IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

207 views
Skip to first unread message

indust...@winwholesale.com

unread,
Nov 2, 2011, 10:51:42 AM11/2/11
to
        Anybody know approximately how many of these in the USA and/or how many worldwide?  Thanks.

Sincerely,

Dave Clark

WinWholesale Group Services
3110 Kettering Boulevard
Dayton, Ohio  45439  USA
(937) 294-5331



*********************************************************************************************
This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary information. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any error in transmission.
*********************************************************************************************

Rbo...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 2, 2011, 11:00:40 AM11/2/11
to
I recall reading something, on an IBM site of all places, that there were approximately 4,000 VSE sites worldwide. There was nothing mentioned regarding the breakdown of these sites. They did break down the number by North American, Europe and Asia but I do not remember the numbers.
_______________________________________________
VSE-L mailing list
VS...@lists.lehigh.edu
https://lists.lehigh.edu/mailman/listinfo/vse-l

ch...@arneycomputer.com

unread,
Nov 2, 2011, 11:11:20 AM11/2/11
to

I don't think anyone has all those numbers.  Of course IBM does have the numbers for the current systems, but even they don't have the numbers for the older systems because many of them were purchased systems and no one knows how many of them still exist.  And I don't think anyone with the numbers you are looking for will be able to respond to your request.

 

Chuck Arney

Arney Computer Systems

 


From: vse-l-bounces+chuck=arneycom...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+chuck=arneycom...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of indust...@winwholesale.com
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:28 AM
To: vs...@lists.Lehigh.EDU
Subject: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

Steve Huggins

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 1:02:44 AM11/3/11
to
This has always been in interesting number to come up with...
The best we can do is an educated guess...
Just to keep those "Due Diligence" guys off our backs...

More questions my get you closer to the actual figure...
"What percentage of VSE users use VSE-L...?" we (the user group) actually have the user count, we just need to factor it...

I suspect the number of users is in decline, but I can't prove that...

Huggy

Edward M Martin

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 8:56:27 AM11/3/11
to

Hello Dave,

 

            I have my own personal list of z/VM and z/VSE people.   I keep it updated as I feel like it.

With sections for USA, International,  IBM people, and a new z/OS section.

 

Nothing fancy.

 

No salespeople allowed.

 

Ed Martin

Aultman Health Foundation

330-363-5050

Ext 35050

Mike Robertson

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 11:40:02 AM11/3/11
to
Ed


I would love to see your list. I am going to my board for a z114 in the next couple of weeks.
I am not too interested in who but how many and where.
If this is a problem dont worry about it, I think we are going to get an oky anyway.



Mike Robertson
ITS Supervisor
Rock River Water Reclamation District
>>> "Edward M Martin" <EMa...@aultman.com> 11/03/11 7:56 AM >>>
(937) 294-5331 <tel:%28937%29%20294-5331>



************************************************************************
*********************
This email message and any attachments is for use only by the named
addressee(s) and may contain confidential, privileged and/or proprietary
information. If you have received this message in error, please
immediately notify the sender and delete and destroy the message and all
copies. All unauthorized direct or indirect use or disclosure of this
message is strictly prohibited. No right to confidentiality or privilege
is waived or lost by any error in transmission.
************************************************************************
*********************
_______________________________________________
VSE-L mailing list
VS...@lists.lehigh.edu
https://lists.lehigh.edu/mailman/listinfo/vse-l




------- DISCLAIMER -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinary user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also be privileged. If you are not one of the addressees you may not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of the message or its attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context of this message that arise as a result of Internet transmission. Sender accepts no liability for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and are not given or endorsed by the Rock River Water Reclamation District (RRWRD) unless otherwise clearly indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so bind the RRWRD referred to is duly verified.
------- DISCLAIMER --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ronald Campbell

