Associate Degree in Technical Communications
dl...@terracom.net
I am an experienced technical writer but currently lack a degree.
I found an online program at Gateway Technical College in Wisconsin that
results in an Associate Degree in Technical Communications:
http://cws.gateway.tec.wi.us/programs/techcomm/Courses/Course_Descriptions/c
ourse_descriptions.html
Since this college is part of a vocational/technical group, some or all of
the credits will most likely transfer to the Wisconsin state college system
later. (I'm verifying this)
My question to the group: in your experience, how marketable is an
associate degree? Most of the job postings I've seen for tech writers have
required at least a Bachelor's degree.
My areas of specialization include software documentation and instructional
material design, but I am considering transitioning to marketing
communications.
Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide,
Dixie Lang
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Brierley, Sean
I don't know. All other things being equal at an interview, I'll take
the candidate with the STC membership, then the candidate with the
degree, then the candidate with neither.
The degree gets your foot in the door. It shows that at some point in
your life you committed to a long-term research project to achieve a
goal, shows you can focus and commit. Plus, it shows you have had some
training and education, so perhaps it is less likely that you need to
learn some grammar and perhaps some topics about the subjects of your
technical documentation.
I'm not sure about an associates degree itself, but taking courses and
improving your education in the area of technical writing as an adult
tells me you are serious enough about your career to add one or two more
balls to the things you are juggling, and I like that commitment to your
career. Probably, on a scale, I'd weigh this about the same as taking
continuing ed by regularly attending regional conferences on tech
writing topics.
Cheers,
Sean
Greetings,
Dixie Lang
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Lauren
Communications certificate that some colleges offer may also be good. Your
resume will say more about your abilities than your educational background,
but education can show potential that isn't demonstrated in your resume and
nearly any education will improve your marketability. Your better off
getting a degree when you have the opportunity than trying to maintain a
career without one.
Without a degree you will need to demonstrate your abilities through years
of experience. If you don't have that many years of experience now, then
you are probably better off getting the degree because the market is
competitive and getting the jobs to get the experience are a little more
difficult these days.
I started my career with a little education and education in technical
writing, but no degree. That went well for 10 or so years. I finally had
the opportunity to complete my bachelor's degree, so I did. I think that it
helps because I don't have to answer as many questions about how I have
developed my skills. Education is also good because it offers assorted
writing experiences that are not available outside of the education.
Lauren
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Mike Starr
late 80s. As a graduate of a different Gateway program I already had all of
the core general education requirements met as well as courses that would
satisfy optional requirements. That left the core technical writing courses.
My experience gave me enough knowledge to test out of a few of those courses
and I enrolled in the program and took the rest. As a result of my advanced
standing, I was the very first graduate out of that program in 1991.
Since then, I've served twice as a member of the curriculum committee and
can tell you that it's a very good program and that Dick Gage, who runs the
program is an excellent instructor and extremely dedicated to making it the
best possible program. He's worked with many businesses and technical
writers to make sure that the curriculum gives students what they need to be
successful in the field. Every student must complete a one-semester
internship to get some real-world experience. If you have any questions
about the program, drop Dick an email (ga...@gateway.tec.wi.us) and I'm sure
he'll be happy to answer.
Having said that, every job or contract assignment I've ever held has had
"Bachelor's Degree" as one of the requirements. But what's gotten me the job
was experience. An Associate Degree in Technical Communication is a great
starting point. It should get you in the door with companies who are in the
market for entry-level technical writers or with companies who want a
technical writer at the lowest possible salary. It's not going to get you a
job as a senior technical writer... you've gotta have experience to get
there. Remember, all job descriptions as seen on Monster, Dice, etc. are
wish lists. What they ask for and what they're willing to accept are two
different things.
With respect to credits transferring to the University of Wisconsin system,
that may be a little dicey... a few credits may transfer but make sure you
know what will and what won't before proceeding. I have heard that almost
all credits from the technical communication program at Gateway will
transfer to Milwaukee School of Engineering
(http://www.msoe.edu/gen_st/tc/2+2TC.shtml), which has a Bachelor's Degree
program in Technical Communication. However, I have not researched that.
MSOE is a highly respected engineering school in Milwaukee.
