QSApp.com/wiki updates/request

[philostein]

Patrick and I have done a lot of updates to the QSApp.com/wiki:

- All* the plugins are in http://qsapp.com/wiki/Plugin_Reference now,
including the info from QS Preferences>Plug-ins and a column to link
to tutorials. (This is the page to add any plugin info to now.)

- The front page has been simplified and tidied up a bit.

- The Tutorials page has subheadings for Quicksilver and the various
sections in QS Preferences.

- Pages have begun to be created for individual plugins, e.g. the
Shelf Module is at http://qsapp.com/wiki/Shelf_Module

- The wiki can have embedded video from various sites including
YouTube, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:EmbedVideo

What it really needs now is for people to get stuck in and help with
the compatibility chart in the Plugin Reference. (Which plugins work
with which QS and OS.) Then more links to tutorials in the Tutorial
column on the same page. (Offsite links are fine.) And if you're
ambitious, how about creating some wiki plugin pages? Set up a wiki
account which I, er… can't remember how to do. If you don't want to do
that, post any info you might have here.

Cheers, Phil.


*At least, all the ones from QSApp.com/Plugins and QS Preferences>Plug-
ins (I think). There must be other offsite plugins that we've missed.

[Patrick Robertson]

If you want to set up a wiki account, then email me or Rob McBroom and we can sort one out.

As Rob said, we've put a lot of work recently into getting a decent list of plugins up. I'm sure there are still some missing, and neither of us know about everything, or the compatibility of all the plugins.

If you want more motivation for filling in the wiki, this is going to help us CONSIDERABLY for when we start using QSApp.com to push plugins to Quicksilver.

You've probably all thought the descriptions in QS are pretty vague for some of the plugins - filling in the description will help.

You've probably come across plugins not working in QS / for your operating system - filling in the compatibility columns means we can make sure only the right plugins show up for your QS version, and you Mac OS X version.

There's still lots of stuff that needs to be added to the wiki, so we'd appreciate any help towards 'keeping QS alive'

Patrick

[junk1]

I don't have the skill with QS that most on this board have, but I
nonetheless thought I'd give this a go.

Before I got started I thought it might beneficial to have a common
template. I've attached a rough draft of what I was thinking about
below. It's real rough, and I encourage anyone interested to tear it
apart.

Let me know your suggestions.

Attachment: http://sites.google.com/site/junk1temp/files/WikiTemplate0.1.zip

[Howard Melman]

Just some quick thoughts.

Modules have more than just actions. They have proxies and types and catalog entries.

To me, instructions and examples are too similar. Have you seen the Quick Reference Sheet I did?
http://mysite.verizon.net/hmelman/QSRef.pdf
(listed on http://qsapp.com/wiki/Where_is_everything%3F)
I think it's useful with just a line containing direct object, action, indirect object (or whatever parlance you want to use)
Still, I think a screen shot showing an example command window would be great for the wiki.

One of the hardest parts of writing the manual was in standardizing on terminology because QS isn't consistent. I recommend using the terminology I use in the manual. :)

FYI, a note for the plugins list, instead of saying Current: Yes/No, I think it would be better to be Known to be current through and give a version number. That way the list won't get out of date with new releases. As people know a module works with later releases, the list could be updated. My guess is that a lot of modules aren't used by many people and they'll slowly wither. That's fine. Seeing which ones do get updated, gives a sense of popularity and helps devs figure out where to devote time.

Howard

[Patrick Robertson]

I definitely think it's a good idea to have standardised template for each module page. It would make things much easier to read.

I agree with Howard about adding a few more sections to it with proxies, types and catalog entries.

There could also be a section at the bottom with external videos/links to tutorials.

I'm not quite following you Howard on the plugins list front. Do you mean stick in the version of QS/OS X that the plugin works with, then if they get updated to we can just change e.g. 10.5 to 10.6 etc.

[junk1]

Great! I'll try to incorporate those ideas.

Which interface should we use for the examples?

[philostein]

I suppose Bezel is the default interface, but I don't think it's too
important if you can see the command structure (I use BezelHUD a lot).

Definitely go with your idea, it's far better to do and revise later,
than to worry if it wasn't quite right in the first place.

Please post again if you want any help/opinion.

[Howard Melman]

On Mar 25, 2011, at 11:22 AM, philostein <phild...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Definitely go with your idea, it's far better to do and revise later,
> than to worry if it wasn't quite right in the first place.

I agree 100%.

Howard

[Howard Melman]

Yes in the plugin list put B58 instead of Yes. Maybe it's a separate column for OSX version but I'm not sure that's necessary. It's usually that QS itself has issues with OSX versions, and plugins usually have issues with QS. I suspect any plugin OSX issue could be handled in a note rather than needing a specific column.

Howard

[Howard Melman]

On Mar 25, 2011, at 9:51 AM, junk1 wrote:

> Great! I'll try to incorporate those ideas.
>
> Which interface should we use for the examples?

The default interface is probably best, but I find Primer to be quite ugly and it's very large. So for the manual I went with bezel since that's what I use and like. It's probably best that the wiki be consistent but it's probably not a big deal. I suspect it's better to use an interface that does work, so BezelHUD (if I understand the current status correctly) probably isn't a good choice.

I put a page in the manual showing all the interfaces, the wiki probably deserves an Interfaces page too so people can see examples.

