Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

[Joseph Reichman]

Hi

Depending on a user selection I may have a long running task ( this is actually a Rexx exec)
So I thought a good approach would be to split the screen ( I’m talking from a Rexx exec)
And a have that exec / task run in the split

Thing is I’m not sure how to do this

I thought about ISPSTART I know it takes a cmd

I tried both ADDRESS ISPEXEC and ADDRESS TSO

Both come up with errors

Thanks

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[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2021, at 14:27, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> Depending on a user selection I may have a long running task ( this is
> actually a Rexx exec)
> So I thought a good approach would be to split the screen ( I’m talking
> from a Rexx exec)
> And a have that exec / task run in the split

It's not normal for the programmer to take away the decision to split
a screen from the user, who should be able to decide whether to
split, and if so where, when they choose to.

For all you know the user would already have split the screen before
running your command.

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

[Itschak Mugzach]

בתאריך יום ב׳, 19 ביולי 2021 ב-16:27 מאת Joseph Reichman <
reich...@gmail.com>:

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Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux
and IBM I **| *

*|* *Email**: i_mu...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
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[Frank Clarke]

Run it in background.  You can't run a process on one split while you work merrily away on a different split.

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2021-07-19, at 07:27:01, Joseph Reichman wrote:
>
> Depending on a user selection I may have a long running task ( this is actually a Rexx exec)
> So I thought a good approach would be to split the screen ( I’m talking from a Rexx exec)
> And a have that exec / task run in the split
>

TSO strives frantically to prevent rrunning tasks in background. (I believe it's an
integrity thing.)

In Rexx you might try ADDRESS SYSCALL "spawn" ...

-- gil

[Mike Shaw]

ISPF has one main task, ISPMAIN, and for each logical screen split a
subtask, ISPTASK. Two splits = two subtasks and one main task.

The logical screen subtasks are either waiting (on terminal input) or
waiting on a POST from ISPMAIN.

You could have your code, already running as a PRB under ISPTASK, attach
its own subtask, but you will have to use WAIT/POST to know when that
subtask is finished doing its thing and have the attaching code (as
ISPTASK) handle the screen I/O for that logical screen via ISPF. Not
trivial.

Mike Shaw
MVS/QuickRef Support Group
Chicago-Soft, Ltd.


On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 9:27 AM Joseph Reichman <reich...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Farley, Peter x23353]

If your "long running task" is started under TSO/ISPF, you cannot expect that the user who started that task can continue with other interactive TSO/ISPF work while that task continues running behind the scene. TSO/ISPF is effectively single-tasking from the terminal user's perspective - once you start a "long running task" (e.g., ISPF 3.4 where you use wildcards in the HLQ) your terminal is locked and stays that way until the task Is done.

I do not believe there is any way to "start a subtask and let me continue interactive sessions" available in current TSO/ISPF technology.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: TSO REXX Discussion List <TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU> On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:27 AM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

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[Joseph Reichman]

I saw Mike Shaw Post on my IRS e-mail but not on my personal account (AM not
able post messages from IRS email). I am not saying I am 100 % sure can do
it I am thinking while I attach a subtask which is a PRB I can maybe do a
SELECT PANEL(ISPFPRIM) -----Original Message----- From: TSO REXX Discussion
List On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353 Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 11:11 AM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

If your "long running task" is started under TSO/ISPF, you cannot expect
that the user who started that task can continue with other interactive
TSO/ISPF work while that task continues running behind the scene. TSO/ISPF
is effectively single-tasking from the terminal user's perspective - once
you start a "long running task" (e.g., ISPF 3.4 where you use wildcards in
the HLQ) your terminal is locked and stays that way until the task Is done.
I do not believe there is any way to "start a subtask and let me continue
interactive sessions" available in current TSO/ISPF technology. Peter

-----Original Message----- From: TSO REXX Discussion List On Behalf Of

Joseph Reichman Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:27 AM To:
TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Split Screen ISPF in Rexx EXTERNAL EMAIL Hi
Depending on a user selection I may have a long running task ( this is
actually a Rexx exec) So I thought a good approach would be to split the
screen ( I'm talking from a Rexx exec) And a have that exec / task run in
the split Thing is I'm not sure how to do this I thought about ISPSTART I
know it takes a cmd I tried both ADDRESS ISPEXEC and ADDRESS TSO Both come
up with errors Thanks
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[Robin]

If the desire to SPLIT had been my issue, I would have looked it up in the ISPF user manual. I would also check what the (system portion of the) ISPF command table invokes.

-----Original Message-----
From: TSO REXX Discussion List [mailto:TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
Sent: July 19, 2021 9:27 AM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU

[Seymour J Metz]

Admittedly TSO doesn't support multitasking well, but if you do
al of your terminal I/O in a single task then there shouldn't be a problem.

You probably think of how the TMP handles authorized commands, programs and services, but that's an exception.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


________________________________________
From: TSO REXX Discussion List <TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU> on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <paulgb...@AIM.COM>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 10:02 AM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

[Don Leahy]

The traditional method for launching long running tasks is to submit batch
job. That is the only way you can keep doing interactive stuff while
another task is running. That is what batch is for. 😀

[Don Poitras]

Paul Gilmartin <paulgb...@aim.com> wrote:
> On 2021-07-19, at 07:27:01, Joseph Reichman wrote:
> >
> > Depending on a user selection I may have a long running task ( this is actually a Rexx exec)

> > So I thought a good approach would be to split the screen ( I???m talking from a Rexx exec)

> > And a have that exec / task run in the split
> >
> TSO strives frantically to prevent rrunning tasks in background. (I believe it's an
> integrity thing.)
>
> In Rexx you might try ADDRESS SYSCALL "spawn" ...
>
> -- gil

Uh. There are lot's of programs that run multiple tasks under TSO. Including SAS. And
probably lots of customer SAS/C programs.