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 12:44:08 PM11/3/11
to

I don't think anyone knows the real answer to this, not even IBM. There are
many factors that play into the question so trying to find the right number
is very difficult. In theory, if you searched through IBM's licensing
database and looked for any VSE accounts, you could probably come up with a
relatively close number of current accounts, those being on zVSE. The
problem comes in trying to find the older accounts. For example, there
where a lot of FLEX-ES based accounts that where sold at One Time Charge so
a license for VSE was put into the licensing database and it will stay
there until the company writes IBM a letter to discontinue it. The problem
is that nobody ever tells IBM to discontinue old license's. Auditors will
not allow us to discontinue license's unless we have authorization from the
customer but what happens if the customer no longer exists?? Remember
'common sense' died a number of years ago and we are now run by the legal
implications of doing anything. As an example of this, the GM Firebird
plant in Quebec still has a 4331 running VSE according to our licensing
database but since the plant closed a number of years ago and we can't find
anyone in GM who can authorize the discontinuance, it will sit there
forever. We also have the problem where accounts have specifically said 'DO
NOT send any mail or try to contact me'. Its the same as somebody selecting
'do not send me email' when you sign up for something because you don't
want their junk. Now we have a customer who has something but due to legal
and privacy issues we can't even contact them. This also happens with
current customers. I remember doing some research because we wanted to send
all the VSE customer's a note about WAVV however due to privacy issues
there is no way we can even get a list. There are customer's who have told
us, DO NOT let anyone know that I am running IBM products so we have to
abide by their requests.

I see some VSE customer's moving off to other platforms but I believe is
has to do with applications and not because of VSE but that's just my
personal opinion, I have no proof.

Ronald (Ron) Campbell
zSeries Techline - zVSE, zVM, zLinux
Supporting DOS - DOS/VS - VSE/SP - VSE/ESA - zVSE since 1973
IBM Since 1967
IBM Canada, Toronto, Ontario
905-316-8337
internet=ronc...@ca.ibm.com

Paul L'Heureux

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 2:52:10 PM11/3/11
to

Ron,

 

That was very interesting. I am another one who wishes they knew how many VSE sites are still out there.

Sometimes I think that VSE is dying. Then I stop and think about how much VSE has going for it.

So much great work from so many great developers has gone into VSE. CICS and robust batch capabilities.

It is hard to believe that something so good is disappearing off the face of the earth.

I would think that at least a ballpark  (plus or minus 5000?) number could be determined.

Would FSI know how many FLEX/VSE systems are out there?

 

 

Paul

Allan Peterson

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:09:46 PM11/3/11
to
I can recall many many years ago a similar discussion on the number of boxes running the various variants, that was quite high, but it turned out (someone can correct me) State Farms had one per office. There used to be 6 or so VSE sites in New Zealand.
Looks like I will still be here until mid 2012 , and yes we have on our project plan to formally notify IBM (we want the billing to stop) when we finally get the final OK.

Allan

From: vse-l-bounces+allan.peterson=revera...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+allan.peterson=revera...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of Paul L'Heureux
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 7:52 a.m.
To: 'vs...@lists.lehigh.edu'
Subject: Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

Edward M Martin

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:09:59 PM11/3/11
to

Hello Everyone,

 

I agree with Paul.   Plus, I keep hearing about the Asian ring going with z/VM-z/VSE system,  and in South America.

 

z/OS is so expensive that z/VM-z/VSE-z/LINUX is a significant cost savings.  Or at least, as I read and am told.

 

Ed Martin

Aultman Health Foundation

330-363-5050

Ext 35050

 

August....@avon.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:28:49 PM11/3/11
to


Its odd here, we run the U.S. branches, Brazil, Canada, on Z/os,
but run Mexico, UK, Italy, France, Germany, Spain to mention a few under
Z/VM - Z/VSE
we had Z/VM/Linux on IFL's up but could not convince the powers that be to
move prod to it.




"Edward M Martin"
<EMartin@aultman.
com> To
Sent by: "VSE Discussion List"
vse-l-bounces+aug <vs...@lists.lehigh.edu>
ust.carideo=avon. cc
c...@lists.lehigh.
edu Subject
RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE,
VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
11/03/2011 03:09
PM


Please respond to
VSE Discussion
List
<vs...@lists.lehi
gh.edu>
Paul_______________________________________________

Kevin Corkery

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:33:21 PM11/3/11
to

Interesting thought.  Is z/VM, z/VSE, and Linux for Z a more flexible solution for new development than z/OS?  In any case, I agree with Ron in that IBM may be hard pressed to really know the true number of “VSE” flavor shops out there.  Maybe it’s more appropriate to look at revenue generating shops.  If a one-time charge shop has stopped paying maintenance fees then there’s a good chance that they have frozen their commitment to the platform.   In any case, only revenue generating shops give IBM an incentive to actively maintain and develop the current z/VSE offering. 