Howard

[philostein]

The Yes/No column was just a draft to be honest. Isn't the problem the
multiplication of compatibility issues caused by having different
usable versions of QS with different iterations of OS?

Perhaps one column each for 10.5 and 10.6 with the latest plugin
version known to work?

I would like to get more people interested in the functions of
Quicksilver they maybe never knew existed, and make sure there's a
prominent link to Howard's manual at the top of each tutorial if they
need further clarification. The manual can explain QS far better than
me (and most people I suspect).

On Mar 25, 8:30 am, Howard Melman <hmel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just some quick thoughts.
>
> Modules have more than just actions. They have proxies and types and catalog entries.
>
> To me, instructions and examples are too similar. Have you seen the Quick Reference Sheet I did?http://mysite.verizon.net/hmelman/QSRef.pdf

> (listed onhttp://qsapp.com/wiki/Where_is_everything%3F)

[dsanson]

On Mar 22, 9:32 am, philostein <phildoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you don't want to do that, post any info you might have here.

I quickly ran through the list of plugins I'm using and compared them
to the information on the wiki. I'm running 10.6.6 and b58 3841. Here
are a few notes:

The Calculator Module (mislabeled on the wiki as Calculator Action) is
working fine for me. Over the years, I've never had trouble with it.

The Firefox/Mozilla Module: As I recall, one needed to apply an
about:config tweak to get current versions of Firefox to save
bookmarks in a flat file. And I'm not sure whether or not the History
scanning is working.

The Tatau Module: I used to be quite fond of this. At some point, I
decided it was causing frequent crashes, and so stopped using it. But
I just tested it and didn't have any immediate problems. (But I've
grown so fond of Mini-Bezel that I can't really see going back to
Bezel just to use Tatau.)

I also have a Remote Hosts Module. I don't think I really use it, but
I noticed its not on the list.

As for screen shots, you might consider Mini-Bezel, if only because it
is a bit smaller than Bezel, and so won't take up quite so much screen
real estate on the webpage.

David

[Patrick Robertson]

I've made the changes you (dsanson) suggested to the plugin page, and added a Firefox Module page with a bit of rough info.

Seeing as you seem to know your stuff about QS, would you be keen to help us out on the wiki? I can set up an account for you if you email me your desired username and (temporary) password.

[philostein]

Thanks David, this is great. I never used the Tatau Module before, and
it still works perfectly.

I updated the Calculator and Tatau info. I added the Remote Hosts
Module - sorry, I must have missed that one somehow. (If you're
reading Rob, does this work still?)

The Firefox thing - I think I tried that once and couldn't get it to
work. Does anyone else have more info?

The interface size is not such a problem, just resize the images
(75%?) to take up less space. The 'Scale Image…' action is your
friend. :)

Thanks for all the info!

[Henning Jungkurth]

> The Firefox thing - I think I tried that once and couldn't get it to
> work. Does anyone else have more info?

Well, Firefox changed the way it stores its information. The
bookmarks, the history and some other stuff are now stored in a SQLite
database, a file called places.sqlite
As dsanson mentioned, it's possible to tell Firefox to auto export the
bookmarks to a file called bookmarks.html by calling up about:config
and setting browser.bookmarks.autoExportHTML to true. I think it then
exports the bookmarks on quitting. This file can be read by QS and be
used to access the firefox bookmarks.

At some point, the plugin should be updated to read the places.sqlite directly.

[Rob McBroom]

On Mar 25, 2011, at 5:54 PM, philostein wrote:

> I updated the Calculator and Tatau info. I added the Remote Hosts
> Module - sorry, I must have missed that one somehow. (If you're
> reading Rob, does this work still?)

I was out of town - catching up.

You mean does the plug-in work? I think it was written after 10.6 was out, so… yeah. :)

Although I freely admit that I only tested it for about 3 seconds with B58. It works great with B54.

--
Rob McBroom
<http://www.skurfer.com/>

[junk1]

Here's the revision. Let me know what I got wrong.

I'd like to do something to divide it up better too, but can't think
of anything. Any help much appreciated.

http://sites.google.com/site/junk1temp/files/WikiTemplate0.2.zip

[Patrick Robertson]

> Although I freely admit that I only tested it for about 3 seconds with B58. It works great with B54.

Works beautifully on B58 for me ;)

> Here's the revision. Let me know what I got wrong.

Looks good to me. I think it may be good to have a short one liner description at the top of every page (similar to what you see in QS when you click the 'i' but better as these are pretty rubbish)

Does everyone think images are necessary? They look nice but I'm not sure...

[philostein]

That looks really great. Do you have an wiki account? Can you try your
template on a page?

A couple of ideas:

- Put a summary at the top to explain and 'sell' the overall use and
value of the plugin, and have an example there.

- Make it clear the 'Email to… (Compose)' action is not dependant on
the Address Book Module, rather the recipient Address Book contact.
Perhaps have an 'Objects' section with 'Address Book contact' and give
'Email to… (Compose)' as an example.

- Is it necessary to have the requirements for each Action? Maybe
'Extra requirements' if there's something on top of the basic app and
plugin.

In the wiki edit page, you can add dividers by typing '----' (no
quotes). Edit some pages without changes to see the format.

I'll start to move my pages over to your template when I get time, and
I'll post about it here.

