappointment - they tryed to copy Sylenth but Sylenth sounds much better to me.
I cant say for Zebra but I found Sylenth1 the easiest and i used it in my last 10 or so... I think you should try it... here is something from my experience and how i do basses As for U-He i heard Diva is superb, you should try that one too!
- Fabfilter Saturn to add saturation, make attack/click up... sometimes i add up to 10dB of high freqs depends of sound i want to achive... someone use Quadrafuzz like Talpa but both are great... or you can just use high boost/high shelfing but with Saturn i feel like i can do it more precisely
As i do Goa trance i love to soften/put down mids so i can have melodies dominant in mid range without interupting too much with bassline, same way i put down high on melodies and i put up highs on bass so its still cutting trough and sound rolling.
Many people want to make super good bass from begging of track and want them to sound so phat and rolling with just kick-bass loop. First of all make a 'solid' bass, make track, mix properly and then at last going trough mix 'fix' the bass and thats what you should aim to. To sound top with everything else, not just soloed
yeah, u-he makes great sounding stuff almost all of the time. i haven't bought bazille either (i wouldn't use or want to learn all the fm/... stuff either), but i've found beatzille on the net. that's a slimmed down version that lacks some of the more exotic functions but sounds equally good with some simple settings and has no copy protection
hive didn't catch my attention either. i've played around with the public beta but haven't really found any use for it (just like sylenth). pretty much all of the things i can do in hive, i can do better and more easily in zebra. on the other hand psy basses turned out better, though i still prefer the results i can get with ace or bazille.
Still returning to Sylenth in 100% cases. There is something about its envelopes and filter saturation that just sounds right for the machinegun basses. In my latest track (the one I've posted here) I only did some equalisation and a bit of transient shaping after the synth output. Before that there were several painful and unsuccessful attempts to make Spire fit. I prefer Spire to Sylenth for most other sounds, but it has a bit weird envelopes which makes it good for plucks and stabs but not so good for psybass, especially if you have constantly changing notes..
I think Zebra is quite overrated. With resonance some of the modes in the old filter module have an unpleasant, quite digital roughness to them. I also don't like how the XMF filters already start to self-oscillate around 12 o'clock. The FM also sounds meh for goa/psy, especially compared to Virus or Nord and for all the synth's modularity and flexibility you are limited a small number of waves with FM.
The envelopes (most important for the filter obviously) have just the right concavity in decay and are really fast. The filter is fat and round in the low frequencies. There's your magikal kbbb recipe.
For some reason this relatively simple sound is hard to get right in sofware (if understand it right what sound you mean - that ripping melatic sound made by FM between two saw waves, or square and saw, one being two octaves lower than another). Discovery does passable emulation of this sound but if I'm not mistaken, it doesn't allow assigning FM amount to velocity which makes programming sequences pretty painful. Also it can be approximated by very fast LFO/pitch modulation in Spire, but it should be programmed very carefully cause Spire is prone to bad sounding artefacts in this scenario.
of course sometimes i'll hear a bassline in some sort of track (the last time it was some proggy by sonic species) and try to copy it. then i'll have to spend days to make it work in a goa context (with the result sounding nothing like sonic species at all)
if the bass patch sounds good as it is then it's fine, but if it doesn't, the problem should most likely be fixed by tweaking the synth. so i've never seen any reason to resample. besides, even though i'm mostly using machine gun bass patterns i'd rather give a more organic feel to the bassline by allowing for little variations over time...
Me too, actually. I freeze most other things but the bass always stays in midi cause there always may be a need to tweak envelope, or filter or something else as more synths are added to the track. I know many people (PsiloCybian e.g.) bounce a single note and put it into a sampler so I wonder if I'm missing something , but to me Sylenth's retrigger sounds accurate enough.
another apparent advantage of resampling is that you can eq just one note perfectly and then transpose that up or down to play your bass pattern, but i've never felt the need to do such a thing either. imho the time you could spend on getting your bassline sounding perfect is better used for making interesting melodies and improving the flow of the track.
@Antic. I't a common techique to make the machine gun bass even more machine gun - you bounce a single 16-th note with all the processing and put it into a sampler, then write the bass patterns in the sampler track. As Padmapani said, it also makes sence if you do precise equing of your bass (actually this is pretty applicable to me, I do equalisation based on the root note harmonics, and note changes happen in my basslines very often, so I think I'll try resampling in my next tracks).
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