 

From: vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of Edward M Martin


Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:10 PM
To: VSE Discussion List

Edward M Martin

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:37:02 PM11/3/11
to

Hello Kevin,

 

Having been just converted to z/OS from z/VM-z/VSE,  I can attest to the fact that z/OS is powerful, able to recover abends fast, and is the slowest developmental platform I have ever seen.

 

TSO is powerful but it is the EDLIN of Zseries editors.     Even ICCF has it beat.

 

Ed Martin

Aultman Health Foundation

330-363-5050

Ext 35050

 

August....@avon.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:50:07 PM11/3/11
to


that prob why we run over 150 OEM products on it LOL




"Edward M Martin"
<EMartin@aultman.
com> To
Sent by: "VSE Discussion List"
vse-l-bounces+aug <vs...@lists.lehigh.edu>
ust.carideo=avon. cc
c...@lists.lehigh.
edu Subject
RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE,
VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
11/03/2011 03:37
PM


Please respond to
VSE Discussion
List
<vs...@lists.lehi
gh.edu>






Tony Thigpen

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:50:13 PM11/3/11
to
Ed,

What did you really get out of the z/VSE to z/OS conversion? (Besides a
poor development platform.)


Tony Thigpen

-----Original Message -----
From: Edward M Martin
Sent: 11/03/2011 03:36 PM
> Hello Kevin,
>
> Having been just converted to z/OS from z/VM-z/VSE, I can attest to the
> fact that z/OS is powerful, able to recover abends fast, and is the
> slowest developmental platform I have ever seen.
>
> TSO is powerful but it is the EDLIN of Zseries editors. Even ICCF has it
> beat.
>
> Ed Martin
>
> Aultman Health Foundation
>
> 330-363-5050
>
> Ext 35050
>
> *From:*vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu
> [mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu] *On Behalf
> Of *Kevin Corkery
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:33 PM
> *To:* 'VSE Discussion List'
> *Subject:* RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
>
> Interesting thought. Is z/VM, z/VSE, and Linux for Z a more flexible
> solution for new development than z/OS? In any case, I agree with Ron in
> that IBM may be hard pressed to really know the true number of “VSE”
> flavor shops out there. Maybe it’s more appropriate to look at revenue
> generating shops. If a one-time charge shop has stopped paying
> maintenance fees then there’s a good chance that they have frozen their
> commitment to the platform. In any case, only revenue generating shops
> give IBM an incentive to actively maintain and develop the current z/VSE
> offering.
>
> *From:*vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu
> [mailto:vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Edward M Martin
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:10 PM
> *To:* VSE Discussion List
> *Subject:* RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I agree with Paul. Plus, I keep hearing about the Asian ring going with
> z/VM-z/VSE system, and in South America.
>
> z/OS is so expensive that z/VM-z/VSE-z/LINUX is a significant cost
> savings. Or at least, as I read and am told.
>
> Ed Martin
>
> Aultman Health Foundation
>
> 330-363-5050
>
> Ext 35050
>
> *From:*vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu
> <mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu>
> [mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu]
> <mailto:[mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu]> *On
> Behalf Of *Paul L'Heureux
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 2:52 PM
> *To:* 'vs...@lists.lehigh.edu'
> *Subject:* Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
>
> Ron,
>
> That was very interesting. I am another one who wishes they knew how
> many VSE sites are still out there.
>
> Sometimes I think that VSE is dying. Then I stop and think about how
> much VSE has going for it.
>
> So much great work from so many great developers has gone into VSE. CICS
> and robust batch capabilities.
>
> It is hard to believe that something so good is disappearing off the
> face of the earth.
>
> I would think that at least a ballpark (plus or minus 5000?) number
> could be determined.
>
> Would FSI know how many FLEX/VSE systems are out there?
>
> Paul
>
>
>

Kevin Corkery

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 3:54:21 PM11/3/11
to

My TSO experience is so long ago they did let the programmers use it … Roscoe and SuperWylbur were the environments of choice. 