Mike
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Mike Starr
Every time this sort of thing comes up I read through the messages with
slack-jawed wonder... are our readers such dolts that they've never
encountered a two-page table? Why on earth do we need to add "Continued..."
to the top of each additional page? Do we think they're not going to turn
the page and that the table having the same headings on both pages is not
going to clue them in to the concept that there was too much stuff to fit on
one page? And if our readers are such clueless bowbs are they really the
target audience we want/need to serve?
Yes, no doubt FrameMaker (and several other tools) will do this sort of
thing but no matter what tool I'm using I'm not going to bother. And no, I'm
not picking on Nancy in particular but on the misguided portion of the
technical writing community that seems to think this sort of thing is worth
spending time trying to accomplish.
</rant>
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
From: Nancy Allison <ma...@verizon.net>
Subject: Another Word guru question
A question about table headings. I know how to get a table heading row to
appear on each page, when a table breaks over multiple pages.
My question is this: does Word have an equivalent to the "Continued"
variable in Framemaker? The one that we use in table titles?
Thanks! You are incredibly helpful and generous, and even though it's Friday
(and I'm catching a cold and feeling a bit loopy), I sincerely mean this.
--Nancy
GeneK
the header rows, and if necessary the caption. But I
seem to recall some regulated documents I made
years ago where the govt approver had a cow if
"continued" wasn't used, so I guess at least one of
my former readers was such a dolt. :)
Gene Kim-Eng
"Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com> wrote...
Gene Kim-Eng
John Posada
document have some tables that span pages.
All continued does is tell a user if a new table is starting or if
the table is continued.
It's not mandatory and I don't ding documents that doesn't use this
convention, it's just nice.
--- Mike Starr <mi...@writestarr.com> wrote:
> <rant>
> Every time this sort of thing comes up I read through
> the messages with slack-jawed wonder... are our readers
> such dolts that they've never encountered a two-page
> table? Why on earth do we need to add "Continued..."
> to the top of each additional page? Do we think they're not
> going to turn
John Posada
Senior Technical Writer
"I think the problem, to be quite honest with you, is that you've never actually known what the question is."
Bonnie Granat
which someone might think the table ends (particularly if it's an even
page), not on the next page.
Bonnie Granat
http://www.GranatEdit.com
Gene Kim-Eng
My personal threshold for this has traditionally been the old PE
exam criteria (four years OTJ gets you out of "in training" status),
but for someone with a bunch of glowing references I would
probably relax that as well. One of the best writers I ever had
was completely OTJ-trained and originally started as an office
admin/manager typing stuff for engineers.
Gene Kim-Eng
Mike Starr
that I've started a new table.
There are a lot of things I could do because they're nice but I tend to
filter my desire to do nice things by the value they add for the vast
majority of my target audience. If I think the vast majority of my target
audience would be served by something... if they'd find it useful... I'll
put it in. If it's just nice or only addresses the one or two users who are
so clueless that I'd revoke their software license then it doesn't go in.
Otherwise I'd end up putting in "Click with the LEFT mouse button..." all
over the place.
Hmmm... maybe a picture of a cute kitten in each table heading. That'd be
nice <grin>.
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Posada" <jpos...@yahoo.com>
To: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>; <tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word guru
question)
Mike Starr
manager of technical writers (something I've successfully avoided lo these
two-score years) I'd approach it the same way. I want to know what a
candidate can do and how well they can do it. I don't care if they've got
certain check marks on their resume.
The Associate Degree I earned didn't teach me nearly as much as actually
being a technical writer for the four years prior to getting it. I got that
job because the manager took a chance on me and gave me a job as a technical
writer just because I had enough of an engineering background (the other
Associate Degree) to understand the company's complex products (laser trim
systems for hybrid microelectronics manufacturing).
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Kim-Eng" <tec...@genek.com>
To: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>; <tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Associate Degree in Technical Communications
> My tech writer job descriptions all say "or equivalent experience."
> My personal threshold for this has traditionally been the old PE
> exam criteria (four years OTJ gets you out of "in training" status),
> but for someone with a bunch of glowing references I would
> probably relax that as well. One of the best writers I ever had
> was completely OTJ-trained and originally started as an office
> admin/manager typing stuff for engineers.
