RoboHelp or WebWorks ePublisher for Word 2000 and FrameMaker 6?
Nandini G
guide is 85% done in Word 2000. It will be converted
and updated in Frame 6.0. We might upgrade to 7.2.
What would be quickest to learn and deploy:
1. Generating Help from Word 2000 with RoboHelp X 5
and manually updating additional content. I have
training in RoboHelp X 5.
OR:
2. Converting the Word file to Frame and creating Help
with WWP or WWeP? Problem: nobody knows WebWorks or
how to create templates for the Help.
OR:
3. Using Dreamweaver 4 or later, creating Help. Nobody
knows mechanisms involved.
Are people using RoboHelp to create Help from
FrameMaker saving it as an RTF file? How about as a
PDF? What's the learning curve like on WebWorks? I
have two months to test, update and write the document
the user guide, and write Help. The software is not
ready.
Nandini (nandini111atyahoodotcom)
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delivery. Try it today!. http://www.webworks.com/techwr-l
Doc-To-Help includes a one-click RoboHelp project converter. It's that easy. Watch the demo at http://www.componentone.com/TECHWRL/DocToHelp2005
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Gene Kim-Eng
help immediately, WebWorks for Frame if you have time to wait
until the base document is converted to Frame.
If you have RH experience and really liked it, you might want to
give the hew Madcap Flare a try, as it was created by the core
of the former RH team. RoboHelp is a dead product that the
mfr just hasn't gotten around to burying yet. Even if it isn't
officially discontinued, its creative team has left the building.
Gene Kim-Eng
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nandini G" <nandi...@yahoo.com>
To: <tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:41 AM
Subject: RoboHelp or WebWorks ePublisher for Word 2000 and FrameMaker 6?
> My company has no Help software. The 300-page user
> guide is 85% done in Word 2000. It will be converted
> and updated in Frame 6.0. We might upgrade to 7.2.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rick Stone
RoboHelp is a dead product that the mfr just hasn't gotten around to burying
yet. Even if it isn't officially discontinued, its creative team has left
the building.
While it may be true that the former RoboHelp development team has created
their own company and have begun creating their own product, it would be a
foolish mistake for someone to think they could simply acquire Flare and
begin working immediately. The interface is nothing like RoboHelp's was. The
outputs are substantially different. The whole workflow is different enough
that I'd be surprised if any former RoboHelp user well versed in the
application could be up and running with Flare in a day or so. In other
words, there is a bit of a learning curve. ;) Actually, my guess is that
users that have never seen RoboHelp before will have an easier time of it. I
know I still struggle with it. But then again, I fall into the category of a
long time RoboHelp user. ;)
And I'm not sure I'd say RoboHelp is dead just yet. I've heard some
rumblings from various sources claiming that Adobe may be planning on
bringing some development back. I heard a similar fate occurred with the
Captivate developers. All development has moved off shore. Yet development
continues with this product. And at a surprising pace!
Just some random thoughts on a stormy Sunday evening... Rick :)
Bill Swallow
> their own company and have begun creating their own product, it would be a
> foolish mistake for someone to think they could simply acquire Flare and
> begin working immediately. The interface is nothing like RoboHelp's was. The
> outputs are substantially different.
The UI is definitely different. It has a more IDE feel to it, which is
where a lot of HATs are going, getting away from the "document as Help
source" mentality. The outputs are not substantially different. A CHM
is a CHM is a CHM.
> The whole workflow is different enough
> that I'd be surprised if any former RoboHelp user well versed in the
> application could be up and running with Flare in a day or so.
Many people on the HATT list don't seem to be having too many problems with it.
> In other
> words, there is a bit of a learning curve. ;) Actually, my guess is that
> users that have never seen RoboHelp before will have an easier time of it. I
> know I still struggle with it. But then again, I fall into the category of a
> long time RoboHelp user. ;)
As do I. I began using RH in 1996, and used Doc-to-Help at the same
time. Both tools had very different workflows, but that didn't mean
they were difficult to learn to use. They were just different. I then
began to use Dreamweaver, FrontPage, and NetObjects Fusion to do HTML
editing, all of which had a very different UI. In 1998 I began to
author in FrameMaker, and used RH, then Mif2Go, then WWP to create
online Help. All these tools are different, but that didn't make them
difficult to learn or use. I've used Flare as well, and yes, it's
different, but in my opinion it wasn't difficult to learn.
> And I'm not sure I'd say RoboHelp is dead just yet. I've heard some
> rumblings from various sources claiming that Adobe may be planning on
> bringing some development back. I heard a similar fate occurred with the
> Captivate developers. All development has moved off shore. Yet development
> continues with this product. And at a surprising pace!
RoboHelp and Captivate (aka RoboDemo) are like apples and oranges in
this regard. eHelp was purchased by Macromedia mainly for RoboDemo,
which was extremely quickly renamed and launched as Captivate.
