MIPS or MSUs?

[Mick Poil]

A poll - do you think of Processor Capacity in terms of MIPS or MSUs?

Mike

[Max Deetjen]

MIPS

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Subject: MIPS or MSUs?

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A poll - do you think of Processor Capacity in terms of MIPS or MSUs?

Mike

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[van Sleeuwen, Berry]

MIPS.

Met vriendelijke groet/With kind regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Berry van Sleeuwen
Flight Forum 3000 5657 EW Eindhoven

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Subject: MIPS or MSUs?

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A poll - do you think of Processor Capacity in terms of MIPS or MSUs?

Mike

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MIPS

 

Em Sex 05/02/21 13:54, Mick Poil michael...@gmail.com escreveu:

A poll - do you think of Processor Capacity in terms of MIPS or MSUs?

Mike

[jeur...@gmail.com]

MIPS

-----Original Message-----
From: VSE-L <vse-l-bounces+jeurellbh=gmai...@lists.lehigh.edu> On Behalf
Of Mick Poil
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 11:54 AM
To: vs...@lehigh.edu
Subject: MIPS or MSUs?

[David Stuart]

According to a performance expert from the Boeblingen Lab (unfortunately, I can't remember his name), MIPS stands for Meaningless Indicator of Processor Speed. 

But then, I'm not sure that MSU is any better. What is MSU - Mean Service Units? Whatever they are... But they are supposedly a better indicator of System throughput than MIPS. 

At least according to the gentleman from the Lab. 

Dave 

 

[Carey Barlow]

MIPS

Carey Barlow
Systems programmer
Howard Industries, Inc.
Email: cba...@howard-ind.com
Phone: 601-422-1465

[Martin Truebner]

MIPS

David,

Are you thinking of Willi Mild?

--
Martin Trübner; everything around "PoOps of z/arch"

Teichstraße 39E
D-63225 Langen

F: +49 6103 71254
M: +49 171 850 7132
E: mar...@pi-sysprog.de

[Tony Thigpen]

MSU

With everything from Z10 to Z14 on my floor, I had to convert to MSU
thinking. The MIPS per MSU is not exactly the same between all the machines.

Also, for the VSE vendor products I also sell, I have converted all the
pricing to MSU and I no longer use MIPS for the different tiers.

Tony Thigpen

Mick Poil wrote on 2/5/21 11:54 AM:

> A poll - do you think of Processor Capacity in terms of MIPS or MSUs?
>
> Mike
>

[David Stuart]

Hi Martin, 

No, it wasn't Willi Mild. It was another gentleman. He made the statement about MIPS during a presentation at a WAVV conference in the very late 90's, or early '00's. 

Dave 

[Mick Poil]

MIPS can be accurately calculated, but not by any tool that runs on VSE, only on VM and z/OS.

MSUS came from MVS AFAIK and did not necessarily have a direct relationship with MIPS over the years, although I think it is now. LSPR shows both.

[David Stuart]

That sounds right. 

Dave 

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 9:27 AM McShane, Michael <mmcs...@krasdalefoods.com> wrote:

Wolfgang Kraemer?

 

From: VSE-L <vse-l-bounces+mmcshane=krasdale...@lists.lehigh.edu> On Behalf Of David Stuart
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 12:20 PM
To: VSE Discussion List <vs...@lists.lehigh.edu>
Subject: Re: MIPS or MSUs?

 

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[Juha Vuori]

MSUs.

In my thinking, MIPS include also i/o processing.

Juha

> On 5.2.2021, at 18.54, Mick Poil <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A poll - do you think of Processor Capacity in terms of MIPS or MSUs?
>
> Mike
>

[John Imholte]

MIPS.

But I'm old school.

VM/SP and DOS r34 is where I started.

--

Sincerely,

John Imholte

[Mick Poil]

MIPS based on GHz and Cycles Per Instruction as measured by CPUMF. You have to use an SSCH instruction to start I/O and instructions are used to handle I/O (and all other) interrupts from the async channel operations (async in most cases). Pure MIPS would only be seen in a disabled, and unproductive, loop ;-)

[Mick Poil]

DOS R26 for me.