>
> Gene Kim-Eng
>
>
>
Mike Starr
In cases like that, you choke back the bile and produce the document that
conforms to the requirements and the petty power mongers from the Ministry
of Silly Walks and the Department of Redundancy Department who tend to
enforce them.
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Kim-Eng" <tec...@genek.com>
To: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>; <tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word
guruquestion)
> I've never really felt the need to. I usually just repeat the header
> rows, and if necessary the caption. But I
> seem to recall some regulated documents I made years ago where the govt
> approver had a cow if
> "continued" wasn't used, so I guess at least one of
> my former readers was such a dolt. :)
>
> Gene Kim-Eng
>
>
> "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com> wrote...
Ned Bedinger
> <rant>
> Do we think they're not going to turn the page
They might not if they looked the table up in the Table of Tables, as
opposed to encountering it while reading the manual from
cover-to-cover. And won't they be SOL if the note that is supposed to
cue them (that the table is continued) is on the page *following* the
break?
Ned Bedinger
d...@edwordsmith.com
Suzette Leeming
break and just manually enter "Table continued on next page".
Suzette Leeming
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--
Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
Ned Bedinger
and adds/removes a line somewhere before the table break.
John Bartol
table:
1 - pdf
2 - bound book
3 - laser printed (from the pdf) or photocopied (from the bound book)
In formats 1 and 2 one could reasonably assume that the reader could be
clueful enough to look at the previous/next page when confronted with a
table.
In format 3... what if the user is only given *one* of the pages and the
content of the table is such that it is not obvious that there should be
more?
Yes, I use 'Continued'. Not always, but where appropriate -- it all
depends on the document and expected usage.
John
Mike Starr wrote:
> <rant>
> Every time this sort of thing comes up I read through the messages
> with slack-jawed wonder... are our readers such dolts that they've
> never encountered a two-page table? Why on earth do we need to add
> "Continued..." to the top of each additional page? Do we think they're
> not going to turn the page and that the table having the same headings
> on both pages is not going to clue them in to the concept that there
> was too much stuff to fit on one page? And if our readers are such
> clueless bowbs are they really the target audience we want/need to serve?
>
> Yes, no doubt FrameMaker (and several other tools) will do this sort
> of thing but no matter what tool I'm using I'm not going to bother.
> And no, I'm not picking on Nancy in particular but on the misguided
> portion of the technical writing community that seems to think this
> sort of thing is worth spending time trying to accomplish.
> </rant>
>
> Mike
> --
> Mike Starr WriteStarr Information Services
> Technical Writer - Online Help Developer - Website developer
> Graphic Designer - Desktop Publisher - MS Office Expert
> Phone: (262) 694-1028 - Tollfree: (877) 892-1028 - Fax:(262) 697-6334
> Email: mi...@writestarr.com - Web: http://www.writestarr.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nancy Allison <ma...@verizon.net>
> Subject: Another Word guru question
>
> A question about table headings. I know how to get a table heading row
> to appear on each page, when a table breaks over multiple pages.
>
> My question is this: does Word have an equivalent to the "Continued"
> variable in Framemaker? The one that we use in table titles?
>
> Thanks! You are incredibly helpful and generous, and even though it's
> Friday (and I'm catching a cold and feeling a bit loopy), I sincerely
> mean this.
>
> --Nancy
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create HTML or Microsoft Word content and convert to Help file formats
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> Web-based technology, and PDF output.
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Ned Bedinger
course :-)
Mike Starr
it's important enough that people will want to find just that table, I'll
give it a heading so it'll show up in the TOC and I'll add an index entry so
they can find it in the index.
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Bedinger" <d...@edwordsmith.com>
To: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>
Cc: <tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word guru
question)
> Mike Starr wrote:
>> <rant>
>> Do we think they're not going to turn the page
>
Mike Starr
effort.
Mike
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Mike Starr WriteStarr Information Services
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Bedinger" <d...@edwordsmith.com>
To: "Suzette Leeming" <suzette...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>; <tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word guru
question)
Ned Bedinger
writer who needs a lot of hand-holding probably writes a lot of
hand-holding into the manual. It would seem rather arbitrary to some
of us.
On the matter of using "(Continued)", it would not take me more than one
time, where I (or a reader) mis-interpreted a wrapped table, to conclude
that using "(Continued)" is an element of good informational design.