Meanwhile, RoboHelp was virtually liquidated of resources by
Macromedia and was put on hold. Now Adobe owns Macromedia, and no
formal announcement has yet been made with regard to RoboHelp. True,
there was an announcement from WritersUA as prepared by Adobe:
"February 23, 2006 -- Adobe Systems is pleased to announce its
participation at the WritersUA Conference for Software User Assistance
in Palm Springs, April 10-12. Several Adobe representatives will be on
hand demonstrating the Adobe products of interest to the user
assistance community. In addition to FrameMaker, the Adobe exhibition
booth will feature RoboHelp and Captivate. Stop by to see the latest
demos and to discuss the current capabilities and future directions
for these important products. Adobe is also pleased to be sponsoring
the WritersUA Conference Reception on Monday evening, April 10."
I personally am not vested in RoboHelp's life or death, but I will say
that I will believe further development when I see it. Adobe has some
big issues to resolve with it. The code base is like FrameMaker's -
old, different, and unfamiliar to Adobe development. Plus, I'd be
interested how Adobe's support for RoboHelp will be handled, given
Adobe has a business agreement to package WebWorks Publisher Standard
with Framemaker.
I guess we'll have to wait until April 10 to find out what the plan is.
--
Bill Swallow
HATT List Owner
WWP-Users List Owner
42.8162,-73.7736
http://techcommdood.blogspot.com
============================
I support Char James-Tanny for STC Secretary.
Rick Stone
Thoughts...
> The UI is definitely different. It has a more IDE feel to it, which is
> where a lot of HATs are going, getting away from the "document as Help
> source" mentality. The outputs are not substantially different. A CHM
> is a CHM is a CHM.
Indeed a CHM may be a CHM, but take a look at what folks are accustomed to
with WebHelp. Now compare the RoboHelp WebHelp output to the new "Accordian
view" that Flare puts forth. These are definitely not the same. I'm not sure
about merging. I don't believe it's currently possible with either output.
However, I could be wrong about the .CHM format. Maybe Flare can merge .CHM
files.
Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "Document as Help source" mentality? Are
you referring to using Word documents? While I certainly don't like using
them personally, I do know that many places have tons of documents in Word
format. So I do see the value of being able to work with this document type.
Or are you instead referring to the "Document as Help source" mentality as
being one where you work on your HTML pages as you do in any visual editor.
Viewing the page pretty much as your end user will see it and not as some
abstracted XML data that will be rendered later? If this is the case, why is
that a bad thing?
> As do I. I began using RH in 1996, and used Doc-to-Help at the same
> time. Both tools had very different workflows, but that didn't mean
> they were difficult to learn to use. They were just different. I then
> began to use Dreamweaver, FrontPage, and NetObjects Fusion to do HTML
> editing, all of which had a very different UI. In 1998 I began to
> author in FrameMaker, and used RH, then Mif2Go, then WWP to create
> online Help. All these tools are different, but that didn't make them
> difficult to learn or use. I've used Flare as well, and yes, it's
> different, but in my opinion it wasn't difficult to learn.
I didn't say it was difficult to learn. What I said (or, more accurately,
meant to imply) was that if one was accustomed to RoboHelp's UI, moving to
Flare isn't as easy as dropping one and picking up the other. Don't expect
to seamlessly walk into a productive mode right away. Actually, I tried to
imply that it is probably easier to use if one has never seen RoboHelp. ;)
> RoboHelp and Captivate (aka RoboDemo) are like apples and oranges in
> this regard. eHelp was purchased by Macromedia mainly for RoboDemo,
> which was extremely quickly renamed and launched as Captivate.
> Meanwhile, RoboHelp was virtually liquidated of resources by
> Macromedia and was put on hold. Now Adobe owns Macromedia, and no
> formal announcement has yet been made with regard to RoboHelp. True,
> there was an announcement from WritersUA as prepared by Adobe:
> "February 23, 2006 -- Adobe Systems is pleased to announce its
> participation at the WritersUA Conference for Software User Assistance
> in Palm Springs, April 10-12. Several Adobe representatives will be on
> hand demonstrating the Adobe products of interest to the user
> assistance community. In addition to FrameMaker, the Adobe exhibition
> booth will feature RoboHelp and Captivate. Stop by to see the latest
> demos and to discuss the current capabilities and future directions
> for these important products. Adobe is also pleased to be sponsoring
> the WritersUA Conference Reception on Monday evening, April 10."
While it's true that Macromedia was very quiet as far as RoboHelp was
concerned, I see that Adobe wants to: "discuss the current capabilities and
future directions for these important products". Coupled with the simple
fact that Adobe is actually planning on an appearance at the event, this in
and of itself seems to speak favorably for the future of both products.
> I personally am not vested in RoboHelp's life or death, but I will say
> that I will believe further development when I see it. Adobe has some
> big issues to resolve with it. The code base is like FrameMaker's -
> old, different, and unfamiliar to Adobe development. Plus, I'd be
> interested how Adobe's support for RoboHelp will be handled, given
> Adobe has a business agreement to package WebWorks Publisher Standard
> with Framemaker.
