PowerPoint is art
M Giffin
Grist for the PowerPoint mill. David Byrne of Talking Heads fame calls it
art. Edward Tufte is miffed.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1423155,00.asp
Mark Giffin
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Goldstein, Dan
Including David Byrne's brilliant quote: "Software constraints are only
confining if you use them for what they're intended to be used for."
Somebody must have told him that we're using LISTNUM and SEQ instead of
Word's auto-numbering...
Bonnie Granat
Goldstein, Dan wrote:
| Including David Byrne's brilliant quote: "Software constraints are
| only confining if you use them for what they're intended to be used
| for." Somebody must have told him that we're using LISTNUM and SEQ
| instead of Word's auto-numbering...
|
Who was he quoting? And who uses "constraints"?
Bonnie Granat
www.granatedit.com
Goldstein, Dan
Did you read the article?
Bonnie Granat
Goldstein, Dan wrote:
| Did you read the article?
|
Does it sound like I did?
kcr...@daleen.com
| > Did you read the article?
| Does it sound like I did?
Does this remind anybody else of that skit on the TV show "Whose Line is
it Anyway?" where everybody is forced to communicate only with questions?
No?
Am I crazy?
Keith Cronin?
Goldstein, Dan
Isn't it the question game from "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead"?
| -----Original Message-----
| From: kcr...@daleen.com
| Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 4:06 PM
| To: TECHWR-L
| Subject: Re: PowerPoint is art
|
| > > Did you read the article?
|
| > Does it sound like I did?
|
| Does this remind anybody else of that skit on the TV show
| "Whose Line is
| it Anyway?" where everybody is forced to communicate only
| with questions?
|
| No?
|
| Am I crazy?
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
techn...@cableone.net
| > > Did you read the article?
|
| > Does it sound like I did?
|
| Does this remind anybody else of that skit on the TV show
| "Whose Line is
| it Anyway?" where everybody is forced to communicate only
| with questions?
|
| No?
|
| Am I crazy?
No rhetoric. 1-love.
(Thanks for that reminder, Dan.)
R. Johnson
I hate to admit this but...
I have to agree with David Byrne. Don't stone me to death;
let me give my POV first. I HATE the typical PPT
presentations that PHBs and marketing types bore us to
death with at meetings and seminars, but I have seen some
inventive uses of the application, too.
I knew one guy who was a macro-maven, and he created a PPT
CBT that rivaled anything I'd ever seen in Director or
Authorware. It was a fully interactive, multimedia
presentation that he produced on CD-ROM to train employees
at our job sites and satellite locations. It even contained
a simple testing unit that evaluated the progress of the
trainees, and reenforced what they'd learned.
For me, I find it useful for making quick mock-ups and
designs, storyboards, layouts, etc. It's a great
brainstorming/"ideation" tool that let's me create a sketch
or abstract of whatever it is I'm trying to produce,
without having to know how to draw. You can easily color,
move and resize the objects, and develop and massage your
concept with minimal effort. I do this for everything: web
sites, page layouts, GUIs, process flows, outlines,
floorplans, drawings--anything that can be represented
visually.
I wouldn't go so far as to call PPT art, but I have seen
some slides that remind me of stuff I've seen in
contemporary art spaces.
Robin
-----------------------------------------
Mark Giffin wrote:
Grist for the PowerPoint mill. David Byrne of Talking Heads
fame
calls it
art. Edward Tufte is miffed.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1423155,00.asp
-----------------------------------------
__________________________________
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Peter
Hating PPT because it is misused is equivalent to hating pencil and
paper because some people scribble with it. A PPT presentation can be
entertaining and enjoyable, or it can be drab and uninteresting. I
wonder if the reason some users have an aversion to RTFM can somehow be
found in this thread.
--
Peter
Sisyphus had it easy
Jason
But PowerPoint is much more than that. Sure, it's just a content delivery
mechanism, but it includes wizards and workflows that guide you along and
suggest a certain way of doing things. It's not so free-form as a pencil
and paper; it's more akin to Mad Libs. Not that it's quite so constrained,
but the idea is the same; you're not allowed to do anything you'd like, and
even if you are, it's only by subverting the normal workflow, by adding
scripting functionality or throwing out the predefined templates (like
rewriting the Mad Libs from scratch on their paper).
Sure, it can be entertaining and informative. But the problem is that it
doesn't encourage care and preparation of one's presentation, and does
encourage *something else*.
At 09:22 PM 1/6/2004 -0500, Peter wrote:
|Hating PPT because it is misused is equivalent to hating pencil and paper
|because some people scribble with it. A PPT presentation can be
|entertaining and enjoyable, or it can be drab and uninteresting. I wonder
|if the reason some users have an aversion to RTFM can somehow be found in
|this thread.