The cost of a mistake resulting from misreading a table might be a
factor I would have to evaluate.
John Posada
> nice but I tend to filter my desire to do nice things
> by the value they add for the vast majority of my target
> audience. If I think the vast majority of my
Well, I happen to appreciate it when something I'm reading uses it,
so I figure I'm not the only one. You can criticize my documents when
you see it in mine, because I do so and will continue to do so.
Mike Starr
majority of our target audience, we'll be adding reams and reams of
exceptions to our documents... they'll end up looking like they were created
by the legal department from hell. Now if that one user could make a LETHAL
mistake, I'll certainly flag the bejeezus out of it but failing to realize
that the manual fell open to the second page of a multi-page table? Nahhh.
Like I said, even if I was using a tool that was capable of adding that
little tidbit to tables I wouldn't bother (unless of course the corporate
overlords/PHBs had mandated it in the corporate style guide). Fortunately
for me, as a lone writer I am the style guide.
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Bedinger" <d...@edwordsmith.com>
To: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>
Cc: "Suzette Leeming" <suzette...@gmail.com>;
<tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word guru
question)
Al Geist
second or succeeding pages of a multi page table, should you then put "No
Longer Continued, or Done" at the end of the table?
Personally, I don't use "Continued" unless the style guide or the person
signing my paycheck says I gotta use it.
Al Geist
Technical Writing, Help, Marketing Collateral, Web Design and Award Winning
Videos
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Mike Starr
continue to avoid 'em like the plague <grin>. If that's the harshest
criticism I get on my documents, I'll be content as a dead dog in the sun
(<preemptive apology> no offense to the dog people, that's just a phrase I
picked up and happen to enjoy trotting out now and again. I'm a dog person
myself and would never wish any harm to our canine family
members</preemptive apology>).
Best regards,
Mike
--
Mike Starr WriteStarr Information Services
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Graphic Designer - Desktop Publisher - MS Office Expert
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Posada" <jpos...@yahoo.com>
To: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>; <tech...@lists.techwr-l.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word guru
question)
Geoff Lane
could have cost one of my readers his life. The data in question gave
torque settings that were a default value unless otherwise specified,
and torque for a critical fastener was on the second page.
On Saturday, February 10, 2007, Mike Starr wrote;
> Why on earth do we need to add "Continued..." to the top of each
> additional page?
We need to add "Continued" to the top of each additional page to show
that it's incomplete. For that, we need to add "continued/.." at the
bottom of a page that is continued, and "../continued" at the top of
the continuation page so that the recipient of either page knows he's
not seeing the whole picture.
> Do we think they're not going to turn the page and that the table
> having the same headings on both pages is not going to clue them in
> to the concept that there was too much stuff to fit on one page?
Unless no harm can come from a reader seeing only one of the pages, we
need to do it because the reader might not have access to both pages.
For example, if one page was printed from a PDF, or even a photocopy
of something only available to our audience in hardcopy. Now I've had
technical data for machinery misinterpreted from one of my manuals
because of this issue - and only by good fortune it wasn't fatal. Ever
since, I've used continuation markers unless the customer demands I
don't and is prepared to put that instruction in writing.
> And if our readers are such clueless bowbs are they really the
> target audience we want/need to serve? ... And no, I'm not picking
> on Nancy in particular but on the misguided portion of the technical
> writing community that seems to think this sort of thing is worth
> spending time trying to accomplish.
We often can't pick our audience and if our tech writers are such
arrogant and myopic bowbs to believe that such devices are never
necessary ...
... and FWIW, I do think that time spent arranging my documents to
avoid possibly fatal misinterpretation is time very well spent.
(rant over)
--
Geoff
Ned Bedinger
but that isn't what makes or breaks the usefulness of noting when a
table continues (or is a continuation). The thing that does it for me
is the more general tendency of readers to be lulled into expecting all
tables to end on the first page when most of the tables are short (fit
on a single page).
IIRC, Microsoft's User Ed manual design uses a different border at the
bottom of a table. This simple design motif may mean you've lost some
freedom of design, but it does away with any need for deciding when it
is necessary to signal that a table continues on the next page. It
strikes me as a form of punctuation, nothing more complicated than that.