[Steve Weifenbach]

Per Tony, if software tiering is based on MSU, I have to use that.

However, I picture both MIP and MSU alongside a lightyear or parsec. For me, it is only good in relativity of one machine to another. If I have the same metric for both machines, I can relate.

I do the same with the metric system since I grew up in the US.

Best regards,
Steve Weifenbach
Contractor, Mainframe Systems
steve.we...@hanescompanies.com
+1 336-747-1691

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[Jim Elliott]

It really depends.

MIPS are a useful tool to compare two capacity settings, but with a huge grain of salt (always do a performance study). If you look at LSPR MIPS in zPCR at https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/getting-started-zpcr-ibms-processor-capacity-reference you see that there are a range of MIPS for any capacity setting depending on the workload category. Run your VM monitor data or z/OS SMF data through CP3KEXTR/CP3KVMXT to create an EDF and load that into zPCR. For example, a z14 H01 is 216.00 MIPS (average) per LSPR but with EDF from real monitor data zPCR reports 238.13 MIPS. If you are a native z/VSE shop, get your friendly IBM/BP tech to process CPUMON data for you into an EDF.

When it comes to MSUs, do you mean "Millions of Service Units" (hardware MSUs) or IBM's software licensing MSUs?

You can calculate the hardware MSUs with the info at https://www-01.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/lib03060.nsf/pages/srmindex and this equation:

     MSUs = ((SU/SEC * #CP)/1000000)*3600

Software MSUs should not be used for anything other than software price calculations. You can make a rough estimate of Software MSUs by dividing the average LSPR MIPS by 8 (+/- 1 or 2 MSUs) but the official source is the exhibit at https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/WNOD2VZQ as LSPR MIPS may change as workloads change, but MSUs are fixed for the life of the product.

Jim Elliott

Senior IT Consultant - GlassHouse Systems Inc.

[Mick Poil]

I am not sure if I understood the above, but you can’t get MIPS from VSE cpu time. I have seen VSE MIPS vary by a huge amount at different times of the day depending on SIIS.

Mike

[Jim Elliott]

Mike: You can get MIPS from CPU Time, but only for a specific point in time, not a fixed value as you note. For some customers the available MIPS over time won't change, but I have seen many where the available MIPS go up and down quite a bit. Not just SIIS, but many of the items derived from CPUMF data (specifically RNI) as well as parking of processors affect available MIPS. Thus the reason for defining MIPS as a Misleading Indicator of Processor Speed.

Jim Elliott

Senior IT Consultant - GlassHouse Systems Inc.

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 5:34 PM Mick Poil <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am not sure if I understood the above, but you can’t get MIPS from VSE cpu time. I have seen VSE MIPS vary by a huge amount at different times of the day depending on SIIS.

Mike

[Mick Poil]

What I don’t understand is how we were talking about MIPS and then CPUMON cpu comes into the picture as there is not a consistent relationship between them.

FYI, I always use my VSEMON to look at VSE cpu time as it uses a DIAG interface to get an independent view of cpu usage.

Mike 

[Phil Lunder]

Yeah, me too.  ~’66 or 67?

 

Phil

 

From: Mick Poil
Sent: Friday, February 5, 2021 1:09 PM
To: vs...@lehigh.edu
Subject: Re: MIPS or MSUs?

 

DOS R26 for me.

[Jim Elliott]

Mike,

CPUMON can create a file which is used as input to zCP3000 (creates a lot of reports) which can create an EDF for input to zPCR which then reports MIPS.

Jim

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Jim Elliott
Mainframe Consultant
Sackville Consulting Services / GlassHouse Systems Inc.

[Robert Dougherty]

I think of it in terms of MIPS but MSU is the new way.  A bit like Miles and Kilometers.   I prefer MPH but getting used to the KPH.

 

Robert Dougherty

 

 

 

 

 

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[Mike M]

MIPS, its provides a simple comparable relative metric to assess -similar- systems. This would be akin to horsepower for vehicles. Both a Corvette and F-150 pickup have comparable horsepower. But, would you pull a mobile home with a sports car?