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
John Fleming
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 15:13:53 -0800 (PST), while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, rj...@yahoo.com ("R. Johnson") wrote:
| $I hate to admit this but...
| $
| $I have to agree with David Byrne. Don't stone me to death;
| $let me give my POV first. I HATE the typical PPT
| $presentations that PHBs and marketing types bore us to
| $death with at meetings and seminars, but I have seen some
| $inventive uses of the application, too.
| $
| $I knew one guy who was a macro-maven, and he created a PPT
| $CBT that rivaled anything I'd ever seen in Director or
| $Authorware. It was a fully interactive, multimedia
| $presentation that he produced on CD-ROM to train employees
| $at our job sites and satellite locations. It even contained
| $a simple testing unit that evaluated the progress of the
| $trainees, and reenforced what they'd learned.
While I have never done anything this complicated, I do know how it can
be done and I admire his inventiveness.
Basic PowerPoint can be boring and overused, but when you push the
limits of the software and see what it can really do, you can produce
some really cool stuff.
| $For me, I find it useful for making quick mock-ups and
| $designs, storyboards, layouts, etc. It's a great
| $brainstorming/"ideation" tool that let's me create a sketch
| $or abstract of whatever it is I'm trying to produce,
| $without having to know how to draw. You can easily color,
| $move and resize the objects, and develop and massage your
| $concept with minimal effort. I do this for everything: web
| $sites, page layouts, GUIs, process flows, outlines,
| $floorplans, drawings--anything that can be represented
| $visually.
PowerPoint is where I design a lot of conventional overheads for use
with an overhead projector.
Here, though, I get a bit more mileage by incorporating elements
developed in other applications like Visio, Quick CAD, Excel and the
like.
A lot gets lost when PowerPoint is used as a stand alone tool.
| $I wouldn't go so far as to call PPT art, but I have seen
| $some slides that remind me of stuff I've seen in
| $contemporary art spaces.
I wouldn't call a sheet of canvas, a couple of tubes of paint and a
paintbrush art either. Art is what you do with the canvas, paint and
paintbrush.
Now, if I could just get people to stop sending me these PopwerPoint
slideshows with Tibetan tantras and the like, . . ..
John Fleming
Technical Writer
Edmonton, Alberta
Bruce Byfield
Peter wrote:
| Hating PPT because it is misused is equivalent to hating pencil and
| paper because some people scribble with it. A PPT presentation can be
| entertaining and enjoyable, or it can be drab and uninteresting. I
| wonder if the reason some users have an aversion to RTFM can somehow
| be found in this thread.
|
I know you can create some interesting material in a slide presentation,
and I can understand the challenge of doing so. However, if you're using
PowerPoint, let's face it: you're struggling against the medium. It's
just not the the first choice for doing elaborate multi-media
presentations.
You can do a little more in Impress, OpenOffice.org's slide presentation
program because it's basically a modified version of the drawing
program. However, even there, you're struggling agains t the tools.
The idea that PowerPoint can be used in elaborate ways is akin to saying
that you can design a brochure in MS Word: yes, you can, but who would
choose to if almost any other choice was available?
--
Bruce Byfield bbyf...@axionet.com 604.421.7177
http://members.axion.net/~bbyfield
"Forget all the teeth that threaten to tear
Forget all the pains in your head
The meek and the weak shall inherit the earth
The savage and honest are dead."
- Bob Pegg, "All the Good Times"
Peter
Jason wrote:
|
| But PowerPoint is much more than that. Sure, it's just a content
| delivery mechanism, but it includes wizards and workflows that guide you
| along and suggest a certain way of doing things. It's not so free-form
| as a pencil and paper; it's more akin to Mad Libs. Not that it's quite
| so constrained, but the idea is the same; you're not allowed to do
| anything you'd like, and even if you are, it's only by subverting the
| normal workflow, by adding scripting functionality or throwing out the
| predefined templates (like rewriting the Mad Libs from scratch on their
| paper).
| Sure, it can be entertaining and informative. But the problem is that
| it doesn't encourage care and preparation of one's presentation, and
| does encourage *something else*.
|
The idea is to take your mind off the mechanism and concentrate on
content. It's like serving gravy, without the meat. Looks good, no
substance gets boring after a while. (Yeah! I know, you like gravy or
are a vegan.)
Back to the salt mines, me. You've got a 40 page delivery to make tomorrow.
--
Peter
Sisyphus had it easy
Peter
Bruce Byfield wrote:
|
| Peter wrote:
|
|> Hating PPT because it is misused is equivalent to hating pencil and
|> paper because some people scribble with it. A PPT presentation can be
|> entertaining and enjoyable, or it can be drab and uninteresting. I
|> wonder if the reason some users have an aversion to RTFM can somehow
|> be found in this thread.
|>
| I know you can create some interesting material in a slide presentation,
| and I can understand the challenge of doing so. However, if you're using
| PowerPoint, let's face it: you're struggling against the medium. It's
| just not the the first choice for doing elaborate multi-media
| presentations.