Cheers, Phil.

[philostein]

Perhaps just one image near the top as an example, then a template
format for other actions.

What about a table with First pane, second pane, third pane columns?

On Mar 30, 6:24 am, Patrick Robertson <robertson.patr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > Although I freely admit that I only tested it for about 3 seconds with
>
> B58. It works great with B54.
>
> Works beautifully on B58 for me ;)
>
> > Here's the revision. Let me know what I got wrong.
>
> Looks good to me. I think it may be good to have a short one liner
> description at the top of every page (similar to what you see in QS when you
> click the 'i' but better as these are pretty rubbish)
>
> Does everyone think images are necessary? They look nice but I'm not sure...
>

[philostein]

I've taken a lot of junk1's ideas and Patrick's wish to have fewer
screenshots, and come up with this:
http://qsapp.com/wiki/Opera_Module

There's 4 sections:

- Overview
- Preference Items
- Commands
- Tutorials

Some details:

- Overview: A quick summary of what the plugin does with a interface
window image (75% size jpg 20 kb).

- Preference Items: What the plugin adds to Preferences. I've bulleted
the navigation structure to hopefully make the items easier to find.

- Commands: Instead of just Actions, I think it's better to list
Commands. Plugins sometimes add objects (e.g., scripts, Address Book
contacts) and catalog entries as well as actions. There's columns for
extra requirements (e.g., Proxy Objects catalog entry needs to be
checked) and notes.

- Tutorials: Videos (no bandwidth), walkthroughs, hints and tips here.

I think it'll be easier to see all the info while still being compact.

Let me know what you think. If this is a goer, I'll add a template
page to the wiki to make it easier for anyone to add pages.

Notes: Opera's current web page Proxy is broken in ß58? How to align
text to the top of tables in the wiki?

Cheers, Phil.

[Rob McBroom]

On Mar 31, 2011, at 2:04 AM, philostein wrote:

> Let me know if you think. If this is a goer, I'll add a template page

> to the wiki to make it easier for anyone to add pages.

I like it, myself.

I’ll bet we could achieve almost the same result automagically by looking at a plug-in’s Info.plist (which I think is in the works) but until then, this will be great.

[Howard Melman]

I mostly like it. The following is longer than I thought to type, but I think it's mostly nits. I think it's important to get the example template right so others can copy it effectively but feel free to say I'm being too picky.

Overview and tutorials are great. The Overview example text could use a little more detail. All plugins "Help Quicksilver interact with" and "Opera" is the name of the module so the only word that provides info is "browser". If you don't know what Opera is, it explains that it's a browser and that is very useful. I'd rather see something like "Support for the Opera browser, including an Open With Opera action and exposing bookmarks and more in the catalog." I somehow feel the link to the author's homepage should be in some template but I'm not sure where (maybe with version number?).

I like the information but not necessarily the layout of the giant grids with mostly empty space. I don't understand why having an info button should have the important first spot. The most important thing that plugins add are Actions and Catalog items and I think those should be first in that order. I do like the hierarchy being shown in the catalog and the type for actions but it took me a little to figure it out. Maybe bolding the actions and catalog entries like they are in the Commands section to make them stand out?

In commands I don't understand "Items in brackets are additional instructions." I don't see brackets, [], though I do see parenthesis (). And it looks like additional instructions are in the Extra Requirements and Notes columns.

I believe Proxy Objects requires Advanced Features to be enabled so that should be listed in requirements and you probably shouldn't start off with something that requires Advanced Features. Also Current Web Page comes from the Safari plugin (which should be in requirements) so while it works, it probably shouldn't be here at all since it's the same as URL. What I'd do in this case is under Operas current web page, in the note I'd say not to be confused with the badly named Current web page proxy object which refers only to Safari's current page. For the Copy from Opera to scripts I think it's useful to list them all on their own line and not just in the note say there are others. I'm guessing there's are copy to Opera variants and currently I don't know their name.

Is "Operas open tabs" a proxy object or only available via right-arrow into Opera.app? I assume Opera needs to be running for this so that should be in the notes. I'd think these things should be grouped together and not separated by a proxy object example. Maybe these should be up in the preferences items section but I'm not sure how.

I appreciate that saying "(Text and URL actions)" tells you a list of available actions but I think I still want to see specific examples. I'm not sure what I'd do with an open tab other than show or close and these aren't text or URL actions. I assume searches work with Find With... and Search For... which require the Web Searches plugin and probably should be listed explicitly for people to find and need something in the third pane (its listed as blank).

Howard

[junk1]

Good:
Table (great!)
Preferences section
Extra requirements column
Overview section

Issues:
No descriptions
No examples

Don't understand:
What are "Text and URL actions"?
How will different keystrokes be communicated?
ex) ctrl + enter
How will multipanel (term?) commands be communicated?
ex) display a contacts address book field in large type

I think that the main issues I'm having might have to do with our
respective understandings of the target audience. QS is a geek tool,
so my approach of coming at it from a dummies perspective might not be
what you guys are looking for.

I've always warmed to the idea of selling benefits rather than
features. That's why I was thinking the "You wanna do this?" "Here's
how to do it" rational would work. I have to admit, that this approach
might be more suited to a tutorial than a wiki though.

[philostein]

Thanks for your thoughts Howard!