--Ned
Mike Starr wrote:
> But if we do things to anticipate the error of one user rather than
> the vast majority of our target audience, we'll be adding reams and
> reams of exceptions to our documents... they'll end up looking like
> they were created by the legal department from hell. Now if that one
> user could make a LETHAL mistake
Mike Starr
like it a lot more than "Continued..." at the top of the second page of a
table. Thanks.
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Bedinger" <d...@edwordsmith.com>
To: "Mike Starr" <mi...@writestarr.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word guru
question)
<snip>
Mike Starr
of my previous posts on the topic, if I thought there was ANY possibility
that serious harm or lethal results could occur, I'd approach these sorts of
things with a lot more caution (and yes, in some circumstances, I might feel
that it was important to include "Continued..." markings on tables).
However, for the vast majority of documentation, I maintain they're a silly
notion.
The target audiences for the documents I've created have almost always been,
at a minimum, generally educated non-specialists. With that level of
education I assume that the reader is astute enough to negotiate the
document that I've carefully crafted whilst taking into consideration what
they might reasonably be expected to know and understand. I respect my
audience too much to treat them like they need to have their hands held and
be led by the nose on every page. If I happen to create a document that
might somehow need to be used by the booted and unhorsed, I'd adjust
accordingly.
However, you bring up a point of how do we accommodate those cases where a
single page of a document is somehow separated from the rest of the
document. I'd suggest that if a single page were printed or photocopied, it
probably wouldn't make much difference if the table in question had a
continuation indicator... the reader probably wouldn't have access to the
rest of the document anyway.
Another concept to consider (and I admit to not being totally sure where I
stand on the issue) is the "Use as directed" approach. Merck or Pfizer or
any number of pharmaceutical companies produce any number of medications
that can have seriously harmful effects or even cause death if not used in
an appropriate manner. They take responsibility for delivering them with
instructions in the original packaging. Once the packaging is opened and the
contents separated from the instructions, their liability ends. My
libertarian inclinations say that at some point, the consumer/user must
accept a minimum level of responsibility... manufacturers can only do so
much to prevent accidents and can only be held accountable for the
documentation AS DELIVERED.
I remember a number of years ago, a guy decided that it would be so much
simpler to use his lawn mower to trim his hedge. He lifted it up and started
trimming his hedge, somehow lost control of it and now is fully qualified
for a position as harem guard. Was this a failure of the documentation or
just another example of life in the shallow end of the gene pool? I'd
suggest the latter.
Mike
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----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Lane <ge...@gjctech.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word
> guru question)
>
Kathleen MacDowell
regardless of the length:
Currently I deal with electronics, which can have specifications that run on
at length. Preferring tables one page at the most, I ask the interested
parties to tell me which specs are necesssary. Usually I end up with a table
at most one page.
In the same vein, if faced with a longer table, I try to determine if there
was some reasonable way to break it into two or more tables, meaning is
there some organizing principle that could be used for two tables instead of
one. I'm fortunate to be able to end a page early, so it would work out
fine.
Just a suggestion.
Kathleen
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> --
> Kathleen MacDowell
> www.writefortheuser.com
Al Geist
> Please excuse the rant, but this topic is related to an incident that
> could have cost one of my readers his life. The data in question gave
> torque settings that were a default value unless otherwise specified,
> and torque for a critical fastener was on the second page.
>
Continued would not have helped this person. When I worked around extremely
high voltages (both as a tech and as an application engineer), it was
imperative that I read the entire procedure, including tables, to understand
what needs to be done and the values to target. Had I not followed the
procedure, there was the potential that I could have been fried. When I
rebuilt engines for my old Landcruiser and other vehicles, if I did not
tighten the head bolts to the specified torque, the engine could have
conceivable blown up in my face. I used tech books with tables for both
situations. I can't remember if any of the multiple page tables had
"continued" in them, because I had enough common sense to look through the
entire table for the material I needed.
The problem was not the table, but the lack of a warning before the table
indicating possible lethal conditions. There is no guarantee that the
reader in question would have continued reading with or without the
"continue."
Al
Geoff Lane
> However, you bring up a point of how do we accommodate those cases where a
> single page of a document is somehow separated from the rest of the
> document. I'd suggest that if a single page were printed or photocopied, it
> probably wouldn't make much difference if the table in question had a
> continuation indicator... the reader probably wouldn't have access to the
> rest of the document anyway.