Eshu...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:04:41 PM11/3/11
to
Hi Ed:
 
Hate to disagree but ICCF is nothing compared to the power in TSO.
 
Regards,
Gene
 

mick poil

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:08:09 PM11/3/11
to
Did you mean ISPF or TSO when comparing to ICCF? If it was ISPF, I would sure like a copy of your version of ICCF.

TSO I can understand, but who uses real TSO?

Xedit is still the best!

Kevin Corkery

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:10:53 PM11/3/11
to

Maybe TSO raw at the command line prompt is bad (that is EDLINish) but I do agree using the ISPF screens is quite good.  All editors have their good and bad points.   I’ve never found one that gave me everything I wanted; and I worked with a lot of different mainframe based editors over the years.

Rbo...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:21:45 PM11/3/11
to
State Farm wasn't the only company to have had VSE running in each office. There was at least one other insurance company that did that too.I also know of a grocery chain, based in Michigan, that did the same thing.
 
Back in the day I heard that VSE sites far outnumbered MVS sites. I also heard that for every one of these sites that converted to MVS two VSE sites came on board. This isn't happening today. 
I can recall many many years ago a similar discussion on the number of boxes running the various variants, that was quite high, but it turned out (someone can correct me) State Farms had one per office. There used to be 6 or so VSE sites in New Zealand.
Looks like I will still be here until mid 2012 , and yes we have on our project plan to formally notify IBM (we want the billing to stop) when we finally get the final OK.

Allan

From: vse-l-bounces+allan.peterson=revera...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+allan.peterson=revera...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of Paul L'Heureux
Sent: Friday, 4 November 2011 7:52 a.m.

Rbo...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:24:52 PM11/3/11
to
Ed,
 
<<TSO is powerful but it is the EDLIN of Zseries editors.     Even ICCF has it beat.>>
 
I'll certainly agree to that. I can't believe IBM has done nothing to improve TSO/ISPF.

To: 'vs...@lists.lehigh.edu'
Subject: Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Ron,

 

That was very interesting. I am another one who wishes they knew how many VSE sites are still out there.

Sometimes I think that VSE is dying. Then I stop and think about how much VSE has going for it.

So much great work from so many great developers has gone into VSE. CICS and robust batch capabilities.

It is hard to believe that something so good is disappearing off the face of the earth.

I would think that at least a ballpark  (plus or minus 5000?) number could be determined.

Would FSI know how many FLEX/VSE systems are out there?

 

 

Paul

Rbo...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:30:08 PM11/3/11
to
I forgot to add that there are a lot of companies that I know of that still run VSE (z/VSE) but no one ever hears about them. For example I know that some Ford Motor location runs 64, or was it 65, z/VSE LPAR's.

Edward M Martin

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:31:29 PM11/3/11
to
Hello Tony,

While many people will say nothing, We did get a major savings in
software and hardware costs. The site we are hosted at had all the
software and hardware. We did not have to upgrade.

We are working through the differences and finding the tool/information
on how to get the job done.


Ed Martin
Aultman Health Foundation
330-363-5050
Ext 35050


-----Original Message-----
From: vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu
[mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of
Tony Thigpen
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:52 PM
To: VSE Discussion List

Edward M Martin

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:38:58 PM11/3/11
to

Hello  Mick,

 

Yea I used the best from both.   XEDIT  is the best.

 

 

Ed Martin

Aultman Health Foundation

330-363-5050

Ext 35050

 

From: vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of mick poil
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:58 PM
To: VSE Discussion List
Subject: Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Did you mean ISPF or TSO when comparing to ICCF? If it was ISPF, I would sure like a copy of your version of ICCF.

mick poil

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:40:45 PM11/3/11
to
Back in the good old 80's, BT had at least 70 4300's with VM/VSE in the UK. They have long since been absorbed into what is now z/OS.

Does Avon still have a UK VSE presence? My old company (WDR Ltd.) had a software package running in the Bradford branch.

Eshu...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 4:59:51 PM11/3/11
to
Hi Ed:
 
As Mike mentioned, I really meant ISPF but to me TSO = ISPF. It has a lot of features which I have found quite useful that are not available in ICCF. We do all our development in z/OS ISPF and port it to ICCF.
 