I've got a some reasons for the layout. I'll revise the template later
and get back to you.

[philostein]

Thanks, junk1.

The overview can be anything - I just copied the text from the last
page.

The tutorial video has most of the setup in it. Also, examples could
go here - I just didn't have time to write any!

I think it's better to have all the functionality of the plugin in the
table. We don't know the readers level - some might think they know
everything but see something new.

There's a Pane 3 column, but there's no pane 3 Opera actions(?) Ctrl
+enter - any plugin specific actions in there?

I'll ger back to you later with more - I'm going to work.

Cheers, Phil.

[Patrick Robertson]

Nice to get some kind of template/content up.

I have to agree with Howard on most of his points. I feel it should be as easily accessible as possible, especially for new comers. The big table is a bit in your face, and a few of the columns are left blank (I think this is because of the idea that we'll just copy/paste the template)

I'm not even quite sure what the "info 'i' button" column actually means. (Sorry!)

Why not use the "wikitable" class for the tables? (like the plugin ref) I think that looks nicer, and if we use classes in CSS it means it'll be easy to just update the styles in the future, as opposed to having to edit every page.

All in all, good work and a good start.

Descending bullet points/lists are good, tutorials are good and some images are good.

... maybe sooner rather than later we should set up some kind of donations scheme going for keeping the site online. It's still not costing me a penny, but bandwidth is ramping up rapidly (due to the success of the site!)

[Patrick Robertson]

Forwarding this so hopefully it's in the right thread...

I haven't had a chance to try out the code, but it definitely sounds like a good initial template maker. Then we can modify it to add things like tutorials and extended descriptions. A lot of the descriptions in the plugins are either non-existent or unhelpful.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eric Doughty-Papassideris <eric.d...@gmail.com>
Date: 1 April 2011 10:06
Subject: Re: Digest for blacktree-...@googlegroups.com - 20 Messages in 3 Topics
To: blacktree-...@googlegroups.com


Hi, I'm the author of the Opera Module, and what to thank you for your interest.
I think the whole writing wiki pages per plugin is great idea, but we
need a way to try out solutions on all plugins so we get something
generic. As has been suggested, the plist has plenty of info that is
too hard to read today.
So as to get the ball rolling, I propose the attached system of
generating templates. I need some helping getting the template right,
but I thought I'd share what's done so far. I run the following
command to generate some template for the plugin : ./plisttemplate.rb
-v -p ~/Library/Application\ Support/Quicksilver/PlugIns -t
template.erb -o ./overrides/ OnePassword.qsplugin
I think we should try and formalise the help format, this is as
productive a way as I know of =)

Best Regards,
Eric Doughty-Papassideris

PS: If the attachment doesn't work, I'm a bit new to google groups, I
uploaded it here: http://s-softs.com/plisttemplate.tgz


On 31 March 2011 22:46,  <blacktree-quic...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>   Today's Topic Summary
>
> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/blacktree-quicksilver/topics
>
> QSApp.com/wiki updates/request [5 Updates]
> stupid interface tricks [1 Update]
> Play/Pause and other iTunes actions MISSING [14 Updates]
>
>  Topic: QSApp.com/wiki updates/request
>
> philostein <phild...@gmail.com> Mar 30 11:01PM -0700 ^

> philostein <phild...@gmail.com> Mar 30 11:04PM -0700 ^
>
> I've taken some of junk1's ideas and Patrick's wish to have fewer

> screenshots, and come up with this:
> http://qsapp.com/wiki/Opera_Module
>
> There's 4 sections:
>
> - Overview
> - Preference Items
> - Commands
> - Tutorials
>
> Some details:
>
> - Overview: A quick summary of what the plugin does with a interface
> window image (75% size jpg 20 kb).
>
> - Preference Items: What the plugin adds to Preferences. I've bulleted
> the navigation structure to hopefully make the items easier to find.
>
> - Commands: Instead of just Actions, I think it's better to list
> Commands. Plugins sometimes add objects (e.g., scripts, Address Book
> contacts) and catalog entries as well as actions. There's columns for
> extra requirements (e.g., Proxy Objects catalog entry needs to be
> checked) and notes.
>

> - Tutorials: Videos, walkthroughs, hints and tips here.

>
> I think it'll be easier to see all the info while still being compact.
>

> Let me know if you think. If this is a goer, I'll add a template page

> to the wiki to make it easier for anyone to add pages.
>
>
>
>
>

> Rob McBroom <mailin...@skurfer.com> Mar 31 08:35AM -0400 ^

>
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 2:04 AM, philostein wrote:
>

>> Let me know if you think. If this is a goer, I'll add a template page

>> to the wiki to make it easier for anyone to add pages.
>

> I like it, myself.
>
> I’ll bet we could achieve almost the same result automagically by looking at
> a plug-in’s Info.plist (which I think is in the works) but until then, this
> will be great.
>