---
If the reader only has one of the pages, and continuation markers are
used, the reader at least knows that he doesn't have all the
information. In the case I cited, he would have known that there were
further exceptions to the general. He'd know that he couldn't be sure
of the torque setting for any fastener for which he didn't have an
explicit value until he'd had sight of the continuation page.
In the case I cited, the engineer didn't want to get the manual dirty,
and so was in the habit of photocopying the pages he needed for the
task in hand and leaving the almost pristine original back at the
office. He got rocks for the incident - but I learned a lot as well
and try to guard against a similar thing happening again. (The crazy
thing is that we both worked for the same company and I provided
replacement copies of the company's manuals "on demand".)
--
Geoff
Char James-Tanny
> used, the reader at least knows that he doesn't have all the
> information. In the case I cited, he would have known that there were
> further exceptions to the general. He'd know that he couldn't be sure
> of the torque setting for any fastener for which he didn't have an
> explicit value until he'd had sight of the continuation page.
I agree that the reader knows that he doesn't have all the
information, but would he really know exactly what information he
didn't have? Was there something in the first part of the table that
indicated that the following page included more exceptions or that he
needed more information to verify the torque settings?
> In the case I cited, the engineer didn't want to get the manual dirty,
> and so was in the habit of photocopying the pages he needed for the
> task in hand and leaving the almost pristine original back at the
> office. He got rocks for the incident - but I learned a lot as well
> and try to guard against a similar thing happening again. (The crazy
> thing is that we both worked for the same company and I provided
> replacement copies of the company's manuals "on demand".)
I see this as being two issues:
- the engineer didn't look at the next page to see if the table was continued
- the table didn't include warnings or other indicators stating that
really important information was at the bottom (which ended up on the
next page)
The second doesn't mean that "continued" is the only solution.
Numerous solutions could resolve the problem:
- add a note at the top of the table that tells folks to read the
entire procedure, which might be continued on the next page
- make sure the table prints on one page, not split across two. For
example, add a page break before it. (Yes, one page will have more
white space than folks would like. But that forces a decision between
less white space or more danger.)
- put an asterisk next to the torque values that have a warning (or
add some other kind of indicator) so that folks look for the rest of
the information.
- add "continued on next page". (This one seems to require the most
maintenance, though.)
There is no "one size fits all" solution here.
Char James-Tanny ~ JTF Associates, Inc. ~ http://www.helpstuff.com
----------------------------------------------------------
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Ned Bedinger
Out), they use the terminal bar, and now also use the Continued note
where the table breaks, AND where it resumes. I guess this makes up for
their use of the repeating header row, which makes no visual distinction
between the beginning of the table, and the place where it resumes.
I think there was a time when MS UE added a distinctive bar at the
beginning of the table--it was some fiddly thing like a tiny paragraph
mark, formatted with a top border--but again, I have to qualify this as
my memory. I haven't worked with MS User Ed design since the early
1990s, and it is entirely possible that I've repressed the real memory
of how that trying bunch of styles and autotext bits was supposed to work.
Good luck,
Ned Bedinger
d...@edwordsmith.com
Gordon McLean
"Know your audience".
Well, that's really where this all ends up, isn't it. If the audience for
your information may not have access to every page, or may only have print
outs ... Or if it's not going to cost a life if they get it wrong then...
Horses for courses I say.
Gordon
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Geoff Lane
> I see this as being two issues:
> - the engineer didn't look at the next page to see if the table was continued
We don't know this. It was well over a decade ago, so only the "big
picture" remains in my memory. However, the engineer might have
skimmed the manual and decided he only needed page 1, or he might have
photocopied both pages but only referred to the first on site. BTW,
the table didn't continue - the information did. I don't like tables
that span more than one page, and try to structure the information
into logical subsections, with one, smaller table for each.
> - the table didn't include warnings or other indicators stating that
> really important information was at the bottom (which ended up on the
> next page)
> The second doesn't mean that "continued" is the only solution.
> Numerous solutions could resolve the problem:
> - add a note at the top of the table that tells folks to read the
> entire procedure, which might be continued on the next page
The procedure wasn't in question. Several procedures could make use of
the data, and so the data was in a section of its own and each
procedure contained appropriate cross-references.
> - make sure the table prints on one page, not split across two. For
> example, add a page break before it. (Yes, one page will have more
> white space than folks would like. But that forces a decision between
> less white space or more danger.)
Ironically, and IIRC, this was one of the factors that led to the
misunderstanding. The data was organised into sections with one
section ending before the end of the page and I edited the copy to
insert a page break before the next table. IIRC, the engineer took the
white space to indicate the end of the data.
Now I'm a great fan of using copious amounts of white space to
organize content and to indicate document structure, but that can give
rise to issues as well as overcome them.
> - put an asterisk next to the torque values that have a warning (or
> add some other kind of indicator) so that folks look for the rest of
> the information.
I'm at a loss to see how the reader would see that asterisk, which
would be on a page he doesn't have.
> - add "continued on next page". (This one seems to require the most
> maintenance, though.)
As I said in earlier posts, if you need to say "continued from
previous page" at the top of the second page, you also need to say
"continued on next page" at the bottom of the first.
> There is no "one size fits all" solution here.
Agreed. However, that doesn't mean that use of continuation markers is
never appropriate (which is what the OP's initial rant suggested).
There are cases where they provide the least chance of
misunderstanding and the greatest chance of avoiding an expensive
and/or potentially fatal mistake.
JMHO,
--
Geoff
Dan Goldstein
"DANGER: The following section consists of 4 pages of important
instructions. You must read and understand all 4 pages before you begin
rebuilding the engine. If you rebuild the engine without first reading
and understanding all 4 pages, you could be seriously injured or
killed."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Al Geist
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 8:50 AM
> To: tech...@lists.techwr-l.com
> Subject: RE: Rant continued from previous page (was Re:
> Another Wordguruquestion)
>
> ... The problem was not the table, but the lack of a
> warning before the table indicating possible lethal
> conditions. There is no guarantee that the reader in
> question would have continued reading with or without
> the "continue."
>
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Poshedly, Ken
This one sentence on user responsibility (quoted way below) reminds me
of my days as tech writer for the now defunct Quadram Corp of Norcross,
GA, back in the mid-1980s (it really doesn't _seem_ so long ago <sigh>).
The firm manufactured personal computer peripherals for PC's, XT's and
AT's (hey kids, remember all of those? Real screamers at 4 MHz). Among
other things, my user guides included all the info on how to install and
set up memory expansion cards or multifunction cards to reach the
maximum attainable RAM (640 Kb in those days). I included info on
determining the Starting Memory Address as well as how to set the DIP
switches.
But the BIGGEST pain was the marketing guy I was assigned to who wanted
me to include SPECIFIC info on how to remove the computer cover, no
matter which brand you had. From what I recall, different PC companies
had slightly different cover-removal procedures, and each was already
covered in THEIR OWN manuals. I told my marketing so-called boss that it
was sufficient to simply direct the user to remove the computer case
cover (per the manufacturer's instructions) but he simply refused to
agree. I compromised by generalizing and using the most common methods I
knew about.
True, they all required simply removing slot-head screws and going from
there, but this guy wanted diagrams of where the screws might be, etc.
It's stuff like this that helped me develop a very low opinion of
marketers. I know there are LOTS of good ones out there, but
unfortunately, I've met too many of the other kind.
Quadram was a top-notch company with top-notch people and I LOVED it.
But boy-oh-boy, if they had only reigned in the marketing people. It was
marketing control of stuff they shouldn't be involved with that made
problems for the company.
-- Ken in Atlanta
-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+poshedlyk=polysi...@lists.techwr-l.com
[mailto:techwr-l-bounces+poshedlyk=polysi...@lists.techwr-l.com] On
Behalf Of Mike Starr
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 3:58 AM
To: tech...@lists.techwr-l.com
Subject: Re: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word
guruquestion)
(stuff snipped)
. . . . My libertarian inclinations say that at some point, the
consumer/user must accept a minimum level of responsibility...
manufacturers can only do so much to prevent accidents and can only be
held accountable for the documentation AS DELIVERED.
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Brierley, Sean
table is continued rather than leaving it up to the reader to figure
that out.
Regards.
-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+sean.brierley=ipc...@lists.techwr-l.com
[mailto:techwr-l-bounces+sean.brierley=ipc...@lists.techwr-l.com] On
Behalf Of Mike Starr
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 2:08 PM
To: tech...@lists.techwr-l.com
Subject: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word
guruquestion)
<rant>
Every time this sort of thing comes up I read through the messages with
slack-jawed wonder... are our readers such dolts that they've never
encountered a two-page table? Why on earth do we need to add
"Continued..."
to the top of each additional page? Do we think they're not going to
turn the page and that the table having the same headings on both pages
is not going to clue them in to the concept that there was too much
stuff to fit on one page? And if our readers are such clueless bowbs are
they really the target audience we want/need to serve?
<snip>
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Brierley, Sean
Not really, the one does not require the other.
Of course, instead of using "continued" you could use "no longer
continued" or "done" for tables that don't continue or for the beginning
of the next table, but for some reason I find this approach confusing
and illogical. Besides, I prefer to use positive construction in
technical communication, so I'd rather tell the reader when something is
continued, rather than telling them when something is not continued.
HTH.
Sean
-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+sean.brierley=ipc...@lists.techwr-l.com
[mailto:techwr-l-bounces+sean.brierley=ipc...@lists.techwr-l.com] On
Behalf Of Al Geist
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:28 PM
To: tech...@lists.techwr-l.com
Subject: RE: Rant continued from previous page (was Re: Another Word
guruquestion)
If you need to put "Continued" in the header row (or Table Caption) of
the second or succeeding pages of a multi page table, should you then
put "No Longer Continued, or Done" at the end of the table?
Kevin McLauchlan
> Ironically, and IIRC, this was one of the factors that led to the
> misunderstanding. The data was organised into sections with one
> section ending before the end of the page and I edited the copy to
> insert a page break before the next table. IIRC, the engineer took the
> white space to indicate the end of the data.
>
> Now I'm a great fan of using copious amounts of white space to
> organize content and to indicate document structure, but that can give
> rise to issues as well as overcome them.
Borrow a leaf from Ron Popeil....
After every table, a "footer" or note that says:
"But wait! There's MORE!"
Kevin
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Kevin McLauchlan
... about the use of "Continued" when a table extends more than one page...
> Well, I happen to appreciate it when something I'm reading uses it,
> so I figure I'm not the only one. You can criticize my documents when
> you see it in mine, because I do so and will continue to do so.
So then, the question comes back to:
How do YOU do it... in Word?
Kevin
(Don't bother re-answering, you you already did - I just rejoined the list,
so I might've missed that.)
Combs, Richard
> But if we do things to anticipate the error of one user
> rather than the vast majority of our target audience, we'll
> be adding reams and reams of exceptions to our documents...
> they'll end up looking like they were created by the legal
> department from hell.
Quite a long time ago, Mark Baker posted a statement that I christened
"Baker's Paradox" and posted on my cube wall:
"Any procedure that anticipates every possible misunderstanding will be
incomprehensible to all users."
Richard
------
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
------
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
------
Combs, Richard
> If the reader only has one of the pages, and continuation
> markers are used, the reader at least knows that he doesn't
> have all the information. In the case I cited, he would have
> known that there were further exceptions to the general. He'd
> know that he couldn't be sure of the torque setting for any
Sorry, but I think the problem wasn't lack of a continuation marker, it
was improper presentation of the information.
If there is a default value, but with exceptions, present the exceptions
first. Present the "All others" entry last.
The presentation you describe was backwards, essentially saying, "Use
value X unless you're _later_ told not to." That's akin to the
unfortunate type of procedure step that says something like, "Turn on
the power, but not until after ..."
Geoff Lane
> Sorry, but I think the problem wasn't lack of a continuation marker, it
> was improper presentation of the information.
> If there is a default value, but with exceptions, present the exceptions
> first. Present the "All others" entry last.
Sorry, Richard, all that your suggestion would do is to relocate the
trap, not remove it. Had you written that manual, an engineer might
well have had the second page, seen the text, "all fasteners to be
tightened to xx Nm unless otherwise specified above" and mis-torqued a
fastener the setting for which was given on the first page.
--
Geoff
Dori Green
the bottom of a multi-page table, as well as "(continued)" at the end of the
title on the next page, makes good usability sense. I'm going to add this
to my style guide.
On this job, for this audience (GED factory workers). Mileage will vary on
other jobs.
Dori Green