> I guess we'll have to wait until April 10 to find out what the plan is.
I guess we will. ;)
My bottom line is that I'm in no way attempting to sway users one way or the
other. I think Flare is a terrific product and I do wish them all the best
with it. But RoboHelp it certainly isn't. And a great many folks will step
into it with the expectation that it operates, looks and feels very similar
to RoboHelp. It doesn't. I think the fact that Flare was developed by all
the former RoboHelp developers tends to lead folks to this conclusion or
expectation.
I'm sure there are many underlying technical reasons it looks and behaves as
it does and we will never know the true extent of why certain things are as
they are. I just feel folks should be prepared for a rather dramatic shift
in look, feel and work habits if they are moving in that direction. Heck, I
still encounter folks in my RoboHelp HTML classes that are totally clueless
of Style Sheets and why they might benefit from using them.
I suppose I too support Char James-Tanny for STC Secretary or whatever
undertaking she chooses. Char is a great lady. Why is it that everyone is
sporting that sig line these days? Is it a voting system?
Bill Swallow
> with WebHelp. Now compare the RoboHelp WebHelp output to the new "Accordian
> view" that Flare puts forth. These are definitely not the same. I'm not sure
> about merging. I don't believe it's currently possible with either output.
> However, I could be wrong about the .CHM format. Maybe Flare can merge .CHM
> files.
I don't know much with regard to merging CHMs with either RH or Flare,
but it's always possible to do this outside the HAT.
> Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "Document as Help source" mentality?
Authoring in a more "long document" manner, where multiple topics
exist in one source file.
> I didn't say it was difficult to learn. What I said (or, more accurately,
> meant to imply) was that if one was accustomed to RoboHelp's UI, moving to
> Flare isn't as easy as dropping one and picking up the other. Don't expect
> to seamlessly walk into a productive mode right away. Actually, I tried to
> imply that it is probably easier to use if one has never seen RoboHelp. ;)
Moving from any one tool to any other requires planning. The more you
know about your existing infrastructure and the more you know about
where you want to go, the easier it will be to plan and migrate. So it
*could* be possible to walk into a productive mode right away
depending on when you consider your starting point to be.
> While it's true that Macromedia was very quiet as far as RoboHelp was
> concerned, I see that Adobe wants to: "discuss the current capabilities and
> future directions for these important products". Coupled with the simple
> fact that Adobe is actually planning on an appearance at the event, this in
> and of itself seems to speak favorably for the future of both products.
Possibly. We don't know. They could be saving face from the lack of
attendance by Macromedia last year, too. We don't know, and given
Adobe's tendency to clam up until a month prior to doing something, we
won't know until a month before they actually do something. ;-) All we
can do now is speculate.
> My bottom line is that I'm in no way attempting to sway users one way or the
> other. I think Flare is a terrific product and I do wish them all the best
> with it. But RoboHelp it certainly isn't. And a great many folks will step
> into it with the expectation that it operates, looks and feels very similar
> to RoboHelp. It doesn't. I think the fact that Flare was developed by all
> the former RoboHelp developers tends to lead folks to this conclusion or
> expectation.
Agreed on expectations. But that's a "shame on them" to all the people
who buy it without doing their research first. ;-)
> I'm sure there are many underlying technical reasons it looks and behaves as
> it does and we will never know the true extent of why certain things are as
> they are. I just feel folks should be prepared for a rather dramatic shift
> in look, feel and work habits if they are moving in that direction. Heck, I
> still encounter folks in my RoboHelp HTML classes that are totally clueless
> of Style Sheets and why they might benefit from using them.
Absolutely. People should be doing their due diligence to learn, not
just expect a tool to do the work for them.
> I suppose I too support Char James-Tanny for STC Secretary or whatever
> undertaking she chooses. Char is a great lady. Why is it that everyone is
> sporting that sig line these days? Is it a voting system?
Well, I can speak for anyone else, but the STC allows endorsements for
candidates, and I think Char will be a positive voice on the STC board
of directors.
--
Bill Swallow
HATT List Owner
WWP-Users List Owner
42.8162,-73.7736
http://techcommdood.blogspot.com
============================
I support Char James-Tanny for STC Secretary.
Nandini G
issues. I am better able to recommend a HAT to my
employer in which I will be able to single-source.
That's going to be WebWorks ePublisher. Considering I
will be writing an application guide and release notes
also, I saved a lot of time because of the footwork
done by experts like you. Thanks for being so generous
with your comments.
Come to think of it, I also support Char James-Tanny
for STC Secretary! Perhaps we can wear a bracelet for
her! Anybody wants to buy them from me?
Nandini
--- Bill Swallow <techco...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> I support Char James-Tanny for STC Secretary.
>
__________________________________________________
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Rigo
and future problems concerning delivering online help and
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