> --
> Rob McBroom
> <http://www.skurfer.com/>
>
>
>

> Howard Melman <hme...@gmail.com> Mar 31 10:33AM -0400 ^

> junk1 <ju...@thc.hk> Mar 31 01:04PM -0700 ^

>
> Good:
> Table (great!)
> Preferences section
> Extra requirements column
> Overview section
>
> Issues:
> No descriptions
> No examples
>
> Don't understand:
> What are "Text and URL actions"?
> How will different keystrokes be communicated?
> ex) ctrl + enter
> How will multipanel (term?) commands be communicated?
> ex) display a contacts address book field in large type
>
> I think that the main issues I'm having might have to do with our
> respective understandings of the target audience. QS is a geek tool,
> so my approach of coming at it from a dummies perspective might not be
> what you guys are looking for.
>
> I've always warmed to the idea of selling benefits rather than
> features. That's why I was thinking the "You wanna do this?" "Here's
> how to do it" rational would work. I have to admit, that this approach
> might be more suited to a tutorial than a wiki though.
>
>
>

>  Topic: stupid interface tricks
>
> Rob McBroom <mailin...@skurfer.com> Mar 31 03:15PM -0400 ^
>
> After seeing this hint, I thought I’d give it a try on Quicksilver.
>
> http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20110322011218363
>
> To double the size of the entire application, quit Quicksilver and run this:
>
> defaults write com.blacktree.quicksilver AppleDisplayScaleFactor 2
>
> It didn’t work well with my usual interface (BezelHUD), but for something
> like Primer, it worked surprisingly well and the text looks great at
> double-size. Unfortunately, the menu bar icon (if you have it) is also
> doubled, which looks awful.
>
> To revert to normal, quit Quicksilver and run this:
>
> defaults delete com.blacktree.quicksilver AppleDisplayScaleFactor

>
> --
> Rob McBroom
> <http://www.skurfer.com/>
>
>
>

>  Topic: Play/Pause and other iTunes actions MISSING
>
> Branden <officer.f...@gmail.com> Mar 30 12:46PM -0700 ^
>
> Hey folks, wondering if anyone else has seen this or knows what to do.
> I followed the directions for quicksilver on two different machines,
> but the play/pause actions never show up in the list. Just the
> standard open, open with, reveal, etc. The play action DOES however
> show up if I start browsing the playlists from within QS.
>
> Does the play/pause action not work anymore?
>
>
>
> Henning Jungkurth <henning....@gmail.com> Mar 30 11:00PM +0200 ^
>
> These are application actions: Actions, that only appear, when a
> specific applications is in the first pane.
> For iTunes that should be "Next Song", "Play - Pause", "Previous Song".
> But they were broken a while ago. I'm looking into that but haven't
> figured it out quite yet. If anyone knows a QS version where they
> still work, let me know.
>
> The play action on playlists and songs in unrelated to the application
> actions and (as you mentioned) should work.
>
>
>
>
> Branden <officer.f...@gmail.com> Mar 30 02:12PM -0700 ^
>
> OK cool, just wanted to make sure I was not totally insane (maybe a
> little, but not 100%).
>
> If anyone has a solution, would be awesome.
>
>
>
> Ian Hay <iki...@gmail.com> Mar 31 01:06AM +0200 ^
>
> I'm not on my usual machine so can't check for exactly where but have you
> checked the actions in the triggers under itunes for the additional actions
> you want, mine are set to various hotkeys so I can play/pause, next track,
> browse artist etc ?
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Robertson <robertso...@gmail.com> Mar 31 10:08AM +1100 ^
>
> Make sure you have the actions enabled in the prefs.
> The 'play', 'play next', etc only work when you have a song file in the 1st
> pane of QS.
>
> I'd suggest going with what Ian said and setting up triggers if you want to
> do things like play next song a log.
>
>
>
>
> Ian Hay <iki...@gmail.com> Mar 31 01:23AM +0200 ^
>
> to be honest mine fell in to disuse a bit when i got the new keyboard with
> the media buttons but the browse artist, album then play i use a lot when i
> decide on a certain artist i want to listen to
>
>
>
>
>
> Patrick Robertson <robertso...@gmail.com> Mar 31 10:25AM +1100 ^
>
> I'm the same...
>
> Something new that I've just discovered (call me a n00b if you like...) is
> setting up a hotkey CMD + OPTN + CTRL + -> for a 'songs, search contents'
> trigger. I just tap that, type the song I want and it'll play.
>
> I guess the same could be done for albums, artists etc.
>
> Kudos to Howard and his manual... as usual ;)
>
>
>
>
> Ian Hay <iki...@gmail.com> Mar 31 07:12AM +0200 ^
>
> that's how i use it but with artist or album same keys except -> for artist
> and <- for album
>
> What I keep meaning to get round to is a trigger that would take the
> currently playing song and play the album it belongs to
>
>
>
>
> Rob McBroom <mailin...@skurfer.com> Mar 31 08:41AM -0400 ^
>
> On Mar 30, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Henning Jungkurth wrote:
>
>> But they were broken a while ago. I'm looking into that but haven't
>> figured it out quite yet. If anyone knows a QS version where they
>> still work, let me know.
>
> I see these actions in B54 (under 10.6.7), but I suspect it would work in
> B58 as well and that it’s probably a Preferences issue if they’re not
> showing up.

>
> --
> Rob McBroom
> <http://www.skurfer.com/>
>
>
>

> Henning Jungkurth <henning....@gmail.com> Mar 31 04:22PM +0200 ^
>
>> I see these actions in B54 (under 10.6.7), but I suspect it would work in
>> B58 as well and that it’s probably a Preferences issue if they’re not
>> showing up.
>
> Actually, I'm pretty sure, these actions don't work in later versions,
> whatever preferences you set.
> The method that creates these actions isn't called anymore. By now I
> have found the commit that removed the application actions
> (https://github.com/quicksilver/Quicksilver/commit/b3a50421348df85f9af232f00f9761f317917838#diff-0).
> It removes the call to QSObject actionsForDirectObject:
> indirectObject:, which would create these actions in
> QSObject_FileHandling.m
>
> Adding the call to that method again will make the actions reappear.
> But there were also some changes in how applescript actions are
> handled, so they wont work. I think. Still more discoveries to make.
> :-)
>
> Btw. should this part of the conversation be moved to the dev-list?
>
>
>
> Rob McBroom <mailin...@skurfer.com> Mar 31 10:36AM -0400 ^
>
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 10:22 AM, Henning Jungkurth wrote:
>
>> Actually, I'm pretty sure, these actions don't work in later versions,
>> whatever preferences you set.
>
> You think your examination of the source code is somehow more reliable than
> my foggy speculation? Pfft! ;)
>
>> Adding the call to that method again will make the actions reappear.
>
> I’ll see if there’s an issue open for this already and if not, I’ll create
> one.
>
>> Btw. should this part of the conversation be moved to the dev-list?
>
> Only if it was going to go on and on from here, but I doubt it.

>
> --
> Rob McBroom
> <http://www.skurfer.com/>
>
>
>

> Rob McBroom <mailin...@skurfer.com> Mar 31 10:57AM -0400 ^
>
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Rob McBroom wrote:
>
>>> Adding the call to that method again will make the actions reappear.
>
>> I’ll see if there’s an issue open for this already and if not, I’ll create
>> one.
>
> Didn’t see one, so I created it. Feel free to add more detail.
>
> https://github.com/quicksilver/Quicksilver/issues/160
>
> I didn’t even know you could define actions this way or I probably would
> have for the Viscosity plug-in. Good thing I didn’t or it wouldn’t work in
> B58.

>
> --
> Rob McBroom
> <http://www.skurfer.com/>
>
>
>

> Ankur Oberoi <aob...@gmail.com> Mar 31 01:11PM -0400 ^
>
> dev-list?
>
> can i have access to that? i've been meaning to contribute and I have some
> free time on the horizon.
>
>
>
>
> Rob McBroom <mailin...@skurfer.com> Mar 31 01:15PM -0400 ^
>
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 1:11 PM, Ankur Oberoi wrote:
>
>> dev-list?
>
>> can i have access to that? i've been meaning to contribute and I have some
>> free time on the horizon.
>
> Sure.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/quicksilver---development
>
> If you prefer to treat it like a mailing list, in theory you could send a
> message to [group name]+subs...@googlegroups.com, but I had problems with
> that.

[Patrick Robertson]

I'm getting an error when I try to run your template script in Terminal. I'm running (with and without the 'ruby' at the start)

"ruby ./plisttemplate.rb -v -p ~/Library/Application\ Support/Quicksilver/PlugIns -t template.erb -o ./overrides/ OnePassword.qsplugin"

and getting the error (I'm using Snow Leopard's pre-installed 'ruby 1.8.7 (2009-06-12 patchlevel 174) [universal-darwin10.0]' )

I'm not a ruby man, so I'm not sure what's up here.

[philostein]

Shall I update the template example at http://qsapp.com/wiki/Opera_Module,
or leave it for now?

On Apr 1, 2:31 pm, Patrick Robertson <robertson.patr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm getting an error when I try to run your template script in Terminal. I'm
> running (with and without the 'ruby' at the start)
>
> "ruby ./plisttemplate.rb -v -p ~/Library/Application\
> Support/Quicksilver/PlugIns -t template.erb -o ./overrides/
> OnePassword.qsplugin"
>
> and getting the error (I'm using Snow Leopard's pre-installed 'ruby 1.8.7
> (2009-06-12 patchlevel 174) [universal-darwin10.0]' )
>
> I'm not a ruby man, so I'm not sure what's up here.
>

> > > philostein <phildoo...@gmail.com> Mar 30 11:01PM -0700 ^

> > > philostein <phildoo...@gmail.com> Mar 30 11:04PM -0700 ^

>
> > > I've taken some of junk1's ideas and Patrick's wish to have fewer
>
> > > screenshots, and come up with this:
> > >http://qsapp.com/wiki/Opera_Module
>
> > > There's 4 sections:
>
> > > - Overview
> > > - Preference Items
> > > - Commands
> > > - Tutorials
>
> > > Some details:
>
> > > - Overview: A quick summary of what the plugin does with a interface
> > > window image (75% size jpg 20 kb).
>
> > > - Preference Items: What the plugin adds to Preferences. I've bulleted
> > > the navigation structure to hopefully make the items easier to find.
>
> > > - Commands: Instead of just Actions, I think it's better to list
> > > Commands. Plugins sometimes add objects (e.g., scripts, Address Book
> > > contacts) and catalog entries as well as actions. There's columns for
> > > extra requirements (e.g., Proxy Objects catalog entry needs to be
> > > checked) and notes.
>
> > > - Tutorials: Videos, walkthroughs, hints and tips here.
>
> > > I think it'll be easier to see all the info while still being compact.
>
> > > Let me know if you think. If this is a goer, I'll add a template page
>
> > > to the wiki to make it easier for anyone to add pages.
>