--
Don Poitras

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2021-07-19, at 15:08:44, Don Leahy <don....@LEACOM.CA> wrote:
>
> The traditional method for launching long running tasks is to submit batch
> job. That is the only way you can keep doing interactive stuff while
> another task is running. That is what batch is for. 😀
>

Sigh. The designers of TSO targeted a pointt in spscetimee where
carbon was cheaper than iron. Nowadays, silicon is cheaper than carbon.
(Relattively.) IBM once developed a product witth a better UI. They
sold it to Lenovo. "traditional" is the govrening word.

Run two sessions. I believe TSO allows that nowadays. Submit the
batch job from one. Or run it in foreground from the subsidiary
session. Let it idle until NOTIFY. I believee NOTIFY
uses TPUT and can't target the exact submitting session. Bad
design, again. Other vendors have done better, for decades.

-- gil

[Seymour J Metz]

I used to solve that by running batch ISPF with WSA. I hate the decision to pull the plug on it.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: TSO REXX Discussion List [TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [paulgb...@AIM.COM]
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:42 PM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

[Farley, Peter x23353]

I *kind* of understand the IBM decision to pull WSA (unsupported compiler and/or library(ies) I thought I read somewhere, plus "not strategic direction", whatever that may mean), but I do wish they would open-source the code so that the community could update it to work on modern systems (including Windows 10 as well as Posix systems).

Not holding my breath, of course.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: TSO REXX Discussion List <TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU> On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 9:38 PM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

I used to solve that by running batch ISPF with WSA. I hate the decision to pull the plug on it.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!buBVP_3wmmlEXneSuHV0sxt1jrkJhzjse0qCM34cHK6BXgJ8pdzgiyM_kqPngXoz-eMFdA$

________________________________________
From: TSO REXX Discussion List [TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [paulgb...@AIM.COM]
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:42 PM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

On 2021-07-19, at 15:08:44, Don Leahy <don....@LEACOM.CA> wrote:
>
> The traditional method for launching long running tasks is to submit
> batch job. That is the only way you can keep doing interactive stuff
> while another task is running. That is what batch is for. 😀
>
Sigh. The designers of TSO targeted a pointt in spscetimee where carbon was cheaper than iron. Nowadays, silicon is cheaper than carbon.
(Relattively.) IBM once developed a product witth a better UI. They sold it to Lenovo. "traditional" is the govrening word.

Run two sessions. I believe TSO allows that nowadays. Submit the batch job from one. Or run it in foreground from the subsidiary session. Let it idle until NOTIFY. I believee NOTIFY uses TPUT and can't target the exact submitting session. Bad design, again. Other vendors have done better, for decades.

--

This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system.

[Seymour J Metz]

What is the PC side of WSA written in?

Even without open-sourcing the code, if they kept the ISPF side and documented the protocol a QT5 implementation would be feasible.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________
From: TSO REXX Discussion List [TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU] on behalf of Farley, Peter x23353 [Peter....@BROADRIDGE.COM]
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 11:20 PM

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2021, at 16:11, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
> If your "long running task" is started under TSO/ISPF, you cannot
> expect that the user who started that task can continue with other
> interactive TSO/ISPF work while that task continues running behind the
> scene. TSO/ISPF is effectively single-tasking from the terminal user's
> perspective - once you start a "long running task" (e.g., ISPF 3.4
> where you use wildcards in the HLQ) your terminal is locked and stays
> that way until the task Is done.

First, sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick in my earlier answer.

Second, 20+ years ago a long-running task attempted under foreground
TSO would have run for a very long time, because as I remember it, the
performance tuning for TSO / ISPF users was explicitly set up so that
short "transactions" received a decent response. But if you tried anything
that required more resource you got classed in a different perfomance
group (if that was the term) and your address space was extremely
likely to get swapped out, and stay there.

I suspect the old way of setting up performance groups - do I recall
IPS and ICS members in sys1.parmlib ? - has been replaced by some
other mechanism - but I can't imagine whatever does it now would
give a long-running process a decent response (at the expense of
every other user).

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

[Seymour J Metz]

IBM replaced IPS and ICS with WLM long ago in a galaxy far away.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

________________________________________

From: TSO REXX Discussion List [TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU] on behalf of Jeremy Nicoll [jn.ls....@LETTERBOXES.ORG]
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 7:57 AM
To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Split Screen ISPF in Rexx

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2021, at 14:06, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> IBM replaced IPS and ICS with WLM long ago in a galaxy far away.

OK, but does WLM give processes attempting to be long-running
under TSO/ISPF a sustained burst of resource, or not?

[Baldon, David]

Just like before, it depends on how it's configured. I suspect that most shops don't give you a sustained burst of resources.


David Baldon
Solutions Architect
Db2 Backup & Recovery
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+1 512.340.6093
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[Seymour J Metz]

That depends on how you define your goals. I would expect that most shops would throttle long CPU intensive transactions.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


________________________________________
From: TSO REXX Discussion List <TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU> on behalf of Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ls....@LETTERBOXES.ORG>

Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 9:33 AM

To: TSO-...@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [TSO-REXX] Split Screen ISPF in Rexx