Trying to connect a BK-0010 to a NEC Multisync II

[blue lander]

Hi,

I recently bought a BK-0010 01 and tried to connect it to my multisync
monitor. The picture is stable horizontally, but it rolls vertically.
I tried connecting an LM1881 directly to the composite sync output of
the K1801VP1-037, but the picture still rolls if I hook the Csync
output of the LM1881 up to my monitor. The vertical sync output of the
LM1881 just holds at 5 volts, as if it can't pull a vertical sync out
of the sync signal.Every so often, completely at random, the picture
stops rolling and everything works fine. But then after a few minutes
it starts rolling again.

Is there anything I'm missing here? The sync signal looks pretty
normal on an oscilloscope.

[nierveze]

hello ,first it is late but happy new year of all the members of the group.
with an oscilloscope and a frequency meter check the signals (frequency
,amplitude and shape of signals)at the output of the video generator of
bk,at the input of the lm1881,at its output and at the input of the video
monitor.Everywhere!!!
I am thinking of:

1)a broken lm1881,chose another one,check its power supply
2)a broken monitor,but sure you tested it with another signal source,did
you?
3)interference on vertical synch ,did you use shielded wire?
4)a broken bk!!!but let's not think of that at first!!!
hope it helped you ,all the bk I have I use simple composite video monitors
,like the ones used
on video circuits.
best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "blue lander" <cco...@apcoworldwide.com>
À : "БК-0010 - советский персональный компьютер" <bk0...@googlegroups.com>
Envoyé : mardi 20 janvier 2009 18:14
Objet : [bk0010] Trying to connect a BK-0010 to a NEC Multisync II

[Leo Broukhis]

Hi,

My guess is that the signal levels are borderline for the LM1881. What
is the voltage range of the sync signal coming from the BK?

Leo

[nierveze]

hello here is a company I have found on the web,they make wonderful
qbus/1806bm2 compatible circuits
http://www.npofizika.ru/microcircuits.htm
do they sell to individuals?
are they expensive?
with this a pdp11 compatible machine could be in the hand!!as I have
understood a single dl11 compatible in a single circuit.And sure it could
work also with dec processors like the t11.
the same question about angstrem ,do they sell to individuals?has someone in
the group tried to buy from them?
Thanks best regards
alain nierveze

[Serge V.]

Hi,

Some of these chips sells rtkt.ru: http://www.rtkt.ru/catalog/search/?query=1582%C2%C63

There also exists an analog of T-11, named 1807BM1, with built-in
memory controller. You could buy it from trigger.ru.

I found a schematics and PCB of a board based on 1807BM1:
http://groups.google.ru/group/bk0010/web/1807s1W2.sch
http://groups.google.ru/group/bk0010/web/R1807S1W3.pcb

As a bonus, a PDP11 handbook: http://groups.google.ru/group/bk0010/web/PDP%2011%20Handbook%201969.pdf
:)
___
Best wishes,
Serge

[blue lander]

Thanks for the quick help! I eventually got it to work with my monitor
by substituting the resistor on the lm1881 with a smaller value. Now
it works 100%.

It looks like the csync coming out of the BK-0010 is only about 2
volts peak to peak. The lm1881 outputted 5 volts peak to peak but it
still wouldn't work with my monitor unless I used seperate vertical
sync. I have that monitor connected to 1980's computers from the US,
Japan, and the UK and they all worked without any modification. This
is the only computer that gave it problems. Maybe it can't handle
SECAM frequencies.

Can I ask two more questions? Can I put the BK-0010 into "black and
white" mode? Some games look really bad in color, much clearer in b&w
on an emulator.

Second question: Can I connect the BK-0010 to a QBUS backplane from a
PDP-11 or VAX? I'd like to have a floppy drive, and I'm hoping I can
use the floppy controller from my PDP-11.

[Leo Broukhis]

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:35 PM, blue lander <cco...@apcoworldwide.com> wrote:

> It looks like the csync coming out of the BK-0010 is only about 2
> volts peak to peak. The lm1881 outputted 5 volts peak to peak but it
> still wouldn't work with my monitor unless I used seperate vertical
> sync. I have that monitor connected to 1980's computers from the US,
> Japan, and the UK and they all worked without any modification. This
> is the only computer that gave it problems. Maybe it can't handle
> SECAM frequencies.

BK-0010 was adapted to Soviet color TVs, whatever levels they were
using in the middle of their color tract.

> Can I ask two more questions? Can I put the BK-0010 into "black and
> white" mode? Some games look really bad in color, much clearer in b&w
> on an emulator.

There is a separate b/w output jack (coaxial).

> Second question: Can I connect the BK-0010 to a QBUS backplane from a
> PDP-11 or VAX? I'd like to have a floppy drive, and I'm hoping I can
> use the floppy controller from my PDP-11.

That I don't know, sorry.

Leo

[nierveze]

hello you can ask as many question as you wish:-))
on the connector where you put the focal block or the floppy controller
there are all (or nearly all ,I did not check exactly) the signals of the
qbus but without the bus drivers ,only ttl level signlas.The timing ,the
dialogue of signals the processor is also very close of the specifications
of Digital.It may be possible to interface the bk with a qbus ,it was never
done ,but it would be interresting.

best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "blue lander" <cco...@apcoworldwide.com>
À : "БК-0010 - советский персональный компьютер" <bk0...@googlegroups.com>

Envoyé : mercredi 21 janvier 2009 21:35
Objet : [bk0010] Re: Trying to connect a BK-0010 to a NEC Multisync II

[nierveze]

thanks Serge ,I have found lots of things ,not very expensive.Best wishes
also.
alain

----- Message d'origine -----

De : "Serge V." <serge.v...@gmail.com>

À : "БК-0010 - советский персональный компьютер" <bk0...@googlegroups.com>

Envoyé : mercredi 21 janvier 2009 16:21
Objet : [bk0010] Re: it may be interresting to use 1806bm2

[blue lander]

Hmm, I don't think I have the engineering skills to build a TTL to
tristate bus driver. I can't really make sense of the BK-0010 pinout
either since I don't understand Russian. I don't think I'll be able to
find a BK floppy controller in the US either.