> > > Rob McBroom <mailingli...@skurfer.com> Mar 31 08:35AM -0400 ^

>
> > > On Mar 31, 2011, at 2:04 AM, philostein wrote:
>
> > >> Let me know if you think. If this is a goer, I'll add a template page
>
> > >> to the wiki to make it easier for anyone to add pages.
>
> > > I like it, myself.
>
> > > I’ll bet we could achieve almost the same result automagically by looking
> > at
> > > a plug-in’s Info.plist (which I think is in the works) but until then,
> > this
> > > will be great.
>
> > > --
> > > Rob McBroom
> > > <http://www.skurfer.com/>
>

> > > Howard Melman <hmel...@gmail.com> Mar 31 10:33AM -0400 ^

> > > I've always warmed to the idea of...
>
> read more »

[philostein]

>Why not use the "wikitable" class for the tables? (like the plugin ref) I
>think that looks nicer, and if we use classes in CSS it means it'll be easy
>to just update the styles in the future, as opposed to having to edit every
>page.

The bulleted lines in the column titles row get centred instead of to
the right of the preceding line. Perhaps there's a way of doing this
with wikitables? Someone could help out here - my knowledge is, shall
we say, hazy.

>I'm not even quite sure what the "info 'i' button" column actually means.
(Sorry!)

Any info for the plugin. I think that could go at the bottom of the
page though. I'll take it out.

>I have to agree with Howard on most of his points. I feel it should be as
>easily accessible as possible, especially for new comers. The big table is a
>bit in your face, and a few of the columns are left blank (I think this is
>because of the idea that we'll just copy/paste the template)

Yes, for the template. Can be removed for plugins that don't have
those items.

>All in all, good work and a good start.

Thanks! :)

On Apr 1, 6:48 am, Patrick Robertson <robertson.patr...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nice to get some kind of template/content up.
>
> I have to agree with Howard on most of his points. I feel it should be as
> easily accessible as possible, especially for new comers. The big table is a
> bit in your face, and a few of the columns are left blank (I think this is
> because of the idea that we'll just copy/paste the template)
>
> I'm not even quite sure what the "info 'i' button" column actually means.
> (Sorry!)
>
> Why not use the "wikitable" class for the tables? (like the plugin ref) I
> think that looks nicer, and if we use classes in CSS it means it'll be easy
> to just update the styles in the future, as opposed to having to edit every
> page.
>
> All in all, good work and a good start.
>
> Descending bullet points/lists are good, tutorials are good and some images
> are good.
> ... maybe sooner rather than later we should set up some kind of donations
> scheme going for keeping the site online. It's still not costing me a penny,
> but bandwidth is ramping up rapidly (due to the success of the site!)
>

[Eric DP]

I have published a gist of a first shot at generating wiki pages from
the plists.
If you need any gems, please run: sudo gem install plist tilt yaml
https://gist.github.com/898835

An example command line for generating the page for the OnePassword,
QSOpera and Finder modules:
git clone git://gist.github.com/898835.git plist_template_gist
cd plist_template_gist
./plisttemplate.rb -t template.erb -o ./overrides/ -v OnePassword
QSOpera 'Finder Module'

It works by looking for the modules in a bunch of folders, and for
each bundle, loading it's plist. Then it merges in the values from an
overrides file in the overrides/ folder with the right bundle id as a
filename. This is where I'm storing things like the youtube link, or
descriptive texts that aren't in the plist.

It then outputs a bundleid.txt in the current folder with the wiki
template for that bundle.

This got me thinking that it might be interesting to generate them all
at once so we can cross reference. For example, to have a wiki page
describing which plugins can be applied to an object of type File, and
which plugins add File-objects to the catalog (though it seems this is
not available from the plist). One can also easily imagine an index of
actions for example.

I am very sorry I didn't use the nice template you have been working
on, I'm not sure it's possible to generate it automatically, and I
focused (as is obvious from the result) on getting it to work first.
If there is any interest I will convert the gist to repository, I
think it's possible. There is however still much work left, for
example no effort is made to read localised names (which causes the
Finder module's actions to be empty), I'm looking into that.

Regards,
Eric

[philostein]

Thanks for your input. I've responded to most of the points you
raised:

>The Overview example text could use a little more detail.

Done.

> I like the information but not necessarily the layout of the giant grids with mostly empty space. I don't understand why having an info button should have the important first spot. The most important thing that plugins add are Actions and Catalog items and I think those should be first in that order.

The order of the columns is important as sometimes you have to check
the '+' button before you get the catalog entries, before you get the
actions, etc. I left them on the page I created at http://qsapp.com/wiki/Plugin_Templates,
but removed the empty columns from the Opera Module.

> I do like the hierarchy being shown in the catalog and the type for actions but it took me a little to figure it out. Maybe bolding the actions and catalog entries like they are in the Commands section to make them stand out?

Done.

> In commands I don't understand "Items in brackets are additional instructions." I don't see brackets, [], though I do see parenthesis ().

Parenthesis = brackets (In my head). Fixed.

> And it looks like additional instructions are in the Extra Requirements and Notes columns.

Made the explanation above the table clearer.

> I believe Proxy Objects requires Advanced Features to be enabled so that should be listed in requirements and you probably shouldn't start off with something that requires Advanced Features.