Agreed.
<snip a good comment>
| The idea that PowerPoint can be used in elaborate ways is akin to saying
| that you can design a brochure in MS Word: yes, you can, but who would
| choose to if almost any other choice was available?
|
Creative is OK. Elaberate is not. All too often presenters confuse the
two and subsitute elaborate for creative.
--
Peter
Sisyphus had it easy
Bruce Byfield
Peter wrote:
|> The idea that PowerPoint can be used in elaborate ways is akin to
|> saying that you can design a brochure in MS Word: yes, you can, but
|> who would choose to if almost any other choice was available?
|>
|
| Creative is OK. Elaberate is not. All too often presenters confuse the
| two and subsitute elaborate for creative.
|
This is a side issue, but I used "elaborate" rather than "creative" here
because slide presentations tend to the simple. To be creative in a
slide presentation, I'm suggesting, you need to make elaborate use of
the software. I wasn't thinking of the design or the results - where I
agree with you
--
Bruce Byfield bbyf...@axionet.com 604.421.7177
http://members.axion.net/~bbyfield
"Forget all the teeth that threaten to tear
Forget all the pains in your head
The meek and the weak shall inherit the earth
The savage and honest are dead."
- Bob Pegg, "All the Good Times"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
DaveC
|>>>>Did you read the article?
|>>>Does it sound like I did?
|>>Does this remind anybody else of that skit on the TV show "Whose
|>>Line is it Anyway?" where everybody is forced to communicate only
|>>with questions?
|>>
|>>No?
|>>
|>>Am I crazy?
|>Isn't it the question game from "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead"?
Clever form for your response...
Dave
Laurel Hickey
Somehow I'd managed NOT to send this to the list:
Well, I read the article.
I don't think PowerPoint if broken. It does what it's designed to do and
does it... well, okay. I especially appreciate the ability to instantly
change the font colours and background to fit the lighting conditions
and projection equipment of various venues. What's broken is the idea
that one training model fits all: that simple points are adequate for
conveying both simple and complex concepts.
People who have something they need to teach have to ask themselves a
qestion we do everyday as technical writers: what is the best way or
ways to get the desired end result from the target audience.
:-)
Laurel
-------------------------------------
Laurel Hickey
2morrow writing & document design
lhi...@2morrow.bc.ca
http://www.2morrow.bc.ca
| -----Original Message-----
| From: bounce-tech...@lists.raycomm.com
| [mailto:bounce-tech...@lists.raycomm.com] On Behalf Of
Bonnie
| Granat
| Sent: January 6, 2004 9:07 AM
| To: TECHWR-L
| Subject: Re: PowerPoint is art
|
|
|
| Goldstein, Dan wrote:
|> Did you read the article?
|>
|
| Does it sound like I did?
|
| Bonnie Granat
| www.granatedit.com
Dick Margulis
Laurel Hickey wrote:
|
| Somehow I'd managed NOT to send this to the list:
|
| Well, I read the article.
|
| I don't think PowerPoint if broken. It does what it's designed to do and
| does it... well, okay. I especially appreciate the ability to instantly
| change the font colours and background to fit the lighting conditions
| and projection equipment of various venues. What's broken is the idea
| that one training model fits all: that simple points are adequate for
| conveying both simple and complex concepts.
|
| People who have something they need to teach have to ask themselves a
| qestion we do everyday as technical writers: what is the best way or
| ways to get the desired end result from the target audience.
|
|
I think you're getting to the crux of the issue. What's wrong with
PowerPoint (aside from the worse-than-usual clunkiness of Microsoft's
design for the product) is who we allow to use it. This is essentially
the same complaint that we have about desktop publishing programs:
Anyone with a PC can get their hands on the tools, despite their lack of
training, and turn out a real piece of garbage.
Before PowerPoint (okay, before Harvard Graphics), if you wanted to
present graphics you had three choices: You could take photographs of
stuff (or people or scenery) on your 35 mm camera and use a Carousel
projector; you could use grease pencil on recycled X-ray film while
standing in front of an overhead projector or you could spend
significant bucks to have a professional graphic artist prepare either
overheads or slides. In all of these cases, there were barriers--time,
cost, the mediation of another person's professional input--that
mitigated against laziness. (For one thing, if you're going to stand in
front of an audience and draw freehand with grease pencils, you damn
well better know your subject matter cold.) But with PowerPoint, there
is no such barrier. Any idiot can, and any idiot does, do whatever they
please, with no help from you or me, and this is what galls us.
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses at mail.fiam.net]
Oja, W. Kelly
I think Laurel and Dick hit the nail on the head with their posts. The
PPT issue goes beyond PPT itself and carries over to everything in
society. The saying, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle
them with BS" seems to fit. I believe PPT is a very useful tool, when
used correctly. It only becomes a <headache> when it gets into the hands
of people who have some perverse impulse to add <fertilizer> to every
screen, just because they can not knowing anything about
cognates/presentation rules.
"But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong."
-Dennis Miller
W. Kelly Oja
Verizon Airfone
http://www22.verizon.com/airfone/
Stay in Touch with Verizon Airfone JetConnect (sm)
John Fleming
On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:28:15 -0800, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, jason...@mitratech.com (Jason) wrote:
| $But PowerPoint is much more than that. Sure, it's just a content delivery
| $mechanism, but it includes wizards and workflows that guide you along and
| $suggest a certain way of doing things. It's not so free-form as a pencil
| $and paper; it's more akin to Mad Libs. Not that it's quite so constrained,
| $but the idea is the same; you're not allowed to do anything you'd like, and
| $even if you are, it's only by subverting the normal workflow, by adding
| $scripting functionality or throwing out the predefined templates (like
| $rewriting the Mad Libs from scratch on their paper).
| $Sure, it can be entertaining and informative. But the problem is that it
| $doesn't encourage care and preparation of one's presentation, and does
| $encourage *something else*.
To really get the most out of PowerPoint, you have to ignore some of the
wizards and templates Microsoft has thrown in.
In my opinion, a lot of these templates are there for those who have
neither the time nor the inclination to develop their own templates.
Maybe we can throw in lack the ability while we are at it.
PowerPoint is a tool to help the presenter deliver a message.
Wisely used, it is an incredible asset.
Poorly used, and people start to think, "Oh my God! Not another
PowerPoint Presentation."
John Fleming
Technical Writer
Edmonton, Alberta
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
John Fleming
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:45:18 -0800, while chained to a desk in the
scriptorium, lhi...@2morrow.bc.ca ("Laurel Hickey") wrote:
| $
| $
| $Somehow I'd managed NOT to send this to the list:
| $
| $Well, I read the article.
| $
| $I don't think PowerPoint if broken. It does what it's designed to do and
| $does it... well, okay. I especially appreciate the ability to instantly
| $change the font colours and background to fit the lighting conditions
| $and projection equipment of various venues. What's broken is the idea
| $that one training model fits all: that simple points are adequate for
| $conveying both simple and complex concepts.
| $
| $ People who have something they need to teach have to ask themselves a
| $qestion we do everyday as technical writers: what is the best way or
| $ways to get the desired end result from the target audience.
| $
| $:-)
| $Laurel
I agree with you completely.
PowerPoint is a tool to help the presenter convey a message. It is not
a replacement for the presenter.
I like to think of PowerPoint as a kind of best supporting actor. The
presenter is the star.
If the presenter doesn't have a coherent message for the audience, all
the bells and whistles in PowerPoint aren't going to help him or her.
If the presenter does have a coherent message, he or she can deliver it
without PowerPoint. But PowerPoint can help him or her do it better.
John Fleming
Technical Writer
Edmonton, Alberta
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Giordano, Connie
Another perspective, which IMNSHO gets to the crux of the matter for
communicators, of any specialty:
http://www.sociablemedia.com/articles_norman.htm
For those that may not be aware, Don Norman wrote "The Design of Everyday
Things", which is one of those books that sits on this TW's shelf!
Regards
Connie P. Giordano
Info Designer wannabe
"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause I'm afraid
that we've been cheated here on Earth" - Clint Black "Galaxy Song"
SallyCD
presenter. Otherwise, there would have been no reason for Microsoft to
enable it for a web page.
IMHO anything can be used for Art - it just may not be something I like. (I
hate works made from garbage)
I have always admired users who can make software sing - even if it wasn't
what the product was created for.
Having said that, one thing I am forever telling people is "just because you
CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD"!
To be able to choose a product which will handle the job better is great,
but often times, people don't know there is specific software available, or
that this product was not designed for the purpose they are using it for.
When all I had to work with was MS Works v2 - I used Works to create
brochures, newsletters and posters. This turned out well, because some
people I trained only had this software, and I was able to help them
work-around for their businesses. Mind you, I did show them there was
better software (Publisher), but many wanted to wait. Most showed up in my
Publisher class within 2 years.
Sometimes you do what you can with what you've got, and when you can - move
on.
from a little north of Middle Earth
Sally CD
"John Fleming" <john...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:noqpvvsvk1gcp61lo...@4ax.com...
PowerPoint is a tool to help the presenter convey a message. It is not
a replacement for the presenter.
<snip>