Regards,
Gene
 
In a message dated 11/3/2011 4:46:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, EMa...@aultman.com writes:

Hello Gene,

 

            I agree that native TSO is quick powerful.   Finding how to do functions is very hard.   Or defining Screens to ISPF under TSO to make the system more user friendly.

I suspect that most of my problems are that I don’t know how to do functions that we knew how to do on z/VSE and z/VM.

 

            Like interactive Rexx.   I used it all the time on z/VM.   I am finally figuring out how to set it up in the TSO world.

 

Ed Martin

Aultman Health Foundation

330-363-5050

Ext 35050

 


Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 4:04 PM
To: vs...@lists.lehigh.edu

Subject: Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Hi Ed:

 

Hate to disagree but ICCF is nothing compared to the power in TSO.

 

Regards,

Gene

 

In a message dated 11/3/2011 3:37:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, EMa...@aultman.com writes:

Hello Kevin,

 

Having been just converted to z/OS from z/VM-z/VSE,  I can attest to the fact that z/OS is powerful, able to recover abends fast, and is the slowest developmental platform I have ever seen.

 

TSO is powerful but it is the EDLIN of Zseries editors.     Even ICCF has it beat.

 

Ed Martin

Aultman Health Foundation

330-363-5050

Ext 35050

 

From: vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of Kevin Corkery


Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:33 PM
To: 'VSE Discussion List'

Subject: RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Interesting thought.  Is z/VM, z/VSE, and Linux for Z a more flexible solution for new development than z/OS?  In any case, I agree with Ron in that IBM may be hard pressed to really know the true number of “VSE” flavor shops out there.  Maybe it’s more appropriate to look at revenue generating shops.  If a one-time charge shop has stopped paying maintenance fees then there’s a good chance that they have frozen their commitment to the platform.   In any case, only revenue generating shops give IBM an incentive to actively maintain and develop the current z/VSE offering. 

 

From: vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of Edward M Martin


Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:10 PM
To: VSE Discussion List

Subject: RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Hello Everyone,

 

I agree with Paul.   Plus, I keep hearing about the Asian ring going with z/VM-z/VSE system,  and in South America.

 

z/OS is so expensive that z/VM-z/VSE-z/LINUX is a significant cost savings.  Or at least, as I read and am told.

 

Ed Martin

Aultman Health Foundation

330-363-5050

Ext 35050


Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 2:52 PM
To: 'vs...@lists.lehigh.edu'

Subject: Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Ron,

 

That was very interesting. I am another one who wishes they knew how many VSE sites are still out there.

Sometimes I think that VSE is dying. Then I stop and think about how much VSE has going for it.

So much great work from so many great developers has gone into VSE. CICS and robust batch capabilities.

It is hard to believe that something so good is disappearing off the face of the earth.

I would think that at least a ballpark  (plus or minus 5000?) number could be determined.

Would FSI know how many FLEX/VSE systems are out there?

 

 

Paul



_______________________________________________
VSE-L mailing list
VS...@lists.lehigh.edu
https://lists.lehigh.edu/mailman/listinfo/vse-l

Eshu...@aol.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 5:15:09 PM11/3/11
to
Hi Ed:
 
Of course. I can also put you in contact with our expert on TSO/ISPF/REXX, if you want more information. Send me a note offline to coordinate.
 
Regards,
Gene
 
In a message dated 11/3/2011 5:11:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, EMa...@aultman.com writes:

Hello Gene,

 

I may have to talk to you more about productivity offline.  We are having lots of issues.

indust...@winwholesale.com

unread,
Nov 3, 2011, 6:15:56 PM11/3/11
to
vse-l-bounces+industrynews=winwhole...@lists.lehigh.edu wrote on 11/03/2011 03:32:55 PM:
> In any case, I
> agree with Ron in that IBM may be hard pressed to really know the
> true number of “VSE” flavor shops out there.  Maybe it’s more
> appropriate to look at revenue generating shops.


        I'd be happy with the total number of shops still paying monthly license or sub-capacity charges for any flavor of VSE -- with a split for USA vs. the rest of the world.

