Immigration
GREGORY DUDLEY
Re: your comments to me about immigration exams, etc. Zahir once wrote
on the network that we should not force the American "culture" (white
culture?) on those who come here to live...to some extent I agree with him.
However, if immigrants (legal or otherwise) come to the country, live in their
own enclaves/neighborhoods without too much interaction with mainstream USA
culture, can we not argue that the country might be more fragmented culturally
than it already is? Comments, X-CULT members?
Greg
Mr. Hiro Toyota
to some extent....."
Yeah... 'To some extent' is a wonderful expression. To some
extent, I am enforced to use English every day. I am enforced to
eat something available at the local grocery store every day. I am
enforced to do a school work just like majority US citizens who
were born on the continent. (I mean I like these, that's why I am
here, you know.)
If immigrants who come to the US insist not to follow
norms/culture we have here in the US, then why did they come? If
they want to live in this country, they should follow rules and
regulations we have here. It is OK for immigrants to live in ethnic
communities where they can use their native languages, but they
also need to learn to assimilate into 'systems' (whether they like
it or not) in this country. If they resist doing this, then don't
mention about discrimination.
A few years ago, I think it was in Wisconsin paper, one readers'
comment is to give a better driving education to newly arrived
Asian refugees. A readers opinions is that these refugees do not
know how to drive cars properly on roads. Some people were upset
with this comment. I didn't take this comment as racism or
prejudice rather I thought it was a good suggestion.
That is all for now.
Hiro Toyota
Fleet Teachout
> "We should not force the American 'culture' on immigrants....
> to some extent....."
Nor should immigrants force their 'cultures' on Americans.
> It is OK for immigrants to live in ethnic
> communities where they can use their native languages, but they
> also need to learn to assimilate into 'systems' (whether they like
> it or not) in this country. If they resist doing this, then don't
> mention about discrimination.
I agree with this wholeheartedly! I think pockets of foreign 'cultures'
are good for the American culture. We seem to absorb parts of these
cultures - food items, dress modes, even thought processes occassionally.
There may also be some 'bad' that comes with this merging of cultures.
Would there be - possibly - any direct correlation between the number of
immigrants to America and the literacy rate here??
- fleet -
Bill
What do you think are the dynamics of cultural absorbtion?
And, what is the difference between absorbing culture from
afar (border trading--international relations) and absorbing from
within (where various groups negociate for control of one country's
resources)?
Bill.
.......................
.. B Keeth 1993 ..
....................... (as...@inre.asu.edu)
Fleet Teachout
> Fleet,
>
> What do you think are the dynamics of cultural absorbtion?
>
This is like saying "Go over and lift that elephant." A short statement,
the meaning of which is crystal clear - but I'm not sure I'm up to the task.
When I first saw the question, my mind went in 15 different directions
more or less simultaneously. Let me gather my thoughts and get back to you.
In the meantime....
> And, what is the difference between absorbing culture from
> afar (border trading--international relations) and absorbing from
Any intercultural contact stands to result in culture trading. I don't
believe physical distance has much to do with it. The point is
whether the cultural border is crossed. Isn't Chinatown (in DC or San
Francisco) about as culturally removed from the American mainstream as
Hong Kong?
> within (where various groups negociate for control of one country's
> resources)?
You lost me here. Are you referring to a situation similar to what now
exists in the former USSR where over 100 ethnic groups are poised to duke
it out for regional ethnic purity? I don't think there is going to be
much culture trading there; although we may lose a few cultures.
- fleet -
Bill
Couldn't we consider "institutional descrimination" and statements
like "Yes I'm a citizen; but I'm still a Mexican and Viva la patria!) two
different sides to an intercultural conflict--different sides in a struggle
for power (political/economic)? Although these struggles still aren't as
violent as in Russia, they can be. How should we interpret the black
american struggles of the 60's--discrimination or cultural confrontation?
And what do we call the results--national cultural absorbtion, assimilation,
mainstreaming, or new cultural production? International relations
usually don't threaten whole national identities, unless they envolve a war.
However, each day our intercultural relations do. I believe they can go as
deep as shaking the very foundations of our constitution--for this reason
I don't advocate an English Only version of the constitution.
I guess my way of asking you to "go lift that elephant" is in a sense
my attempt at reasuring you that there are various levels to this thing
called "cultural absorbtion". Although I claim to be no expert, I am
aware that the dynamics of this phenomena range from "diglossia" to
"war"--whichever scale we prefer.
But I will agree with you in the sense that cultural mixture can
be very rewarding--from food to the most elaborate abstractions.
Just me again,
Fleet Teachout
> Couldn't we consider "institutional descrimination" and statements
> like "Yes I'm a citizen; but I'm still a Mexican and Viva la patria!) two
> different sides to an intercultural conflict--different sides in a struggle
> for power (political/economic)?
If this is a conflict, it is intrapersonal, not intercultural ("Yes, I
have US citizenship, but I'm really still a Mexican citizen - therefore
I'm living a lie.).
Wouldn't it be better to say "Yes, I'm a citizen; and I'm proud of my
Mexican heritage."?
> Although these struggles still aren't as
> violent as in Russia, they can be. How should we interpret the black
> american struggles of the 60's--discrimination or cultural confrontation?
The 1860's or 1960's?? Or does it matter which? These were political
struggles against a history of suppression. I think these struggles
resulted in an awareness of the right to have a black culture - or black
cultures.
The Native Americans went through much the same process in the 1970's and
1980's.
> And what do we call the results--national cultural absorbtion, assimilation,
> mainstreaming, or new cultural production?
> International relations
> usually don't threaten whole national identities, unless they envolve a war.
> However, each day our intercultural relations do. I believe they can go as
> deep as shaking the very foundations of our constitution--for this reason
> I don't advocate an English Only version of the constitution.
I disagree with multiple 'official' languages. I think English should be
taught as the primary language in our schools and it should be the
language of our government.
Ran out of on-line time!!! Catch you again tomorrow!
- fleet -
Alfredo Peine
are as important as the one who lives among regular americans. Guess how come
that americans like Chinese and Italian food??? These people used to live in
isolated groups, and took some time until they were absorbed by the american
society, and they did not destroy the Americans nor were destroyed by them, it
just a case of perfect union of them.
Alfredo P. Jara
ape...@fem.unicamp.br