Done.

>Also Current Web Page comes from the Safari plugin (which should be in requirements) so while it works, it probably shouldn't be here at all since it's the same as URL.What I'd do in this case is under Operas current web page, in the note I'd say not to be confused with the badly named Current web page proxy object which refers only to Safari's current page.

Added the Safari Module condition. I like it because I find it's the
most useful Command. I realise it's subjective, but I think it's worth
promoting such Commands. Added a 'Current Web Page' explanation.

>For the Copy from Opera to scripts I think it's useful to list them all on their own line and not just in the note say there are others. I'm guessing there's are copy to Opera variants and currently I don't know their name.

Anyone want to do this?

> Is "Operas open tabs" a proxy object or only available via right-arrow into Opera.app? I assume Opera needs to be running for this so that should be in the notes. I'd think these things should be grouped together and not separated by a proxy object example. Maybe these should be up in the preferences items section but I'm not sure how.

Changed the Object to an instruction. Moved the row up.

> I appreciate that saying "(Text and URL actions)" tells you a list of available actions but I think I still want to see specific examples. I'm not sure what I'd do with an open tab other than show or close and these aren't text or URL actions.

The open tabs resolve as URLs. I changed the Action to an instruction.
I don't think it's a good idea to put examples in the table, that's
what the tutorials are for. Using Opera's current tab URLs is in the
video.

>I assume searches work with Find With... and Search For... which require the Web Searches plugin and probably should be listed explicitly for people to find and need something in the third pane (its listed as blank).

Wouldn't the URL have to contain *** as the search parameter? It's
unlikely that someone would have that as an open tab URL and want to
use it with an action. Is there any Opera exclusive Commands that
would use search URLs?


I also put links to the Commands and (unfinished) Preferences pages
for explanation, and added a plugin info section at the bottom.

Cheers, Phil.

[junk1]

> I don't think it's a good idea to put examples in the table, that's
what the tutorials are for.

Yeah. I think I this is the way to go. After looking at the latest
update I can really appreciate the need for a clean separation.

I really think the template is coming along nicely. Good work!

[Patrick]

I really like what's happening. I still think we should use the
default wiki style for the tables otherwise it'll break things in
later days.

I've created a test wiki and you can read about it here:
http://groups.google.com/group/quicksilver---development/browse_thread/thread/7430b64cbb07cc9d

so that we can play with plugin templates and maybe skinning/themes.

I think this is also an appropriate time to move the topic to the
developer discussions, so post in the above thread from now on please!

[Howard Melman]

Looks good. A few comments below

On Apr 2, 2011, at 4:15 AM, philostein wrote:

>> Also Current Web Page comes from the Safari plugin (which should be in requirements) so while it works, it probably shouldn't be here at all since it's the same as URL.What I'd do in this case is under Operas current web page, in the note I'd say not to be confused with the badly named Current web page proxy object which refers only to Safari's current page.
>
> Added the Safari Module condition. I like it because I find it's the
> most useful Command. I realise it's subjective, but I think it's worth
> promoting such Commands. Added a 'Current Web Page' explanation.

I agree that useful examples are a good thing. In the manual I tried to separate out feature documentation from specific ways that I or others use Quicksilver. Maybe a separate Tips section? Maybe there's no need to separate it but in thinking about use cases, if need to lookup something about a plugin, I don't want to have to meander through extra stuff.

>> I assume searches work with Find With... and Search For... which require the Web Searches plugin and probably should be listed explicitly for people to find and need something in the third pane (its listed as blank).
>
> Wouldn't the URL have to contain *** as the search parameter? It's
> unlikely that someone would have that as an open tab URL and want to
> use it with an action. Is there any Opera exclusive Commands that
> would use search URLs?

I was referring to the "searches" part of "Opera bookmarks and searches". I assume these are search engines for the search box (like google or imdb) and have *** or %s in their URL (and both work with QS). If not, then I really don't understand what the plugin is doing :)

Howard

[philostein]

On Apr 3, 10:08 am, Howard Melman <hmel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks good. A few comments below

> I agree that useful examples are a good thing. In the manual I tried to separate out feature documentation from specific ways that I or others use Quicksilver. Maybe a separate Tips section? Maybe there's no need to separate it but in thinking about use cases, if need to lookup something about a plugin, I don't want to have to meander through extra stuff.

I'll put a link to the Safari Module (when it exists) in the Extra
Requirements section. You're right, viewing many pages is not ideal,
perhaps just the odd link to further uses is acceptable as a way to
show how plugins can interact to increase the power of QS.

> I was referring to the "searches" part of "Opera bookmarks and searches". I assume these are search engines for the search box (like google or imdb) and have *** or %s in their URL (and both work with QS). If not, then I really don't understand what the plugin is doing :)

Got you. I don't understand what it does either, it's not working in
my ß58 10.6. :P But I think you're right, the search URLs are stored
in Opera in a way that causes QS to show the Find With… and Search
For… Actions.

I'll post any futher er, posts in the Developer's Group.

Cheers, Phil.

[philostein]

I've updated the Plugins Template page:
http://qsapp.com/wiki/Plugins_Template

Placeholders are in Caps. It's pretty easy to add pages now…

Definitely the last post here on this topic - moving to the Developers
thread.