Sincerely,

Dave Clark

WinWholesale Group Services
3110 Kettering Boulevard
Dayton, Ohio  45439  USA
(937) 294-5331



*********************************************************************************************

Bo

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 8:31:47 AM11/4/11
to
I seem to recall at one of the early WAVV meetings (may have been the
first one held in Green Bay) that one of the IBM presentations had the
numbers by continent of the VSE sites. Lots of sites in SA and Asia.
Not as many in the US and Europe. I have to agree that I am not sure
if that number exists anywhere now.

We can discuss editors as well; In discussing them limit the
discussion to programmers performing source edit functions and XEDIT,
BIMEDIT, or SPF (ISPF) will outdistance ICCF in a heartbeat. In
system testing, dataset editing, and other functions SPF (ISPF) is
clearly the leader, the others do not even have some of those
capabilities.

My wishlist: VM (or multi platform) - XEDIT
z/OS - ISPF
VSE - BIMEDIT


L8R

Steve Huggins

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 10:54:32 AM11/4/11
to
Yep, and there are a lot of wild card's out there...  State Farm had a bunch of VSE's but I think those got replaced...  I heard a rumor that China had one licence and many many users, hmmm...  Just a rumor, but kinda funny...  

My guess is 2,600 to 6,200 sites...

Huggy

Thomas David Rivers

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 12:41:24 PM11/4/11
to
Depending on what you're doing, you could
use the Dignus tools on a PC to develop VSE programs..

- Dave Rivers -


Edward M Martin wrote:

> Hello Kevin,
>
> Having been just converted to z/OS from z/VM-z/VSE, I can attest to
> the fact that z/OS is powerful, able to recover abends fast, and is
> the slowest developmental platform I have ever seen.
>
> TSO is powerful but it is the EDLIN of Zseries editors. Even ICCF has
> it beat.
>
> Ed Martin
>
> Aultman Health Foundation
>
> 330-363-5050
>
> Ext 35050
>
> *From:* vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu
> [mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu] *On Behalf
> Of *Kevin Corkery
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:33 PM
> *To:* 'VSE Discussion List'
> *Subject:* RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
>
> Interesting thought. Is z/VM, z/VSE, and Linux for Z a more flexible
> solution for new development than z/OS? In any case, I agree with Ron
> in that IBM may be hard pressed to really know the true number of
> “VSE” flavor shops out there. Maybe it’s more appropriate to look at
> revenue generating shops. If a one-time charge shop has stopped paying
> maintenance fees then there’s a good chance that they have frozen
> their commitment to the platform. In any case, only revenue generating
> shops give IBM an incentive to actively maintain and develop the
> current z/VSE offering.
>
> *From:* vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu
> [mailto:vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu] *On Behalf
> Of *Edward M Martin
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:10 PM
> *To:* VSE Discussion List
> *Subject:* RE: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I agree with Paul. Plus, I keep hearing about the Asian ring going
> with z/VM-z/VSE system, and in South America.
>
> z/OS is so expensive that z/VM-z/VSE-z/LINUX is a significant cost
> savings. Or at least, as I read and am told.
>
> Ed Martin
>
> Aultman Health Foundation
>
> 330-363-5050
>
> Ext 35050
>
> *From:* vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu
> <mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu>
> [mailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu]
> <mailto:%5Bmailto:vse-l-bounces+emartin=aultm...@lists.lehigh.edu%5D>
> *On Behalf Of *Paul L'Heureux
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2011 2:52 PM
> *To:* 'vs...@lists.lehigh.edu'
> *Subject:* Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers
>
> Ron,
>
> That was very interesting. I am another one who wishes they knew how
> many VSE sites are still out there.
>
> Sometimes I think that VSE is dying. Then I stop and think about how
> much VSE has going for it.
>
> So much great work from so many great developers has gone into VSE.
> CICS and robust batch capabilities.
>
> It is hard to believe that something so good is disappearing off the
> face of the earth.
>
> I would think that at least a ballpark (plus or minus 5000?) number
> could be determined.
>
> Would FSI know how many FLEX/VSE systems are out there?
>
> Paul
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>VSE-L mailing list
>VS...@lists.lehigh.edu
>https://lists.lehigh.edu/mailman/listinfo/vse-l
>
>


--
riv...@dignus.com Work: (919) 676-0847
Get your mainframe programming tools at http://www.dignus.com

Jeff Henry

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 12:54:55 PM11/4/11
to
Yeah, that us. We're running 60-ish z/VSE's here in Dearborn, supporting sites across the US and EU.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:29 PM, <Rbo...@aol.com> wrote:
I forgot to add that there are a lot of companies that I know of that still run VSE (z/VSE) but no one ever hears about them. For example I know that some Ford Motor location runs 64, or was it 65, z/VSE LPAR's.