On Jan 21, 5:23 pm, "nierveze" <nierv...@radio-astronomie.com> wrote:
> hello  you can ask as many question as you wish:-))
> on the connector where you put the focal block or the floppy controller
> there are all (or nearly all ,I did not check exactly) the signals of the
> qbus but without the bus drivers ,only ttl level signlas.The timing ,the
> dialogue of signals the processor is also very close of the specifications
> of Digital.It  may be possible to interface the bk with a qbus ,it was never
> done ,but it would be interresting.
> best regards
> alain nierveze
> ----- Message d'origine -----

> De : "blue lander" <ccol...@apcoworldwide.com>

[Leo Broukhis]

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:40 PM, blue lander <cco...@apcoworldwide.com> wrote:
>
> Hmm, I don't think I have the engineering skills to build a TTL to
> tristate bus driver. I can't really make sense of the BK-0010 pinout
> either since I don't understand Russian. I don't think I'll be able to
> find a BK floppy controller in the US either.

The only non-trivial chip that is needed for the BK floppy controller
is 1801ВП1-128
(1801vp1-128) - it is a PLA that serves as a serial/parallel
converter, detects and forms the markers, and computes the CRC.The
rest are standard.

Surprisingly, it is still listed on
http://radiozip.ru/original.asp?numb=6&incl=4
but you have to propose your price and they will decide if they want
to sell it to you. :(

Connecting an IDE interface is a more tractable task. Just a few
address decoders, registers and muxes are needed.

Leo

[blue lander]

Does the 1801vp1-128 have a Western equivalent? I found the pinouts,
and it looks a lot different than the FDCs that Western Digital made
at the time.

On Jan 21, 7:09 pm, Leo Broukhis <l...@mailcom.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:40 PM, blue lander <ccol...@apcoworldwide.com> wrote:
>
> > Hmm, I don't think I have the engineering skills to build a TTL to
> > tristate bus driver.  I can't really make sense of the BK-0010 pinout
> > either since I don't understand Russian. I don't think I'll be able to
> > find a BK floppy controller in the US either.
>
> The only non-trivial chip that is needed for the BK floppy controller
> is 1801ВП1-128
> (1801vp1-128) - it is a PLA that serves as a serial/parallel
> converter, detects and forms the markers, and computes the CRC.The
> rest are standard.
>

> Surprisingly, it is still listed onhttp://radiozip.ru/original.asp?numb=6&incl=4

[Leo Broukhis]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:29 AM, blue lander <cco...@apcoworldwide.com> wrote:
>
> Does the 1801vp1-128 have a Western equivalent? I found the pinouts,
> and it looks a lot different than the FDCs that Western Digital made
> at the time.

I don't think so. All Western equivalents that I've heard of handled
the track/sector structure in hardware. 1801vp1-128 only deals with
the MFM encoding and the CRCs, the rest is done in software.

Leo

[blue lander]

Oh well. I guess an IDE Adapter would be best. Are there any
schematics on how to build one? I'm guessing it's just something to
decode chip select logic and a buffer or two. http://bk0010.narod.ru/docs.html
Seems to have a general description of how to do it, but no
schematics. It's hard to make heads or tails of Babelfish's automatic
translation of it, though. My girlfriend can speak Russian but she
isn't very technical, I'll ask her to take a look at it.



On Jan 22, 12:41 pm, Leo Broukhis <l...@mailcom.com> wrote:

[Leo Broukhis]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:24 PM, blue lander <cco...@apcoworldwide.com> wrote:
>
> Oh well. I guess an IDE Adapter would be best. Are there any
> schematics on how to build one? I'm guessing it's just something to
> decode chip select logic and a buffer or two. http://bk0010.narod.ru/docs.html
> Seems to have a general description of how to do it, but no
> schematics. It's hard to make heads or tails of Babelfish's automatic
> translation of it, though. My girlfriend can speak Russian but she
> isn't very technical, I'll ask her to take a look at it.

If you want to have an adapter that is compatible with the existing
software (and the BIOS), it is a little more complex - you'll need a
ROM and a little RAM that support the Qbus memory protocol (the RAM is
for the partition table cache), but I believe that they are easier to
find or to reproduce than an obscure FDC. One thing to note: there
were no inverters on the controllers, so the data on the
BK-partitioned drives appears as one-complement.
And to save on address decoding logic, one of the word-sized registers
has an odd address.

Leo

[nierveze]

hello an ide to qbus adapter was built years ago by someone in ukraine look:
ftp://ftp.bluefeathertech.com/computing/hardware/DECStuff/QBus-IDE
he also describes the driver and similar adapter for unibus
to understand the schematic of your bk ,if you need to translate integraded
circuits from russian to western ,a correspondance chart
has been uploaded in the bkgroup,see section files.Also was uploaded a text
in russian about the processor ,with detailed pinout and timing of signals.

best regards
alain nierveze
----- Message d'origine -----

De : "blue lander" <cco...@apcoworldwide.com>

À : "БК-0010 - советский персональный компьютер" <bk0...@googlegroups.com>

Envoyé : jeudi 22 janvier 2009 21:24

Objet : [bk0010] Re: Trying to connect a BK-0010 to a NEC Multisync II