--
Jeff Henry

Kevin Corkery

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 1:17:59 PM11/4/11
to

Interesting … at one time this would have been 64 installations, a 4331 in every pot so to speak.  But now, with bandwidth being what it is it’s perfectly reasonable to host all of these site in LPARs in at a single site.  Make D/R much easier I would think.  I always heard that it was Sears (or maybe Allstate) that had a small system in every store or regional office.  I guess it would be perfectly reasonable to consolidate much of that into many LPARs or VM images.  I know that ADP Payroll Services used to be many VSE data centers around the country but I suspect that has changed too.  What were one many licenses for VSE and many physical CPUs have been consolidated down.  So, counting the sites becomes even more meaningless.

 

From: vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Henry
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 12:54 PM
To: VSE Discussion List
Subject: Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Yeah, that us. We're running 60-ish z/VSE's here in Dearborn, supporting sites across the US and EU.

Tom Duerbusch

unread,
Nov 4, 2011, 1:26:05 PM11/4/11
to
Back in the '80s, at one point, the number of VSE licenses was put at 14,000. (I seem to recall that VM was around 11,000). That was back in the VSE/SP days (16 MB per address space, up to 3 address spaces, that is without Pete Clarks' patch).

But there was two large shops that had thousands of VSE licenses.

1. An insurance company (I take it from prior posts that it was State Farm).
2. The US Postal Service. A distributed VSE system running on IBM 9370s, one for every major distribution center. It has been so long ago, but I think I saw one in the St. Louis datacenter at the main post office.

Once these two shops stopped the distribution thing, the licenses fell considerably.

My point being, that VSE didn't drop from 14,000 shops to todays...whatever. Which really looks bleak.
It is 14,000 licenses minus the x,000 licenses from those two shops, to todays....whatever. A lot smoother slope.

Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting

>>> Kevin Corkery <kcor...@live.com> 11/3/2011 2:54 PM >>>
My TSO experience is so long ago they did let the programmers use it .

Paul L'Heureux

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 9:51:48 AM11/7/11
to

Tom,

 

 

Thanks for that info. I seem to remember being at a seminar where the lecturer mentioned the 14,000 VSE licenses.

That number stuck in my head. Why IBM treats VSE like a red-haired stepchild is the real question.

 

Paul

Steve Huggins

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 10:03:24 AM11/7/11
to
Paul,

Pressure from z/OS above and pressure from OS/400 below...
We're caught between a rock and a hard place...!!!
A customer of mine replaced their VSE system with an AS/400, then another and another...
I think they have 4 AS/400's now...

Huggy

Kevin Corkery

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 10:41:08 AM11/7/11
to

Seriously, IBM should of spent more time trying to convert VSE shops to AS/400 than MVS.  For many VSE shops this would have been a much better fit.  Buy packages for A/R, A/P, and G/L since they are pretty generic across many industries.  Identify other non-core applications that can be sastisfied by a package, then convert your remaining business applications.  The cost of packaged software was traditionally much lower on the AS/400 than a mainframe. 

 

From: vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu [mailto:vse-l-bounces+kcorkery=live...@lists.lehigh.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Huggins
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 10:03 AM
To: VSE Discussion List
Subject: Re: IBM DOS, DOS/VS, DOS/VSE, VSE/SP, VSE/ESA, z/VSE Customers

 

Paul,

Paul L'Heureux

unread,
Nov 7, 2011, 10:41:56 AM11/7/11
to

Steve,

 

Is IBM committed to the AS/400 for the long term?

Is IBM going to move all AS/400 (iseries) to pseries?

If I was an iseries user now, and I am forced to go p-series, do I lose all my COBOL stuff and all of my database?

Does the As/400 have a nice backend (for the cloud)?

I agree with you about how the AS/400 is taking load away from VSE.

 

 

Just wondering,

 

Paul

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages